Life after death? Pondering the meaning of life...
 

My daughter is 22 months old. Soon after she was born, I went through something like a 3 week stretch where every night I would lay in bed terrified of death. I laid there scared that I wouldn't get to see her grow up, graduate HS, graduate college, walk her down the aisle. I assume these are probably normal fears that most normal people have, at least I hope so. :D

I went through a stretch where I was beyond this and things got back to normal, mostly. The last few months, I've been doing this again, but not to the same degree. I'm no longer terrified, but I am fearful. I wonder about all sorts of things related to death. I think about things like not wanting to die by drowning, burning, choking, cancer, etc. I think going to bed one night and not waking up is the way to go. Basically, like most sane people, I don't want to see death coming.

I think I have accepted the fact that my existence the way I know it today is going to come to an end. I don't know if I am still scared of it, but I have a better grasp on my feelings. I'm no longer terrified.

Right around the time I was 18 or so, I started about a 5-8 year stretch where I had a lot of anger and anxiety towards life, especially other people. I had a couple of experiences where I lost faith in the value of friendship, love and overall happiness. During this time, I decided that I wasn't going to be any kind of conformist. I was going to have my own opinions. I've always been a very out spoken person. One of the views that I adopted over this time was that God didn't exist. There was no such thing as God, heaven, hell, etc. Religion to me was the biggest hoax in the history of the world.

My attitude has calmed a great deal over the last 4 years or so. I got married, had kids, things like that. Basically, I got the things in life that I needed. I still have a hard time believing that God exists and this leads me to the next part of this whole thing.

In the last few weeks, I have been spending all of this thinking time, while laying in bed, pondering things like what happens when life as I know it ends. Does heaven exist? Is Earth just the first step on a much longer journey? Is Earth really all there is and once I reach the end then am I no more?

With heaven probably being the major afterlife idea in my culture, I get left with the feeling that I don't want to be left out. If heaven is real, then I want to go, but at the same time I have a hard time believing in it.

So, last night, I was struggling with all of these thoughts and I got the idea that I would post them here and see what you guys have to say and see if that could serve as some kind of therapy for me in this situation. I believe that all of the folks that frequent this board are intelligent and I would like to hear what you guys have to say.

I hope this turns into a good discussion. I have a lot more to get into with this.

"I believe that all of the folks that frequent this board are intelligent and I would like to hear what you guys have to say."

My advice would be to ponder that comment instead of the issues of existence. You would make a great philosophy major. In seriousness though, my advice would be to focus more on living in the present.

I, in no way, let this get in the way of my life. These are just what I am thinking about when I go to sleep at night.

I have tried thinking about other things. As soon as I make the decision to go to bed, I immediately start thinking about these things. I'd say it is an obsession except I only think about it when trying to go to sleep.

to live the afterlife is to die. god i love being invincible.

Google "Jessica Simpson Daisy Duke" before you go to bed.

:) Believe me, I have tried a lot of different things to help me with it. Nothing works.

I'm not really worried about not thinking about it anymore. Hell, I don't know what I'm after here. :D

1. Do you have any kind of spiritual belief?

2. To you, who is Jesus?

3. Do you believe there is a heaven and a hell?

4. If you died right now, where would you go? If heaven, why?

5. If what you believe were not true, would you want to know it?

1. I don't think I do. I struggle with this because I don't believe in a higher power. I don't think there is a God.

2. Considering I don't believe there is a God, I don't believe Jesus was the son of God. I think he was someone who wanted to help people and he used that as a way to ensure people would have hope in him. I have much, much more to say concerning this, though.

3. I don't believe there is a heaven and hell.

4. If heaven and hell exist, I believe I would go to heaven. I believe that I have led a morally righteous life. I am dedicated to my wife and kids. I haven't done anything majorly evil to anyone.

5. I guess it would depend on what the truth really was. If what I believe isn't the truth, I guess I'll find that out when I get there, unless the end of life as I know it is in fact the end.

Try contemplating the following: "Everything is Something."

(apologies to those who watch that new Jason Alexander show, which isn't half bad)

The meaning of life is exactly what DeTox said: invincibility. To reach that goal, we spread our genetic material (like Genghis Khan or Wilt Chamberlain).

