The FOFC Television Draft - CHOOSE THE WINNER

[Schmidty]

The FOFC Television draft is now finished. Now we need YOU, the people of FOFC, to decide the winner. Place a vote for the team that you feel is the best, most interesting, et cetera.

This draft was a bit more complicated, so I'm going to cut and paste the rules that Maple Leafs came up with when he started it:

The teams:
You will draft a "team" of ten, filling three "positions" with picks from three categories.

Each team will consist ten picks, made up of:

Three selections from each of the following categories:
- Drama
- Comedy
- Other

In addition, your ten picks must include three selections from each of the following "positions":
- Shows
- Performers
- Moments

Note that you can mix and match however you see fit. For example, you could choose three drama shows, three comedy performers, and three "other" moments. Alternatively, you could choose one of each possible combination. It's up to you.

That makes nine picks. Your tenth pick is a wildcard, and can be any position/category combo

The original thread can be found here. Please note that the list on the first page is no longer accurate, since Maple Leafs was unable to finish. The correct, and final list is in the post following this one.

[Schmidty]

Team #1 - WSUCougar
1.1 Show, drama - MASH
2.10 Show, other - Star Trek
3.1 Moment, comedy - "As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." (WKRP)
4.10 Actor, comedy - Kelsey Grammer (Frasier)
5.1 Show, drama - The Sopranos
6.10 Performer, drama - James Garner (Rockford Files)
7.1 Moment, drama - Final episode when it's revealed that the show was all an autistic boy's imagination (St. Elsewhere)
8.10 Show, other - Ken Burns' Civil War
9.1 Moment, comedy - John Cleese trying not to mention the war in front of the German guests at the hotel (Fawlty Towers)
10.10 Performer, other - Vanna White (Wheel of Fortune)

Team #2 - Radii
1.2 Moment, drama - Who Shot JR? (Dallas)
2.9 Performer, comedy - Bill Cosby (The Cosby Show)
3.2 Moment, other - Ali vs. Foreman, the Rumble in the Jungle (ABC's Wide World of Sports)
4.9 Show, comedy - South Park
5.2 Show, drama - Hill Street Blues
6.9 Performer, comedy - Billy Crystal (Soap)
7.2 Show, other - The Price is Right
8.9 Show, other - Sesame Street
9.2 Other, moment - Geraldo's nose is broken during a brawl between guests on his show (Geraldo)
10.9 Performer, drama - Hugh Laurie (House)

Team #3 - Crapshoot
1.6 Show, comedy - Cheers*
2.5 Performer, comedy - Henry Winkler (Happy Days)
2.8 Moment, comedy - Dick wakes up next to Emily Hartley (Newhart)*
4.5 Show, drama - The Wonder Years*
5.3 Performer, other - Walter Cronkite (CBS Evening News)
6.8 Show, comedy - Friends
7.3 Perfomer, other - Michael J.Fox as Alex Keaton (Family Ties)
8.8 Moment, drama - The death of Claire Kincaid (Law and Order)
9.3 Moment, other - Futarama - the one with Fry's dog (Futurama)
10.8 Show, drama - Remington Steele

Team #4 - JonInMiddleGA
1.9 Show, drama - Gunsmoke*
2.2 Show, other - Hockey Night in Canada*
3.4 Performer, comedy - Dick Van Dyke (The Dick Van Dyke Show)
4.7 Moment, comedy - The brownie episode (Barney Miller)
5.4 Show, drama - Playhouse 90
6.7 Moment, drama - Final episode "Fall Out" as Number 6 finally meets Number 1 ... and discovers that the enemy is us. (The Prisoner)
7.4 Moment, other - Racer X identity revealed (Speed Racer)
8.7 Performer, other - Walt Disney (Wonderful World of Disney)
9.4 Performer, comedy - Robin Williams (Mork & Mindy)
10.7 Show, other - Wild Kingdom

