World Hockey Championships?

[MikeVic]

I haven't been paying attention to it much yet, but I do see that the United States are 0-2, with losses to Switzerland and Denmark... apparently, a lot of US players declined the offer to play for the team...

this is the one thing that I hate in sports. When a pro athlete rejects to play for their country, no matter what sport. This has happened to this US team, and the US basketball team... and it also kind of happened to Canada, when Roy said he wouldn't play unless he's the guaranteed starter.

Anyone else feel that an athlete should play for their country unless they have a real good reason, like a bad injury?

[MJ4H]

uh. How about the NHL Playoffs?

The World Hockey Championships are a joke because they are help during NHL playoffs. No credibility at all.

[MikeVic]

I mean the players that aren't in the playoffs and have already been eliminated.. not players who are currently in the playoffs :P

[Tekneek]

Chris Chelios agreed to play and then backed out two days later. Guess he looked at the roster and decided he did not want to bother.

[Coder]

Originally posted by MattJones4Heisman
uh. How about the NHL Playoffs?

The World Hockey Championships are a joke because they are help during NHL playoffs. No credibility at all.

They're not a joke to us Europeans who only get to see our "heroes" once a year. Forsberg, Salo, Zetterberg, Sundin. We love em here, but how often do you think we get to see our national idols play hockey? This is our chance, let us have it.

The NHL playoffs last until June.. the NHL training camps are held starting in September. When do you suggest the World Championships should be held?

[Karim]

The US squad has to beat Russia next or they will be relegated from Group A!

[MJ4H]

I mean the results are not credible because the best players are not playing. I have no suggestions for a better time. My only point is that to claim any results over teams like Canada or USA or other teams whose best players are not there are meaningful would be unsubstantiated. I agree it is a good oppurtunity to watch hockey, its just its not as meaningful as it could be were all the best players playing.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by Coder
They're not a joke to us Europeans who only get to see our "heroes" once a year. Forsberg, Salo, Zetterberg, Sundin. We love em here, but how often do you think we get to see our national idols play hockey? This is our chance, let us have it.

The NHL playoffs last until June.. the NHL training camps are held starting in September. When do you suggest the World Championships should be held?

They are a joke for just the reason Karim states above, these games determine olympic pools, and the US should not have to qualify against teams like Japan and the like to get into Olympic play.

I'm assuming that the IHF makes money on these, and that is what it is all about. I don't think you realize it, but the NHL teams pay these guys salaries, if they get hurt, who gets hurt? The equivalent of this is playing the World Cup right in the middle of the soccer seasons of important European league seasons.

[MikeVic]

This is taking place in the playoffs. Not even at the beginning. How many teams are left? 8? The rest of the 20-something teams are done until next September... you're telling me the players on those teams can't play for their country? Canada sure has some great talent playing.... Danny Heatly, Eric Brewer, Sean Burke, Anson Carter, Mike Comrie... some of those players have just gotten off the playoffs....

And if "the US should not have to qualify against teams like Japan and the like to get into Olympic play", then does that mean Sweden, Canada, Russia, Finland, etc etc etc... doesn't have to play either? Where do you draw the line?

There is no other way to determine Olympic pools. If the US can't scrape together a team without NHL players that can beat a team like Switzerland.... then I don't know if they should be in the Olympic Pool.


I just think that you should have pride in playing for your country, and WANT to be picked to play for them. Like with the US basketball team... the players just treated it as whatever, and look what happened. Meanwhile, other countries got their TOP players, and tried their hardest... US doesn't like that, the players should feel a sort of embarassment... so what will they do now? Next championships, they will assemble a killer team, win it all, and then fall back into what happened this past championships... saying that when they feel like it, they can destroy anyone they want.

[Cards4ever]

As I said, the equivalent is playing the World Cup during the middle of European season.

It's called the World Championships, but, yet they play it when the NHL is still playing?

Sorry, my country needs me to play hockey for it, I'm sorry Wild, Canucks, Ducks, etc, etc, you'll just have to carry on without me.

[Travis]

If anything, having it now favors teams like Canada Russia and the US, as percentage wise, we have a lot more players in the NHL. Teams like Germany et al have to cross their fingers and really hope that their NHL calibre players are bounced out of the playoffs early, or they are way more screwed than we are. Sweden and the Czechs aren't far behind us, but as far as having 'backup options', we're in a much better position to field a solid team even with 8 teams still going in the playoffs.

