Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread!

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

The utility just generates the faces (the page is a ootp page). But the face utility really is a great tool.

Will FaceGen work on Macs?

[MizzouRah]

I don't think it will work on a MAC pc, but there is a huge thread on it over at the ootp forums in the mods section.

Bucc,

It's just the faces with the uniforms... yes it does the team uniforms as well. Also, if you run it after say the trading deadline, the faces will stay the same for the player, but the uniform will reflect that of the new team they have been traded to. Pretty cool!

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Will FaceGen work on Macs?

[Marc Duffy]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I don't think it will work on a MAC pc, but there is a huge thread on it over at the ootp forums in the mods section.

Bucc,

It's just the faces with the uniforms... yes it does the team uniforms as well. Also, if you run it after say the trading deadline, the faces will stay the same for the player, but the uniform will reflect that of the new team they have been traded to. Pretty cool!

It's a fantastic community addition that's for sure!

[Pumpy Tudors]

I was thisclose to scraping up money to order this game, but the negative budget thing soured me on it. If it were something like Baseball Mogul where there are only 30 teams to worry about, that's one thing. With the concept of having literally dozens of leagues, though, things could get awfully screwy, and I might not even know about it until it could end up biting me in the ass at some point down the line.

Maybe a price drop would do it for me, but I guess we'll see when that happens.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I was thisclose to scraping up money to order this game, but the negative budget thing soured me on it. If it were something like Baseball Mogul where there are only 30 teams to worry about, that's one thing. With the concept of having literally dozens of leagues, though, things could get awfully screwy, and I might not even know about it until it could end up biting me in the ass at some point down the line.

Maybe a price drop would do it for me, but I guess we'll see when that happens.

I wish lighthousekeeper would post at ootp about the negative budget bug.

I am not going to cross post at ootp anymore. I only did it originally to get the attention of this bug to the ootp community that does't come here.

But as of Now Markus thinks there is no bug to it because Markus closed the thread I posted at ootp about it. And Markus has not responded back to lighthousekeeper follow up post here about it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

I wish lighthousekeeper would post at ootp about the negative budget bug.

I am not going to cross post at ootp anymore. I only did it originally to get the attention of this bug to the ootp community that does't come here.

But as of Now Markus thinks there is no bug to it because Markus closed the thread I posted at ootp about it. And Markus has not responded back to lighthousekeeper follow up post here about it.

If Markus closed the thread at OOTP about this exact bug, then there's no need for lighthousekeeper to post over there. Markus knows about it, and that's all there is to it.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Maybe a price drop would do it for me, but I guess we'll see when that happens.

Yeah, I suppose I'll break down and buy it when it hits 20.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If Markus closed the thread at OOTP about this exact bug, then there's no need for lighthousekeeper to post over there. Markus knows about it, and that's all there is to it.

If I'm the only one seeing negative budgets, then I don't consider it a bug so much as an isolated incident. If other people are seeing negative budgets, then it'll get posted eventually by others.


As a followup to my previous problems, I restarted my universe and set a salary cap on the Canadian league, which has helped to prevent any 47M contracts from being signed. I recommend anyone who wants to establish an inferior foreign league to do the same as a precautionary measure. But even in my restarted universe, I'm seeing several teams with negative budgets, both in the US and Canadian leagues.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

...even in my restarted universe, I'm seeing several teams with negative budgets, both in the US and Canadian leagues.

And this keeps my limited money in my pocket.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I was thisclose to scraping up money to order this game, but the negative budget thing soured me on it. If it were something like Baseball Mogul where there are only 30 teams to worry about, that's one thing. With the concept of having literally dozens of leagues, though, things could get awfully screwy, and I might not even know about it until it could end up biting me in the ass at some point down the line.

Maybe a price drop would do it for me, but I guess we'll see when that happens.

I am using a wonderful MLB type quickstart from the mod section and I'll re-check the financials, but I haven't see any of this in my universe - and this is after simming 10 years to get some history.

Like I said, I'm going to look at every team's financials (I believe revenue sharing is on though in this QS) and I'll report back.

