Baseball Auction Round 4 results

[BishopMVP]

Link - http://www.geocities.com/bishopmvp5/auctionrd4.xls
Rounds 1 through 3 can still be found at http://www.geocities.com/bishopmvp5/auction.xls

Also, the last thread is http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...ad.php?t=21104
and Honolulu Blue's dynasty report/request for line-ups is http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...ad.php?t=21129

Most roster spots were filled. From the teams that sent bids, there were about 6 or 7 that weren't won, so send me your Round 5 bids by 11:59 PM EST Saturday Night. Also, the trading period and write-ups will probably be due about Tuesday night, then I'll start posting the polls. I encourage you to go over to HB's thread once your team is complete, although I'm not sure how he's dealing with Negro Leaguers/Japanese players.

[TLK]

Well, here's my team..... couldn't be happier about how this turned out....

MGR	Stengel, Casey (104)	1934-1965 		1905-1842		7 WS Championships			
									
POS	Name ($)		Years		HOF	Avg	H	HR	RBI	SB	
C	Lombardi, Ernie (21)	1931-1947	Yes	.306	1792	190	990	8	
1B	Stargell, Willie (42)	1962-1982	Yes	.282	2232	475	1540	17	OF
2B	Frisch, Frankie (4)	1919-1937	Yes	.316	2880	105	1244	419	
SS	Yount, Robin (64)	1974-1993	Yes	.285	3142	251	1406	271	OF
3B	Mathews, Eddie (105)	1952-1968	Yes	.271	2315	512	1453	68	
LF	Kelley, Joe (56)	1891-1908	Yes	.317	2222	65	1193	440	
CF	Ott, Mel (63)		1926-1947	Yes	.304	2876	511	1860	89	3B
RF	Kaline, Al (46)		1953-1974	Yes	.297	3007	399	1583	137	
									
C	Meyers, Chief (8)	1909-1917	No	.291	826	14	363	44	
1B-3B	Perez, Tony (36)	1964-1986	Yes	.279	2732	379	1652	49	
2B-3B	Myers, Hy (21)		1909-1925	No	.281	1380	32	1380	107	
3B-SS	Traynor, Pie (30)	1920-1935	Yes	.320	2416	58	1273	158	
OF	McCarthy, Tommy  (1)	1884-1896	Yes	.292	1496	44	666	506	
OF	Murphy, Dale (17)	1976-1993	No	.265	2111	398	1266	161	
OF	Foster, George 		1969-1986	No	.274	1925	348	1239	51	
									
									
POS	Name ($)		Years		HOF	W-L	ERA	K's	ShOs	Saves	
SP1	Drysdale, Don (87)	1956-1969	Yes	209-166	2.95	2486	49	6	
SP2	Hubbell, Carl  (38)	1928-1943	Yes	253-154	2.97	1678	36	0	1 no-hitter
SP3	Sutton, Don (45)	1966-1988	Yes	324-256	3.26	3574	58	3	
SP4	Faber, Red (78)		1914-1933	Yes	254-213	3.15	1471	30	28	
P	Tiant, Luis (6)		1964-1982	No	229-172	3.30	2416	49	15	
P	Bunning, Jim (37) 	1955-1971	Yes	224-184	3.27	2855	40	16	2 no-hitters
P	Rommell, Ed (1)		1920-1932	No	171-119	3.54	599	18	29	
RP	Hernandez, Willie (3)	1977-1989	No	70-63	3.38	788	0	147	
RP	Harvey, Brian (44) 	1987-1995	No	17-25	2.49	448	0	177	
CL	Aguilera, Rick (6) 	1985-2000	No	86-81	3.57	1030	0	318		

[Maple Leafs]

Looks like I have my final roster, barring any trades:

Man. Gaston, Cito - 2

C Chance, Frank - 3
C Lopez. Javy - 6

1B Mize, Johnny - 21
1B Sisler, George - 41
1B Terry, Bill - 6
2B Hornsby, Roger - 203
2B LaJoie, Nap - 51
SS Vaughan, Arky - 51
3B Torre, Joe - 1
3B Chavez, Eric - 4

LF Bell, Cool Papa - 113
CF Speaker, Tris - 111
RF Musial, Stan - 155
RF Gonzalex, Juan - 1
OF Hamilton, Billy - 11
OF Bell, George - 7

SP Brown, Mordecai - 41
SP Joss, Addie - 41
SP Waddell, Rube - 31
SP Walsh, Ed - 41
SP Marquard, Rube - 41
SP Scott, Mike - 1
RP Henke, Tom - 1
RP Wagner, Billy - 14
RP Garber, Gene - 2

Pros - Lots of speed, probably the best collection of contact hitters and OBP guys in the auction. Cool Pappa Bell to lead off, four different .400 hitters in the IF, plus Stan Musial to drive them home. Speaker may be one of the best three all-around CFs ever. The group seems solid defensively, although that's hard to measure with so many guys from the early era. The starting rotation is very solid, and there are some solid relievers. Gaston wasn't a great strategist, but he was one of the all-time great manangers when it came to keeping a group of all-stars happy and winning, which seems to fit perfectly with this sort of contest.

Cons - A lack of power is the obvious one. Mize hit 50 HRs, Musial has pop and modern guys like Juan Gone, Chavez and Bell provide HR threats, but considering other teams will have guys like Ruth and Bonds, this lineup won't scare anyone in terms of the deep ball. I also probably went too heavy on guys from the early part of the century if we're going to have some sort of vote. They're good players, but will the average fan even know who Addie Joss was?

[Honolulu Blue]

One note: Bryan Harvey is listed as being won by Suicane75. He was won by TheLionKing in round 3.

Thanks BishopMVP for the mention. For the Negro Leaguers, I mostly used the best comparable major league player, tweaking the bio and some rating data as appropriate. For the Japanese Leaguers, I found a couple of sites with career data, so I plugged in that data - with some air let out, of course.

With the addition of RP Jeff Montgomery, my roster is now full. Let's take a quick look at it:

mgr - McCarthy

c - Simmons & Parrish
1b - Hernandez
2b - Morgan & Whitaker
3b - Schmidt
ss - G. Davis
1b/3b - Evans
ss/3b - Petrocelli
of - Keller, Ashburn, Robinson; Gibson, E. Davis, Bonds

sp - Grove, Perry, Blyleven, Key
swing - Ferrell, Lemon
rp - Hiller, Ward, Montgomery, Tekulve

I continue to be happy with the lineup and bench; and I think the rotation and pen have developed nicely.

The biggest weakness is that it might be a little bit of a tough sell. There are only 7 current Hall of Famers here, but several others might still make it in the future. I definitely picked these guys for how well they play(ed) ball and not because of whether they have statues in Cooperstown. We'll see how it all plays out.