It is normal to fear death. Heaven does not exist, but I'm considering putting one in for the next FOF version.

Spleen, a similar discussion came up about a year ago. It isn't exactly the same topic, but some of the discussion might be relevant to your question. You might want to check it out:

http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~fof/for...d.php?t=16496t

...This week in FOF bowl, the Heaven Angels take on the Los Angeles Diablos!!...:p

Those are fair and honest answers. With regards to #2, Jesus himself claimed to be the Son of God. Either he was a liar, a lunatic, or he was telling the truth. Just something to ponder... I'd like to share a few Bible verses with you, if you don't mind.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

I have struggled with this at times in my life also. I was born and raised Catholic and attended church, though not always willingly, until I was 15 or there abouts. At that point I decided that I no longer wanted to go to church and put my foot down that it just wasn't going to happen any longer.

Over the last 9 years I still feel very much that same way. I believe that God, Jesus, Jehovah, whatever you believe in are just made up beings that were 'created' to give people some sort of hope or comfort when they were in a time of despair or sorrow, to make living their lives easier to live and to make the thought of dying a little less worrysome since there was something to look forward to, Heaven.

Not religious myself, I often have your feelings spleen, like when my time has come all it will be is a big black space for the rest of eternity... forever.. and that is scary.. just commenting, as I am interested to here other's opinions as well.

Here is a good post from the webonnell in the thread cited

There is no meaning of life, you just live. Find a focus and live for it. Your wife and daughter for example.

I went through something like this after my son was born. He had jaundice and an infection at birth, but other than that has been totally healthy and was a "perfect" baby. For months after he was born, if I would see a special needs child with their parent, I would feel horrible guilty and start crying...I started asking questions like "What did I do to deserve this amazing gift and what did those parents do to be denied so many of the joys that come with being a parent?" It took a lot of soul searching to come to the conclusion that I would never figure it out and life was just what you got, nothing more, nothing less...what makes it amazing is what you do with what you have been given. I started realizing that those parents weren't going through their day feeling sorry for themselves and thinking "Why me?" They had accepted what they had been given and made the most of it, and appreciated what they had because there is always someone worse off than you.

Give your wife and your daughter a big hug before bed, make sure you tell them both every day how much you love them, and don't put off the things you dream of. Live your life and appreciate the small things, don't sweat the big stuff :)

Fear of death is something that we all have to face at some point. Many of the remedies involve some method of self-delusion, and probably only the most cynical can exist without one. My advice is find whatever works for you.

I think that TMT is a very interesting theory. In my own experience, as my agnostic parents are aging, I'm noticing a distinct embrace of conservatism on their part. I think it fits right into soothing their anxieties about death that they seek closer association with their chosen beliefs, to feel a part of something bigger.

As for Christianity, Jesus was a very nice guy. Had a worthy message. Helped people. Died for what he believed in. Nevertheless falls well short of the standard for making a convincing argument that there is life after death. As for the resurrection bit, well, seems reasonable that his disciples were feeling a bit guilty about abandoning him in his most dire hour, especially Peter. What better way to assuage that guilt than to claim that he still lives? A very creative solution to prolong their work and justify their commitment.

I too have pondered about death... I believe that after death you sleep for a little bit( lets say nine months) lose your memories and are reborn. If life is a cycle then the cycle has to repeat... For those who are truely special being they become a part of the universe and help create and destroy life thru out the universe. I dont think there is nothing more perfect then a circle nothing....( I know about a square and triangle but still)

I'll throw my two cents in here, although they may be worth even less. :)

I was never a very spiritual person until I went through a similar situation as you. I got married and had a daughter, and I noticed myself questioning the things that had seemed so simple before. In fact, almost everyone of the answers you posted to FN's questions would have been my own about ten years ago. For me now, however, things are significantly different.

Solecismic says unequivocally that Heaven does not exist. I say unequivocally that it does. I have an absolute faith in that, and it's not something I came to lightly. But the hardest part for me was admitting to myself that faith did not make me unintelligent. It did not make me unquestioning, and it did not mean that I was weaker than everyone else, that I needed religion as some sort of crutch. So many people believe that, and I couldn't disagree with them more. I found, in fact, that having faith was one of the most difficult things I had ever done, and I found in myself an intelligence I had never known before. Not only that, I feel like I found faith because I was strong, not because I was weak.