I just took over the Rockies as they have been the worst team in those first 10 years and I'm honestly loving this game. Damn there is SO much data stored in the game it's quite amazing.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If Markus closed the thread at OOTP about this exact bug, then there's no need for lighthousekeeper to post over there. Markus knows about it, and that's all there is to it.

Actually he doesnt think its a bug and close the thread.

He didnt even bother to check and see what lighthousekeeper posted after here.

Thats why I wish people that finds bug wil post over at ootp forum too or its going to get lost in the shuffle here.

[MizzouRah]

I would send an email to Markus.. but that is just me.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I would send an email to Markus.. but that is just me.

Personally, I think if he closed the thread, he is aware of the issue, so I don't see how that would help. It certainly won't help this version since 1.03 was the self-declared final patch.

I really want to get into this game like you are, but with my seeing this problem even in the 6 month demo, I can't justify the cost/value ratio at this time. Like others have said, if I just had to correct 30 teams, I might go for it. But the game wants to have an international game, and I want to experience that since it is obvious a significant amount of development time went into it, and right now it is too hard to monitor and adjust the team's financial situations before this bug potentially bites my league in the ass.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Actually he doesnt think its a bug and close the thread.

He didnt even bother to check and see what lighthousekeeper posted after here.

Thats why I wish people that finds bug wil post over at ootp forum too or its going to get lost in the shuffle here.

If Markus has read a thread about this very issue and closed it, repeating the same issue by posting another thread is redundant. Really, it is. Markus knows, Markus apparently decided not to do anything about it, and Markus closed the thread. There's no reason to post it again, although sending an e-mail to Markus is a great idea.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Personally, I think if he closed the thread, he is aware of the issue, so I don't see how that would help. It certainly won't help this version since 1.03 was the self-declared final patch.

I really want to get into this game like you are, but with my seeing this problem even in the 6 month demo, I can't justify the cost/value ratio at this time. Like others have said, if I just had to correct 30 teams, I might go for it. But the game wants to have an international game, and I want to experience that since it is obvious a significant amount of development time went into it, and right now it is too hard to monitor and adjust the team's financial situations before this bug potentially bites my league in the ass.

If you want the international flavor, I agree wholeheartedly with you. The normal MLB setup seems fine.. but who knows what might pop up when I play it more.

Which is why many have said, get the MLB setup right with the new SI interface and then go from there in later versions. Oh well...

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If Markus has read a thread about this very issue and closed it, repeating the same issue by posting another thread is redundant. Really, it is. Markus knows, Markus apparently decided not to do anything about it, and Markus closed the thread. There's no reason to post it again, although sending an e-mail to Markus is a great idea.

please stop causing rational thoughts.

[JS19]

Ok, here's me deal. Bought the game when it first came out, thought it sucked, then read this thread and everyone pretty much confirmed it. Started reading this thread again and heard with the latest patch, it has gotten better, so I'm gonna give it a try. I am an idiot when it comes to computers, so I was hoping someone here can help me out. I went to that Mod Squad thing over at the OOTP forum and d/l the Rolen17OpeningDay.lg roster set. Where do I go about unzipping this to? As of right now I went to the Sports Interactive folder, then the OOTP 2006 folder and unzipped it there, but when I open the game there's nothing. Like I said, hopefully someone here can help me out here and it would be very much appreciated.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JS19

Ok, here's me deal. Bought the game when it first came out, thought it sucked, then read this thread and everyone pretty much confirmed it. Started reading this thread again and heard with the latest patch, it has gotten better, so I'm gonna give it a try. I am an idiot when it comes to computers, so I was hoping someone here can help me out. I went to that Mod Squad thing over at the OOTP forum and d/l the Rolen17OpeningDay.lg roster set. Where do I go about unzipping this to? As of right now I went to the Sports Interactive folder, then the OOTP 2006 folder and unzipped it there, but when I open the game there's nothing. Like I said, hopefully someone here can help me out here and it would be very much appreciated.