[oykib]

bump

[Vince]

Ugh, I kept meaning to do this, and kept meaning to do this, and I never got around to it. I wonder if Bishop even has time to do bids for me...I'll whip some up anyways.

[oykib]

Did we extend the deadline of this for Vince? If so, when to?

I have a feeling there might not be any contested bids in this round anyway, since most of the teams are already filled.

BTW, I miscounted my players. So the 1 point bid I put is will be erroneous.

[BishopMVP]

ntndeacon bids 24 on wilbur cooper

Oykib bid on a player already bid upon in Rd 1, so just let me know who you want.

Chief Rum bids OF Dwight Evans--10, 3B Bill Madlock--10, OF Ken Williams--10
Suicane75 gets Mitch Williams and Greg Olson

For everyone who does not yet have a full complement of players, just send/post a list of those you want. I'll wait until Thursday Night @ 11:59 PM EST, which also constitutes the trading period. At whatever time after that point I get around to it, rosters will be finalized, and I'll start posting polls. Also, everyone who's interested(including myself) needs to get over to Honolulu Blue dynasty report, where currently only 2 roster set-ups have been submitted. You can also make fun of how terrible he must have drafted, since he just lost a game to the all-time Rangers.

[Vince]

Ugh, excuses excuses from my end. Hopefully I can get something together by Thursday...this was fun, and I kind of like my team. Anyhow, thanks for all the work you've put in Bishop!

[Honolulu Blue]

Thanks again Bishop.

I've finalized the schedule and some other details. Lineups are due by Friday evening, 2/13. Read the dynasty thread for further details.

[oykib]

I'll take Jim Edmonds if he hasn't been taken yet.

[oykib]

If Edmonds is okay, then this is my team (more details to come):

Position	Name			B/T	Other

C	Josh Gibson		R/R	
1B	Eddie Murray		S/R
2B	John Henry Lloyd	L/R	SS, 1B
3B	Shigeo Nagashima	R/R	
SS	Barry Larkin		R/R	
LF	Tim Raines		S/R	CF
CF	Oscar Charleston	L/L	OF, 1B
RF	Vladimir Guerrero	R/R	

C	Katsuya Nomura		R/R	
C	Louis Santop		L/R	LF, RF, 1B, 3B	
2B	Max Bishop		R/R	
3B	Chipper Jones		S/R	LF
3B	Ray Dandridge		R/R	SS, 2B 
CF	Larry Doby		L/R	2B, SS
CF	Jim Edmonds		L/L	

RHP	Robin Roberts		B/R	Durable
RHP	Smokey Joe Williams	R/R	Fireballer, Durable	Best early-era Black Pitcher
LHP	Masaichi Kaneda	         L/L	Durable			#1 in all Japanese pitching stats 
RHP	Dazzy Vance		R/R	Fireballer		7-time Ks champ

LHP	Ron Guidry		L/L	

RHP	Bullet Joe Rogan	R/R	Fireballer, Durable	sidearmer, stylish, good hitter 
(10th in Negro League career batting avg, 40 HR per 550 AB)

LHP	Harry Brecheen		L/L	
RHP	Mike Mussina		L/R				6-time gold glove pitcher
LHP	Mel Parnell		L/L
RHP	Sal Maglie		R/R          Intimidator          .657 winning percentage

MGR.	Billy Southworth		1044 - 704	.597	4 Pennants, 
2 World Series Championships in twelve years of managing

Players in boldface are Hall of Famers.
Players in italics are members of a foreign Hall of Fame.
Ray Dandridge is a member of the Mexican Hall of Fame as well as ours.

I think everyone should post their completed rosters to make it easier to see what's available for trade and team needs.

[Suicane75]

Somehow I still only have 24 players, ill put in for 1 more guy but my team is pretty much set.

C- Jim Sundberg
1B- Todd Helton
2B- Pete Rose
SS- Gary Sheffield
3B- Cap Anson
LF- Daryl Strawberry
CF- Ken Griffey Jr.
RF- Bo Jackson

SP 1- Hal Newhouser
SP 2- Steve Carlton
SP 3- Curt Schilling
SP 4- Orel Hershiser
SP 5- Frank Tanana

LHR- Randy Myers
LHR- Sam McDowell
RHR- Mitch Williams
RHR- Greg Olson
CL- Dennis Eckersley

BENCH- Isao Harimoto OF
BENCH- Cecil Fielder 1B
BENCH- Matt Nokes C
BENCH- Vince Coleman OF
BENCH- Julio Franco 2B
BENCH- Pee Wee Reese SS

MANAGER- Jim Fregosi

[oykib]

Looking at my team, I am somewhat suprised at how it turned out. I hadn't expected to go with as many non-major leaguers as I did. But that's where the value was.

I think that no one will have trouble acepting the greatness of the Negro Leauers that I have in my starting lineup. Gibson, Charleston, and Lloyd are all ranked number one at their positions by Bill James. They also all rank in his top thiry all-time, with Charleston and Gibson being in his top ten. They are all Hall of Famers as well.
In addition, John Holway (the leading scholar on the Leagues rates them all #1 at their positions).

Overall, 10 of my 25 are HOFers and three of the others are members of a foreign hall. Of the remaining twelve, only half are eligible. The six active or just retired seem fairly good bets to get in-- with the exception of Edmonds.

My basic reasoning was that if the guy didn't play in the majors, then he'd better be the best there ever was at the position he played in whatever other league. That being said I think I'll only have to convince people of Nagashima among players in my starting lineup. Since outside the aforementioned three, only he is an unknown among my starting eight.

Pitching is another story. I know a lot of people have no clue who the pitchers on my staff are. But I figured I could cheaply fill my rotation with the second-tier HOF starters and make up the difference with defense. Every member of my starting lineup was/is a "plus" defender except for Raines and Guerrero (and both of them have great speed and above average RFs and ZRs for corner outfielders). I especially wanted mobile infielders to handle bunts and turn DPs.

Pros
Great up-the-middle defense. Great team speed. Very Good power. Underrated, but good pitching staff. Probably, the most versatility of any of the teams so far (which is important in a no-DH league).

Cons
Unknown and/or underrated guys. Tough to win a poll with them. Probably lack a top-10 pitcher-- though James has Smokey Joe Williams at #13 and Robin Roberts at #18. Really would've liked to have picked up a soft-tosser like Tommy John for the bullpen.