Team #5 - ThunderingHERD
1.5 Performer, other - Johnny Carson (The Tonight Show)
2.6 Moment, other - Edward R. Murrow vs Joseph McCarthy (See It Now)
3.5 Show, drama - The Twilight Zone
4.6 Moment, comedy - Ellen comes out (Ellen)
5.5 Performer, comedy - Andy Griffith (The Andy Griffith Show)
6.6 Moment, drama - Sam leaps in to Lee Harvey Oswald (Quantum Leap)
7.5 Show, other - Meet the Press
8.6 Performer, drama - Peter Falk (Columbo)
9.5 Show, Comedy - The Office
10.6 Moment, comedy - The Simpsons debuts (The Tracy Ullman Show)

Team #6 - kcchief19
1.3 Moment, comedy - The Outing (Seinfeld)*
3.3 Moment, comedy - Chuckles the Clown Dies (The Mary Tyler Moore Show)*
3.6 Performer, other - David Letterman (Late Night)
4.8 Show, drama - Perry Mason
5.6 Moment, drama - Love's Labor Lost episode (ER)
6.5 Performer, other - Carol Burnett (The Carol Burnett Show)
7.6 Show, drama - NYPD Blue
8.5 Other, show - Nightline
9.6 Moment, other - Jim Valvano's "Don't Ever Give Up" Speech (ESPY Awards)
10.5 Performer, comedy - John C. McGinley (Scrubs)

Team #7 - Maple Leafs / Anxiety
1.7 Performer, comedy - Lucille Ball (I Love Lucy)
2.4 Moment, other - Howard Cossell announces the death of John Lennon (Monday Night Football)
3.7 Moment, drama - Richard Kimble catches the one-armed man (The Fugitive)
4.4 Show, drama - Roots
5.7 Show, comedy - Monty Python's Flying Circus
6.4 Performer, drama - Keifer Sutherland (24)
7.7 Performer, other - Fred Rogers (Mr. Rogers Neighborhood)
8.4 Show, Other - The Oprah Winfrey Show
9.7 Moment, comedy - When a child molester tries to sexually molest Arnold and friend (Diff'rent Strokes)
10.4 Show, drama - Babylon 5

Team #8 - Schmidty
1.8 Show, comedy - All in the Family
2.3 Performer, comedy - Jackie Geason (The Honeymooners)
3.8 Performer, drama - Patrick Stewart (Star Trek: The Next Generation)
4.3 Show, other - 60 Minutes
5.8 Show, drama - The X-Files
6.3 Moment, other - Kermit sings "It's Not Easy Being Green" for the first time (The Muppet Show)
7.8 Moment, other - Bill Clinton plays the saxophone on The Arsenio Hall Show (The Arsenio Hall Show)
8.3 Moment, comedy - "Is Wayne Brady gonna have to choke a bitch?" (Chappelle's Show)
9.8 Performer, drama - Michael Landon (Little House on the Prairie)
10.3 Performer, comedy - Sherman Hemsley (The Jeffersons)

Team #9 - Raven
1.4 Moment, other - The Beatles make their first televised appearance in America (The Ed Sullivan Show)*
2.7 Show, other - Sportscenter*
3.9 Moment, other - Johnny Fairplay lies about the death of his grandmother (Survivor)
4.2 Performer, other - Kurt Cobain (MTV's Unplugged)
5.9 Performer, comedy - Redd Foxx (Sanford and Son)
6.2 Moment, comedy - Moment, Comedy - Al 's dream sequence reliving his 4 TD game from Polk High (Married... with Children)
7.9 Show, drama - Nip/Tuck
8.2 Moment, drama - When we found out Locke was in a wheelchair before the plane crash (Lost)
9.9 Show, drama - Stephen King's IT
10.2 Performer, comedy - Jim Carey (In Living Color)

Team #10 - sachmo71
1.10 Show, comedy - The Simpsons
2.1 Show, comedy - Saturday Night Live
3.10 Show, drama - CSI
4.1 Moment, other - Ken Jennings loses in his bid to win his 75th game (Jeopardy!)
5.10. Performer, comedy - Jack Klugman (The Odd Couple)
6.1. Moment, other - "That would be in the ass, Bob." (The Newlywed Game)
7.10 Moment, Drama, Laura Palmer's killer revealed (Twin Peaks)
8.1 Performer, Other, Judge Wapner (People's Court)
9.10 Performer, drama - Nathan Fillion (Firefly)
10.1 Show, comedy - Arrested Development

*via trade

[Schmidty]

Can anyone come up with an better way to display the teams?