After the ootp2006 folder, go to the data, then saved games folder. Make sure whatever the league is named when it unzips, the name of the folder ends in .lg

[JS19]

Thanks Cougar. Ok, sorry for the question if it's already been addressed, but this thread has gotten too long to really look for this. I simmed through about a yr and a half and here are some of the problems I have already noticed:

1. None of the teams have a complete 25 man roster
2. Guys like C.Lee and Soriano were not signed and are still FAs
3. I was able to pick up no name guys in the first Rule 5 draft who are now in contention for the Cy Young award

And, this isn't really a problem, i'm just too dumb to find it, but where can I find every teams transaction. Free Agents they signed, trades they made, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, I believe I have the latest patch installed, so maybe these are problems that are fixed in that and I just did it wrong, which is very likely.

I should add that I am not mentioning this to bring it up as i'm sure it already has. I'm asking if this is how the game is or if there are ways to tweak something or do whatever it is you guys who know how to work these computers to fix these problems.

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JS19

Thanks Cougar. Ok, sorry for the question if it's already been addressed, but this thread has gotten too long to really look for this. I simmed through about a yr and a half and here are some of the problems I have already noticed:

1. None of the teams have a complete 25 man roster
2. Guys like C.Lee and Soriano were not signed and are still FAs
3. I was able to pick up no name guys in the first Rule 5 draft who are now in contention for the Cy Young award

And, this isn't really a problem, i'm just too dumb to find it, but where can I find every teams transaction. Free Agents they signed, trades they made, etc.

Like I mentioned earlier, I believe I have the latest patch installed, so maybe these are problems that are fixed in that and I just did it wrong, which is very likely.

I should add that I am not mentioning this to bring it up as i'm sure it already has. I'm asking if this is how the game is or if there are ways to tweak something or do whatever it is you guys who know how to work these computers to fix these problems.

Sounds like your league has a cash problem. I'm not sure, I haven't used a real roster w/2006. For transactions, look up the league reports. It's on the drop down menu from your "league name" at the main menu for your league. One of the choices is all transactions.

[JS19]

Another couple questions. Son of a bitch, I just forgot one of them, well heres one anyway....how important are your coaches in the development of minor leaguers?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JS19

Another couple questions. Son of a bitch, I just forgot one of them, well heres one anyway....how important are your coaches in the development of minor leaguers?

I turn coaches and scouts off, so I can't answer that one.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JS19

Another couple questions. Son of a bitch, I just forgot one of them, well heres one anyway....how important are your coaches in the development of minor leaguers?

I've never played the game, so I can't answer that one.

[JS19]

Just remembered my other question. How do you go about trying to get a player to learn a new position? Do you just put him in that position and hope for the best, or is there a process to follow?

[hukarez]

Just out of idle curiousity, is anyone still playing this?

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by hukarez

Just out of idle curiousity, is anyone still playing this?

No.

[SunDevil]

Never bought it, so no.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by hukarez

Just out of idle curiousity, is anyone still playing this?

No, another wasted purchase

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by hukarez

Just out of idle curiousity, is anyone still playing this?

Game is terrible. Does some amazing things tracking stats, and does an amazing job of not being enjoyable in any way, shape or form.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

No.

That was fast.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Game is terrible. Does some amazing things tracking stats, and does an amazing job of not being enjoyable in any way, shape or form.

If you made that comment at OOTP Forum you will probably get rip from the fan boys there.

[lynchjm24]

All you need to know. I just went to the OOTP forum and 17 are viewing the OOTP6 forum and 7 are viewing the OOTP2006 forum.

All you need to know SI is that while the reviews on your board are good - it's because the silent majority has moved on. That 17 vs. 7 breakdown is damning. No one posts in the OOTP6 forum, but people still read that forum on a 2:1 basis much of the time. This is not an isolated event.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

If you made that comment at OOTP Forum you will probably get rip from the fan boys there.

I have recently. The direction is going from bad to worse based on what I read over there.

Nonsensical details like split squad spring training games are being discussed? How about an AI that can keep me from winning 120 games, without doing anything other then drafting, signing a few free agents and only accepting trades that are offered to me (since I can't be bothered to spend any time offering).

