Your Ideal Sim

[vtbub]

You are blessed with unlimited computer knowledge, design your ultimate sim.

Mine would be a baseball sim, DMB accurate, accurate 3d stadiums with the playing options of OOTP. High Heat style graphics. Audio PBP. More replay than career, but able to setup whatever universe you want. Something that tests your ability as a manager and your ability to read your team and make you feel like you are coaching against Joe Torre or Bobby Cox.

[QuikSand]

Mine would probably be a professional football sim. I'd incorporate most of the "front office" stuff more or less like FOF, I'd painstakingly exact the kind of decision-making for players and teams that I want. I think I would add in a vareity of optional "immerion" features along the lines of what we see in Championship Manager (players and media interaction, that sort of stuff). Plus, I'd add in play and gameplan building and onfield graphics and control along the lines of the FB Pro series, probably circa FB Pro 97.

*sigh*

[Subby]

Marry the visuals of Madden with the engine and management of FOF. Add head-to-head playcalling (not button-mashing) and ootp-style multi-player leagues.

Heaven.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Mine would probably be a professional football sim. I'd incorporate most of the "front office" stuff more or less like FOF, I'd painstakingly exact the kind of decision-making for players and teams that I want. I think I would add in a vareity of optional "immerion" features along the lines of what we see in Championship Manager (players and media interaction, that sort of stuff). Plus, I'd add in play and gameplan building and onfield graphics and control along the lines of the FB Pro series, probably circa FB Pro 97.

*sigh*

Me too. Aren't you a computer? Couldn't you just whip that up real quick?

[Fido]

I'd like to see a ITP meats FOF, but with coaches instead of players. You would create a coach with points (like you do for players in ITP) then apply for coaching positions (OLine, DLine, QB, Special Teams, OCoord, Head Coach, GM, etc). Each position woudl have limited control over the team (Head Coaches can draft, and identify free agents but not negotiate contracts. GMs can get players but have no control over playcalling, time management, etc). As your career progresses, you learn more and gain more respect and can change jobs until you get into the role you want.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's an easy question for me --

A comprehensive NASCAR sim that includes the micro-management level of the business and the competition while sticking to macro-level for the technical aspects (i.e., I hire people who know the right inflation rate for the right front tire, not having me set the rate myself).

It'd cover Winston Cup/Nextel level, as well as BGN & CTS, with at least CM-run-in-the-background style of regional series, ARCA, etc.

It would require minimal resources to run, offer full-season replay with real characters, or entirely fictional universes, and or a start-from-year-X and then continue with alternate reality options for play.

[RawIsDan]

Originally posted by Subby
Marry the visuals of Madden with the engine and management of FOF. Add head-to-head playcalling (not button-mashing) and ootp-style multi-player leagues.

Heaven.

Agreed. *sigh* probably will never happen but we can dream.

[Huckleberry]

vtbub -

Yours is mine.

[Honolulu Blue]

Let's see...

1) Baseball, football, or stock car racing. Less interest in other sports.

2) Customizable in every way - skill level, house rules, league size, league norms, GM/coach control, immersion, etc.

3) The ability to surprise and amuse in unexpected places.

4) An AI that's as smart as I am, learns from its mistakes, is willing to experiment, and copies the successful.

5) Financial options that actually mean something.

6) Players who act like players and owners who act like owners.

7) More words and fewer ratings. As I've mentioned before, a one or two paragraph summary of a player's skills, flaws, and traits is more realistic and can be more revealing than the relevant numbers would be.

8) (Football only) An opportunity to interview the players I potentially draft. This would give a further insight into their ratings, but more importantly their personality.

Basically I want a game that can be statistically accurate when I want that, provide a credible alternate universe when I want that, and provide the ultimate in immersion when I want that. I realize it's all but impossible for one game to provide these experiences, so I'll settle for separate games which are excellent (not necessarily perfect) at one or the other.

[Samdari]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue
7) More words and fewer ratings. As I've mentioned before, a one or two paragraph summary of a player's skills, flaws, and traits is more realistic and can be more revealing than the relevant numbers would be.

Are you sure about this statement? From what I understand teams hire scouts and do get numerical evaluations of their skills, both current and future. If the gamer has a number that represents their scout's evaluation, and the "real" ability rating remains hidden, I think reality is well modeled. As long as even the best scout occaissionally borks an important evaluation, the game will remain a challenge.

A text summary is nice, but if that summary is the same for all of five (or ten) different levels, is it really an improvement over a simple star system?