[Bearcat729]

I seem to need one more player so I think I'll take Pitcher Hippo Vaughn

That would make my team

Manager John McGraw
P Jack Chesbro
P Grover Cleveland Alexander
P John Clarkson
P Chief Bender
P Whitey Ford
P Carl Mays
P Hippo Vaughn
P Trevor Hoffman
P John Smoltz
C Roger Bresnahan
C Bill Dickey
1B Hank Greenberg
1B Ted Kluszewski
2B Cupid Childs
2B Johnny Evers
3B Stan Hack
3B Al Rosen
SS Alex Rodriguez
SS Lou Boudreau
SS Joe Sewell
OF Duke Snider
OF Ralph Kiner
OF Paul Waner
OF Hugh Duffy
OF King Kelly

[Honolulu Blue]

Bishop: Who's the manager for your team?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

P Jack Chesbro
P Grover Cleveland Alexander
P John Clarkson
P Chief Bender
P Whitey Ford

Man, that's a nice starting four.

[oykib]

Here's the list of teams that i cut and pasted from the excel worksheets and the third round results thread. That's why the formatting sucks. But I figured that these'd help facilitate trading.

Chief Rum

Allen, Dick - 10
Bedrosian, Steve - 10
Durocher, Leo - 10
Hernandez, Roberto - 11
Hoyt, Waite - 10
Manush, Heinie - 11
Stewart, Dave - 10
Willis, Vic - 10
Worrell, Todd - 10
Banks, Ernie - 100
Campanella, Roy - 60
Collins, Eddie - 60
Feller, Bob - 60
Clemens, Roger - 155
Heilman, Harry - 5
Jackson, Reggie - 105
John, Tommy - 5
Killebrew, Harmon - 155
Morris, Jack - 5
Munson, Thurman - 4
Nettles, Graig - 4
O'Doul, Lefty - 5
Sosa, Sammy - 155
Allen, Dick - 10
Bedrosian, Steve - 10
Durocher, Leo - 10
Hernandez, Roberto - 11
Hoyt, Waite - 10
Manush, Heinie - 11
Stewart, Dave - 10
Willis, Vic - 10
Worrell, Todd - 10


BishopMVP

Brouthers, Dan - 2
Ewing, Buck - 2
Martinez, Pedro - 121
Mathewson, Christy - 121
Paige, Satchel - 11
Radbourn, Old Hoss - 2
Walker, Larry - 2
Williams, Jimy - 1 (mgr)
Williams, Ted - 152
Wilson, Hack - 2
Day, Leon - 12
Dihigo, Martin - 57
Face, Roy - 62
Kent, Jeff - 103
Lindstrom, Freddie - 12
Marshall, Mike - 57
Percival, Troy - 112
Smith, Hilton - 12
Wells, Willie - 12
Pinson, Vada - 14
Aparicio, Luis - 14
Campaneris, Bert - 14
DiMaggio, Dominic - 14
Ferrell, Rick - 45
Johnson, Judy - 12
Vaughn, Mo - 17
White, Frank - 14
Williams, Matt - 27


ntdeacon

Cey, Ron - 24
Haines, Jesse - 24
Connor, Roger - 43
Howard, Elston - 40
Lyons, Ted - 65
Pennock, Herb - 32
Posada, Jorge - 100
Rixey, Eppa - 40
Ruffing, Red - 30
Santo, Ron - 50
Stearnes, Turkey - 5
Beckley, J - 17
Fox, Nellie - 21
Goslin, Goose - 11
Keefe, Tim - 9
Keeler, Wee Willie - 39
Kell, George - 14
Rizzuto, Phil - 41
Waner, Lloyd - 63
Welch, M - 5
Alston, Walter - 6 (mgr)
Carew, Rod - 63
Hunter, Catfish - 1
Maranville, Rabbit - 3
Medwick, Joe - 6
Ruth, Babe - 274

vtbub

Concepcion, Dave - 10
Dibble, Rob - 45
Garvey, Steve - 30
Lee, Bill - 10
Martin, Billy (2B) - 35
Martin, Pepper - 20
Perranoski, Ron - 25
Podres, Johnny - 15
Wood, Wilbur - 15
Brock, Lou - 20
Fisk, Carlton - 35
Garciaparra, Nomar - 5
Kaat, Jim - 15
McCarver, Tim - 1
Puckett, Kirby - 30
Remy, Jerry - 5
Rice, Jim - 30
Sutter, Bruce - 50
Torre, Joe - 75 (mgr)
Trammell, Alan - 10
Yastrzemski, Carl - 15
Young, Cy - 25
Buckner, Bill - 3
Hahn, Noodles - 10
Martinez, Edgar - 25
Newcombe, Don - 15

Ramzavail

Alomar, Roberto - 35
Boggs, Wade - 25
Cochrane, Mickey - 25
Dawson, Andre - 31
Gooden, Dwight - 20
Johnson, Davey - 10 (mgr)
Klein, Chuck - 25
McGraw, Tug - 15
Molitor, Paul - 41
Piazza, Mike - 61
Richard, JR - 15
Simmons, Al - 41
Bagwell, Jeff - 46
Franco, John - 46
Galvin, Pud - 66
Glavine, Tom - 41
Jeter, Derek - 87
Oh, Sadaharu - 82
Pujols, Albert - 22
Reardon, Jeff - 56
Spalding, Al - 81
Thomas, Frank - 51
Travis, Cecil - 11
Cuyler, Kiki - 21
Rice, Sam - 20
Soriano, Alfonso - 26

Vince

Baker, Home Run - 81
Bench, Johnny - 86
Biggio, Craig - 11
Fingers, Rollie - 39
Koufax, Sandy - 126
LaRussa, Tony - 21 (mgr)
Smith, Ozzie - 66
Wetteland, John - 1
Beck, Rod - 11
Blue, Vida - 51
Cone, David - 2
Flood, Curt - 2
Joyce, Bill - 12
Mitchell, Kevin - 2
Nichols, Kid - 131
Palmeiro, Rafael - 21
Reuschel, Rick - 11
Righetti, Dave - 11
Saberhagen, Brett - 2
Wilson, Willie - 1

Isiddiqui

Aparicio, Luis - 10
Brett, George - 80
Clark, Will - 10
Clemente, Roberto - 60
Cronin, Joe - 30
Gehringer, Charlie - 60
Mantle, Mickey - 150
Minoso, Minnie - 20
Palmer, Jim - 30
Seaver, Tom - 100
Wilhelm, Hoyt - 20
Anderson, Sparky - 1 (mgr)
Boyer, Ken - 10
Averill, Earl - 55
Burgess, Smokey - 20
Burkett, Jesse - 20
Cash, Norm - 30
Gordon, Joe - 30
Lynn, Fred - 60
McGinnity, Joe - 60
Porter, Darrell - 20
Snaughter, Enos - 34
Wynn, Jimmy - 10
Coveleski, Stan - 10
Steib, Dave - 40
Vizquel, Omar - 30

sooner333

Bonds, Barry - 200
Cobb, Ty - 65
Latham, Arlie - 1
McGwire, Mark - 1
Appling, Luke - 47
Brown, Kevin - 13
Cepeda, Orlando - 52
Giles, Brian - 17
Mack, Connie - 12 (mgr)
Marichal, Juan - 111
Parker, Dave - 13
Santiago, Benito - 11
Stephens, Vern - 21
Suzuki, Ichiro - 79
Thigpen, Bobby - 3
Urbina, Ugueth - 12
Willis, Dontrelle - 1
Wynn, Early - 93
Bradford, Chad - 1
Canseco, Jose - 20
Cicotte, Eddie - 80
Dotel, Octavio - 1
Durham, Ray - 1
Matthews, Bobby - 33
McGraw, John (3B) - 83
Ward, John - 41


