OT: No White Teacher For Black History
 

Seeing how my last OT post was so well received, what do you think about this?

I think this is another example of political correctness run amok. What's next, Asian-Americans can't teach Western Civilization?

I think it is a respect thing. I don't think a white teacher teaching African-American history would get as much respect from students and the community as would a black teacher.

As an example, if there was a White history class, would a black teacher get respect in the class?

Its a matter of who people think can provide the best perspective on the subject, and I think people would feel a white teacher would have a slanted perspective on this.

And if it is an Asian-American, then they were probably born in America. I'd have no problem. But would students or parents have the same respect for an Asian to teach American history?

"As an example, if there was a White history class, would a black teacher get respect in the class?"

Do you think there could ever be a white history class? I think it would create an uproar that it was a racist thing, but clearly the above story exhibits no racism.

I wouldn't want to learn US History from a Yugoslavian.

There may be other biases that might conflict with the main theme- USA has never been wrong in 227 years. :D

White history classes already exist under a variety of other names.

I do think it's silly that a qualified white teacher couldn't teach a black history class, but - and this is just my guess - I don't think it's a reach to believe most people who study black history as a specialty are black. Thus, it may well be that the individual black teacher in question has a lot more expertise in the subject.

I believe that is what is taught in most high schools in America.... it just goes by the name "World History." It was certainly the focus of my history education pre-college.

You guys are pissing me off now. "I wouldn't want to learn US History from a Yugoslavian." Why??? Assuming you go back in time since this nationality does not officially exist (check your #^!%$ map), a "Yugoslavian" trained at a known university in the US or in Europe (plus at some Asian ones), would know more US history than 95% of teachers and students. WTF would you pigeonhole a person, black or white, Yugoslavian or not, in thinking they are only capable of learning their own culture or history?? "White History Class"? This includes Lincoln? FDR? JFK?Romans? Hebrews?

Why not? I wouldn't.

So you say that it should be a black teacher because they would be better qualified because they are black. I agree. However, should there be a quota of non black teachers teach this just as there are quotas for other jobs and positions? The NFL cant hire the guy they want even if he is the most qualified for the job without at least interviewing a minority canidate. Look at Detroit. Mooch is the perfect guy for that job and Millin gets whacked for $200000. And we hear people bitch all the time that there arent enough black head coaches. What is enough? Obviously there is a magic nimber that must be reached based solely on race, not necessarily coaching ability. Should the same type of mentality be used in this situation where the qualified teacher cant even be considered?

Bullshit. Complete bullshit. Dont even tell me for one minute that world history is a clever way to say white history. WTF? Where did you go to school?

So you say Joe African-American would respect a white teacher teaching Black history as muc has they would if an African American taught it?

I would best my entire future earnings that there would be more complaints leveled against a white teacher than a black teacher.

Same goes for a person coming from a different country teaching American history.

You can be qualified out the ass, but that doesn't mean the students and parents are going to be able to relate to you. Thats nearly as important in this age as the material being taught.

Western Civilization is certainly all about white history, isn't it?

And that's the problem. Why should relating to a teacher make a damn bit of difference?

Let's revisit the gay high school for a moment. I suppose all the teachers there should be gay as well, right?

Hmm.. in that case, I guess we shouldn't have gay teachers at other public schools, since a vast majority of students can't relate to them.

And I guess white kids shouldn't have a black teacher in "World History", since it's only about white history and the teacher can't relate, right?

well, this is really distressing.

I'm thinking my whole sophomore English class was now a waste, because the teacher of that class was native to Zimbabwe. I should just unlearn all the Shakespeare and stuff she taught us.
And, I took years and years of French - only one of those years was the teacher actually Francophone.

Obviously, my education was wrong.

All teachers should be female, with large breastages and HOT...

Dola


Except for those annoying Egyptians, Mesopotamians, Babylonians, slavery in America, the Civil War, the Jim Crow laws, the Civil Rights movement, etc.

No, I know they wouldnt respect the white teacher as much. All I am saying is that there are bullshit rules in place to boost minorities because they are minorities, which completely goes against the so called american policy of not judging by race, color, or religion. And fine, lets say world history or western civ is a white history class. Should a black teacher not be allowed to teach it?

I said that?

Everyone is putting words in my mouth when I didn't use them, I can't be asked to argue on something I never said.