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
That's an easy question for me --

A comprehensive NASCAR sim that includes the micro-management level of the business and the competition while sticking to macro-level for the technical aspects (i.e., I hire people who know the right inflation rate for the right front tire, not having me set the rate myself).

It'd cover Winston Cup/Nextel level, as well as BGN & CTS, with at least CM-run-in-the-background style of regional series, ARCA, etc.

It would require minimal resources to run, offer full-season replay with real characters, or entirely fictional universes, and or a start-from-year-X and then continue with alternate reality options for play.

That would be second, but it could be a computer hog for all I care. I would love to see an option to be "crew chief" with small scale but highly detailed racing graphics.

[GrantDawg]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue


4) An AI that's as smart as I am, learns from its mistakes, is willing to experiment, and copies the successful.

If I were mean I'd say that number 4 could be done with any current pocket calculator. But, that would be mean.

[Buccaneer]

This is a very good question and one that I have been thinking about more recently.

My ideal sim would truly emphasize GM decision making but not any of the coaching details. In other words, the role of the GM is to 1) obtain the best players, 2) keep the best players, 3) keep the owner(s)/fans happy and 4) hire the best coaches, coordinators and scouts. What the coaches, scouts and coordinators do with my players is up to them. I really, really don’t care or want to play a text sim where I have to be a coach. A GM can have input on which players get playing time (esp. if the owner or fans demand to see more of player X) but not much beyond that. I only care about the results of the game and the results of the season. I’ll take stats into consideration when it comes time to negotiate or to judge a player to obtain, or potential ratings from a draftee but nothing more detailed than that – all assuming that I can analysis from ‘experts’.

With that, this would allow me to focus on the many elements of being a GM – which no game so far has included even half of such features (probably CM comes closest). This goes beyond trading, drafting, contract negotiating and free agenting. I would contend with Rule 5 drafts, waiver wires, owner demands, fan and media interests and many other factors in player personnel (onfield and off) and team decisions (in the context of the league and the community). For example, I would want a human-like agent to deal with in contract negotiations (which TPF comes closest). I would want much more feedback from fellow GMs on negotiating trades (which both OOTP and FOF come closest). I would have to balance the needs from the owner(s), fans and coaching staff on the type of players or team I must get (which CM comes closest). I want detailed opinions and analysis on draft day (which TPF comes closest) for those players I am considering. I want detailed opinions and analysis from my coaches and scouts, as well as from media pundits, agents, PR folks, players themselves etc. – all to add more layers of decision making. And with the importance of giving control to the coaches, coordinators and scouts, I want complete, robust hiring/negotiating features in obtaining them – much like I do with players.

The ultimate fantasy would be take all of these above and combine that with any period of the sport’s history – like being a Redskins’ GM in the 1970s or the Red Sox GM of the 1960s or the Padres GM of the 1980s or the Chargers GM of the 1990s – with the historical accurate league structures and players.

This goes back to my often made comments about immersion. FOF is about presenting stats, ratings and numbers and have you figure out what they mean. Apart from the trade negotiations, that is why I said it offers almost no immersion for me (and boring to play). OOTP, as said earlier, can let me focus more on being a GM, not because it is a really good GM game (it’s not) but because it’s baseball. CM has some of these elements but it is soccer, ugh. TPF has some revolutionary GM features that I am very excited about (like the draft and contract negotiations) but it still have to make sense top to bottom.

Much like QS, I can sacrifice more realism on the field but in return, I want to play a realistic GM in baseball or football and have to make many of the non-accountant decisions that someone like GM McKay or GM Beane would make. Hope that makes sense and provides context to many of my previous ideas and criticisms.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by GrantDawg I would love to see an option to be "crew chief" with small scale but highly detailed racing graphics.

Hey, go make your own game

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally posted by Samdari
Are you sure about this statement? From what I understand teams hire scouts and do get numerical evaluations of their skills, both current and future. If the gamer has a number that represents their scout's evaluation, and the "real" ability rating remains hidden, I think reality is well modeled. As long as even the best scout occaissionally borks an important evaluation, the game will remain a challenge.

A text summary is nice, but if that summary is the same for all of five (or ten) different levels, is it really an improvement over a simple star system?

I'm sure. Words saying that Joe Schmoe "has good hands and a keen ability to get open" means more than having a 60 rating in one category and a 78 rating in the other. But that's just me. Having the ratings is valuable, but I continue to think that FOF's 100-point scale is either too precise or implies a precision that isn't there. And having numberical ratings in some categories (e.g. loyalty or play for winner), is, IMO, silly.

