[klayman]

It's going to be a long 11 months, I think

Bettman downplays meetings with Goodenow

TORONTO (CP) -- It doesn't bode well for the NHL labour situation when the two sides can't agree on what constitutes a meeting.

NHL Players' Association head Bob Goodenow said Wednesday that there have been more than a dozen meetings already. They just hadn't been made public.

But league commissioner Gary Bettman seemed to indicate Thursday that those were informal discussions between he and Goodenow, nothing as official as Wednesday's session which included players and owners for the first time.

Goodenow slammed Bettman for that interpretation.

"My reference to the 12-plus meetings was in fact to full-day meetings between the parties, not casual phone conversations between Gary and I," Goodenow told The Canadian Press on Thursday evening.

"What Gary has to come to grips with is that his repeated public challenges to us during this past year to commence discussions was completely disingenuous, given all the meetings and discussions we both know were going on at the time," said Goodenow, who offered to supply dates and locations of the previous meetings from the past year.

Earlier Thursday, during a league conference call with reporters, Bettman was asked to clarify the timeline with regard to collective bargaining meetings and his response seemed to indicate that all discussions before Wednesday had been informal conversations between the two.

"That's an interesting question because I have consistently said over the last year that Bob and I meet and confer on a regular basis," Bettman said. "... I know Bob yesterday was quoted as saying 12 times. I'm surprised it was that infrequent because I know I talk to him much more frequently than that and I think I see him more frequently than that.

"There was a lot of speculation about when we were going to start formal negotiations and yesterday we were in a position to meet with players and owners, which made the process more formal than it's ever been. And in that regard I think it was a constructive step."

Bettman has regularly -- and publicly -- invited the NHLPA to start negotiations. Goodenow has finally had enough, deciding to come out and detail the earlier meetings.

"The only difference between yesterday's discussions and the previous discussions is that we broadened the participants by bringing in the players and the owners," said Goodenow. "The discussions were very, very similar in nature to previous discussions.

"To mischaracterize the previous meetings is misleading."

Either way, Wednesday's meeting was welcomed by all sides as the league and its players attempt to avoid a labour dispute when the collective bargaining agreement expires next September.

"We parted cordially yesterday. I think it was a constructive session in so far as we had a candid exchange of ideas and positions," Bettman said. "We agreed to disagree on some fundamental things, but we did agree to keep the lines of communication open."

The chief issue remains the NHL's pursuit of `cost certainty,' Bettman's catch phrase for some form of salary cap. The NHLPA remains steadfastly opposed.

"The players do not believe in a salary cap system, no question. They never have," Goodenow said. "The league has never operated under a salary cap system in its history. The owners have complete control to set players' salaries."

The fact that unrestricted free agents Teemu Selanne, Paul Kariya, Joe Nieuwendyk, Magnus Arvedson and Bryan Marchment, among others, all took pay cuts on the open market this summer seems to further back the NHLPA's argument that a cap isn't needed to curtail salaries.

"The system has always been that way," Goodenow said. "It's (the owners') responsibility to run their businesses efficiently. And what we've seen this summer is teams making decisions. And I think that's healthy. That's evidence of a market place working."

The league's position is clear. While revenues have grown over the years, they haven't increased nearly as fast as players' salaries. The average NHL salary was $1.79 million US this year, up from $558,000 US in 1993-94.

The league released a memo to its owners this summer stating that total operating losses last season reached nearly $300 million, compared to losses of $40 million in 1993-94.

"The hockey business, from revenue and attendance and exposure standpoints, from a licensing and sponsorship standpoint, has probably never been stronger," Bettman said. "But we have disparities between revenues and expenses and we have disparities among teams in terms of what they are able to do and we need for the long haul to create and agree upon a system that will address those disparities so that all of our teams can be stable, healthy and competitive.

"By the same token while the revenue sources have never been higher, the same can be said of players' salaries, which have increased at a rate even faster than our revenues and is at the core of the economic problems that we're having."

The problem at this point is that the NHLPA doesn't believe the league's financial records, despite the fact they have been shared with the union. For example, while the Los Angeles Kings continue to post losses, the union believes the Staples Center -- owned by the Kings -- continues to make a profit but isn't included in the Kings' financial records.

"We do not believe that they are accurate," Goodenow said of the numbers the league has put forward. "And No. 2, that they completely represent all the business components involved in running a professional franchise."

Bettman defended the league's financial numbers earlier in the day.

"I have complete and total confidence in our understanding of the economics of our business," Bettman said. "I believe we have done an excellent job of making the union aware of the economics of our business and I really don't think there's any bonafide dispute as to our condition. ...

"To the extent that there is not an understanding or a belief that there is a problem then the union needs to get itself up to speed and comfortable because we believe to a certainty and we're relying on it with everything we do."