[cuervo72]

Well, the FOBL is planning on migrating to 2k6 after the current season. So not playing it yet, but might be soon?

[Ramzavail]

I havent played it in a long while, I suspect the next time I rev it up is when the FOBL starts to use it.

[headtrauma]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

All you need to know. I just went to the OOTP forum and 17 are viewing the OOTP6 forum and 7 are viewing the OOTP2006 forum.

All you need to know SI is that while the reviews on your board are good - it's because the silent majority has moved on. That 17 vs. 7 breakdown is damning. No one posts in the OOTP6 forum, but people still read that forum on a 2:1 basis much of the time. This is not an isolated event.

Funny. I was just noticing that recently. Every time I'm on the OOTP boards, it seems significantly more people are checking out the OOTP6 boards, especially the one related to online leagues.

[robster1225]

I guess I'm the"devil's" advocate when it comes to OOTP2006, but I actually enjoy the game. I play it quite a bit, and I'm in a few online leagues that are awesome.
I know there are some issues with it, and it isn't the same game as OOTP 6, but it is still enjoyable for me. It is sad, however, that so many people have put this game aside and given up on it altogether. Hopefully with OOTP2007, SI will win some of you back!

[Swaggs]

I never bought it either. First OOTP I have not purchased since the first version, I believe. And that includes ITP and 6.5.

The Real World Baseball League, which began several years ago with OOTP4 and has migrated through 5, 6, and 6.5, has no plans to move to the new version.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Game is terrible. Does some amazing things tracking stats, and does an amazing job of not being enjoyable in any way, shape or form.

I am, of course, pretty interested why some of you feel that way. What makes it different from OOTP 6 in terms of enjoyable gameplay? I just fired up OOTP 6, and I don't find it as half as enjoyable as version 1.0.3 of OOTP 2006.

We are working hard on OOTP 2007, and we are making very good progress. This time we will have all the features in place months before release time, so that there is enough time to test & refine the game. Here's a progress update I posted a couple of weeks back: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=133153

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

All you need to know. I just went to the OOTP forum and 17 are viewing the OOTP6 forum and 7 are viewing the OOTP2006 forum.

All you need to know SI is that while the reviews on your board are good - it's because the silent majority has moved on. That 17 vs. 7 breakdown is damning. No one posts in the OOTP6 forum, but people still read that forum on a 2:1 basis much of the time. This is not an isolated event.

That is a glitch in the forum software. Or how could you explain why, while I am typing this, 51 people are browsing the OOTP 5 forums. 1 Member (me) and 50 guests

Edit: Ben just informed me that these 'guests' are spiders (spambots), which seem to be a known problem with vBulletin.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That is a glitch in the forum software. Or how could you explain why, while I am typing this, 51 people are browsing the OOTP 5 forums. 1 Member (me) and 50 guests

I actually just noticed that myself.

Let me try again, the vast number of on-line leagues seem to have stayed with OOTP6. .

To answer your question about what is not fun - and I'll try to fire it up to give a better answer at some point:

A. The scouting system is horrible - and is like work
B. House rules are nearly impossible to implement since the trading interface and system sucks so bad. (I know OOTP6 wasn't realistic according to some, but it was fun and allowed me to keep my payroll below a certain amount by being able to make trades).
C. The minor league system was ruined - having to sign a bunch of minor league free agents every year to keep the rotation fully stocked in AA is a royal pain in the arse.
D. The AI around roster building/waivers is so bad it's painful. It's actually harder to win in OOTP6 single player then it is in OOTP2006 - which is saying something.
E. The ease of 'doing business' was reduced. Your old transactions screen in OOTP6 was one of the best screens in text sim history. Clicking into players and extra menus to demote, promote, DL, DFA gets old fast.
F. Player development makes no sense to me. While prior versions had some things that didn't make sense - it still seemed to work - this version I can't say that about.
G. There are so many different variables for development, stat levels, etc that it has been impossible for me to get anything close to what I want - either pitchers all become useless by 31, or they all pitch to 40. Prospects are either ready at 19 or never become ready. Too many moving parts to nail anything down. It doesn't seem to play well at the default levels.
H. The almanac pages are horribly designed. Having all the players major and minor league stats combined on those pages makes them useless. It's just a jumble of teams and levels and it's hard to make heads or tails out of any of it.
I. The fact that the AI doesn't 'find' players in other countries makes that 'feature' useless.

