06-25-2007, 06:55 PM | #1 | |||
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Gay Adoption
I noted that CNN had a story on this today, and its an interesting topic, IMO:
Personally, I'm not sure how anyone can say with a straight face that its better for a kid to be stuck in a foster home or an orphanage than with two parents who love/care for them. Even if you think gay people are "icky" (the Bubba Wheels position), is it preferable to leave kids in an orphanage as opposed to this situation? Quote:
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06-25-2007, 06:58 PM | #2 | |
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Quote:
The same way some people can say that AIDS is bad but condoms are worse.
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06-25-2007, 07:05 PM | #3 |
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Im with you all the way, Crapshoot.
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06-25-2007, 07:15 PM | #4 |
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I'm with you too, Crapshoot. A stable loving family is so much better than an institution such as an orphanage or an unstable foster care system.
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06-25-2007, 08:40 PM | #5 |
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06-25-2007, 08:56 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
second |
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06-25-2007, 09:19 PM | #7 |
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I come from a Southern family that leans hard to the right. But I have no problem with gay adoption at all. It seems like everyone that I talk to has no problem with gay adoption, yet there is no way that will change anytime soon.
Politics in this country suck.
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06-25-2007, 09:24 PM | #8 | |
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Quote:
Yep. Seems like such a no-brainer really.
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06-26-2007, 01:33 AM | #9 |
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Thanks guys. I guess I'm just curious who exactly opposes this. Does anyone gain from keeping kids from people who want them?
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06-26-2007, 01:58 AM | #10 |
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It's just the old guard way of thinking. It's archaic, and gay marriage will be legal across the board within 50 years, and gay adoption will be widely accepted around the same time, I imagine. I mean, just a little over 40 years ago, blacks couldn't go to white colleges. This country has advanced a lot in a short amount of time, and I see it continuing the same way.
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06-26-2007, 02:30 AM | #11 |
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I think that's a commentary on social conservatives that, presumably, acknowledge the horror that is AIDS while at the same time opposing distribution of condoms because doing so (in their view) "encourages" sex as opposed to their preferred method of prevention (abstinence).
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06-26-2007, 07:22 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
People oppose it because it normalizes "being gay" or something like that. I knew a few people in Boston who were deathly opposed to gay people adopting because they 1) believe it helps legitamize something they think is amoral and 2) they actually think there is greater harm in a child being raised by gay parents than in foster homes. It's sad, but that's the breaks I guess. I agree with the above posters...a loving home is a loving home regardless.
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06-26-2007, 07:25 AM | #13 |
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like, let's get together and adopt all the way?
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06-26-2007, 08:33 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
It won't be that easy. Gay adoption to me is acceptable for the reasons outlined above. However, I still feel, and will always feel that marriage is a religous sacrament and if a religion does not want to perform a marriage than they don't have to. Of course, I realize the Justice of the Peace can do this whenever they want which I also disagree with. |
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06-26-2007, 12:45 PM | #15 | |
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Im blown away by the persons whose problem with gay marriage centers entirely around it being called "marriage." |
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06-26-2007, 01:23 PM | #16 | |
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I don't think anyone has ever suggested that a church should be forced to perform same sex marriages. If anything, your argument could be used the other way. There are churches right now that do perform same sex marriages but the state will not recognize them, which to me is a 1st amendment violation.
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06-26-2007, 02:46 PM | #17 | |
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Me too. I definitely know people who feel strongly about this. Trying to compare it to racism(which I've heard done) seems to be going a bit too far for me, but its absolutely a level of intolerance that I find fairly despicable and am very uncomfortable with. |
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06-26-2007, 02:59 PM | #18 |
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since no one laughed at my previous joke, here's the pic that came with the article
(note the glove)
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06-27-2007, 09:21 AM | #19 |
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hilarious
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06-27-2007, 09:30 AM | #20 | |
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I have no problem with the state recognizing a civil union so that the benefits, rights, protections, etc., that men and women enjoy are extended to same sex couples. I have a...conceptual problem with calling it marriage because of the religious aspect of it. But I don't think it should matter, since a civil union would provide exactly what the marriage proponents are looking for. You can call it a "marriage," but it's really not.
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06-27-2007, 09:57 AM | #21 |
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There are plenty of Christian denominations that recognize gay marriage.
You are totally gay if you didn't know that.
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06-27-2007, 09:57 AM | #22 |
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I guess I'll be the first one to say that I'm not sold on the idea of gay and lesbian adoption, not because I don't think gays and lesbians make good parents, but because of the possible effect it can have on kids (especially as they get older and their peers become more questioning of the non-traditional family structure).
Then again, I've about had it with social conservatives having little problem with rampant divorce while at the same time being opposed to anything having to do with gay marriage. Seems to me most social conservatives these days are anti-gay rather than pro-family. (bet you never thought you'd see THAT post from me!)