Now, all of that is simply my perspective, what happened to me. My experiences are probably unlike anyone elses' as are my beliefs, and yours probably are as well. The first thing I would suggest would be to educate yourself on a variety of different viewpoints on death and the spiritual. Read the Bible or any other religious text, and get to know what they all stand for. I promise you you'll be surprised. Often times, the "common" perception of a religion is miles away from its actual teachings.

But, again in my humble opinion, talking about it with people you respect is an outstanding move. Even if you eventually return to atheism or disbelief in any life after death, you'll be a better person for having investigated it and educated yourself. For me personally, once I began to learn about Christ, there was no way I could possibly go back to believing that God didn't exist.

I think that FN's quotes from the Bible are excellent ones. The point, I think, at least behind some of them, is that the Christian belief states that living a good life is not good enough. Nor is simply believing in God. Christians believe that for a person to go to heaven, they must combine good works with an allowance of Christ into their heart.

Again, these are only my own personal views. I don't mean to in any way degrade anyone elses'. In fact, I rarely discuss religious matters on boards because I think it's a very personal thing. I just wanted to offer you one more opinion that may be somewhat different from what some others have said.

So, there's at least a small chance that you're the reincarnation of Yul Brynner? Cool.

Christians have used Christianity as a load bearer for their own greed, prejudice, and power-hunger since it's inception. Hell, it won George Bush this election. The attempted genocide of the Jewish and Native American people is well beyond the amount of evidence I need to prevent myself from ever affiliating myself with Christianity. Yeah, Jesus didn't do it, but he didn't stop it either. If I have to believe in something that has zero evidence of existing, then I'll believe sugar-coated unicorns that I can ride all day long.

Wow I dont even know what provoked this slam... I am offended by what you said...

Just a factual commentary on what you said you believe.

From what I know, Brynner died somewhere around nine months before you were born. Not meant to be a slam. Some who believe in reincarnation talk a lot about who they believe they were in past lives.

Yeah, that Mother Theresa was a power-hungry self-centered bitch, wasn't she?

Mother Theresa=better person than I could ever dream of being. Doesn't sway me, though.

I knew someone would bring the 2004 election into this. Kerry lost. Probably had nothing to do with his wife. People need to get over it.

Not everything about Christianity is bad, but it has been responsible for an awful lot of violence over the last couple of millennia.

I didn't mention the election because my candidate lost, but because religion was used as a tool to garner votes.

I would say that all religions have been responsible for an awful lot of violence over the last millenia. That also shouldn't be the reason we turn our back on it - that's just an easy cop-out. Man is inherently sinful - just because a person does something in the name of religion doesn't make it right.

When you cross man with religious beliefs and values you unfortunately sometimes see that man isn't infallible while the religion remains true to itself.

Personally, setting aside my faith and beliefs about the after life, I'm not scared of dying (certain ways of dying yes, I'd personally prefer the less painful ways of going, but that's another issue).

The meaning of life to me is to make my little corner of the world better for me being a part of it. I work as a graphic artist, and my job realistically doesn't impact people's lives for better or worse on a very large scale, so I try to live each day being as enjoyable to be around as possible. Providing those around me with an extra smile or two a day (even if it's at my own expense), I think makes their lives a little better than if they have to worry about some ogre sitting in the corner that is a pain in the arse every day.

I know if I die today that I will be pretty satisfied with the way that I lived. I'd miss out on a lot (I'm 25, not married, kids, etc), but I'd be happy with what I think I've done for those that have known me while I was here.

The part about what happens after you die, well, that's the old mystery wrapped in an enigma and will probably be an interesting ride when I get there, but I just don't see much of a point in worrying about it too much now as no amount of thought or questioning is going to get me any closer to the answer that I'll find out eventually anyway.

This a decent point. I wanted to say this to counter myself, but didn't out of fear of being long-winded.

Someone find me the Onion article "All Seven Deadly Sins Committed At Church Bake Sale". It's a hoot.