Coffee Warlord.
Starting Lineup
---------------
1) CF - Carey, Max (15)
2) RF - DiMaggio, Joe (110)
3) 3B - Robinson, Brooks (67)
4) 1B - Foxx, Jimmie (105)
5) LF - Maris, Roger (65)
6) C - Berra, Yogi (110)
7) 2B - Sandberg, Ryne (25)
8) SS - Marion, Marty (64)
Bench
-----
C - Kendall, Jason (16)
1B - Grace, Mark (11)
2B - Castillo, Luis (20)
3B - Santo, Ron (21)
SS - Dark, Alvin (46)
OF - Winfield, Dave (12)
OF - Lofton, Kenny (1)
Starting Rotation
-----------------
1) Dean, Dizzy (96)
2) Niekro, Phil (18)
3) Gomez, Lefty (72)
4) Prior, Mark (36)
5) Valenzuela, Fernando (21)
Bullpen
-------
LR - Lieber, Jon (1)
MR - Isringhausen, Jason (14)
MR - Jones, Doug (14)
CL - Nen, Robb (27)
Manager
-------
Weaver, Earl (5)

Booj

Manager
--------
Felipe Alou (1)
Lineup
-------
2B- Billy Herman (15)
RF- Tony Gwynn (97)
LF- Billy Williams (45)
C- Gary Carter (52)
SS- Cal Ripken, Jr. (31)
1B- Don Mattingly (25)
CF- Andruw Jones (12)
3B- Robin Ventura (5)
Bench
------
C- Mickey Tettleton (1)
1B- Andres Galarraga (1)
2B- Miller Huggins (50)
3B- Tim Wallach (1)
SS- Tony Fernandez (1)
LF- Dave Kingman (15)
CF- Bernie Williams (1)
RF- Paul O'Neill (60)
Rotation
--------
1. Bob Gibson (150)
2. Greg Maddux (100)
3. Nolan Ryan (100)
4. Dennis Martinez (60)
5. Roy Halladay (1)
Bullpen
-------
Tim Burke (20)
Dan Quisenberry (25)
Eric Gagne (26)
Closer: Lee Smith (100) (although all the other 3 can close games as well)
total points : 997

[Honolulu Blue]

WANTED: Lefty or switch hitting outfielder. Must be able to win a home run derby with K. Gibson. Intimate knowledge of the strike zone a must. Ability to steal bases a plus. Ability to cover CF is a plus, but will train the right candidate.

WANTED: Lefty or switch hitting first baseman. Ability to play defense well is highly desirable, but will train the right candidate. Must have thorough knowledge of strike zone. Must be able to produce tape measure shots on demand - or at least with great frequency.

Willing to offer fair value for your candidate(s). Contact J. McCarthy or H. Blue for more details. No reasonable offer refused!!!*

* I am the final determinant of what is reasonable.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Bearcat729

I seem to need one more player so I think I'll take Pitcher Hippo Vaughn

My computer time is a bit limited right now, but if he's available, he is yours. The remaining players are available on a first-come first-serve basis, so just post in this thread who you want. Don't bother PM'ing me, as I may not get back to you promptly. Just double-check to make sure they haven't already been picked, as pretty much everybody (including me) has messed up at least once so far.

[Suicane75]

I'll take Andy Petite to fill out my roster

[ISiddiqui]

Manager: Anderson, Sparky - 1

Lineup:

1) LF - Minoso, Minnie - 20
2) 2B - Gehringer, Charlie* - 60
3) 3B - Brett, George* - 80
4) CF - Mantle, Mickey* - 150
5) RF - Clemente, Roberto* - 60
6) SS - Cronin, Joe* - 30
7) 1B - Clark, Will - 10
8) C - Burgess, Smokey - 20

Bench:

C - Porter, Darrell - 20
1B - Cash, Norm - 30
2B - Gordon, Joe - 30
3B - Boyer, Ken - 10
SS - Aparicio, Luis* - 10
SS - Vizquel, Omar - 30
LF - Burkett, Jesse* - 20
CF - Averill, Earl* - 55
CF - Lynn, Fred - 60
RF/LF - Snaughter, Enos* - 34
CF/LF/RF - Wynn, Jimmy - 10

Rotation:

SP1 - Seaver, Tom* - 100
SP2 - Palmer, Jim* - 30
SP3 - McGinnity, Joe* - 60
SP4 - Coveleski, Stan* - 10
SP5 - Steib, Dave - 40

RP - Wilhelm, Hoyt* - 20

* - denotes Hall of Famer

[oykib]

I gotta say that I like, my idealogical nemesis, Isiddiqui's roster a lot. Not greatly fond of the catchers... But very good to great everywhere else including the best bench in the league. Tough to get through a season with six pitchers, though.

It looks like I'm in the toughest division, though. Rum's team is nasty. Sooner's squad is also a group of tough customers. Unghhh...!

Is there a rule that says West divisions always have to be the toughest?!

[oykib]

Have we died here?

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by oykib

Have we died here?

Oh heavens no. The fun is about ready to start. For me, anyway.

There are several reasons for the lack of activity:

1) Everyone is pretty happy with their team as is.
2) There aren't any future consideration/draft picks available for trade.
3) Trades can only be done in even numbers - i.e. 1-for-1, 2-for-2, etc.
4) Nobody really knows how the poll is going to go, and how to maximize their chances of winning.

As for the other part (the Diamond Mind showdown), my preliminary analysis tells me that the teams are fairly evenly matched. Some have better pitching, some have better defenses, some draw more walks, some hit for higher averages, some have more power, etc. But the difference between the "best" and "worst" teams on paper is much smaller than the difference in real MLB. I'll try to have a more detailed analysis on Friday night or Saturday morn.

[Vince]

Ok, I'm finally finishing my roster right now, if that's still ok. Should be up in about half an hour.

