The Inevitable Thread...

[Glengoyne]

Franklin moves in with the most successful attempt at a thread jack so far.


Also. Just what did Sov get boxed for, if it wasn't for the use of the word fagott/fagotty?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have never noticed HB or flere trolling.

I tried, but failed.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Because it creates more work for the board administrators, wastes more bandwith, and offers nothing of substance to the members of this community who care about it not being a douche-hole.

Seriously, the only people who seem to keep making this an issue are people who have continually caused problems for this community, and/or are married to those who have. There is a difference between political debate (even a heated one) and political trolling. There is a difference between justified anger and racist flame-baiting. Nobody who isn't too young or too dumb to understand the difference is flipping out about this, especially long-time members of this community who have miraculously managed, over the course of more than half a decade, not to disrupt things to the point where worthless threads like this have to be created about them.

So give it a rest, Franklin, and quit trying to remake this community into your version of an internet forum. You have a board of your own for that, as you ceaselessly remind us. If flere were to diagram the board members who oppose this boxing vs. the vast majority of us who quietly approved, you'd see a clear pattern emerge, and it wouldn't reflect well on the troublemakers.

You and others have made your points and the mods have been entirely too patient in responding politely too them. The end of the community is nowhere in sight. Give it -- and especially ancient, vastly justified, and better-left-forgotten history -- a rest, for all of our sakes.

No, I don't think I will. But thanks anyway.

Maybe I should just not give a damn anymore, but at this point, I'd rather keep on making that point until something is done about it.

The real problem is that the mod community here is too proud to take my suggestions seriously. Admitting that I'm right would bruise their egos.

Unbanning people like Suicaine, WrongWay, Jesse, and, yes, Capsicum, wouldn't hurt a damned thing around here. And it would take all of ten minutes to set up a sub-forum for problem threads. Moving a problem thread takes about three seconds. So don't give me this crap about how much trouble it would be, because that a load of garbage. We have at least half a dozen mods here who have demonstrated that they have plenty of time to pay attention to the board.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

yes yes yes

There's about 4-5 individuals whose bannings are loooooooooooong overdue. At least two of them have posted in this thread.

It's not very nice to be talking about me like that.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

The real problem is that the mod community here is too sharp to take my suggestions seriously. Admitting that I'm right would bruise their funny bone.

Fixed

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Quoting from a movie? I didn't see any quote marks or references, unless you're referring to the obscure image (I honestly don't know).

Humor? I didn't see any indication whatsoever that humor was intended or perceived. All it would have taken is a "j/k." We all use the internet every freaking day and he doesn't know how to indicate he's kidding? So instead it's trolling with the intent of stirring up trouble in a thread with someone looking for assistance.

I don't know if he was quoting a movie I have or haven't seen or not. I do know that a lot of people use that particular slang all of the time, in a variety of situations. Those situations include good natured humor.

You saw no indication that he was kidding. Why was it assumed that it was done with a particularly venomous intent? Was there any indication that he wasn't kidding?

This would be a good opportunity to review my comment that over eager mods should look for opportunities to restrain themselves, perhaps question if they are mis interpreting someone's post.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Also. Just what did Sov get boxed for, if it wasn't for the use of the word fagott/fagotty?

It wasn't the word I guess, it was that he was trolling.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Maybe I should just not give a damn anymore, but at this point, I'd rather keep on making that point until something is done about it.

But, that's part of the reason people don't cut you much slack on this, FN. You yourself have already done something about it, by becoming moderator of Sportsdigs. So people do have at least one alternative to FOFC. Why try to make the two clones of each other?

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Unbanning people like Suicaine, WrongWay, Jesse, and, yes, Capsicum, wouldn't hurt a damned thing around here. And it would take all of ten minutes to set up a sub-forum for problem threads. Moving a problem thread takes about three seconds. So don't give me this crap about how much trouble it would be, because that a load of garbage. We have at least half a dozen mods here who have demonstrated that they have plenty of time to pay attention to the board.

Unbanning wouldn't hurt them one bit. But that's because anyone with two neurons left to rub together would say "So long and thanks for all the fish" and this forum would be nothing but trolls trolling each other.

And this pretty much open and shut boxing (Not banning, boxing) proves that any action the Mods take will be yelled about and cried about. Suck it up, Francis. Deal.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I have never noticed HB or flere trolling.

Thanks for taking my back, St. Cronin!

This is just for you. . .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I've probably spoken too much for SkyDog already, but he has yet to show any problems with the boxings

Sorry WM, but I'm not sure what conclusions can/should be drawn from that either. And I'm not saying that to bust your balls specifically, but since you brought it up I think it might as well be addressed too. It may very well be relevant to the larger topic anyway.

My impression, rightly or wrongly, is that he is absent from FOFC more than not at this point. Again, just my impression, that this is related to increased demands IRL that have reduced the amount of time he has to spend here. Or maybe he just tired of it. Or whatever.

