Things a Game Did Right

[SportsDino]

I know there are already a few gaming threads going on, but I've got a theme it would be nice to explore.

In some of your favorite or least favorite games, what mechanics did that particular game implement that were very interesting or well done. So rather than stating a favorite game or least favorite, I want you to try and pick out a particular element of the gameplay (not the plot, art, music, unless you are describing a feature of that content, not just the overall quality of it).

So to show examples:

- Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas:
I love that you can seamlessly travel across a massive three city gameworld, the wide open environment and artwork involved, in itself is a major draw of the game.

- Dragon Age: Origins:
The RPG where effects and status changes seemed to have more of an impact rather than the amount of raw damage you inflict because you bought weapon X. Skills in battles, for all classes, make combat more than just clicking a creature until it is dead.

- Front Office Football:
I love the trading mechanism for future draft picks, and the trade AI seems less stupid than mainstream games. And that player scouting is complex and boom/busts occur which seems more realistic.

I'd rather stay away from things you hate about games, because thats easy!

The more particular the better.

[Chubby]

I don't think I'd put FOF's trading on this list...

[Coffee Warlord]

Sort of abstract, but...

Football Manager - Immersion.

It can be overwhelming, and I still think press conferences are utterly stupid, but my god, even without those, FM still has the most interactive, immersive world of any sports game ever.

[DataKing]

BioShock did a better job of making the NPCs feel like real people than any other game I've played in recent memory. The voice acting was absolutely superb, and it went just beyond the "name NPCs." Even the run-of-the-mill badies you encounter feel like real people who have gone insane. The women with the baby carriages still give me chills.

[SportsDino]

What makes FM immersive though?

For instance, NBA 2k7 has a ton of things like emails or an apartment, and lots of screens, but a good number of them don't add anything that isn't better viewed elsewhere. Same with Madden.

Whereas Head Coach 09 they took the messaging system and basically built the entire GUI around it (and in my opinion is reasonably successful, going through offseason is simplified and you can blow off messages you don't care about and get notifications on agents you do... although it could probably be further improved).

So what features aid the immersion, and maybe which get in the way.

-----

FOF trading compared to equivalent releases of say Madden at the time (2001-2002 was my major FOF days) was a marvel to me. The whole player management system felt a lot more control and I could actually make a trade in the interface, even if it could be gamed once you knew some tricks. But maybe I like the mechanism of how it worked more so than the actual performance (trading seemed so much clunkier in other games).

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

What makes FM immersive though?

While I can't answer this for CW, what does it for me is the fact that, somehow, in FM I always feel like I am coaching/managing real players as opposed to a collection of attributes. Sure, some games have tried to give players "personalities" by making them harder to negotiate contracts with or labelling them as certain type (i.e., NFL headcoach), but I have never played a sports sim in which so many individual players have personalities that actually affect how you run and manage your team.

[albionmoonlight]

FOF: Simple interface. Love that I can just see the numbers and let my imagination provide the bells and whistles.

Tecmo Super Bowl: Perfect balance of "realistic enough to sim football but not so realistic that you get hung up on what it does wrong" I don't know if you could make a game like it today that did not feel too cartoonish.

Super Mario Galaxy: Great use of the Wiimote. At no point did I feel like "they just stuck this in b/c they had the controller." At the same time, the game would not have felt the same with a normal controller.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

What makes FM immersive though?

I don't think any one thing is what makes FM immersive imho, its a combination of things - all of which are equally important imho and contribute a little towards the whole.

(that and the subliminal messages which pop up as you change between screens help )

[gstelmack]

FBCB - best scouting / rating system of any text sim I've ever played, hands down. Exact current 0-100 ratings, letter grades for rough future potential, and based on training / experience may never reach / may exceed those potentials. Potentials prone to large error based on scout skill until the player is recruited, on your roster, and you get a close look. Will everyone else please just steal this and be done with it?

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Super Mario Galaxy: At the same time, the game would not have felt the same with a normal controller.

I think that was the biggest draw of it - it was definitely a pure-Wii Mario game (I suppose Super Paper Mario could be considered that too, but it could have still been a fun game without the waggle aspect) and it benefited from the system.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I don't think any one thing is what makes FM immersive imho, its a combination of things - all of which are equally important imho and contribute a little towards the whole.