[Vince]

Dola - ok, to fill out my bench:

Scott Rolen
Manny Ramirez
Juan Pierre
Jim Thome
David Justice

EDIT - If someone's already got these guys, let me know...I was only looking at the first four round Excel sheets online.

Team write-up in a moment.

[Vince]

The dreaded double-dola:

Pos	Player	Bid	AVG	HR	RBI	SB	OBP		Notes
C	Johnny Bench	86	0.267	29	103	5	0.342		2 MVP; 14 All-Star; 10 GG; HOF
1B	Rafael Palmeiro	21	0.291	33	106	6	0.373		4 All-Star; 3 GG; 528 C HR, #13
2B	Craig Biggio	11	0.287	15	67	28	0.375		7 All-Star; 4 GG; 241 HBP, #5
3B	Frank Baker	81	0.307	10	102	24	0.363		HR Leader 4 years; HOF
SS	Ozzie Smith	66	0.262	2	50	37	0.337		15 All-Star; 13 GG; HOF
LF	Kevin Mitchell	2	0.284	31	101	4	0.360		2 All-Star; '89 MVP
RF	Manny Ramirez	-	0.317	41	134	4	0.413		7 All-Star; 1.010 C OPS, #6
CF	Juan Pierre	-	0.307	1	47	51	0.357
			ERA	W-L/S	SO	WHIP	INN
LH SP	Sandy Koufax	126	2.76	15-8	229	1.11	222		6 All-Star; 3 CY; 3 TC; '63 MVP; HOF
RH SP	Kid Nichols	131	2.95	20-11	107	1.22	291		361 C W, #5; 5056.3 IP, #11; HOF
RH SP	Brett Saberhagen	2	3.34	14-10	151	1.14	226		3 All-Star; 2 CY
RH SP	Rick Reuschel	11	3.37	13-11	126	1.27	222		3 All-Star; 2 GG
LH SP	Vida Blue	51	3.27	14-11	151	1.23	233		6 All-Star; '71 CY + MVP
RH SP	David Cone	2	3.46	15-9	208	1.26	226.7		5 All-Star; '94 CY; 8.28 K/9, #14
LH MR	Dave Righetti	11	3.46	21	93	1.34	118		2 All-Star; 252 C S, #21
RH MR	John Wetteland	1	2.93	35	86	1.13	81.7		3 All-Star; 330 C S, #8
RH MR	Rollie Fingers	39	2.90	23	90	1.16	117.7		7 All-Star; '81 CY + MVP; 341 C S, #7; HOF
RH MR	Rod Beck	11	3.21	28	63	1.15	74.3		3 All-Star; 286 C S, #17
MGR	Tony LaRussa	21	AVG	HR	RBI	SB	OBP		4 MotY; 1 WS; 3 AL Championships
BENCH	Bill Joyce (3B)	12	0.294	13	109	47	0.435		.435 C OBP, #6; HR Leader in 1896
BENCH	Scott Rolen (3B)	-	0.282	30	109	13	0.374		97 ROY; 5 GG; 2 All-Star
BENCH	Curt Flood (RF)	2	0.293	8	59	8	0.389		3 All-Star; 7 GG
BENCH	Willie Wilson (CF)	1	0.285	3	44	50	0.326		2 All-Star; 1 GG; 688 C SB, #12
BENCH	Jim Thome (1B)	-	0.285	40	112	2	0.411		3 All-Star; #13 C OPS, #15 C SLG
BENCH	David Justice (RF)	-	0.279	31	102	5	0.378		90 ROY; 3 All-Star

Bold = Hall of Fame
Well, the outfield is still weaker than I'd like, and the Wizard and Biggio better not get tired...but I like my team overall. Good blend of power and speed, and we have some great defensive players. Our rotation is great (in my opinion anyways ), and we have a solid set of relievers as well. We also have a great mix of power and speed off the bench, not to mention defensive replacements. Though we might not have the star power of some teams, I think this team can get it done. Starting lineup:

Order	Name, Position	Average	HR	RBI	SB	OBP
1)	Juan Pierre, CF	0.307	1	47	51	0.357
2)	Craig Biggio, 2B	0.287	15	67	28	0.375
3)	Frank Baker, 3B	0.307	10	102	24	0.363
4)	Manny Ramirez, RF	0.317	41	134	4	0.413
5)	Rafael Palmeiro, 1B	0.291	33	106	6	0.373
6)	Kevin Mitchell, LF	0.284	31	101	4	0.360
7)	Johnny Bench, C	0.267	29	103	5	0.342
8)	Ozzie Smith, SS	0.262	2	50	37	0.337
9)

Not bad, if I do say so myself

[Suicane75]

Vince,
Griffey & Hershiser & Tannana for Koufax, your worst pitcher & your worst outfielder?

[Vince]

Suicane, I'm off to work, but your offer intrigues me. I'll look it over tonight.

[Honolulu Blue]

Suicane75:

Griffey would look good in Honolulu Blue and silver.

Let's throw a monkey wrench into the works... I'll take Griffey and Hershiser, while offering you your choice of one from Column A and one from Column B:

Column A:
-------------
* Richie Ashburn - speedy, can pick it, good average.
* Eric Davis - blazing fast, righty with good pop.
* Kirk Gibson - very quick, lefty with good pop.

Column B:
-------------
* Gaylord Perry - 300+ wins, HOF, great spitball.
* Bert Blyleven - almost 300 wins, legendary curveball.
* Wes Ferrell - good pitcher, good hitter, can swing.
* Bob Lemon - HOF, great record, good hitter.

[BishopMVP]

I'm extending the trading/finalizing rosters until Sunday night, because I don't want to post the polls over the weekend.

HB - My manager is Jimy Williams. THE Jimy Williams.

[Suicane75]

HB, while I appreciate the offer I just can't give Griffey up for any of those Pitchers.

[ntndeacon]

Now i wish I had griffey for those offers...lol

[Suicane75]

Dont get me wrong, I strongly considered Perry, but in the end I couldn't convince myself to do it.

[ISiddiqui]

I gotta say that I like, my idealogical nemesis, Isiddiqui's roster a lot.

Your's isn't so bad itself . Your knowledge of Negro Leagues and Japanese Major Leagues has paid off handsomely. Gibson and Charleston are a great anchor.

But very good to great everywhere else including the best bench in the league. Tough to get through a season with six pitchers, though.

The statements go together . I wasn't planning on having such a large bench and few pitchers.. but I was outbid for my 7 & 8 pitchers. Ah well... at least I don't have many modern pitchers, these boys are expected to go the whole way .

[Honolulu Blue]

Bishop: Gotcha. Thanks.

Suicane75: I understand. I don't have any counteroffers, and unfortunately I have to leave in a few hours, so it's highly unlikely I will be making any trades before the deadline.