But what this potentially raises would be a question of whether it would be better for him to be, in effect, an absentee owner who has handed over day-to-day operations to designees or whether it might be time to try to convince him to more formally hand over ownership to another single party.

Lest there be any confusion about what I'm trying to say, I believe he has every right and an inalienable right to make whatever choice he sees fit ... but that doesn't preclude anyone else from having an opinion about the choices he makes nor from trying to influence him in those choices.

Granted too, that I'm not sure any effort to "try to convince" would be effective (perhaps even counter-productive) but that's sort of cart-before-the-horse to determine until the notion of "would it be better" is considered.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Unbanning wouldn't hurt them one bit. But that's because anyone with two neurons left to rub together would say "So long and thanks for all the fish" and this forum would be nothing but trolls trolling each other.

And this pretty much open and shut boxing (Not banning, boxing) proves that any action the Mods take will be yelled about and cried about. Suck it up, Francis. Deal.

I don't think you're paying very close attention here.

For starters, I've suggested the trolling threads (all of them... including this one) get moved to a sub-forum. General forum readers don't even have to see it.

Second, this is not an "open and shut" boxing. It might be in your opinion, but I am clearly not the only person here to disagree on that point.

Third, there's a difference between "sucking it up" and being a sheep.

You're afraid of the board becoming a haven for trolls, and I'm saying we're in greater danger of it becoming nothing but a haven for anyone who is of like-mind with our little moderator community. SkyDog didn't pick anyone who would argue with him, and that's the biggest weakness in his decision.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Because that is not what racism is. Racism is the belief that one race is superior or another race is inferior to others.

So, if someone would say that he doesn't talk to people with a [insert color] skin, because they have a [insert color] skin, they're no racists? I don't buy that.

[NoMyths]

I will use the word narcissistic twice in this post.

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

The real problem is that the mod community here is too proud to take my suggestions seriously. Admitting that I'm right would bruise their egos.

No, the real problem here is that you don't seem to be able to understand that your opinion does not reflect that of the community at large, and you are seemingly unable to accept it. You continuing to make your point isn't going to cause anything to be done except for more and more of us to get tired of hearing you, until finally you're boxed or banned for being disruptive.

Unbanning people like Suicaine, WrongWay, Jesse, and, yes, Capsicum, wouldn't hurt a damned thing around here.

It would inevitably lead to the same problems that caused them to be banned from the community in the first place. And you can't see that because your personality-type is such that you're predisposed to creating the same kinds of disruptions. But look around -- the community at large is clearly content with having them gone. Again, you are just unable to accept it.

And it would take all of ten minutes to set up a sub-forum for problem threads. Moving a problem thread takes about three seconds. So don't give me this crap about how much trouble it would be, because that a load of garbage.

And banning a problem user avoids 3 seconds multiplied by all of their worthless posts in the future. [/quote]

We have at least half a dozen mods here who have demonstrated that they have plenty of time to pay attention to the board.

You're right -- they pay attention, and when something disruptive enough to cause real problems happens, they take action. Not everyone is going to agree with it. If enough of the community is unhappy, something will be done. But you're so narcissistic that you can't recognize when you're in the vast minority on an issue that doesn't bother 99% of us here. Clearly you haven't accepted your wife's entirely justified banning, and hey, that's on you. Maybe you should have stayed away as you intended to -- I'm sure everyone would have been happier then. But what's not in doubt is that the community is better of when these disruptive elements have been removed, and no amount of your narcissistic posturing is going to change any of that.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

You're right -- they pay attention, and when something disruptive enough to cause real problems happens, they take action. Not everyone is going to agree with it. If enough of the community is unhappy, something will be done. But you're so narcissistic that you can't recognize when you're in the vast minority on an issue that doesn't bother 99% of us here. Clearly you haven't accepted your wife's entirely justified banning, and hey, that's on you. Maybe you should have stayed away as you intended to -- I'm sure everyone would have been happier then. But what's not in doubt is that the community is better of when these disruptive elements have been removed, and no amount of your narcissistic posturing is going to change any of that.

I think there are plenty of people here who would have no problem with the return of the banned members I mentioned. It's just the loudmouth crybabies like you that don't want anyone they can't get along with to play in their sandbox.

Perhaps you should spend a little time checking yourself in that narcissism mirror you're so fond of.

[Desnudo]

In honor of flere, although I'm sure it's not up to his quality standards, I present a Visio diagram of how the follow-up to a boxing is managed. Hopefully this will help any newcomer understand how the system operates.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I'm saying we're in greater danger of it becoming nothing but a haven for anyone who is of like-mind with our little moderator community. SkyDog didn't pick anyone who would argue with him, and that's the biggest weakness in his decision.