(that and the subliminal messages which pop up as you change between screens help )

I knew there was a reason I kept my tinfoil hat on while playing!

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

What makes FM immersive though?

Marc hit it on the head when he said it was a combo of things. It really is.

You play the game, and you just feel like there's a world going on. News, rumors, events, bitchy asshole players who want way more money than my board will allow (I'm *totally* not dealing with that right now, nope not at all) shit just happens, and it adds up to a living world.

[Malificent]

The Witcher did a fantastic job both of:

1) Creating the illusion of choice - even if all your choices didn't matter, it felt like they did

2) Choices that did matter...but not right away - A lot of choices did matter, but you didn't know what effect that they would have until long past the point where you made them, keeping you from doing the "Save and Check consequences" thing that so many RPGs are prone to.

[Surtt]

Mount & Blade

I think the whole horse riding thing was done very well.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Freedom Force - I thought they really captured the whole '60's comic book feel with the characters, dialogue, plots, etc. I also thought they did a great job depicting super hero "fights". The ability to have your stronger heroes actually pick up and throw cars and manholes as weapons or tear down light poles and swing them like baseball bats was too much fun.

Gears of War: The use of cover in a fire fight.

[Karlifornia]

BioShock: Many things. Music....never thought I'd be creeped out by Cole Porter. Voice acting, as mentioned upthread, was phenomenal.

[Raiders Army]

Starcraft: Really balanced the three races well and is a very worthy successor to Warcraft.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

What makes FM immersive though?

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

While I can't answer this for CW, what does it for me is the fact that, somehow, in FM I always feel like I am coaching/managing real players as opposed to a collection of attributes. Sure, some games have tried to give players "personalities" by making them harder to negotiate contracts with or labelling them as certain type (i.e., NFL headcoach), but I have never played a sports sim in which so many individual players have personalities that actually affect how you run and manage your team.

I don't know how many times I've posted something similar to the bold part (I've always said it's like dealing with real people instead of a bag of computer ratings).

And as CW said there is a world going on around you. News from your league, other leagues both in and out of country, rumors, news stories about you. Other managers (hell just about any "person" in the game) can\will have an opinion of you, not randomly based but based on how you manage your club or interact with media and other "persons" in the game, (wow! think about that for a moment). The owner or board actually make a difference in FM. Hell they may decide to sell your best player out from under you or even the team.

The list just goes on and on.

[Vince, Pt. II]

X-Com: UFO Defense - Not only was the gameplay fantastic, but the atmosphere the game created was incredible. The tension when you were opening the door to the UFO on a night mission was incredible! Are there any aliens alive inside? Are they going to blast me as soon as I open the door? What KIND of aliens are they? Oh crap, I have to run across open field with no cover...and it's a Gas Station! That squaddie is toast! Ok, that's the last of them...wait, it's not over? Where's he hiding!

Resident Evil - The original game did the same thing as X-Com...it really put you in the game. It was eerie as hell opening a door to a new room, because you had no idea what was going to come at you. Or if you had enough bullets. They also did a great job of varying things so that it wasn't always just when you opened the door to the next room that something jumped out at you. I will never forget the first time I walked down the hallway just to the right of the main entrance at the beginning of the game...


albion hit the nail on the head with Tecmo Super Bowl.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Surtt

Mount & Blade

I think the whole horse riding thing was done very well.

The combat engine in Mount & Blade is amazing. The battle AI needs a good deal of work however.

[EagleFan]

Uncharted 2 - Some of the best voice acting that I have seen in a game, makes it feel like you are in a movie as nothing seems forced or awkward; Also, they did a great job of making the game world feel seemless as you don't get to a point and wait for a load screen before you can take another step.

WWSM/FM - I'll echo what others have said, immersion. There is no one thing to point to though as it just seems like each small piece does it's part.

FOF - It's simple with no bells and whistles but that lets my imagination fill in the gaps.

FPS BB Pro 96 - I LOVED the soundtrack!!!!! It provided the perfect atmosphere for that game. It also did just enough right that it made me feel like I had a team of players instead of a team of computer animated ratings.