BUT... there's no reason not to have a longer trade deadline in the Diamond Mind sim, until, say, July 31 game time. It would require everyone to keep track of slightly different rosters, but you guys are all smart and I think you can handle it.

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Now i wish I had griffey for those offers...lol

Well, I'll make a similar offer for the Babe.

Everyone: Would anyone like to volunteer to do a writeup of my team for the poll's first round? As mentioned elsewhere, I'll be away from Net access during that time. I'd do it myself, but I don't yet know the parameters. I won't blame you when I get torched, I promise. Thanks.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

BUT... there's no reason not to have a longer trade deadline in the Diamond Mind sim, until, say, July 31 game time. It would require everyone to keep track of slightly different rosters, but you guys are all smart and I think you can handle it.

Everyone: Would anyone like to volunteer to do a writeup of my team for the poll's first round? As mentioned elsewhere, I'll be away from Net access during that time. I'd do it myself, but I don't yet know the parameters. I won't blame you when I get torched, I promise. Thanks.

Didn't feel like separating these two.

On the first point, I want to make sure everyone knows that when I list deadlines now, it is for the poll aspect only. What HB is doing with Diamond Mind is completely up to him.

For the write-ups, I don't expect them to be long. I just expect a line-up/pitching staff/bench and a paragraph or so describing the advantages and strong points of your team.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

Everyone: Would anyone like to volunteer to do a writeup of my team for the poll's first round? As mentioned elsewhere, I'll be away from Net access during that time. I'd do it myself, but I don't yet know the parameters. I won't blame you when I get torched, I promise. Thanks.

I'll take care of it for you if you want. I'll do a thorough job too. I am a pretty long-winded guy-- particularly when it comes to baseball.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by oykib

I'll take care of it for you if you want. I'll do a thorough job too. I am a pretty long-winded guy-- particularly when it comes to baseball.

Thanks. You're hired.

P.S. I've updated the dynasty thread with some notes, analysis, and wild guesses - er, I mean predictions. Nothing vital, but it might be interesting.

[ntndeacon]

[quote=Honolulu Blue]


Well, I'll make a similar offer for the Babe.

Yes the problem is that I woulda done it for Griffey...but the Babe?....not so much.

[BishopMVP]

On the poll - I"m gonna take HB divisions, and combine them into 2 for Round 1. The top two vote getters in each division advance to the finals. If you want a team write-up, leave it in this thread or PM me in the next couple days. The poll will open either Late Sunday or Early Monday.

East:
Ramzavail
Isiddiqui
BishopMVP
vtbub
Honolulu Blue
Bearcat729
TheLionKing
Coffee Warlord

West:
Oykib
Chief Rum
Sooner333
Vince
Maple Leafs
ntndeacon
Suicane75
Booj

[oykib]

HB asked me to do his writeup because he is unavailable.

Lineup

C	Ted Simmons		S
1B	Keith Hernandez	        L
2B	Joe Morgan		L
3B	Mike Schmidt		R
SS	George Davis		S
LF	Charlie Keller		L
         Eric Davis		R
CF	Richie Ashburn	        L
         Bobby Bonds		R
RF	Frank Robinson		R

Bench

C	Lance Parrish		R
2B	Lou Whitaker		L
3B	Darrell Evans		L
SS	Rico Petrocelli		R
LF	Kirk Gibson		L

Rotation

SP1	Lefty Grove		L
SP2	Gaylord Perry		R
SP3	Bert Blyleven		R
SP4	Jimmy Key		L

Spot1	Wes Ferrel		R
Spot2	Bob Lemon		R
Spot3	John Hiller		L

Set-L	Hiller			L
Set-R	Duane Ward		R
	Jeff Montgomery	R
Cls-L	Hiller			L
Cls-R	Kent Tekulve		R
	Montgomery		R

Players in boldface are Hall of Famers.

Key Players

1.	Joe Morgan	2-time MVP	5-time Gold Glove second baseman
One of the most important, and most overlooked, abilities a team has is its
ability to turn double plays.  Can the second baseman and shortstop get to
balls and turn two.
	HB is set here with Mr. Morgan.  Morgan was an amazing defensive player
and a great offensive player as well.  Morgan was actually more productive than 
Rogers Hornsby in the offensive context of his day.  And Morgan was a great guy
to have in the clubhouse.  Morgan?s average per 162 (and he played 150 games a year):

 AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG   TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP

567  101  154  27  6  16   69  42 10 114  62  .271  .392  .427  242   3   6   5   2   6

	That's after losing big numbers when he played the first part of his career in
the Astrodome, which was hell for hitters.  In today?s numbers, he?d be as valuable as
A-Rod.

2.	Lefty Grove	1931 MVP	Two-time pitching triple crown winner
Lefty Grove may be the greatest pitcher who ever lived.  He was overlooked for
years, before the Sabermetric revolution, because he played in a big-hitting era.
	Grove led the league in ERA+ ( the percentage that a pitcher is better
than the league ERA) nine times.  He never ranked lower than eighth.  In a
thirteen year career he finished 1, 8, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 4, 1, 1.  He led in
strikeouts for seven straight years.  He even led the league in saves once while,
incidentally, leading in Wins, Strikeouts, Games Pitched, ERA, and winning
percentage.
	For Pedro Martinez to do what grove did, he'd have to duplicate his
1997-2003 production rate, while becoming durable enough to start 35 times a
year, and add that onto his career numbers.

3.	Mike Schmidt	3-time MVP	10-time Gold Glove winner
Schmidt was the best hitting third baseman and the second-best fielding third
baseman in history.  In our all-time league, having Schmidt and Hernandez
in the infield is essential.  They totally destroy the other team?s ability to bunt
(both for sacrifices and for hits).  That can't be underestimated in a league with
the amount of all-time speed burners we have.
Schmidt was an offensive powerhouse as well.  He led the league in offensive
categories like it was going out of style: HR- 8 times, SLG- 5 times, OBP- 3 times,
OPS- 5 times, Runs- once, RBI- 4 times, Walks- 4 times, OPS+- 6 times,
HBP- once, SF- twice, TB- 3 times, X-base hits- 5 times.
With the exception of Bonds, no recent player has dominated the league so much.

4.	Frank Robinson	2-time MVP	1966 Triple Crown winner
Frank Robinson is likely the most underrated power hitting outfielder of all time.
He hit 586 career homers.  He also could run, throw, hit for average, and played a
solid outfield.  Bill James has him ranked as one of the best percentage players
(the smartest) in history.  Earl Weaver continually lauded his intelligent approach
to the game.
	Robinson is number twelve all-time in Gray Ink (top ten finishes in offensive
categories).  That is a testament to his all-around game.  And, despite playing with a
number of all-time greats running around during his prime, his Black Ink number is
good as well (he is 42nd all-time with a 35).  He is also still the only player to win the
MVP in both leagues.