[Cards4ever]

Not when the players are worn down from a long season of playing.

The best time to hold this tournament is during training camp, have the international players practice for a week before then start the games, that way they can play these games while the rest of their team is in camp.

[Tekneek]

It isn't like playing the World Cup in the middle of European season. It might be like having the World Cup somewhere between mid-April and mid-May, but still is not quite right for the analogy you are trying to make.

There are a lot more Americans that were eliminated from the playoffs already, or did not even qualify for the playoffs, that are everyday NHL players that declined to go and play in the World Championships. Do you want a list of them?

I'll just look at the rosters at USA Today's website, and put the US players here that are on the rosters for teams that are not in Round 2 of the playoffs (and not playing for the US team) :

Islanders

17 SHAWN BATES C 6.00 208 lbs. 04/03/1975 Melrose, MA, USA
30 GARTH SNOW G 6.03 208 lbs. 07/28/1969 Wrentham, MA, USA
37 MARK PARRISH RW 5.11 194 lbs. 02/02/1977 Bloomington, MN, USA
39 *RICK DIPIETRO G 5.11 185 lbs. 09/19/1981 Winthrop, MA, USA
55 JASON BLAKE LW 5.10 180 lbs. 09/02/1973 Moorhead, MN, USA

Rangers

2 BRIAN LEETCH D 6.00 185 lbs. 03/03/1968 Corpus Christi, TX, USA
3 TOM POTI D 6.03 209 lbs. 03/22/1977 Worcester, MA, USA
5 DALE PURINTON D 6.02 229 lbs. 10/11/1976 Fort Wayne, IN, USA
8 TED DONATO LW 5.10 186 lbs. 04/28/1969 Boston, MA, USA
30 MIKE DUNHAM G 6.03 200 lbs. 06/01/1972 Johnson City, NY, USA
39 DAN LACOUTURE LW 6.02 219 lbs. 04/18/1977 Hyannis, MA, USA

Penguins

15 BRIAN HOLZINGER C 5.11 186 lbs. 10/10/1972 Parma, OH, USA

Bruins

10 MARTY MCINNIS LW 5.11 184 lbs. 06/02/1970 Hingham, MA, USA
12 BRIAN ROLSTON RW 6.02 205 lbs. 02/21/1973 Flint, MI, USA
18 IAN MORAN D 6.00 212 lbs. 08/24/1972 Cleveland, OH, USA
25 HAL GILL D 6.07 250 lbs. 04/06/1975 Concord, MA, USA
34 BRYAN BERARD D 6.02 218 lbs. 03/05/1977 Woonsocket, RI, USA
70 TIM THOMAS G 5.11 180 lbs. 04/15/1974 Davison, MI, USA

Sabres

8 RORY FITZPATRICK D 6.02 215 lbs. 01/11/1975 Rochester, NY, USA
18 TIM CONNOLLY C 6.01 186 lbs. 05/07/1981 Syracuse, NY, USA

Canadiens

8 *MICHAEL KOMISAREK D 6.04 225 lbs. 01/19/1982 West Islip, NY, USA

Maple Leafs

12 TOM FITZGERALD RW 6.00 190 lbs. 08/28/1968 Billerica, MA, USA

Thrashers

4 CHRIS TAMER D 6.02 205 lbs. 11/17/1970 Dearborn, MI, USA
45 *BENJAMIN SIMON LW 6.00 200 lbs. 06/14/1978 Shaker Heights, OH, USA

Hurricanes

6 BRET HEDICAN D 6.02 205 lbs. 08/10/1970 St-Paul, MN, USA
14 KEVYN ADAMS C 6.02 195 lbs. 10/08/1974 Washington, DC, USA
21 DAVID TANABE D 6.01 200 lbs. 07/19/1980 White Bear Lake, MN, USA
22 SEAN HILL D 6.00 205 lbs. 02/14/1970 Duluth, MN, USA
39 *BRAD DEFAUW LW 6.02 220 lbs. 11/11/1977 Edina, MN, USA

Capitals

2 KEN KLEE D 6.00 214 lbs. 04/24/1971 Indianapolis, IN, USA
11 JEFF HALPERN C 6.00 201 lbs. 05/03/1976 Potomac, MD, USA
14 KIP MILLER C 5.10 188 lbs. 06/11/1969 Lansing, MI, USA
22 STEVE KONOWALCHUK LW 6.01 208 lbs. 11/11/1972 Salt Lake City, UT, USA
25 MIKE GRIER RW 6.01 227 lbs. 01/05/1975 Detroit, MI, USA

