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Originally Posted by albionmoonlight
Considering the bravery of the Ukrainians, the unprofessionalism of the Russian military, and the united nature of the world response, things are going about as well as they possibly could at this point.
And Putin still has the ability (and, it appears, the plan based on the French reports of their talks with Russia) to either take over Ukraine, grind it into dust, or some combination of the two.
I'm still wondering about the endgame here. Putin will not turn tail and run. And Ukraine is not giving up. And millions of civilians are in the way.
Someone really, really, really needs to get rid of Putin.
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Originally Posted by cuervo72
Yeah, this is my nagging feeling too. All the sanctions in the world probably aren't going to stop Putin from completely leveling the entire country if that's what it takes. Which it might, but nobody is willing to step in militarily to prevent that, so...
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Yeah, we've reached the point where he basically said, "fine, I'm not doing this the way the US does where they try (yes, try and sometimes fail) to just hit military targets and leave everything else intact for their bs nation building". Instead, he's pivoted to "this is war and if I have to bomb every square inch of the ground to take it, so be it". This shouldn't be all that surprising, considering how much he's talked about how there is no such thing as a Ukrainian - they're all Russians. Anyone who disagrees will just be killed and he'll rebuild it in Russia's image.
I guess this is similar to my assessment on Monday with a healthier dose of "oh, right, even if Ukraine holds out for a while, they still aren't going to be able to hold their entire country from Russia for the duration without more help in terms of boots on the ground and planes in the sky.
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Originally Posted by sterlingice
It also looked like they were trying to go "minimal casualty", as much as you can during wartime. Yes, there were some civilians killed, but they looked a lot more like accidental attacks not deliberate. They were hoping to just take over the Ukrainian government and leave most things intact - better to not have to use your own money to rebuild your future colonies. It feels like in the last 48 hours, Putin may have pivoted to actually wiping the Ukrainians off the face of the earth, even without using nukes. He called in the Chechens with the brutal reputation (and they were promptly killed). There's been more targeting of civilians, more hits on infrastructure like the gas pipelines and storage, etc. If he wants to ratchet things up, direct fighting towards some more critical areas "accidentally" hit that dam which takes out electricity and floods a number of towns, hit the nuclear waste supply depots, fight near water treatment plants and accidentally cripple those - that sort of thing.
I really have no idea where this goes from Putin getting "suicided" to protracted war with atrocities to more strategic goals where Russia pulls back from fortified Kiev and concentrates on the eastern part of the country.
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I also think that Biden and the EU have been very clear over and over - we can keep supplying you with arms but we can't actually fight for you or enforce a no fly around you. And, if that's the case, Russia's just going to grind them down with numbers and artillery. Throughout history, Russia has never been one to care if they kill a bunch of peasants, theirs or anyone else's.
SI