Originally posted by Buccaneer
My ideal sim would truly emphasize GM decision making but not any of the coaching details. In other words, the role of the GM is to 1) obtain the best players, 2) keep the best players, 3) keep the owner(s)/fans happy and 4) hire the best coaches, coordinators and scouts.

Sorry, but I have to nitpick this statement slightly. My perception of the role of the GM in the major sports is that they have two jobs:

1) To win, and
2) To make as much money as possible while doing so.

Different owners stress one over the other in different ways.

[Karim]

I’ll try and not write a novel.

It would have to be a hockey universe simulator including all of the leagues that will be in EHM:FE but having each one playable. This would mean bantam drafts for CHL teams and recruiting for the NCAA. You could start as a coach/GM anywhere in the world and try and work your way up to the NHL.

I’d want a top-down 2D view of the game like CM4 or Wayne Gretsky hockey. FOF2004 type stats for every player and team would be a must as well as detailed record keeping. I’d want a Hall of Fame with customizable criteria. There’s nothing like watching a guy you’ve drafted and develop work his way up the leader boards and potentially be one of the greatest ever.

The emphasis of the game would be on building a winner, managing staff and players, shrewd trades and drafting, plus free agency and contract negotiation. The original PureSim was the only game I can think of where the hiring of your coach/manager was a crucial decision since you couldn’t be “on the field”. While I’d want emphasis on the GM, I wouldn’t want to be completely locked out of setting starting lineups or goalies because I don’t think there is an AI that I can completely trust.

One thing that I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere, would be the opportunity to manage the national team at the Olympics or World Cup, provided you’re coach/GM at an elite level and have demonstrated success. So, if I win the Stanley Cup, maybe Hockey Canada approaches me with the opportunity to pick the 23 players and coaches that will represent the country in the upcoming tournament.

In a few versions, EHM:FE has the potential to be all I want.

[Buccaneer]

From reading all of the related (and dueling) threads, is it assumed that a career (GM) sim is developed 'separately' from a season/game (coaching) sim? My friend Ksyrup argues the point that one comes at the expense of the other, to a certain degree. Folks like me would want to see PBP (for example) scrapped and the resources put into interactions and missing GM/career features. But then you would limit your audience (just as vice versa would, imo). It seems many games do both reasonable well (give or take) but it would not come close to the ideal that anyone would want (given resources and technology). Is this an acceptable tradeoff then?

Can someone find SkyDog's thread from last fall where he talked about the different kinds of hypothetical text sims?

[Buccaneer]

Originally posted by Honolulu Blue
Sorry, but I have to nitpick this statement slightly. My perception of the role of the GM in the major sports is that they have two jobs:

1) To win, and
2) To make as much money as possible while doing so.

Different owners stress one over the other in different ways.

I'm sure you can find examples of all possible permutations. But in a game, I think my 4 points would offer the best playability for a GM sim, even if you are involved in more decisions than reality for one person. In real life, the owner and coaches can have more decision making functions but I would want to simplify and abstract their roles more.

[Pacersfan46]

Since we're doing some dreaming here .....

What about a sports sim that involves more than one sport?

Maybe a sports sim that includes NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL sports, giving you year round business. Not that it's necessary for you to take over a team in each sport, but you could GM the sports you want.

Maybe having it setup in some way so that when you GM more than one team that your time can be in some ways cramped to up the difficulty.

I don't know, but something along these lines would be my "ideal sim", but it would be extremely difficult, more work than anyone would be willing to put in, and would carry a very hefty price tag I'm sure.

[Crapshoot]

Hmm..
I venture that a sim based on the current OOTP models, using sabremetric baselines (such as DIPS), along with a financial engine that valued players based on supply and demand- that would be a nice start.

[sabotai]

QS pretty much nailed it for me.

[Primal]

I'd still love to see a politics sim, "world power", or a great business sim.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally posted by Primal
I'd still love to see a politics sim, "world power", or a great business sim.

I was just going to direct you to www.textsims.com, but it seems that its down .

[Darkiller]

For me it'd be the FOF2 interface & ease of use with the Madden 2003/2004 graphics and the new FOF2004 features (Multiplayer, Draft grades & signing status).

[Young Drachma]

Originally posted by Subby
Marry the visuals of Madden with the engine and management of FOF. Add head-to-head playcalling (not button-mashing) and ootp-style multi-player leagues.

Heaven.

Agreed.

I spent the past few weeks playing Madden and it was so hard for me to go back to playing FOF initially, because I was a sucker for flash. I prefer computer games over console and FOF over Madden for a lot of reasons, obviously.

But yeah.....you hit the nail on the head.