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Solecismic · 03-20-2022, 08:22 PM

I don't read pro-Putin. I see a lot I don't agree with and could try to discuss if it doesn't take us too far off-topic. But just because he's trying to discuss the grey areas within this issue doesn't make him pro-Putin.

No one should get blind support or blind condemnation. Sometimes, someone does something that is so far out-of-bounds that you can't think about the person without thinking about that act. I think Putin is at that level now. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Milosevic and Saddam Hussein were certainly there.

Putin's attack is absolutely brutal and far beyond what the US did in Iraq. In Mariupol, the goal is clearly to target civilians, reduce the civilian infrastructure to rubble, and send the people who haven't been able to flee because of the constant shelling to what hopefully isn't concentration camps, but looks like it might be something along those lines. The idea of grey areas also requires understanding the difference. That doesn't mean Bush was right to go into Iraq. I don't think he was. But our military was under orders not to target civilians and Russia is doing the opposite. I don't recall the UK refusing Bush - there were troops from quite a few countries.

Until Putin invaded Ukraine, he had the ability to open a reasonable line of discussion about Crimea and NATO. He had a legitimate beef regarding the Maidan rebellion. But reasonable people keep trying diplomacy - even sanctions on their end if no one is listening. Instead, Putin supported this long, pointless war in Eastern Ukraine for eight years, is still doing the same thing in Georgia, then lined up his troops and attacked the rest of Ukraine, where his only claims relate to a very limited historic context that just isn't true today and something everyone knows is false regarding Nazi control.

Now, all we will recall is that this butcher attacked an independent country and when his military couldn't seal the deal in the expected 72 hours, started trying to kill as many people as possible. I don't see this as an opportunity to bring Hiroshima and Nagasaki into the discussion. The Japanese might have been close to defeat, but they were still doing everything they could to prolong the war because surrender was not something that leadership would consider at that time. Not that we should be proud of the use of atom bombs, but I think if you had asked the numerous allies their take on that in the 1940s, you wouldn't have gotten "fear of the Americans" as a significant response.

03-20-2022, 08:22 PM	#657
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I don't read pro-Putin. I see a lot I don't agree with and could try to discuss if it doesn't take us too far off-topic. But just because he's trying to discuss the grey areas within this issue doesn't make him pro-Putin. No one should get blind support or blind condemnation. Sometimes, someone does something that is so far out-of-bounds that you can't think about the person without thinking about that act. I think Putin is at that level now. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Milosevic and Saddam Hussein were certainly there. Putin's attack is absolutely brutal and far beyond what the US did in Iraq. In Mariupol, the goal is clearly to target civilians, reduce the civilian infrastructure to rubble, and send the people who haven't been able to flee because of the constant shelling to what hopefully isn't concentration camps, but looks like it might be something along those lines. The idea of grey areas also requires understanding the difference. That doesn't mean Bush was right to go into Iraq. I don't think he was. But our military was under orders not to target civilians and Russia is doing the opposite. I don't recall the UK refusing Bush - there were troops from quite a few countries. Until Putin invaded Ukraine, he had the ability to open a reasonable line of discussion about Crimea and NATO. He had a legitimate beef regarding the Maidan rebellion. But reasonable people keep trying diplomacy - even sanctions on their end if no one is listening. Instead, Putin supported this long, pointless war in Eastern Ukraine for eight years, is still doing the same thing in Georgia, then lined up his troops and attacked the rest of Ukraine, where his only claims relate to a very limited historic context that just isn't true today and something everyone knows is false regarding Nazi control. Now, all we will recall is that this butcher attacked an independent country and when his military couldn't seal the deal in the expected 72 hours, started trying to kill as many people as possible. I don't see this as an opportunity to bring Hiroshima and Nagasaki into the discussion. The Japanese might have been close to defeat, but they were still doing everything they could to prolong the war because surrender was not something that leadership would consider at that time. Not that we should be proud of the use of atom bombs, but I think if you had asked the numerous allies their take on that in the 1940s, you wouldn't have gotten "fear of the Americans" as a significant response.