[QuikSand]

Maybe grouping the picks by type... list each person's shows, then performers, then moments. That would be a lot easier to try to judge against one another, I think.

This is very tough to work with in draft order.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Maybe grouping the picks by type... list each person's shows, then performers, then moments. That would be a lot easier to try to judge against one another, I think.

This is very tough to work with in draft order.

Yeah, we need a table. Categories across, teams down, one giant table of everyone for comparison.

[Schmidty]

I have to admit, I have no idea how to do tables and such. Does anyone have time or desire to help out?

[Abe Sargent]

Here are some of my thoughts:

Seinfeld in the first with only one moment? And it wasn't even that big of a moment compared to others? I didn;t think that Seinfeld in teh first was a reach, but I did feel that it was misappropriated.


Star Trek as other, not drama. I'm confused as to why this alignnment was made. It seems like tryng to fit it into another category just to make things work, instead of finding a spot with the more appropriate drama.

Star Trek: TNG was taken WAY early for my tastes. In fact, I'm not convinced that it should have charted at all. Even if it did, there were plenty of other choices that trumped TNG and Stewart's performance.

I think Playhouse 90 is a gamble, because a lot of it isn't available on tape. There's no DVS, no reruns, no recordings at all. You just have to assume that people are right when they say it was great.

I think Nathan Fillion for Firefly was a very big reach. This was a show that did poorly in the ratings, and was only around for half a season. It's done very well in DVD sales, and I personally love it, but how great can a perforamcne be for a show that was low in the ratings and cancelled that early? If you were going to take a cult show that did very well in DVD sales, why not grab a two season show like SportsNight?

My concern over The Office is that it only had 12 episodes and a made for TV movie at the end, but it was taken in the ninth round, so I'm fine with it, although I'll personally rank it a bit lower because there wasn't as much of it available.

Some performers are overrated in my opinion. Their characters and acting was quite limited. These include, Lucille Ball, Henry Winkler, Jackie Gleason. In fact, I think there were better actors with better range in each of these three shows that, acting and performance wise, outshone them.


I think the Wonder years was a serious reach at its position.

Good value:

These are picks that I think saw good value for their place:



Roots
The Cosby Show
Michael J. Fox as APK
Wild Kingdom
Mary Tyler Moore





I also think that these selections show a male bias since most of the selectors were male. There's a lot of action, comedy, and what not in here. Guilding Light absolutely should have been taken, Oprah should have gone way earlier, and so forth.


-Anxiety

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I also think that these selections show a male bias since most of the selectors were male. There's a lot of action, comedy, and what not in here. Guilding Light absolutely should have been taken, Oprah should have gone way earlier, and so forth.

That's partially the bias of the people drafting but its also part of the strategy knowing the audience that's going to be voting on the results.

[KWhit]

I can't believe that the events of 9/11 didn't make this list. I imagine there were more people viewing that on TV than anything else in history.

[Draft Dodger]

to me, Friends, Cheers and Michael J Fox is a tough trio to beat.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

to me, Friends, Cheers and Michael J Fox is a tough trio to beat.

I knew I could count on you, my yeti friend!

[Honolulu_Blue]

I agree with Draft Dodger, though I really want to vote for Sachmo because of the Simpsons and Firefly. While Captain Reynolds was only around for a half a season, it was memorable as hell.

It's all a bit over whelming at this point. I must think on it.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I can't believe that the events of 9/11 didn't make this list. I imagine there were more people viewing that on TV than anything else in history.

The rules were that you had to have a specifc show assigned to any pick. There are many, many world events that couldn't be picked because they were covered as breaking news or special bulletins.

If we hadn't had that rule, I'd bet that virtually all of the "other" picks would have been news events, which wasn't the intention of the draft.

[Warhammer]

It comes down to two for me, WSU with WKRP, The Sorpranos, and John Cleese "The Germans". If you have not seen Cleese's performance, you gotta see it, I just won't mention the war! Also, don't forget Star Trek and the impact that has had not only on TV, but in our culture.

Crapshoot has the Fonz, Alex P. Keaton, Newhart, and Cheers?

This is going to be tough.

[Karlifornia]

Yeah, this will take me a little while to decide who to cast my vote for.