MLB: The Show - It has captured baseball like no other game since High Heat (2000 I believe was the best one, if I am remembering correctly). I am still not sold on the batting interface (or I just suck at it and don't have the patience) but pitching really feels right, like you have to think a pitch or two ahead and have a plan. On the batting side, the CPU piutchers seem to "understand" pitching and will expose your weaknesses.

College Hoops 2Kx - Captures the atmosphere of an actual college game, right down to the ebbs and flows of the momentum

Earl Weaver Baseball - You could make your own ballpark.... your own ballpark!!!!

NHL 10 - Have come as close as I can remmber to recreating actual hockey

[AgustusM]

Head Coach 09 - The NFL draft. I found the scouting process, the draft itself all very enjoyable. I actually go pick by pick for all picks, all 7 rounds every year. Never done that in any of the other NFL sims I have played, which is pretty much all of them.

Currently I am pretty immersed in FM. but a lot of that is how little I understand soccer and all the things that surround it.

OOTP I am a huge OOTP fan and I think the customization options Markus have built in are highly underrated. Still my favorite game of all time.

[SteveMax58]

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

[Young Drachma]

NCAA 10: Conference customization was a nice touch, as was the addition of Teambuilder.

SimCity 4: Largely due to a user community, it's one of the best games ever. But mostly because the game was built treating the player as someone with a brain, rather than a mindless drone. Nearly a decade later and there still isn't a city builder sim that's on par with a game that was made ages ago, despite the leaps in technology since. Just a first-class game through and through, even with the bumps it comes equipped with.

[MrDNA]

I agree with the comments about the Show and Bioshock (although I like the Show's hitting mechanism; it's hard to master for sure).

I wanted to add that the atmosphere of the original Silent Hill scared the living crap out of me. Today I cannot imagine being that scared of a video game.

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

Not a super popular game (I think) but I really enjoyed assembling my team in Gladius and having to decide who to take into a given fight and the general strategic planning of it.

Fun idea for a thread, SportsDino

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Earl Weaver Baseball - Everything

Fixed.

[Big Fo]

Dragon Quest V - This game's story sucked me in like no other, usually I enjoy the battles and character progression parts of RPGs more than the story, plus the feeling of wanting to beat the game like in any other, but in this game I was pissed at the things that had been done to me (playing as the hero) and my family and wanted revenge. To me there was more than just fighting battles and beating the game.

I think part of the extra immersion in FM compared to other sports management sims is due to the nature of soccer where there are leagues in multiple countries, continental competitions, promotion/relegation, and international events like the Gold Cup, Euro Championships, and World Cup. There's just a lot more going on compared to something like the NFL. Even if an NFL sports management sim managed to make the players feel a little more alive like they are in FM it still wouldn't be as immersive for those reasons. One thing that could help would be having a game where the NFL and college football are going on at the same time, being able to watch highlights of college games in the days before the draft or seeing college coaches go to the NFL and vice versa.

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

It was a PS1 game, and probably my favorite game on that system. The stuff you mentioned was great, the game asking me if I liked some version of International Superstar Soccer.

I also like the replies that mentioned Super Mario Galaxy and Tecmo Super Bowl, a few other of my all-time favorites.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

I agree with the comments about the Show and Bioshock (although I like the Show's hitting mechanism; it's hard to master for sure).

I wanted to add that the atmosphere of the original Silent Hill scared the living crap out of me. Today I cannot imagine being that scared of a video game.

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

Not a super popular game (I think) but I really enjoyed assembling my team in Gladius and having to decide who to take into a given fight and the general strategic planning of it.

Fun idea for a thread, SportsDino

I agree with every one of these points. Gladius was one of my favorite games back when it came out.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Gladius was one of my favorite games back when it came out.

Same here.

Final Fantasy Tactics - Engrossing story and a flawless Job system that integrated extremely well with the tactical setup.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

NCAA 10: Conference customization was a nice touch, as was the addition of Teambuilder.

Weren't those back in the game back in like 2002? Wasn't as in-depth but you were able to create schools and mess around with the conferences.