And languages are universal, literature is universal, one could aruge that most forms of history are as well, but national history is less so. The same goes with ethnic or racial history. Would you expect a Jew to teach Palestinian history?

Look, I think it's silly to assume a white person can't teach a black history class, and vice versa (or any race teaching the ethnic history of any other race).

However, there's another way to look at this. And that is that the school is responding to the demands of the parents and students, who are basically its customers. And the customers want the teacher who has taught the class for years to continue. Most organization that know what they are doing try to meet their customers' expectations. Most of the time, schools would get praise for responding positively to the community they serve.

Cam, would you stop stirring up trouble. :D

You're the resident instigator.

I see this more as a specialization issue. Am I qualified to teach all English subjects? Yes. But I teach only Freshman and Sophomores because I have chosen to specialize in those areas. Students who enter my classes know that I have worked with this material, and they are comfortable with me. I don't teach the AP classes (although I'd like to eventually) because I haven't yet sought to work on the material. Is the white teacher qualified? Sure. Has the white teacher specialized in African American history to the extent where the community would be comfortable with it? Depends on the teacher, but I'd say probably not.

Well I have a unique perspective on this subject, so bear with me for the long post here.

I'm a white American male just so you know.

Growing up history soon became my favorite subject and I wanted to be a history teacher when I grew up. I was particularly fascinated by African and Middle Eastern cultures, primarily because we were exposed to so little of it in schools at the time (this is early 80's in New York State by the way) African American history beyond slavery and Martin Luther King was never touched on either, and that intrigued me.

So off I went to college and got a degree in Secondary Ed-Social Studies where I took a lot of classes in Middle Eastern and African history and cultures. Fascinating stuff. When I got to grad school a couple years later, and I finally got to concentrate on African American history and culture. My main thesis advisor was the African-American history professor...and she was a German white woman, complete with accent. Talk about an unexpected experience. But she really knew her stuff.

I got to be her grad assistant my second year there and I assisted with her African American history class. So two white people teaching Black History. Of course we had a number of black students in the class, and no doubt a few were uncomfortable with the situation. I believe one or two students dropped the course, but its been a while and I can't remember. The class went well though, and I think by the end of the semester we had earned their respect.

There background complete. My take on this issue is that I'm bothered that people feel that only a certain nationality is qualified to teach their own history. This is after all history-the majority of teachers teaching African American history today were not alive to personally experience all but the most recent part of it. They get their knowledge from their families in part if they are a black teacher, but in large part by historians and social commentators of the time and the present, who were of all nationalities and colors. None of them have experienced slavery and the racism that exists today is less severe than in any period of African American history-they themselves had little knowledge likely of their own history growing up as it was not a major emphasis in high schools.

Non-black history teachers read those same histories and commentaries and get the same knowledge from them that black history teachers. It may not be the history of their race, but it is the history of the most significant, largest minority in America. That makes them qualified to teach it in my mind-it is after all a part of American history and America is supposed to be one nation united under God right? Non-black teachers don't have quite the emotional connection to black history for sure. But the reason I became interested in African-American history in the first place is because so little of it was taught in my high school, and then when I learned enough of it, I wanted to teach it to others.

In this day and age when efforts to lessen racism are at their strongest, non-blacks wanting to teach african american history ahould be embraced by african americans-as they are truly trying to bridge the gap between the two races. Stories like this only serve to widen the gap a little more. Black people will not lose their sense of self if a white person teaches African American history-both sides can gain an even better sense of each others realities.

There long rambling over-as one who's been there I felt I should add my personal experience. Thanks for bearing with me. :)

There's the rub, you're talking college, this is dealing with high school. People in the general community have a much greater influence over the decisions a school makes. And parents are far more vocal during the high school years than college.

Its not political correctness running amok that keeps a white high school teacher from teaching black history. Its cultural perceptions.

Let me get this straight. A white teacher that teaches Black History wouldn't be respected by the black students. So we ignore the problem of the students not respecting the teacher and just replace that teacher with a black teacher. Instead of letting the white teacher teach the subject and maybe those black students would see that it's possible for a white person to understand the black culture.

Isn't that just fueling the problem and the perception that there is some huge barrier between the races?