*snort*

Y'all just don't understand the pressures bein' a moderate come wit'!

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

So, if someone would say that he doesn't talk to people with a [insert color] skin, because they have a [insert color] skin, they're no racists? I don't buy that.

Yes, that would be discriminating because of a belief that the race is inferior. Note that saying he is discriminating by choosing only non-whites isn't valid because there is no obvious motivation about inferiority, whereas there is in your example.

Edited to add: this is really just a semantic argument that I'm not interested in. The point is that it is not hypocritical at all because running a poll for non-white women is hardly on the same level as saying africans should be caged. They are not even nearly the same, and only a stretch of the definition of racism (a really loose application of it that involves on superiority or inferiority claim) allows it to be called by the same name.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I don't think you're paying very close attention here.

For starters, I've suggested the trolling threads (all of them... including this one) get moved to a sub-forum. General forum readers don't even have to see it.

That would probably cause a situation of more moderation rather than less. Many threads that aren't worth boxing and probably still worth moving to a sub-forum. Would we then have to have threads like this one every time a thread got moved?

Second, this is not an "open and shut" boxing. It might be in your opinion, but I am clearly not the only person here to disagree on that point.

Without witnessing the inner workings of the mods, we will never know if this is an open and shut boxing. Did one mod cause the boxing? Where there 50 people reporting the posts? Hard to say how big a deal it was for the forum as a whole since we only see the views of a vocal few.

You're afraid of the board becoming a haven for trolls, and I'm saying we're in greater danger of it becoming nothing but a haven for anyone who is of like-mind with our little moderator community. SkyDog didn't pick anyone who would argue with him, and that's the biggest weakness in his decision.

It has been said that most of these decisions have not come down to a 7-0 vote, and it has been said that SkyDog has intervened against the mods from time to time. Seems like they all disagree with each other from time to time.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Seems like they all disagree with each other from time to time.

Yeah, Troy's a Broncos fan, for God's sake.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

It's just the loudmouth crybabies like you that don't want anyone they can't get along with to play in their sandbox.

Ironic post #159 in this thread.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by BrianD

It has been said that most of these decisions have not come down to a 7-0 vote, and it has been said that SkyDog has intervened against the mods from time to time. Seems like they all disagree with each other from time to time.

Sure, they make it seem like that. But the mod forum is hidden. They have their own little club for this, and I doubt there's much dissention in the ranks.

Maybe they ought to make it read-only for the rest of us. What do they have to hide?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Maybe I should just not give a damn anymore, but at this point, I'd rather keep on making that point until something is done about it.

Make up your mind.

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble, 2/14/2006

I don't think this board is going to get any more mature in that respect, and that's why I generally stay away - I'm 31 years old, and it was about time for me to grow up; I wasn't going to do it making 100 crass and sophomoric posts a day. Maybe the light bulb finally came on, and it occurred to me that I was not being the sort of role model I wanted my kids to have, even if this is just a stupid little message boar that they'll probably never read.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Ironic post #159 in this thread.

What's ironic about it?

I've never advocated the banning or boxing of anybody.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

I think there are plenty of people here who would have no problem with the return of the banned members I mentioned. It's just the loudmouth crybabies like you that don't want anyone they can't get along with to play in their sandbox.

Perhaps you should spend a little time checking yourself in that narcissism mirror you're so fond of.

Until you decided to bring up the long-dead matter of your wife's banning, I had nothing to say on this matter. If you look at the list of those I've complained about -- HornsManiac, wignasty, Bubba Wheels, your wife -- you'll see a pattern develop. I, and folks who've been around since forever here, have a pretty-healthy habit of being able to get along with the vast majority of folks here with few problems. It's only the disruptive outliers that cause problems. And clearly whatever is wrong in your personality that causes you to be blind to these issues is affecting your perception of this one as well.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

What's ironic about it?

I've never advocated the banning or boxing of anybody.

the bolded part.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Yes, that would be discriminating because of a belief that the race is inferior. Note that saying he is discriminating by choosing only non-whites isn't valid because there is no obvious motivation about inferiority, whereas there is in your example.

FYI - racism is defined both as thinking that one race is superior to another and discrimination or prejudice based on race. You are making a distinction between racism and prejudice based on race, when one is the definition of the other.

[flere-imsaho]

We're totally looking at 10+ pages here. Bubba's Maximum thread is in serious danger....

Oh, and nice diagram, Desnudo. I approve.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Sure, they make it seem like that. But the mod forum is hidden. They have their own little club for this, and I doubt there's much dissention in the ranks.

I just realized you're starting to sound a little HornsManiacesque...

OHMYGOD!!!

