[Brian Swartz]

Hopefully I won't cause a problem by wading in here; I'm never sure if it's useful, so please ignore my post if you don't find it to be so.

To me the elephant in the room that has been danced around through this entire discussion is what the nature of war is. Just to use one well-known example, take the U-Boat warfare Germany used during WW1. This was criticized for targeting civilians, even though the allies absolutely did put weapons and other war materials on civilian ships. Meanwhile Germany countered that the allied blockade targeted German civilians in large part, and they were correct on that but it was also effective against the war economy as well.

Point being, we don't like facing the fact in modern times IMO that this kind of thing is what war is. There is no nice way to do it. I think most wars are unjustified, but in the cases where they are truly necessary, you have to do whatever is necessary to win the war, and the more quickly you can do so the better it is for all parties concerned.

In this particular case, from a moral standpoint both Hamas and Israel should be ostracized by the international community. Both have persisted in decades of war and are unwilling to have peace. Yes, Israel has offered a variety of peace deals but none of them have been remotely acceptable or reasonable. Until they are willing to offer one that accepts a strict boundary on their territory and offers Palestinians contiguous territory with reasonable access to resources rather than depending on what crumbs Israel sees fit to permit them, they are behaving as a rogue terrorist state and should be treated as such. For their part, Hamas as has been stated a number of times doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist, and continues the river-to-the-sea rhetoric, so that speaks for itself.

I think the reason we don't do that is that it's in our national interests not to and we care a lot more about that than any moral stand. Same reason we've treated China as a valuable trade partner and not a horrific example of humans rights abuses for decades, starting long before the point where they became the superior economic power.

This war will last until both sides are willing to do what's necessary to end it. Who the stronger side is really doesn't matter, because neither can enforce an end to the fighting. Israel is generally capable of causing more misery for Hamas than vice-versa, but they can't stop them from fighting back whenever they get the chance. You can't force peace on people who repeatedly refuse it.

While we disagree on a great many particulars, I'm generally with Rainmaker on what the US and others should do; treat terrorist actions like what they are, and refuse to support those involved in any way until they stop.