[Marc Vaughan]

The Battle for Wesnoth fantastic game does a lot of stuff perfectly imho:
* User customisable scenario's, including adding new units etc.
* Fantastically simple but effective rule-set making it easy to pick up yet complex to master.
* Units aren't just battle pieces to dispose of, they have names units so they stick in your mind and special characteristics (they can also level up)
* Default scenarios are very well balanced and have strong storylines. History of 'Wesnoth' itself is very enticing and runs through most of the official and unofficial scenarios available.
* Great localisation, especially for a free application (and done more effectively than many 'professional' games imho.
* Its turn based (very few turn based strategy wargames left today so this alone needs mentioning, RTS games aren't my bag and ARENT an improvement over turn based games imho - its like comparing chess to an FPS ..).

[Honolulu Blue]

So many games had so many good ideas. To highlight:

* Pirates! Classic was an intriguing mix of RPG, action, and strategy - one of the few joystick games that I enjoyed playing (it helped that the required moves were mostly simple). It was also the most open-ended game I had played to that point. The start was generally the same in all eras - small boat, small crew - but from there you could go anywhere. I generally like open-endedness in my games.

* Something that's underrated in games and helps to add to my immersion in them is a sense of humor. FOF Classic, TCY, and Inside the Park were the main ones here. When FOF went corporate, it lost most of its humor, though now that Jim is independent again, it's slowly coming back.

* I've mentioned this before, but Omni-Play Basketball was my first introduction to sports career sims. There were some interesting ideas there - like earning points for the team's end-of-season record, using those points on development and/or trades, the pre-game and halftime analysis, and those commercials.

* The text sports career sim really took off in the late 90s with Baseball Mogul, FOF, and OOTP. Each offered their own ideas of how games should be done. Mogul was always quick and reasonably accurate, FOF has the cap and probably the best overall financial model in text sims (for all that says), and OOTP introduced FaceGen and tremendous customizability.

* Imperialism introduced a lot of ideas that I really liked, including:
1) It cut down on most of the micromamagement in 4X games by making building construction and military production centralized.
2) It introduced the concept of being voted the biggest & baddest empire on the planet without actually conquering everyone.
3) Minor nations could be conquered without a single shot being fired, if they liked you enough.
4) The economic model was three-tiered - raw materials, processed goods, and finished goods.
5) The market changed each turn based on actual supply and demand.

* Imperialism II kept most of the good of Imperialism, and moved it to the Age of Discovery - always a magical time for me. Its radical idea was the separation between Old World and New World. New World provinces had many resources that could help you win, but ultimately you had to gain half the Old World provinces, no matter how big or small your New World was.

* Civ Classic was the first game that went from far in the past to the future and made it all work.

[JPhillips]

Civ2 - Modability. This is the first game I remember being modded heavily. I still recall the joy of the fascism mod and feeling like I was playing a whole new game. It was a pain to install, but it opened the door for the Civ mod community.

Fallout3 - Atmosphere. Combat is okay. Acting is okay to poor. Story is average. Atmosphere, though, is so great that it makes the game a must play. I can't recall another game that made me feel more a part of a world that Fallout3.

Europa Universalis - Scope. It's not the game that EU3 is, but it formed the building blocks for all of Paradox's work. The idea of playing any nation during the renaissance from Europe to Asia to Central America was both liberating and overwhelming. It took me forever to figure out how to play, but the sheer volume of gameplay choices keeps me coming back to Paradox products.

Baseball Mogul - Accessibility. How many of us got into text sims at least partially because of the ease of Mogul? It's not the best or the most accurate, but it's still the best way for someone unfamiliar with text management sims to get started. Most will move on to other games eventually, but BBM is the starter home of the genre.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by MrDNA

I just finished Batman: Arkham Asylum and I loved the hand-to-hand combat aspect of it. The moves flowed together seemlessly and felt like a well-coreographed fight in a movie rather than random moves triggered by button mashing.

I totally agree with this. I've only played about 3-4 hours through the game, but I thought the hand-to-hand combat was excellent. Every time I thought I had seen it all, Batman pulled out some other awesomely violent move.

