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Old 04-30-2010, 07:00 PM   #63
JonInMiddleGA
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordscarlet View Post
I'm not sure when the argument became that it needs to be earlier -- maybe that is just a tangent started by Greg. I apologize if I'm just the asshole that refuses to read every post.


That tangent came in somewhere up the thread (ace mentioned it around pg 3, give or take your posts-per-page setting) & I thought it was kind of where you came in so I ran from there. Could have been reading comprehension failure and/or errant post combining on my part.

Quote:
as the original question stated, I think it's definitely going in the wrong direction. Unless the failure rate has been steady since the current standards existed, why lower them? If it's just a byproduct of a poor education system and the reduction of responsibility by many parents, then I don't think reducing the requirements is the correct answer.

On the original question though, I believe the focus was indeed mostly about the utility of math beyond algebra for the masses period. On that I really do tend to agree with the original premise (i.e. that Algebra I should be the maximum min. required math course) that going beyond that is largely a waste for the majority of students & that time could probably be better spent elsewhere. Thing is, I really don't know how much further than that actual "requirements" go from one state to the next.

Going back to the specific Georgia examples I used earlier, here's the thing:
The actual state HS graduation requirement (math-wise) is to have 4 credits in mathematics, pass any required EOCT's for classes taken, and pass the mathematics section of the graduation test.

Looking at a more detailed course catalog from Gwinnett County, I find:
-- All 9th graders are required to take Algebra I & pass a state EOCT (end of course test)
-- All 10th graders are required to take Integrated Geometry* and pass an EOCT (* or equivalent course, name could vary I think)

From there, it gets kind of fuzzy, there are options starting as early as 9th grade that let you work at a higher pace & basically combine more than a year of material into a single year (the requirements above + more) preparing you for (as well as leaving room in your schedule for) things like AP Calculus toward the end of your HS career. Or you could take the standard track starting with those two above and then go Algebra II in 11th, with half-year courses in Stats/Discrete Mathematics in your senior year.

Now here's where it gets even more confusing. That's the Gwinnet County version, one of the state's largest, most affluent, and highest student achievement areas & what I described is their minimum standards. Thing is, they're higher than the newest version than the state has issued. The state requires the newly named Math I, which integrates a combination of Algebra I, Geometry, some Algebra II, and some Statistics.. The required follow up is Math II, which follows the same Chinese Menu approach, giving a little bit of each. Math III is described as Advanced Algebra/Statistics (but from the more detailed descriptions, looks like 80-90% of it is what I had under the name "Algebra II") and then Math IV is Pre-Calc/Trig/Adv. Stats. And those appear to be the actual "required" courses.

My concern would be about the practical benefit of requiring, say, Trig to masses of students in a country where roughly half the jobs are in sectors such as health care/public assistance + retail + accomodations/food svc + government, and yet in spite of all the seemingly lofty requirements it's still hard to find people in those jobs who can make change without using the register to do it for them. Either there's some sort of disconnect between what is being learned & what is being presented or else we're in such a rush to present these higher concepts that we forget (or intentionally ignore shortcomings in) things like "how to count money of less than $1". Or more likely, both of those things occur.
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