Unknown Guys

George Davis      Davis was a switch hitter who played a solid short.  His
career OPS+ was 121.  With Morgan he forms one the most solid double play
combinations in he league. 

[oykib]

Here's my squad.

Nishinomiya Nine

Owner:		Oykib
Manager:      Billy Southworth     1044 - 744 .597    4 Pennants, 2 Championships
Stadium:	Koshien Stadium

Lineup

LF	Tim Raines		S
2B	John Henry Lloyd	L	SS, 1B
CF	Oscar Charleston	L	1B
C	Josh Gibson		R
RF	Vladimir Guerrero	R
1B	Eddie Murray		S
3B	Shigeo Nagashima	R
SS	Barry Larkin		R

Bench

C	Katsuya Nomura	        R
C	Louis Santop		L	1B, RF, LF
2B	Max Bishop		R
3B	Ray Dandridge	       R	SS, 2B
3B	Chipper Jones		S	LF
CF	Larry Doby		L	OF, 2B, SS
CF	Jim Edmonds		L

Rotation

Sp1	Smokey Joe Williams	RHP
Sp2	Robin Roberts		RHP
Sp3	Masaichi Kaneda	        LHP
Sp4	Dazzy Vance		RHP

Spot1	Ron Guidry		LHP
Spot2	Bullet Joe Rogan	RHP

Long1	Sal Maglie		RHP
Long2	Mel Parnell		LHP

Set-R	Mike Mussina		RHP
Set-L	Harry Brecheen	        LHP

Close	Bullet Joe Rogan	RHP	Every position but catcher 

Players in boldface are in the Hall of Fame.
Players in italics are members of a foreign Hall of Fame

Key Players

1.	Josh Gibson	Probably the greatest right-handed power hitter of all-time.
Mr. Gibson combined that with a high average and the ability to almost never strikeout.
But best of all, he did it while being a very good defensive catcher.  He moved well and
had an excellent throwing arm.  His homer rate was comparable to Ruth's but he didn't
walk nearly as much, although he was like Joe Dimaggio or Yogi Berra and very rarely
struck out despite his incredible power.  Had he played in the majors, he might have been
the only player in history to hit over five hundred homers and have fewer strikeouts
than home runs.  He also, like Ruth, hit for one of the highest career averages in his
league while hitting all those dingers.

2.	Oscar Charleston	Was very much like Gibson, and all the true greats,
in that he had a skill set that doesn't really match up with anyone in history.  The two
players he is most often compared to are Ty Cobb ad Willie Mays.  He had the same
high spikes, take no prisoners attitude as Cobb.  But he was closer to Mays or Dimaggio
with his skill set.  Considered the most perfect all around player by many experts.  Had
more speed than Mays, though likely not as much power.  Played the Tris Speaker,
Andruw Jones, Paul Blair style of centerfield-- 50 feet behind second base and
outrunning the deep fly balls.

3.	Robin Roberts		A super durable pitcher.  Roberts had among the highest
workloads in history and continued to be the best or among the best pitchers in the NL.
Roberts, despite an excellent fastball, didn't have a high K rate.  Rather, he pitched
to the deep outfield in Philly and allowed Ashburn to run under everything-- good
control and excellent when pitching head in the count.

4.	Bullet Joe Rogan	Perhaps the most underrated player in history-- he or
Tris Speaker.  Rogan was the second best pitcher of the later era of the Negro Leagues.
the Satchel Paige, Josh Gibson era.  But he wasn't just a pitcher.  He has the tenth
highest career average in Negro League history.  He also had good power-- hitting almost 40
homers per 550 Abs in his career.
	I was actually very surprised by his accomplishments.  I originally picked him up
in a later round because I knew he was a sidearmer and figured him to be the Jeff Nelson
of my 'pen.  But the more I researched him the more I began to see his true greatness.
Rogan was an excellent defensive player.  He was considered the best defensive pitcher
in the league.  But that doesn't tell the story.  He batted cleanup for his teams.
	But they kept him in the lineup even when he didn't pitch.  He didn't just get
stuck at first either.  He most often played second base or centerfield, although he
played everywhere.  He would, almost certainly, have been the most valuable player
Win Share per season-wise in the Negro Leagues.  Unfortunately, he started his career
late.  He spent ten years in the army before joining the leagues at 27 or 28. 

5.     John Henry "Pop" Lloyd     The best shortstop in Negro League History.
Is most often referred to as the 'black Honus Wagner'.  He had similar 
production in the Negro leagues as Wagner had in the Majors.  He led the 
league in Bating Average several times, including the highest single season 
record.  He led and at various points in homers and other stats as well.
       The stats in the Negro Leagues were iffy to say the least.  But we have
a clear idea of his abilities.  He was considered the best Shortstop in his league-- particularly adept at turning the double play.  He also played second
and-- when he was older-- first.  But he did it as ne of the best offensive
players of his day-- the best in his prime.  And he continued to perform at an
All-Star level into his mid-forties.
       His biggest contribution may have been his ability to mentor young
players.  He managed and brought up a number of players and picked up the
nickname 'Pop' from the youngsters who respected him so much.  I think he
can do the job as my captain.

Other unknown guys

Smokey Joe Williams	The best pitcher from the early era of the Negro Leagues.
Satchel Paige called him the best pitcher that he had ever seen.  Williams got the
Nickname Cyclone after striking out twenty of the then National League Champion
New York Giants in an exhibition game.  He was a huge Right-hander who threw
hard. 

Ray Dandridge	The highest rated third baseman in the Negro Leagues.  He
was actually a shortstop.  But he most often played third and occasionally second because
because he was on a team with Willie Wells.  He was a consistent .300 hitter and ran
extremely well.  His defense, though, gets the most praise.
He was extremely bow-legged and the most common quote about him was that
A train could go through his legs, but a baseball never did.  His defense is usually
compared to Brooks Robinson.  He also had a pedestrian arm for a third baseman
but always seemed to get the guy at first and was like a vacuum for anything hit to his
area.

Louis Santop	The second rated catcher in Negro League history.  He was a huge
Lefty-hitting power hitter.  He was also a good defensive catcher.  He had a great
Arm, but was not very mobile.  He was an excellent plate blocker.

Masaichi Kaneda	The greatest pitcher in Japanese history.  He holds the records
For career Wins, Innings, Games Started, Strikeouts, etc.  His team, the Swallows,
pitched his arm off to the tune of 360 innings a year in a 130 or 140 game season.
Freakishly, he never sustained a serious injury but pitched with lowered effectiveness
from all his abuse for most of his career.  That lowered level still left him at or near
the top of the league for most of his career.  His early seasons are truly amazing.