Sure. People sin. Concepts and tenets do not sin. Power corrupts.

Christianity isn't responsible for any of it. Men who have sought to hide their own selfish ambitions behind a misrepresentation of it are.

Why is it I get my ass chewed out around here for saying Islam is a religion that commands its followers to smite those they cannot convert, but it's OK to bash the hell out of Christianity?

Being reincarnated as Yul Brenner would be a good thing Noop. He was cool.

It isn't OK, but whats the point of getting into an argument online.
Islam doesn't hurt people, some Islamic people do. Christianity doesn't hurt people, some Christian people do. Wisconsin never killed anyone, Jeffrey Dahmer did though. Don't generalize and people will take you more seriously, not just you, but everybody.

As for what happens when you die? Man, i picture a giant bed with the greatest sports games ever running on a loop on 200 inch TV and 10 Aimee Sweets there to fulfill every sick and twisted fantasy I have while Wolfgang Puck makes me MCDLT after MCDLT for all eternity. And every once in a while I can get out of bed and spend some time just sitting around bullshitting with everyone I ever loved. Thats how I picture heaven when I'm feeling good. When I get a pain in my side and start to freak out though I picture it as eternal darkness. I think the key is to learn how to not be scared of it, fear begets fear, and the truth is that no one knows for sure what it's like until it's time to go.

Since you like to quote verses, perhaps you could quote the passages in the Koran that support your above statement?

Regarding slamming Christianity, I suspect those that are pointing out the ugly things done in the name of Christianity probably don't have a lot of great things to say about Islam or Judiaism either - they tend to be non-believers in most things religious, not just Christianity.

There'd be a lot less suicide bombers if these guys believed that they would merely cease to exist when that bomb went off :(

When did he died?

Very good point Mac.

That said, those that are willing to commit suicide are often those whose current existence is one of despair - it becomes a lot easier to decide to end your life if you firmly believe that a better one awaits you in the afterlife, rather than work to improve your current existence.

OK.

frankly to me the meaning of life is to not worry about death. when you're living you can't be dying (figurativley speaking) so why even think about it?

amazingly that makes a lot of sense.

Is Hitler's dog in Hell?

hey, when you've had aprox 1400 posts, a few are bound to work.

It's a common myth that the suicide bombers are from poor families. In most cases, they are from families that the Palestinians would consider middle class. No despair. Just hatred and religious fervor, drummed into them (instead of reading, writing and arithmetic) from birth.

Excellent. The cover story is set - the world believes Wisconsin incapable of murder. All is proceeding according to plan.

Now we begin phase two of the plan. :eek:

Dola-


FWIW - that's a pretty good synopsis of Terror Management Theory. For those interested in learning more I recommend looking up some of Jeff Greenberg's work. He's a social psychologist at the University of Arizona who has been doing TMT work for decades.

Actually- if you're interested, the laundry list of some of the things she's done have been exposed - a good woman, but not neccessarily a saint.

This is something that always needs to be cleared up. Christianity has never ever been responsible for any violence in the history of mankind. It is, and always has been the mistake/ignorance/insanity of PEOPLE who use Christianity as an excuse to do horrible things. Now, you can attack the people and the churches and who do horrible things and are responsible for violence, but don't blame Christianity or any other religion, they are just ideas and beliefs that all promote the goodness of people.

Also, some advice. Unfortunatley, I've had a lot of experience with near death or death experiences by peers. And in those hard times I've learned a bunch about the "meaning" of life. It never has been simplier than being there for your family, friends and even strangers. Enjoying life to the fullest in a positive way and trying to be happy and trying to make people around you feel happy. One day, a friend or a family member is going to die and you're going to wish that you would have saw him/her more often and wish that you were nice and generous to him/her whenver you could be. Also, one day your going to die, it probably will be before your daughter if your lucky, and your going to want her to think that she saw you as much as she wanted to see you. Your going to want her to remember you as a great and generous person, a loving and caring father and great husband to her mother because you love her so much. Its all about trying to be the best you can be for those around you. Because never know how short life really is until you almost die or someone you love dies. This probably isn't THE meaning of life, but it is a big part of it.