Blackhawks

39 *TYLER ARNASON C 5.11 198 lbs. 03/16/1979 Oklahoma City, OK, USA

Blue Jackets

7 SCOTT LACHANCE D 6.02 215 lbs. 10/22/1972 Charlottesville, VA, USA

Red Wings

23 MATHIEU SCHNEIDER D 6.00 191 lbs. 06/12/1969 New York, NY, USA
24 CHRIS CHELIOS D 6.01 190 lbs. 01/25/1962 Chicago, IL, USA
And we know Brett Hull could play for the US if he wanted to.

Predators

4 MARK EATON D 6.02 205 lbs. 05/06/1977 Wilmington, DE, USA

Blues

7 KEITH TKACHUK LW 6.02 227 lbs. 03/28/1972 Melrose, MA, USA
25 SHJON PODEIN LW 6.02 200 lbs. 03/05/1968 Rochester, MN, USA
33 ERIC BOGUNIECKI C 5.08 194 lbs. 05/06/1975 New Haven, CT, USA
35 BRENT JOHNSON G 6.02 199 lbs. 03/12/1977 Farmington, MI, USA
39 DOUG WEIGHT C 5.11 198 lbs. 01/21/1971 Warren, MI, USA

Flames

17 CHRIS CLARK RW 6.00 200 lbs. 03/08/1976 South Windsor, CT, USA
18 CHRIS DRURY C 5.10 185 lbs. 08/20/1976 Trumbull, CT, USA
22 CRAIG CONROY C 6.02 197 lbs. 09/04/1971 Potsdam, NY, USA
24 BLAKE SLOAN RW 5.10 196 lbs. 07/27/1975 Park Ridge, IL, USA
RICK MROZIK D 6.02 214 lbs. 01/02/1975 Duluth, MN, USA

Avalanche

13 DAN HINOTE RW 6.00 195 lbs. 01/30/1977 Leesburg, FL, USA
27 SCOTT PARKER RW 6.05 225 lbs. 01/29/1978 Hanford, CA, USA
44 BATES BATTAGLIA LW 6.02 206 lbs. 12/13/1975 Chicago, IL, USA

Oilers

16 MIKE YORK C 5.10 185 lbs. 01/03/1978 Waterford, MI, USA
26 TODD MARCHANT C 5.10 178 lbs. 08/12/1973 Buffalo, NY, USA
37 BRIAN SWANSON C 5.10 185 lbs. 03/24/1976 Eagle River, AK, USA

Kings

3 AARON MILLER D 6.04 218 lbs. 08/11/1971 Buffalo, NY, USA
27 ERIK RASMUSSEN C 6.02 208 lbs. 03/28/1977 Minneapolis, MN, USA
63 BRAD NORTON D 6.04 235 lbs. 02/13/1975 Cambridge, MA, USA

Coyotes

7 DERON QUINT D 6.02 209 lbs. 03/12/1976 Durham, NH, USA
18 PAUL RANHEIM LW 6.01 210 lbs. 01/25/1966 St. Louis, MO, USA
23 PAUL MARA D 6.04 218 lbs. 09/07/1979 Ridgewood, NJ, USA
33 BRIAN BOUCHER G 6.02 190 lbs. 01/02/1977 Woonsocket, RI, USA


So, don't you think the US would be a little more competitive if a few more of these American born players gave a damn about USA Hockey?

[MikeVic]

Cards, like I said, there are people on the Canadian team that just finished the playoffs... Like Brewer and Comrie. Yes, I bet there are Canadians that declined too, but I just find it weird that the US has such a poorly talented team right now that they'd lose to Denmark and Switzerland. We all know if some of the NHL US players went to play, they'd probably destroy those teams.

[bbor]

The Canadian team that is over there is definatly a B team also.

No Canadian "A" team would have Horcoff...Staois....etc,etc

[Tekneek]

Staios played for the Canadian team in last year's Championships as well. At least he is an NHL regular that gives a damn. The US has a C team over there, maybe even a D team compared to Team Canada.

Everybody on Team Canada saw action in the NHL last season. 10 of their 22 guys played in the playoffs as well. So, I guess that isn't such a valid excuse to skip out after all.