In college, we accept an American teaching a class about ancient African history, or Middle East history and so forth. An international professor from Asia is welcome to teach a class in American History if that is a speciality, and so forth. Professors easily teach classes about subject in hich they are experts but not in the category.

I wouldn't want my Terrorism teacher to be a terrorist now, would you? Criminology might not be best taught by a hardened criminal. Same with my Nature of Evil class. Etc. Why is hostory suddenly different in high schools? Let's treat it like we treat subjects in college - io you are qualifed to teach on it, then you are qualified to teach on it, end of story.

-Anxiety

I'm not saying its not. I'm saying this is not a PC issue as was stated in the original post. Its a cultural perception issue.

And I would say more complaints would come from the parents than from the students, agreed?

We treat it differently because high school is different from college. There were teachers in my school who taught math one year, history the next, and gym the next. I don't see that going on in college.

But part of being a professor is being qualified to teach that particular class. The coach of the forensics program is usually going to teach interpersonal communication. Not news reporting, even though they are both in the Communications Department. In the education department, professors specialize in specific areas: management, design, planning, child psychology, etc. In the Math department, the calculus expert isn't normally going to be slumming it in Pre-Algebra.

I wouldn't go as far to call an American history class a "white history" class, but there's an awful bias in American history accepted curriculums and textbooks. I'd noticed this while I was taking a highschool AP American History class, and then reading the book "Lies my Teacher Told Me" by James Loewen fleshed out many arguments I'd wondered about.

There is such a spin to create heroes in American history classes that it's not even actually history. How many teachers will talk about Woodrow Wilson's blatant racism? U.S. involvement in the Russian Revolution? Not only Columbus' brutality, but the extent of his brutality. Not many.

But there are plenty who will tell you how great a man Wilson was, how groundbreaking Columbus was, how bad those nasty Reds were in Russia.

~rpi-fan

Among many, many, other things.

Easy Mac,

Would you define "cultural perception" as opposed to "political correctness"? I'm not sure there's much of a difference between the two, and even if there is, I'd say our cultural perception is a direct result of nonsensical political correctness like this situation.

This is the post I definately agree with most! Last I checked- anyone that isn't a Native American had to have ancestors hop on a boat over here at some point.



And this is the post I agree with secnd most. Tho, a bit more tongue-in-cheek :D

SI

:mad: GRRRRRRRR :mad:

WHO GIVES A FLYING F&@* ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE KIDS WOULD NATURALLY "RESPECT" THE TEACHER??? Again, I'm gonna go back to what Daddy always told me. "Son, I don't care whether you like her or not, but that teacher has got something that YOU need to get, and you need to get it from her." Period. If people instilled that attitude into their kids, this utter bulls$@$ about being "comfortable" would go away like it needs to. The teacher has the knowledge. The student needs it. End of story.

I was taught Spanish for three years by a white American. Guess she wasn't qualified. French was also taught at my high school by a white American.

I took a Poly-Sci class in college taught by a black woman. They weren't allowed to participate in the political process at all until 1920, and the political process is still white male dominated. Guess she wasn't qualified.

At the Middle School around here, Georgia History is taught by a native of Tennessee who has only lived here one year. Reckon she should be out of a job.

I had a woman as my precalculus teacher in high school. Now, EVERYONE knows that women aren't as good at higher mathematics, right? Guess she had no business teaching that class.



Gimme a break.

--Ben

This is my favorite part of article for two reasons:

1.) The "lifestyle" requirement Ms. Cameron applies may be one of the common issue among those deserting (blacks). My experience is that people with direct involvement with a chunk of history are not very objective.

Back in HS in the mid 80 my Senior history teacher was very active in the Anti-War movements of the late 60s/early 70s. Her ability to teach about period from '64 to '75 was so tainted by her personal life that the class stopped being history and started to become an autobiography. Luckily, that was at the end of the quarter, so we only got to spend a couple of days on the period. In my opinion, the students were better off learning nothing that her slanted mess.

--

This isn't to say that blacks shouldn't teach black history, just that this should not "the" factor. There may very well be factors that indicate black students respond better to black teachers (on average).

2.) The Jamaican part cracks me up.

Isn't that EVERY history class except African American history?

no, and that is a pretty idiotic point of view.