Katsuya Nomura	He was the greatest power hitter in Japanese Baseball before Oh
broke all his records.  Nomura was a catcher but played almost every game and caught
for over 25 years.  Ranks #2 of Japanese ballplayers all-time in most evaluations.
  
Shigeo Nagashima	The most loved and respected player in Japanese baseball. 
He was the captain of the Yomiuri Giants team that won nine consecutive championships.
He was a gold glove third baseman for every year the award was given during his career.
He was also a .300 with good power who could steal 20-30 bases a year.  He batted
cleanup for the Giants team with Oh.  Is loved nationally as the smartest and most clutch
ballplayer in Japanese history-- a reputaion he solidified by becoming the greatest
manager.  Ranks #3 in most evaluations of Japanese ballplayers.

[oykib]

bump...

Are we going to have a discussion thread for each division before we set up the poll?

[BishopMVP]

vtbub

Concepcion, Dave - 10
Dibble, Rob - 45
Garvey, Steve - 30
Lee, Bill - 10
Martin, Billy (2B) - 35
Martin, Pepper - 20
Perranoski, Ron - 25
Podres, Johnny - 15
Wood, Wilbur - 15
Brock, Lou - 20
Fisk, Carlton - 35
Garciaparra, Nomar - 5
Kaat, Jim - 15
McCarver, Tim - 1
Puckett, Kirby - 30
Remy, Jerry - 5
Rice, Jim - 30
Sutter, Bruce - 50
Torre, Joe - 75 (mgr)
Trammell, Alan - 10
Yastrzemski, Carl - 15
Young, Cy - 25
Buckner, Bill - 3
Hahn, Noodles - 10
Martinez, Edgar - 25
Newcombe, Don - 15

Ramzavail

Alomar, Roberto - 35
Boggs, Wade - 25
Cochrane, Mickey - 25
Dawson, Andre - 31
Gooden, Dwight - 20
Johnson, Davey - 10 (mgr)
Klein, Chuck - 25
McGraw, Tug - 15
Molitor, Paul - 41
Piazza, Mike - 61
Richard, JR - 15
Simmons, Al - 41
Bagwell, Jeff - 46
Franco, John - 46
Galvin, Pud - 66
Glavine, Tom - 41
Jeter, Derek - 87
Oh, Sadaharu - 82
Pujols, Albert - 22
Reardon, Jeff - 56
Spalding, Al - 81
Thomas, Frank - 51
Travis, Cecil - 11
Cuyler, Kiki - 21
Rice, Sam - 20
Soriano, Alfonso - 26

sooner333

Bonds, Barry - 200
Cobb, Ty - 65
Latham, Arlie - 1
McGwire, Mark - 1
Appling, Luke - 47
Brown, Kevin - 13
Cepeda, Orlando - 52
Giles, Brian - 17
Mack, Connie - 12 (mgr)
Marichal, Juan - 111
Parker, Dave - 13
Santiago, Benito - 11
Stephens, Vern - 21
Suzuki, Ichiro - 79
Thigpen, Bobby - 3
Urbina, Ugueth - 12
Willis, Dontrelle - 1
Wynn, Early - 93
Bradford, Chad - 1
Canseco, Jose - 20
Cicotte, Eddie - 80
Dotel, Octavio - 1
Durham, Ray - 1
Matthews, Bobby - 33
McGraw, John (3B) - 83
Ward, John - 41

[BishopMVP]

BishopMVP’s Team

Defense

C	Buck Ewing
	Rick Ferrell
1B	Dan Brouthers
	Mo Vaughn
2B	Jeff Kent
	Frank White
3B	Matt Williams
	Judy Johnson
SS	Willie Wells
	Bert Campaneris
LF	Ted Williams
CF	Hack Wilson
RF	Larry Walker
	Vada Pinson
	Dom DiMaggio
	Utility - Martin Dihigo

Pitching

SP1	Christy Mathewson
SP2	Pedro Martinez
SP3	Satchel Paige
SP4	Old Hoss Radbourn
SPOT	Leon Day
Long	Hilton Smith
RP1	Roy Face
RP2	Mike Marshall
Closer	Troy Percival

And of course, they are led by the immortal Jimy Williams.

Pros: Best Pitching Staff bar none. Ted Williams may be the best hitter ever. The rest should be good enough to score a few runs a game, and with Christy Mathewson, Pedro and Satchel Paige, that should be enough.

Cons: Didn't get great infielders. Although they are all very good players, only Buck Ewing comes close to being considered the best ever at his position.

[ntndeacon]

Lineup
1. Lloyd Waner CF
2. Rod Carew 2B
3. George Herman "THE BABE" Ruth RF
4. Joe "Ducky" Medwick LF
5. Jake Beckley 1B
6. Phil Rizzuto SS
7. George Kell 3B
8. Elston Howard C

Bench
C Jorge Posada
1B Roger Conner
2B Nellie Fox
SS Rabbit Maranville
3B Ron Cey
LF Goose Goslin
CF Turkey Stearnes
RF "Wee" Willie Keeler

Pitching Staff
Starters:
SP Ted Lyons
SP Eppa Rixey
SP Mickey Welch
SP Tim Keefe
SP Red Ruffing
"Bullpen":
Jesse Haines
Herb Pennock
Wilbur Cooper
Catfish Hunter

Strengths:
Well right field to be sure. beside Ruth(the best player EVER)(and who can pitch decently in a pinch) Keeler is not a slouch. Defense is solid. Also have a lot of speed. Most of the team are Hall of Famers (Cey, Cooper,Howard, Posada are the ONLY exceptions)Plus I have 2 all time leaders in homers (Roger Conner held the record prior to Ruth)
Weaknesses:
Probably need a bit more power.

[Honolulu Blue]

Oykib: Thanks for the writeup. Really appreicate it. Nice job.

One thing I want to mention is that the manager of this motley bunch is Hall of Famer [b]Joe McCarthy[b], who managed for 24 seasons and never had a losing record. Never. You can look it up for yourself..

P.S. The first two weeks of my little DMB experiment is up. Take a look at it if you're interested and have time.

[oykib]

Hey, HB. What did you do to my players?!

I've got a spreadsheet that gives a weighted average of six chosen seasons of a players career. I don't have anywhrer to host. But I can send it to you if you want it. To see the results, you can go to the poll #1 thread. Here's an example of Joe Morgan with a peak year of 1975, covering years 1972-77:

Name	        Years	G	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	AVG	OBP	SLG	TB	HBP

Joe Morgan	1972-7	148	511	111	157	28	5	21	87	61	11	121	54	0.307	0.442	0.505	258	3