[Cards4ever]

I think the number of guys declining tells you why it should not be played when it is played, the NHL season is long, and the players want a break. Most European teams are filled with guys that do not play on NHL teams, right?

[Tekneek]

What about all the Canadian guys that did go? They all played an NHL season that was just as long, or longer, than many of the Americans who did not go. Face it. The fact is the American hockey players don't care about the national team.

The World Championships are done at the same time every year. That should not be changed simply because some American players don't feel like doing it. If you don't feel like participating in the World Championships, you help get your national team relagated and get to help explain why you didn't want the USA hockey team being in the Olympics. As it was before, they were only able to play in the 2002 Olympics because the Brotens and some scrubs played their hearts out in a qualification tournament. Only after that did the big money dogs decide they would show up.

[Travis]

If I'm not mistaken, Iggy didn't go again this year. Hate to say it, but that's probably a 'money' (read: contract) decision, not a time of year thing, which could be why a lot of players are turning it down, which really sucks (ie: Todd Marchant, usually a turnout for the States, entering UFA, and he doesn't go this year, hmmmmmmm).

On that note, I'm very impressed with the amount of Oiler's that are participating, and baffled as to why a few weren't even asked (Hemsky I think, could be wrong though).

[Travis]

Oh, and dola on this. Horcoff (though I rag on him all the time, just ask Blade), was great at the young guns game this year, and turned in a second half worthy of a lot of praise league wide. As far as Staios, you're talking a former captain (yes, I know it was the Thrashers, but still.) who was our best defenseman this year (ahead of Brewer and miles ahead of Jason Smith), and imho, one of the most under-rated players in the league. Watch some of him at this tourney and you'll see what I mean. Yes, two players which wouldn't make the Canada 'A' team probably, but at least Horcoff probably will in the next 2-3 years.

[MIJB#19]

Maybe American sports people aren't so patriotic afterall?

[Maple Leafs]

The World Championships are typically a watered-down tournament, but that has more to do with veteran players rarely accepting invitations. Traditionally it's been younger guys (Ryan Smith) and B-level veterans (Sean Burke) who go, while the superstars and older players usually stay home. You can understand their reasoning, since the older guys are exhausted and the stars are risking their $10M contracts to play for free.

Missing out on the eight teams left in the playoffs wouldn't be a big issue if everyone else went. Imagine if team Canada sent all of Sakic, Roy, Yzerman, Nolan, Peca, Theodore, Iginla, Pronger, MacInnis, etc.

That said, I can't image what's going on with the US team. Just pathetic.

At the end of the day, the World Championships are a second-tier tournament, but still reasonably fun to watch in between NHL highlights.

[Tekneek]

You know why the Americans don't go? The World Championships are not televised here at all and barely covered by the press. They go to the Olympics because the games are all over the TV and news. They line up fast when they think they are going to get great PR, but can't be bothered when it is for the love of the game and a chance to represent their nation and keep them in the top groups... I would love for the US team to get relegated, and then not be able to make the cut in the qualification tournaments either. So then we will have the next Winter Olympics and the US team is not even admitted for competition. Of course, when that happens the NHL probably won't even reach an agreement to let their players loose for the tournament anymore. Again, that will mean the US will accomplish nothing in it due to their arrogance.

MLS players would gladly leave their MLS clubs for a chance to play with the US team, even if it is during their competitive season. Heck, soccer players from all over the world play in International tournaments that are going on during their club schedules and even continue into their summer breaks. The national team is something that is really important to most soccer players around the world. It's a shame hockey players barely, if at all, share that same enthusiasm.

[MikeVic]

This thread is going how I wanted it to go

Athletes should be honoured to play for their national team. Not reject it because they don't get paid, or are afraid to get injured. I just wish all sports were like soccer, where the national team is the greatest achievement a guy can get.

[Karim]

Originally posted by Cards4ever
Most European teams are filled with guys that do not play on NHL teams, right?

Well, Forsberg and Sundin (amongst others) managed to show up for Sweden.

[Karim]

Originally posted by Travis
If I'm not mistaken, Iggy didn't go again this year. Hate to say it, but that's probably a 'money' (read: contract) decision, not a time of year thing

As the resident Flames fan, I'll stick up for Iggy. He made it clear at the end of the season, he has a groin strain/pull that may require surgery. He's going to give it until the end of May hoping it heals naturally, otherwise he'll go under the knife.