[Raiders Army]

Maple Leafs/Anxiety gets my vote. There are too many iconic shows. Overall though, I think that maybe there should've been more players as all of the teams seem to be very strong.

[Ben E Lou]

Radii, with Who Shot JR, Bill Cosby, Sesame Street and The Price Is Right, stands astride the group as a giant Colossus.

[Buccaneer]

Cool. Just like I did for the Sports draft, I ranked each picked 1-5 but unlike the sports one, this one is much more subjective. With that, there are 3 entries that gets the bonus 10 points score and a few that gets 0, just because. With that, here are the averages:

Crapshoot 3.9
Radii 3.8
JIMGA 3.0
Herd 2.9
ML/Anx 2.8
WSUCoug 2.6
kcchief 2.4
Schmidty 2.4
sachmo 2.4
Raven 2.0

The three 10s were: Who Shot JR, Hill Street Blues and of course, Wonder Years. Quantum Leap would have been the other 10 but no one picked that show and even though I did give Sam's leap into Oswald a 5, there were a couple of other episodes I liked better.

Despite Radii scoring two 10s, he fell down on South Park (ugh) and Geraldo, thus allowing Crapshoot to overtake him with a 10 and several 4s. Some of you went old school which got points, esp. JIMGA, but he tried to get cute with too obscure old school stuff. My award for the worse picks goes to Coug for Vanna White and to sachmo for mentioning the worse show ever, Newlywed Game. Sorry.

[oykib]

I like Crapshoot and Maple Leafs/Anxiety's drafts up until the ninth round. I think they both really flubbed there while JinMiddleGA was taking Robin Williams and Wild Kingdom.

I have to go with Jon here. Since we have to judge based on television history, I have to go with what contemporary belief about series. I never saw Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth play. But I accept they were great players.

In the same way, we don't have footage from Playhouse 90 and don't watch westerns anymore, but we know both that show and Gunsmoke were greatly loved and respected series.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Cool. Just like I did for the Sports draft, I ranked each picked 1-5 but unlike the sports one, this one is much more subjective. With that, there are 3 entries that gets the bonus 10 points score and a few that gets 0, just because. With that, here are the averages:

Crapshoot 3.9
Radii 3.8
JIMGA 3.0
Herd 2.9
ML/Anx 2.8
WSUCoug 2.6
kcchief 2.4
Schmidty 2.4
sachmo 2.4
Raven 2.0

The three 10s were: Who Shot JR, Hill Street Blues and of course, Wonder Years. Quantum Leap would have been the other 10 but no one picked that show and even though I did give Sam's leap into Oswald a 5, there were a couple of other episodes I liked better.

Despite Radii scoring two 10s, he fell down on South Park (ugh) and Geraldo, thus allowing Crapshoot to overtake him with a 10 and several 4s. Some of you went old school which got points, esp. JIMGA, but he tried to get cute with too obscure old school stuff. My award for the worse picks goes to Coug for Vanna White and to sachmo for mentioning the worse show ever, Newlywed Game. Sorry.

After all that, and you forgot to vote? Come on Buc, I know you're old, but I didn't know you were that old.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Quantum Leap would have been the other 10 but no one picked that show and even though I did give Sam's leap into Oswald a 5, there were a couple of other episodes I liked better.

You'd have rated Quantum Leap as one of the greatest shows ever?!

To each his own...

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by oykib

I like Crapshoot and Maple Leafs/Anxiety's drafts up until the ninth round.

Sigh. The Babylon 5 pick had me trying to pull a Mike Martz and dial into the coach's room while play was in progress.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by oykib

You'd have rated Quantum Leap as one of the greatest shows ever?!

To each his own...

I guess it depends how you look at the draft: Is it greatest to yourself, or greatest to popular culture. I took it as greatest to myself once I was past round 3, since it was more fun.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

After all that, and you forgot to vote? Come on Buc, I know you're old, but I didn't know you were that old.

Damn.

oykib, speaking of each his own, I just understand how anyone could even consider recognizing, let alone choosing, stuff like South Park, Seinfeld or Letterman.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

The rules were that you had to have a specifc show assigned to any pick. There are many, many world events that couldn't be picked because they were covered as breaking news or special bulletins.