I don't think I've ever played a superhero game that really made you feel as much like that particular hero as this game did. From the stealth, to the detective work, to the combat, all of it, really made me feel what it would like to be Batman.

I also loved the fact that you could totally dominate a fight if you did it the "Batman way" - stealth, speed, power, but if you tried to run in and say do it the "Wolverine" or "Hulk" way, you'd get your ass kicked.

[gstelmack]

Just Cause - My favorite open world game, as it was a mix of cities, jungle terrain, and mountains, plus you could drive/fly all types of vehicles from cars to boats to helicopters to jet aircraft. Also had good tongue-in-cheek humor.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

* I've mentioned this before, but Omni-Play Basketball was my first introduction to sports career sims. There were some interesting ideas there - like earning points for the team's end-of-season record, using those points on development and/or trades, the pre-game and halftime analysis, and those commercials.

Great game! I started with Omni-Play Hockey and then moved on the basketball later. It was really fun to see a team develop over the years. They also kept career and single-game records -- a simple thing now, but no other game did it back then.

The pre-game and half-time commentary from those old games is still better than most of the modern sports games manage.

[Neon_Chaos]

Football Manager

Here's a post I made in 2008 on FM08... and it's still applicable now.

No other game has ever given me enough grief or ridiculous joy as Football Manager.

In League One, as Brighton and Hove, entering my 4t year as manager. We finally finish the construction of our new 22,000 all-seater. The season comes down to the wire. We basically lose a chance to get immediate promotion by losing to the top two teams in heart-breaking matches.

So we head to the playoffs... and we win away against Sheff Wed, 2-1. During the aggregate match, they are up 2-1, until my striker Paul Hayes nailed the game-clinching goal via a magnificent run through the entire pitch, dodging about 3 guys, and faking the keeper out with a beautiful curling shot at the 93rd minute.

Needless to say, I was fist-pumping like a madman, screaming obscenities at the hapless computer manager. Take that, chumsuckers!

The fact that Hayes scored a hat-trick during our 4-0 win against Millwall in the Final, which meant we were getting promoted, was just icing on the cake.

[Abe Sargent]

Morrowind - Virtually perfect at creating it's own unique fantasy world that is wholly fantasy, and yet completely unlike other fantasy worlds.

Heroes of Might and Magic II - Whoever came up with the idea of having opera as a soundtrack for a game should get a platinum star.

Tropico No sim or strategy game has ever exuded as much flavor as Tropico.

[lcjjdnh]

A few more things about FBCB that I don't think have been mentioned:

1.) Even though the options for team strategy were very simple, it was clear that your decisions had an impact on how your team played. I didn't need to watch every game because I knew with just a few 0-10 options and the choice of defenses, I had enough control over my team so that they'd play the way I want. It was apparent these decisions made a real difference in the game.
2.) I felt like the pacing of the game was perfect no matter how you like to play a game. If you like to whip through the seasons, it was easy to do so without losing much control thanks to the feature I mentioned above. In terms of that just one-more-turn pull, the amount of time you needed to spend each month recruiting, setting up line-ups, etc. was enough to feel as though each decision you made was meaningful without being overwhelming. However, if you (like Bucc) prefer to play the game slowly, there was enough detail (unlike, say, Baseball Mogul) to keep you entertained game-by-game. It's very rare a game can appeal to both those types of gamers, I think.

[Jughead Spock]

I had a Wii for a while, and there were a couple that really stood out for their use of the remotes -

No More Heroes - The Wii-mote is made for hack and slash. Primitive, but fun, especially blended with the humor of the game.

Resident Evil 4 - I never want to play another shooter again, unless I have a Wii. Pointing and shooting rocks.

Metroid Prime - see above. Pretty cool other uses as well.



Others, non-Wii -

Baldur's Gate - everything

BioShock - all that mentioned above. Amazing immersion and creepiness.

Halo - like BioShock, the music was huge. First time I'd ever experienced a great soundtrack while playing (on XBox with a good sound system).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Weren't those back in the game back in like 2002? Wasn't as in-depth but you were able to create schools and mess around with the conferences.

I don't believe conference customization has EVER been in the game and I've played it religiously for a while. Create-a-team was around and was taken away, but what they followed with is a reflection of times in terms of its depth and such.