[Karim]

I think something we have to remember is that most domestic soccer leagues only play a little over 40 games, not including friendlies. After the table is set, unless you're in a playoff for promotion or are in the Champions League Final or UEFA Cup Final, you're season is finished. There really is no equivalent in soccer of a 7 week NHL playoffs that happens after a grueling 82 game regular season.

So there is much more time for soccer players than hockey players to play in tournaments for their national team or even their club team. I don't see an alternative other than dramatically shortening the regular season, but we all know this will never happen.

[Coder]

To be honest I think it's a matter of tradition. Europeans have a long tradition of looking at the National Team as their goal. This goes for all sports... Hockey, Soccer, Rugby, you name it.

In the U.S., it's always been about your "club".. your team.. Guys like Mats Sundin and Peter Forsberg grew up watching their heroes play in the National Team, not the National Hockey League..

[Buzzbee]

I'm not a hockey fanatic, but had a few comments to make.

In regard to the comparison of National Hockey teams to National Soccer teams: In Hockey if you are a member of the National team, what is the great payoff? Is it the World Hockey Championships? And why is that important/what is the result? From what I gather the importance is to determine what teams get invited to the Olympics and how they are seeded. In contrast, for soccer what is the payoff if you are a member of the National team? Is it the opportunity to play your way into the Olympics? I don't know, I'm asking. But isn't it also for the opportunity to play in the World Cup?

My point is, as a hockey player the holy grail would be a Stanley Cup, not a gold medal. For soccer the holy grail would be to win the World Cup. Therefore, unless I am mistaken in my assumptions (which is certainly possible) it seems that soccer players have a LOT more incentive to play for the National team.

Next obeservation

Until recently the US didn't send pro players to the Olympics. As a result, there isn't a great history of pro players going to the World Hockey Championships. I am assuming that in the past, most of the players were pulled from the college ranks or from the various "minor" hockey leagues. My guess is that other countries have a more established "network" or infrastructure to pull these players from. Once again, I don't know a lot about Hockey or Soccer so am just throwing thoughts out there.

[Tekneek]

In the past, you were either an amateur (ie, playing in college or some other league where you did not get paid at all), or you took the entire year off from your paid hockey job for the national team. Players have, during those pre-professionals allowed times, actually asked to be loaned to the national team for the entire year so they could play (admittedly, these were probably guys who were going to see little to no significant ice time with the big clubs). Some guys, if unhappy with their team, or contract negotiations, have left their team and played for the national team for a year. That doesn't really happen now, since anybody can play for the national team at any time they want to, as long as the player, club, and national team agree on them being included.

The length of the season is a bogus argument. 100% of those guys would be suiting up, if healthy, for the playoffs if they were still involved. Playing in the Worlds is much less difficult and hard on your body than the schedule you get in the Stanley Cup Playoffs. There is no excuse that will make it ok to stiff the national team.

It will be interesting to see which guys refused to show up for this tournament, but will want to play in the World Cup of Hockey in September.

[Cards4ever]

I disagree with the length of season being a bogus argument.
After a long season, they are banged up and want to rest, let alone spend some time with their familys. September is a much better time to play these games.

[bbor]

All i have to say about thia tourny is that.....uhh...Robert Riechel got 3 assists in one game today.

That matches his career high for a season with the Leafs

[MikeVic]

If elite players like Forsberg, who I think has had some bad injuries, and just come out of the playoffs, can play for Sweden... then why not other "banged up" NHLers?

[Tekneek]

Because Forsberg cares about how the Swedish team rates against the other national teams and is willing to help keep them up near the top.

It is ok for American players to prefer to stay home than participate in national team events, just don't make excuses for them. They pass on it because they do not care. It's the same reason Patrick Roy did not want to play for Canada in the last Olympics. If he wasn't guaranteed to be the star goalie, he didn't care enough to bother. I hope he never gets invited by Gretzky and Lowe ever again, as long as they are in charge.

[3ric]

Congrats to Canada for the win!

[tucker342]

Canada came back? Weren't they down 2-0 at one point?

[Travis]

Won 3-2 in OT. Horcoff scored, set up the second, then AC won it on a goal that took over 5 minutes to be deemed the gold medal winner.

[Alf]

3ric, I watched the Sweden-Finland game and after being down 5-1, I never thought Sweden could ever come back : congrats on that come back !

[3ric]

Actually I switched channels when the score was 1-5. Didn't believe it at first when I read they won...