I know that you have to add features to sell a new version, but the AI and fixing old bugs (like the sign, release, resign problem from the last few versions) would improve the game immensly over things like split squad spring training game. I truly believe that there is a very vocal minority on your board that is pushing 'realism' at all costs. I don't know why anyone would want a more realistic 'non-roster invitee' process before the AI can handle putting together a 25 man roster without waiving good prospects. It's just another way for the human player to take advantage.

I would quit my online league in a heartbeat if it ever went to OOTP2006 - I have no desire to set lineups and have 24 guys on my A ball team the way I have to in the new version. Some of the stuff that you took out of the game was mind-boggling. The % to adjust the AI evaluation was a great feature - it allowed the user to balance the game easily to our own desire, because it's clear that allowing the AI to only use the ratings is a disaster.

There are some good things, I like the in-game webcast and the Almanac has potential (it would be a lot better if it looked a lot more like baseball-reference.com, and a lot less like it does now), but overall I have zero desire to play the game at all.

There is no way I'm buying 2007 until I hear from people I trust that the game has improved. If it's just the same game it is now with a bunch of unnecessary features, I won't even waste the time to download the demo.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

I actually just noticed that myself.

Let me try again, the vast number of on-line leagues seem to have stayed with OOTP6. .

To answer your question about what is not fun - and I'll try to fire it up to give a better answer at some point:

A. The scouting system is horrible - and is like work
B. House rules are nearly impossible to implement since the trading interface and system sucks so bad. (I know OOTP6 wasn't realistic according to some, but it was fun and allowed me to keep my payroll below a certain amount by being able to make trades).
C. The minor league system was ruined - having to sign a bunch of minor league free agents every year to keep the rotation fully stocked in AA is a royal pain in the arse.
D. The AI around roster building/waivers is so bad it's painful. It's actually harder to win in OOTP6 single player then it is in OOTP2006 - which is saying something.
E. The ease of 'doing business' was reduced. Your old transactions screen in OOTP6 was one of the best screens in text sim history. Clicking into players and extra menus to demote, promote, DL, DFA gets old fast.
F. Player development makes no sense to me. While prior versions had some things that didn't make sense - it still seemed to work - this version I can't say that about.
G. There are so many different variables for development, stat levels, etc that it has been impossible for me to get anything close to what I want - either pitchers all become useless by 31, or they all pitch to 40. Prospects are either ready at 19 or never become ready. Too many moving parts to nail anything down. It doesn't seem to play well at the default levels.
H. The almanac pages are horribly designed. Having all the players major and minor league stats combined on those pages makes them useless. It's just a jumble of teams and levels and it's hard to make heads or tails out of any of it.
I. The fact that the AI doesn't 'find' players in other countries makes that 'feature' useless.

I know that you have to add features to sell a new version, but the AI and fixing old bugs (like the sign, release, resign problem from the last few versions) would improve the game immensly over things like split squad spring training game. I truly believe that there is a very vocal minority on your board that is pushing 'realism' at all costs. I don't know why anyone would want a more realistic 'non-roster invitee' process before the AI can handle putting together a 25 man roster without waiving good prospects. It's just another way for the human player to take advantage.

I would quit my online league in a heartbeat if it ever went to OOTP2006 - I have no desire to set lineups and have 24 guys on my A ball team the way I have to in the new version. Some of the stuff that you took out of the game was mind-boggling. The % to adjust the AI evaluation was a great feature - it allowed the user to balance the game easily to our own desire, because it's clear that allowing the AI to only use the ratings is a disaster.

