I think my head is going to explode

[heybrad]

There must be something in the air today.

I'm sitting in my office and a fellow employee comes in after he heard that I am house hunting. He asks what areas I'm looking in, which already annoys me because he's extremely nosy. He then procedes to tell me to watch out for certain areas because of there high Mexican population. Now... my wife is hispanic, which of course makes my kids half-hispanic. I figure I'll let him hang himself, so I listen to him tell me all the problems he feels mexicans create. I stopped him and said... "You realize my wife is Hispanic, right?" He just gave me this stupid look and walked out.

I cant believe someone is stupid enough to just walk into another persons office and start saying stupid stuff like that.

[FBPro]

Peeple R stoopid....

[dacman]

I would have said something like --- "I see, well, its good to know you're a bigot, so I'll be sure to avoid you in the future. Maybe you should do the same."

[Buzzbee]

Hey Brad!

[Chief Rum]

Racism is so stupid.

People just need to get to know people who are different fromn them, and they will realize that stupid and smart people come in all colors. I have seen stupid (insert race name) and smart (race) and friendly (race) and not-so-friendly (race), and a whole range of average (race) in between the extremes. And the ratios are the same for all races.

We're all human, people, subject to the same faults and fortunes of life and peronality that everyone else is, regardless of color.

Blatant racism like heybrad's friend's is just so frustrating, because it's just so stupid. But you can't get rid of it without acquainting such bigots with the people they are stereotyping, and most won't willingly bother to do so.

Chief Rum

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by heybrad ... so I listen to him tell me all the problems he feels mexicans create.

For some reason, I'm curious about something -- were his concerns entirely off-the-wall b.s. or were there valid issues mixed in among them?

You don't have to relive the conversation in gory detail (because I suspect that would irritate greatly you all over again), just wondering if there was anything in the monologue that was, for example, statistically provable?

{edited to fix typo}

[heybrad]

I'll briefly sum up his 2 main points.

1. Dont go to school were there are Mexicans because none of them can speak English.

2. Dont live in an area around Mexicans because their most likely in gangs.

The gist of his points were that where there are a lot of Mexicans, bad things will happen.

[Cards4ever]

Originally posted by heybrad
I'll briefly sum up his 2 main points.

1. Dont go to school were there are Mexicans because none of them can speak English.

2. Dont live in an area around Mexicans because their most likely in gangs.

The gist of his points were that where there are a lot of Mexicans, bad things will happen.

Hmm, doesn't SoCal have a large population of hispanic people all over the place? Wouldn't that be like someone in Minnesota saying, don't move there, there is way too many Swedes!

[Chief Rum]

I wasn't present for the conversation, of course, Jon, but I thnik I can take a stab at what he might have said.

He probably infered that areas with high Hispanic/Latino populations have poor schools, poor land values, poor everything, and high crime. I think that there can perhaps be a statistical inference to some of this, for reasons I'll state in a second.

The problem with heybrad's friend is that he made the very false assumption that the reason for the poor-everything, high-crime is because of the high Mexican population.

The actual reason is because of the socio-economic scale of the areas. heybrad is a noted Lakers fan, and I believe I saw once that he lives in Cypress, which is near Long Beach and northwest Orange County. So I have a very good idea of what this friend might be talking about, since I live int he same area.

In California, and especially in the metropolitan and suburban area around LA, we have a very high rate of immigration (both legal and illegal) and a loingstanding Latino population. As with other immigrations throughout history, there is often a large lag time between a people's arrival in this country and there eventual rise to equivgalent economic status. Right now, the huge waves of immigrants we have seen coming here from Latin America are living in relative poverty or near-poverty. They are still is a better spot than they were in their original countries, for the most part, but compared to the general standard of living here in America, they are poor and working like all of us to improve their standing in society.

History has shown us this will eventually come to pass. The Germans of the 18th century are now economic equals. The Irish or the early 19th century. The Italians and east Europeans of the late 19th century. The Chinese from the mid-19th century. All of these groups and more have achieved equal or near-equal socio-economic status as "original white folk", shall we say. It will happen for the recent immigrants (Hispanics and Vietnamese mostly around here), too, but it takes time.

Low socio-economic status does have direct links to higher crime and poorer areas. It makes sense, really. Less money directly means "poorer", of course, and of course the lack of money will result in more crime to get the money. Race has nothing to do with it, but economics does.

One of the most revealing moments for me in my youth was when I had a talk once with a fellow server from Kansas. At the time, we were both servers in West Covina, a decent area in east-east LA county, but not really one of best economic areas around. I was young and still coming to grips with racism in ym own way, and at the time I was peeved that I kept getting shafted on tips by blacks and Mexcians. I professed at the time in my ignorant way that they "must not know how to tip". I wasn't alone in this either--it was a common belief of just about all of the servers there (including our Hispanic and black ones).

The server from Kansas, though, had been a waitress in some po-dunk town west of KC. She was out in the plains, and blacks and mexicans were few and far between. That's when she saw that the ones giving her the bad tips there were your basic "po white trash". You see, race didn't matter--it was how much money the tippers had that was the primary concern.