But conference customization is new. You could always be invited into a new conference, but...that's different than being able to fiddle with them from the start.

[Young Drachma]

Agree with all of the comments about Baseball Mogul, it's the text sim gateway drug for sure. FPS Baseball was good for what it was, though it wasn't immersive, but maybe because I was a kid and wasn't able to just take a day and play it if I wanted to.

FOF, too. When I discovered that, I just couldn't believe a game like it even existed.

OOTP made Mogul seem like elementary school to me and it's just gotten better, though solo play doesn't hold me like it used to, it's good to know a game like it exists for all of the customization and options, it's well worth the money.

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by SteveMax58

Metal Gear Solid - When you fight Psycho Mantis and he rattles off things from your memory card (not to mention he forces you to switch to the other controller port)...that was pretty cool. Just a complete mindtrip. Not bad for PS2 (I think it was 2...not positive and too lazy to google it).

Good one! And it was originally for PS1

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Great game! I started with Omni-Play Hockey and then moved on the basketball later. It was really fun to see a team develop over the years. They also kept career and single-game records -- a simple thing now, but no other game did it back then.

The pre-game and half-time commentary from those old games is still better than most of the modern sports games manage.

I'm surprised that none of the modern text sims do this. It was really simple stuff and immersive (and easily skipped). Does Madden or any of the other joystick games do this?

Anyway, a couple more examples of not-quite-classics getting a few things right in my eyes:

Cutthroats - More than one type of food, sophisticated land battles (at least compared to Pirates! Classic)

Tropico 2 - Best background music in a strategy game.

Gold of the Americas - One of the very few games to deal with slavery (glibly, but the game itself was pretty superficial).

[spleen1015]

I think it is obvious that WoW does something right. I am having a hard time figuring out what that is though. I have never played anything this much and I can't tell you what it is that draws me to the game.

[DataKing]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I think it is obvious that WoW does something right. I am having a hard time figuring out what that is though. I have never played anything this much and I can't tell you what it is that draws me to the game.

I played WoW for a while. I've since moved on to other MMOs, but one of the things that I always liked best about WoW was that it did not take itself too seriously. There's plenty of corny references and humorous bits that would regularly bring a smile to my face while I was playing.

[Bad-example]

Majesty was fun for me. I liked the fantasy setting and the limited control aspect. Spent a lot of hours on that one.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

I'm surprised that none of the modern text sims do this. It was really simple stuff and immersive (and easily skipped). Does Madden or any of the other joystick games do this?

Anyway, a couple more examples of not-quite-classics getting a few things right in my eyes:

Cutthroats - More than one type of food, sophisticated land battles (at least compared to Pirates! Classic)

Tropico 2 - Best background music in a strategy game.

Gold of the Americas - One of the very few games to deal with slavery (glibly, but the game itself was pretty superficial).

On a similar note, Europa Universalis does very well with slavery. It's a trade good, just like copper or cotton, and its value goes up or down based on the number of slave provinces there are, how many cotton, sugar, tobacco and coffee provinces there are. As those increase the values of slaves increases, and vice versa.

[PineTar]

No One Lives Forever - absolutely nailed the tongue in cheek 60's spy vibe

Good stuff from NOLF...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4BDoUx33SU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2PxxbJydBU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eNfuKSZNIk

[SportsDino]

All right, i know I still need to contribute, but lot of cool stuff so far.

Another possible diversion, what are some of the best done characters in a game you have played, and of course the important thing, WHY?!

This of course overlaps a bit with plot of course, but I'm hoping the descriptions of the characters might lead to some differences from just a well written story character (and of course probably many similarities, good writing being a bonus in any situation I thinks).

If anyone is wondering, the ulterior motives of this thread:
- Understand what has made some games great not by specific example, but seeing what sort of things in general seem to trigger an interesting response (for instance it seems that INTUITIVENESS ranks very highly, perhaps even more than raw innovation by itself).

- Find some great games I probably missed, I'm a gaming junkie.

- Estimate whether my own hobby project game is living up to the 'done it right' standards i'm soaking in from this thread.