There are some good things, I like the in-game webcast and the Almanac has potential (it would be a lot better if it looked a lot more like baseball-reference.com, and a lot less like it does now), but overall I have zero desire to play the game at all.

There is no way I'm buying 2007 until I hear from people I trust that the game has improved. If it's just the same game it is now with a bunch of unnecessary features, I won't even waste the time to download the demo.

OK, let me comment:
A) Agreed, it could have been better. That being said, the one in OOTP 2007 is way better, more easy to use and more fun.
B) Trading was the one part in OOTP 2006 I personally liked the least. That's why it was completely rewritten and in OOTP 2007 it's better than ever. More details once the new year begins
C) The ability to have ghost players (incomplete minors) returns in OOTP 2007 as an option.
D) Disagree here, I think it did a good job apart from the occasional hickup, which were very very rare in version 1.0.3. Anyway, the AI will be improved in OOTP 2007, the stats % modifiers will return.
E) Since OOTP 6 only had three levels of minors, that's why everything fits on one screen. No way to do that in the new game. However, I do not miss it, I can demote & promote players from anywhere using the right-click menu.
G) This has been fixed in 1.0.3, the development model there is very realistic as proven by several stduies by RonCo etc.
H) I would not call them horribly designed at all. The point you make is valid, but overall the league history is by far the best history system of any text-sim on the market. And IMO it does look pretty similar to baseball reference.
I) Agreed. Will be fixed

OOTP 2006 was a rough start, but a necessary overhaul was made that opens the door for a great future for the game. When you see OOTP 2007 you know what I mean.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OOTP 2006 was a rough start, but a necessary overhaul was made that opens the door for a great future for the game.

I couldn't agree more with this. While I no longer play OOTP2006, I saw enough potential there that I'm excited about the future of the series far more than I would have been with an OOTP 6.925 that so many people seemed to want.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OOTP 2006 was a rough start, but a necessary overhaul was made that opens the door for a great future for the game. When you see OOTP 2007 you know what I mean.

If you really mean that, basically admitting that OOTP 2006 isn't any good and we should trust you for 2007, then are you going to either (1) Issue full refunds for 2006 or (2) give 2007 away for free to people who bought 2006 and are pretty much paying to beta-test?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

D) Disagree here, I think it did a good job apart from the occasional hickup, which were very very rare in version 1.0.3. Anyway, the AI will be improved in OOTP 2007, the stats % modifiers will return.

Wow is all I can say. That's about the first person I've ever heard say the roster building does a good job.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

OOTP 2006 was a rough start, but a necessary overhaul was made that opens the door for a great future for the game. When you see OOTP 2007 you know what I mean.

I have never been more disturbed by the "cool" smiley in my entire life. I'm reasonably sure that Markus didn't mean it this way, but it looks like that smiley might as well have dollar signs for eyes.

I am so cynical.

[JPhillips]

I couldn't care less if OOTP2007 is going to be great. I paid good money for what Markus seems to admit is a crap product. I've bought several of the OOTP versions, but I'm probably done for a while. Unless there's some effort to pay back those of us that paid for a transition product I can't see any reason why we should trust that 2007 will finally be great.

[cuervo72]

Here's a question: is OOTP 2k7 (which I assume will be about the same as OOTP 2k6 where data storage, etc is concerned) going to be keeping the "Convert v6 League" functionality? i.e., will it be possible for folks to skip 2k6 altogether in an upgrade process?

[cougarfreak]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I couldn't care less if OOTP2007 is going to be great. I paid good money for what Markus seems to admit is a crap product. I've bought several of the OOTP versions, but I'm probably done for a while. Unless there's some effort to pay back those of us that paid for a transition product I can't see any reason why we should trust that 2007 will finally be great.

Yeah, nice eh? Well for those of us that paid for the "rough start", are SOL. That's fucking ridiculous. Go back and read all the little bullshit preview blogs they put out, and see if ANY of them mentions the "rough start", or how countless features from V6.5 were getting left out. I had bought back to v4, and I'll keep my money next year until I hear some real reviews from people over here.