Out here in CA, that mostly means Latinos and blakcs are bad tippers. In Kansas, it's poor white farmers and field workers. The common denominator is socio-economic status.

Chief Rum

[Fritz]

fucking scandinavians

[JeeberD]

Originally posted by Fritz
fucking scandinavians

Hey!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by JeeberD
Hey!!!

No, that's Hey Brad

[Jets80]

Hola Brad!

[Buzzbee]

Originally posted by heybrad
I'll briefly sum up his 2 main points.
1. Dont go to school were there are Mexicans because none of them can speak English.

In regard to this point, while absolutely not true, there may be some underlying validity to the statement. I live in an area that is becoming increasingly hispanic. The schools that my daughters go to are probably split 40% black, 30% hispanic, and 30% white. There are many hispanics students who speak better English than some of the "redneck" whites. However, there are a large number that don't speak English very well, if at all. The teachers have to spend more time with these students and as a result the rest of the class is deprived of some of the teachers focus. Also, if you look at test scores the southern part of the county has significantly lower test scores on standardized test and I attribute it to the fact that SOME students are of hispanic origin and haven't learned very much English.


Your co-workers attitude is ABSOLUTELY wrong and I am not supporting his biggotry in any way. I just wanted to expand upon Jon's question.

[JonInMiddleGA]

You've headed right down the road I was thinking about pretty well ....

Originally posted by Chief Rum Low socio-economic status does have direct links to higher crime and poorer areas. It makes sense, really. Less money directly means "poorer", of course, and of course the lack of money will result in more crime to get the money. Race has nothing to do with it, but economics does.

Given the location (which I didn't know off-hand & couldn't see while composing), questioning a move into certain neighborhoods isn't automatically an indicator of racial bias. In some areas, for whatever reasons right or wrong, there are ethnic neighborhoods where you're taking a very real risk on property value/ re-sale value, etc.

Admittedly, there's probably a better chance that the comments weren't made with an eye toward the practical realities of a real-estate investment but rather with bad intent. But I was curious to get a better feel for the amount of each that was involved.

[heybrad]

It wouldnt have a problem if it the discussion was in relation to property values in general or school districts, but the whole conversation had a feel of... "Those damn mexicans..."

[MrBug708]

Chief, I dunno what your talking about. Hispanic people are my ONLY tippers. Of course, I work in a Sizzler

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by Chief Rum
I wasn't present for the conversation, of course, Jon, but I thnik I can take a stab at what he might have said.

Sorry, Chief, JoninMiddleGA and others, but racism is still racism, no matter how well intentioned, or subtle it may be, and this was not at all subtle.

If this guy had walked into Brad's office and said something along the lines of "don't move into areas X & Y, there's a lot of crime/violence/murder/drug problems there." I think Brad wouldn't have had, and I certainly wouldn't have any problems with what he said.

It has been my pleasure in the past 15 years to live in two neighborhoods. Both are about equally ethnically diverse (a mixture of white, black, hispanic). One was in central Phoenix. In the 12 years I lived there, the neighborhood declined dramatically. It was a poor area, a lot of renters, a lot of run down apartments, etc. Not to say that everybody who lived there was that way (most weren't), but there were enough to make the neighborhood very uncomfortable. Needless to say I was glad to leave.

The neighborhood I bought my house in about a year ago is ethnically about the same mix, but these are homeowners, better off economically, middle class folks, neighborly. People look out for each other a little more, the neighborhood is clean, quiet, and safe.

The only real difference between the two is economics. There isn't a reason to bring race up in the kind of conversation this clown had with Brad. It doesn't matter, nearly as much as the economics...and I might point out that Phoenix has much of the same challenge of incorporating recent south of the border immigrants that LA does.

Now he uses Mexicans...ten years ago, he probably would have used a more derogatory word...that's about the only difference between then and now with this guy, trust me.

Stu

[Chief Rum]

Preaching to the choir, WussGawd. My very first post in this thread decries racism as stupid, and neither Jon nor I ever state we think that the guy heybrad contended with was anything other than a blatant racist.

Our discussion merely focused on the seeming connection between minorities and poverty-stricken areas that erroneously gives racists something they think supports their beliefs. My second, longer post goes into clearly how economics is the basis of this seeming connection, and not race at all.

So basically your example fits right into what I was saying.

My intuition of the tone of your response is that you somehow have come to the conclusion that I am supporting this guy heybrad talked to. I urge you to reread my posts in this thread if that is the case, and reconsider.

Chief Rum

[WussGawd]

Originally posted by Chief Rum
My intuition of the tone of your response is that you somehow have come to the conclusion that I am supporting this guy heybrad talked to. I urge you to reread my posts in this thread if that is the case, and reconsider.

Chief Rum

It was not my intention to convey this impression. Sorry if I did. I was actually trying to expand on what you said, not run it down (I know, I did a poor job).

I should clearly have made a finer distinction between what you said and some of the following on posts, which I thought tried to explain (not defend, mind you, but explain) this guy's basically subtlely racist speech.

Stu

[tucker342]

I know dude, stuff like that pisses me off to.

[EagleFan]

So heybrad works with mrskippy?