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06-27-2007, 10:15 AM | #23 | |
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Haven't really had the need to look into, personally. Seriously, though, I'm not aware of any of the "big" denominations that have expressed that position. There are plenty of offshoots out there, so I'm sure several have taken that position. But to suggest that this is accepted as a matter of course among churches is not correct. It really doesn't matter to me...I support a state-recognized right to a union, and if they can find a church that will bless it, good for them. But as far as the state is concerned, and the legal benefits that flow from the state, a civil union is all that is necessary, is it not? Whether they want to legitimize it as a marriage at a religious institution is above and beyond the state's involvement.
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06-27-2007, 10:24 AM | #24 | |
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You would also need federal recognition of that state civil union or it really limits the legal effect of the union (ie moving between states, travelling, any issue arising from out of state commerce, child moved out of state, etc.). There also is a potential short-coming with regard to common law interaction with statutory-defined unions since a lot of common law refers to "marriage." It might be possible to make a "union" the same as "marraige" under common law by statute, but it ain't easy (see the unusual effects that have occurred by statutes that have reached too broadly in banning gay marriage).
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06-27-2007, 10:32 AM | #25 |
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I can see that - having studied family law for the Bar last year and thinking through all of those issues. I guess I really don't have an issue with it being termed a "marriage" other than what that term suggests, and the reality that many religious institutions would not support gay "marriage." But if the will of the people is to allow the legal benefits to be extended, then I certainly would not have a problem with doing away with the definitional distinction to mimic, legally, how these laws should be interpreted and enforced.
The problem, of course, is that the best chance there is for this to gain widespread acceptance is the civil union argument and taking "marriage" out of the equation as a concession. And then you'd have the basis for a good compromise...neither side would be particularly happy with the result.
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06-27-2007, 12:49 PM | #26 |
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Since when has it been so controversial to adopt a gay person?
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06-27-2007, 01:02 PM | #27 | |
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Quote:
I would say that anyone who claims to be "pro-family", yet constantly opposes gay marriage and gay adoption, is the exact opposite of "pro-family" (and would be clearly anti-gay). |
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06-27-2007, 01:25 PM | #28 | |
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Quote:
I don't agree with your stance Cam, but putting that aside, it comes down to this for me - is the kid better of in a foster home/ orphanage, or with people who clearly want and care for him/her? I think you can question the family unit from a religious perspective, and still come to the same conclusion. Re: your 2nd point, one of the most amusing statistics I recall reading is that evangelical divorce rates are higher than that of the general populace. |
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06-27-2007, 02:09 PM | #29 | |
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But I also think a loving, stable gay household is superior to all other possible situations. |
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06-28-2007, 07:33 AM | #30 |
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I think you're the right person around here to ask, so: What's your oppinion on the psychological effect of a kid have two dads or two mothers? Or what is the general opinion? Not saying I'm against the idea of happily married gay couples addopting children, hence, being parentless can't be a better situation.
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06-28-2007, 08:43 AM | #31 | |
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a while back when the gay marriage debate was raging here in massachusetts (the first time around) there was an op-ed letter in the globe from a lady, something along the lines of: "My husband and I have been married 15 years, and I think this is ridiculous. If you are opposed to gay marriage because you feel that calling it marriage threatens or weakens your marriage, then you have more serious problems in your marriage than that." made me |
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06-28-2007, 11:30 AM | #32 | |
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Most of the recent literature states that the general incidence of psychiatric and psychological problems in adopted children are the same as the general population and a few papers that have examined gay adoption have shown the same findings. I think that if the parents are loving and concerned and anticipate problems such as what other children might say and prepare their children to deal with it appropriately, that there is no significant negative psychological effect of a child being raised by two loving gay parents. |
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06-28-2007, 02:29 PM | #33 | |
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Quote:
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06-28-2007, 04:45 PM | #34 | |
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I think I answered the question at least partially, but the data doesn't answer the question fully. There isn't a great deal of individual study, but the epidemiological studies indicate that children raised by gay parents basically have the same chance of turning out with a disease as kids raised in traiditional families and the same chance of being healthy (physically and mentally) adults. So, there is no evidence from large number mass epidemiological studies that kids become confused by being raised by 2 moms or 2 dads. Also, all of the adoption studies show that as a whole, kids raised by 2 parents who are in a healthy partnership (marriage) do significantly better than kids raised by 1 parent or 2 separated parents. Of course, I'm sure you could find individual cases that support other view points. |
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06-29-2007, 03:51 AM | #35 |
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I'm still wondering whether there even has been a reasonable chance to study the same-sexe parents situation, as I'm presuming it's relative new and sample size may be a problem for a clearcut conclusion. Anyway, thanks for the answers EF27.
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