Thank you, Fritz! I was kindof silently getting tired of the three or four comments like that and you decided to speak up before I did

But I'll still go on a mini-rant. Calling the English, Germans, French, Italians, and Russians all the same people is just kindof ignorant. Ask the Germans and French how well they like each other. How about the Greeks and Turks? Russia and their kindship with pretty much all of Europe?

EDIT: I slipped up. Noble_Platypus also pointed this out.

SI

Ah, I don't mind being a heavy from time to time.

----
Many history classes are billed as "Western Civilization" and follow the dominant trends in civilization up until America comes onto the scene, and then it becomes much more focused on us with a little on western Europe.

The theme used is one of passing the torch. Egyptians to Greeks to Romans to Western Europeans to America. Historians are drawing a path.

Cultures from Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, and the America's just aren't on that path.

I don't think this makes things about "white history."

By heavy you mean a whiny, immature freak right?

To suggest that the bulk of history taught in the United States is not focused on the doings of Europeans and their descendants shows a complete lack of any knowledge about the topic whatsoever. To call someone an idiot for speaking a truth that makes you unforfortable shows a lack of maturity rarely reached on even this board.

did that make you feel good?

This relates to one of the big debates in my field, should whites direct plays written by blacks. Its been going on for years and can get really heated.

I'm assuming this is Oberlin, OH right? If that's the case this makes perfect sense. Oberlin has a long history, dating back to the underground railroad, of being a racially mixed and shall I say sensitive place. You can't take te local history out of this.

Again I'll ask the question. If that's the case, then isn't it culturally insensitive to have someone other than a Caucasian teach a history class? After all, they're not a part of that culture, so how can they truly relate to the students?

Are you serious? Good lord. Whatever happened to a melting pot, all of us learning from those who are different from us?

"diversity"

Oberlin, Yellow Springs... lots of touchy places in Ohio.

I had no problem learning American History post Civil War from a man who was African and had a heavy Zimbabwean accent. He was an interesting guy.

I also had no problem learning the nuances of Latin American political history from a white-bread Northeastern Catholic who could speak Spanish faster than I can think in English.

I agree with SkyDog on this one.

Hugs? :D

Reminds me of part of a Chris Rock routine, where he talks about taking a Black History class, goes something like:

"Who was the woman who refused to give up her seat on the bus?"

"Are you sure it was a woman? Well let's see, it can't be Martin Luther King....is it Martina Luther King?"

Jesus Christ, this crap is making me crazy.

This is a racist decision. Bottom line.

But it's totally acceptable to be racist against whites.

If it was totally acceptable, it wouldn't be news.

Reminds me of the big contovercy a few years ago with the play "Miss Saigon". Basically, the lead is a Vietnamese character but was played to critical acclaim in London by Jonathan Pryce - white guy.

When the musical was going to be brought over to Broadway there was an outcry of controvercy because Jonathan Pryce was to play the lead here as well. Protests started because supposedly it was "racist" to cast a white man in that role.

Of course, at the same time there were groups lobbying for "non-traditional" casting (to urge directors to cast minorities in roles that are written as white characters). For instance, at the same time the controvercy about "Miss Saigon" was going on Robert Guilloume (Benson - black guy) was playing the Phantom in the Phantom of the Opera.

Both are correct. As a historian, I try to read and understand as much as possible about a time period or event, so it's natural for me to see both sides. History for being what it is, can easily be exclusionary. The Soviets did this for generations, as well as the Japanese. Even in the US, if you pick and choose, US History can be all about white history or black history or women history or gay history or whatever - it's not that hard to do given the immense complexity of history.

I think what some are reacting to here (including me) is the continued tearing down of historical figures. We cannot celebrate the awesome acheivements of the Founding Fathers (or whatever you want to call them) because they were white. Or admire the incredible courage of Columbus because of his brutality. Or the profound vision of MLK because he had affairs. Or on and on. I abhor this. Take history as on its own with all of its complexity, both the good and the bad. It is how we learn about today and tomorrow.

I think this is similar to the ebonics debate where in order to teach certain kids, you have to talk down at their "language". Having a black only teach black history will shortchange the student's education if it becomes exclusionary. This would be similar to a KKK sympathizer teaching Civil War and Reconstruction history. Both happens but can we still tolerate being exclusionary about history or do we tolerate certain exlusiveness but not others?

Just rambling again.

What a joke; yet another example of the double standard that is 'political correctness'.