If we hadn't had that rule, I'd bet that virtually all of the "other" picks would have been news events, which wasn't the intention of the draft.

That makes sense, but I would say that the Today Show live coverage of the 2nd plane hitting the tower would be a 1st round pick, IMO.

[Greyroofoo]

WSUCougar gets my vote solely for having Mash, granted I accidently voted for Schmidty

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by oykib

I like Crapshoot and Maple Leafs/Anxiety's drafts up until the ninth round. I think they both really flubbed there while JinMiddleGA was taking Robin Williams and Wild Kingdom.

I think the most controversial pick I took was the ninth round grab of the Diff'rent Strokes episode, so let me go over a few reasons why I grabbed it. Maybe you'll have more respect for it:

It was the first time a comedy took an episode and focues on some real world issue. The "very special episodes" as they came to be called. ("Next, on a very special Blossom"). This was a new concept and it started a fad. That alone makes it an important TV moment.

Secondly, it made a difference in people's lives. I had been sexually abused as a child, and seeing this episode helped me work though some of those things, like not feeling like I was at fault. It made an impact it my life, and I sure many other children's as well.

Thirdly, although child abuse - physically, had been on TV before, this was really one of the first times on American television that sexual abuse was brought up outside of newsprograms and such.


-Anxiety

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

WSUCougar gets my vote solely for having Mash, granted I accidently voted for Schmidty

I appreciate that, but I accidentally thanked Bucc.

[Raven]

bump.

(plus I just wanted to mark this thread so I could find it easier. )

[Schmidty]

Bump

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

9.3 Moment, other - Futarama - the one with Fry's dog (Futurama)

"If it takes forever...I will wait for you!"

I thought the best moment though of Futurama was when Fry figured out that instead of taking his name, his brother named his son after him, then end with, 'Don't you forget about me'.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

I thought the best moment though of Futurama was when Fry figured out that instead of taking his name, his brother named his son after him, then end with, 'Don't you forget about me'.

Oh shit ... me & Biggles agree on something.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I think the most controversial pick I took was the ninth round grab of the Diff'rent Strokes episode, so let me go over a few reasons why I grabbed it. Maybe you'll have more respect for it:

It was the first time a comedy took an episode and focues on some real world issue. The "very special episodes" as they came to be called. ("Next, on a very special Blossom"). This was a new concept and it started a fad. That alone makes it an important TV moment.

Secondly, it made a difference in people's lives. I had been sexually abused as a child, and seeing this episode helped me work though some of those things, like not feeling like I was at fault. It made an impact it my life, and I sure many other children's as well.

Thirdly, although child abuse - physically, had been on TV before, this was really one of the first times on American television that sexual abuse was brought up outside of newsprograms and such.


-Anxiety

I won't dispute that Diff Strokes was a trend setting sitcom, but the points you make could very easilly apply to shows that came before it: MASH, Family, and even Happy Days or Mork n Mindy all had episodes focusing on real world issues, had "special episodes" and at least one, Family, dealt with spousal abuse and child abuse directly in more than one episode.

I must correct one mistake I've made, ABC's Family while at times hilarious, was technically a drama.

Even so I have to disagree with any major bonus for "strokes":


EDIT: upon further review I voted for your draft anyway on the weight of you other high quality picks.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Oh shit ... me & Biggles agree on something.

haha. I thought about that one as well. In a nutshell, I went for the dog one because its the only cartoon that's ever made me cry - the ending is frigging heartbreaking.

[st.cronin]

The best moment in Futurama I assume has been edited out of the old shows and does not appear in the newer ones. I'm referring, of course, to the JFK Junior joke.

[sachmo71]

Leafs win!!

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Team #3 - Crapshoot
2.5 Performer, comedy - Henry Winkler (Happy Days)

Crapshoot wins on the basis of this selection alone.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Team #8 - Schmidty
6.3 Moment, other - Kermit sings "It's Not Easy Being Green" for the first time (The Muppet Show)

Excellent selection. I believe that this is one of the better, and most underrated, moments in TV history. One thing though: maybe this was discussed in the draft thread (which I didn't read), but I believe Kermit sang this for the first time on Sesame Street (not the Muppet Show).