Suddenly it all makes sense.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Until you decided to bring up the long-dead matter of your wife's banning, I had nothing to say on this matter. If you look at the list of those I've complained about -- HornsManiac, wignasty, Bubba Wheels, your wife -- you'll see a pattern develop. I, and folks who've been around since forever here, have a pretty-healthy habit of being able to get along with the vast majority of folks here with few problems. It's only the disruptive outliers that cause problems. And clearly whatever is wrong in your personality that causes you to be blind to these issues is affecting your perception of this one as well.

And, again, your are blind to the idea that maybe the problem is yours. The board has an ignore feature for a reason. You can't keep out everyone you don't like, but you can ignore them. I suggest you use it, and stop trying to force out people you're incompatible with.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

How is seperating people based on race, not racism?
How is calling someone else a racist and following it up by doing the exact same thing you accuse the other person of not racist?

I realize these particular polls are fairly innocent, but bottom line I think any form of racism is racism, even if it's ment to promote minorities.

It's called reverse racism and unfortunately I and other caucasians have to deal with it every day. It's the assumption that because you are caucasian that you are automatically guilty of racism.

[Cringer]

Please hold all posting, I am going to go poop and don't want to miss any of the fun.

[albionmoonlight]

As a memeber of the silent majority (and I suppose that by posting this post, I have lost that mantle), I would only point out that those of you wondering if we like the way that SkyDog runs his board (which he, of course, owns) can pay attention to what we do.

We vote with our (virtual) feet. If we like it, we stay. If we don't, we leave. Are people staying? Are people leaving? Are people going to other forums (this sounds like a dig against sportsdigs. It's not. There are lots of places on the internet that are not FOFC)? Those are the questions to ask--instead of assuming that the silent majority must agree with you.

It is the free market in a very pure form.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Samdari

FYI - racism is defined both as thinking that one race is superior to another and discrimination or prejudice based on race. You are making a distinction between racism and prejudice based on race, when one is the definition of the other.

If you will read the rest of that post, you will see that I covered that.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Please hold all posting, I am going to go poop and don't want to miss any of the fun.

Please tell me you're not driving your truck at the moment...

[Ben E Lou]

I would never go into detail about any individual decisions, but the notion that I picked mods who always agree with me (or each other) is utterly laughable.

I've scanned over the points made in this thread, and my overwhelming opinion is that enough is enough. You've had ample opportunity to voice your opinions. I'm closing this thread. I plan to read this entire thread more carefully this evening, so know that your opinions in here will all be duly noted. If you've got more input to give, you can PM me. Starting a new thread to continue to beat this ridiculously dead horse will not be tolerated.

--Ben

[TroyF]

Good lord, are you kidding me? Seriously, WTF is wrong with some people?

The real problem is that the mod community here is too proud to take my suggestions seriously. Admitting that I'm right would bruise their egos.

Yeah, you know, that's why I and the other mods are doing this. It's because we have gigantic egos and are on a power trip. As a group, we've dealt out so many perma bans and so many boxing it's ridiculous, right? Oh, that's right. One permaban for WrongWay and a handful of boxings. Yeah FN, we all talk about how horrific it would be to admit you're right every chance we get. Because, you know, this forum is all about the 8-10 mods + you.

Forget the hundreds of others who visit here on a daily basis. It's about the 1% of us at the top who have power and just love abusing it.

Unbanning people like Suicaine, WrongWay, Jesse, and, yes, Capsicum, wouldn't hurt a damned thing around here.

Yeah, of course. It's not like any of these poor, innocent people had anything to do with what happened to them. They were all just innocent bystanders caught in a helpless position.


And it would take all of ten minutes to set up a sub-forum for problem threads. Moving a problem thread takes about three seconds. So don't give me this crap about how much trouble it would be, because that a load of garbage.

There we go again. It's all about the vocal minority. We need to create a forum that cares for and caters to the handful of people who cause issues. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. We waste the time of the unpaid mods (I know, my mod status is able to feed my ego and power hungry attitude, that's the sole reason I do it, I'll save you the post)

No FN, we don't need to do anything. SD can run this board however he sees fit. This isn't your board so stop pretending it is, ok?

Look, everyone. . . if you dislike a mod decision, that's fine. I'm doing the best I can and I FULLY believe all of the other mods are as well. I'm not going to say I'm above a mistake, but i don't believe one has been made thus far. I'm not sorry if you disagree with that. I'm not sorry if you think I'm an idiot that should be banned for life because I made a decision you disagreed with.

And I'll stand up for any of the mod team. This may be a news flash for some, but none of these guys are bad people. None of them want to rule the world. All of them put up with undeserved criticism, which is part and parcel with what we do. I can't convince the clearly outspoken group who hates the mod team, hates skydog and hates the world.

But I can assure you that none of the mods are doing things for the sake of doing them. We aren't power hungry freaks looking for the world.

[Ben E Lou]

Just so y'all know, I'm quite sure what happened above is that Troy was writing that long post while I closed the thread. When a mod posts in a closed thread, it adds to it.