POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion
 

I know it's not official, but we know so why not.

I've always said Joe has the best chance to beating Trump. Some big policy stuff I don't like from Joe but, overall better than Trump.

Some polls seem to indicate the race is tightening up. Should be an exciting finish.

Perhaps I am being naive, but I just can't see there being enough people willing to sign up for 4 more years of the Trump craziness. I am hoping young people come out and vote because of Dobbs and that puts Trump out of our lives forever as I think if he isn't elected one of these court cases will get him.

That being said the perception is the economy is bad and the world is less safe than under Trump so who knows.

For future reference, Oddschecker.com has it today as:

+130 Trump
+136 Biden

Buckle up

(The rest of the listed candidates makes it seem like Biden dropping out is seen as more likely than Trump doing so).

Predictit has Biden at .53 and Trump at .46

It was pretty close in 2020 and Biden's popularity has tanked since then. He's lost a chunk of his base and is hoping to make it up with Nikki Haley voters. I think the issue is that demographic shifts will likely cost him Arizona and Nevada while his foreign policy is going to tank him in Michigan. It does seem like North Carolina might be in play but who knows (I do think North Carolina eventually shifts blue like Virginia).

The world is definitely less safe during his Presidency. The economy is better though. Problem is that he's too old to actually boast about those accomplishments. One of the issues with putting up an 82 year old man who can't speak publicly much.

Arizona just outlawed abortion through a law that’s 150 years old. I think that drives the young vote and independent women. Trump has also had to have lost some of his 2020 voters through attrition and because of 1/6. Also who are the people that voted Biden in 2020 and are going Trump now. Some people may sit it out but I have to believe when the runner meets the road they will come out and vote against Trump again.

That law is in place while Biden is President. So it's not like he has much power to change it nor interest in doing anything to help. But I think the issue is that he barely won the state last time and the demographics are shifting away from him.

As for your question about who is shifting from Biden to Trump, Hispanics. Nevada and Arizona especially. Young voters have shifted too and I'm guessing many will just sit this election out.

You're talking about states that were incredibly close in 2020. I don't think there's been a single poll with Biden ahead in Arizona in some time. And a lot of them aren't particularly close.

Remember, I'm saying this as someone who does not believe Trump will put it out in November, buuuuut ...

Attrition I'll agree with, but the number of votes lost because of 1/6 is miniscule at most. If anything, 1/6 (or more specifically the legal actions that followed it) might result in a net gain in votes.

Do we have to? Could we, I dunno, just not elect a President this time around?

I couldn't believe Trump was going to get even a single new voter in 2020 after showing every bit of his ass, but he somehow got millions of them. I feel exactly the same now, and the reports of barely attended rallies and court protests make me feel a little better, but otherwise I'm just resigned to the feeling that all predictions and/or indicators are worthless until it's over.

I can't recall what poll it was, but I saw interesting data that showed Biden's lead strongest with those that voted in every election since 2016 and decreasing with every election not voted in. Trump's biggest lead comes with people that never vote.

I think another concern is whether Biden will drag down Democratics in Senate races. He's lagging behind in every state I've seen. Kind of like how Trump dragged down people downballot.


Baldwin is tied or slightly ahead in recent polls.

Marquette Law (A+) Wisconsin polls

June 2023 - �� Biden +9
November 2023 - �� Biden +2
January 2024 - �� TIE
April 2024 - �� Trump +2

— umichvoter ��️‍�� (@umichvoter) April 17, 2024

If this November's election ends up basically just being a re-run of 2020, then I suspect the above narrative is correct.

I'm clinging to the hope that what's really happening with the polls is that Trump continues to be at the peak of his support, since his hard-core support never wavers, and a lot of people inclined to vote Democrat are saying they're not going to vote for Biden to send a message. Then, in November, the latter group will grit their teeth and vote for Biden because they feel the alternative is too terrible, and in addition a lot of people who say now that they're going to vote for Trump are hoping (again) that he'll moderate himself, and when he doesn't, will stay home.

Again, hope, not a plan. I'm assuming the worst happens, of course, which is Trump wins, the Senate goes GOP, Sotomayor dies, and this is the last free national election this country has.


Like so many things, this only matters for the Democrat, as Trump is even worse when he speaks.

Plus, we're not that far removed from the main knock on Obama from the right being that he was too well spoken (and wore tan suits).

I'd still probably put money on Biden pulling it out in the end in a very tight race. I think Trump has benefited a bit from being out of the limelight. And I do think the DNC will be much more organized than the RNC which just seems like a slush fund for Trump at this point. That stuff does matter in very tight races.

But the Middle East is the huge variable in this. If we do get a war with Iran which seems more and more likely, I think Biden is cooked. And we know Netanyahu will do everything in his power to get Trump back.


Biden is the incumbent and has to run on his record. We know Trump is mostly just going to run a nativist campaign and you don't need to be particularly insightful to do that.

It's a huge disadvantage that Biden can't speak about the economy being better since it's hurting him in the polls. Say what you want about Obama, but he'd have been on Jimmy Fallon appealing to suburban voters. He'd be boasting about policy wins at press conferences and events. Having publicized meet and greets with women impacted by the abortion basn. Biden can't do that and thus is unable to control the narrative of his Presidency.

I do hope Democrats don't actually keep doing this nonsense about democracy dying. It's as bad as when they spent years screaming about the Russians taking over our government.

It's just such an empty position and people see right through it over time. Run on abortion or anything else that people might actually believe Democrats care about.

Between the 1864 abortion law and Kari Lake, I'd be shocked if Biden doesn't take Arizona.

yeah it's like hillary's only ad being "don't give trump the nuke codes"

What makes you say this? Every time we have gotten into a war (declared or not), the sitting President gets a significant approval boost for at least a year, the most recent example being the 2nd Iraq War. Precedent is not on your side, but if you think it'll be different this time, I'd be interested in the rationale.


Republicans have literally passed state bills to severely restrict voting rights and are still trying to get bills passed (and past SCOTUS) that would take the direct franchise away from voters and give it to legislatures (in states where they control those, of course).

Do you think they'll just stop this, if they win?


On this I agree, especially running on abortion. Everyone knows what RvW was, and that it was overturned, and you can hammer home the idea (with real examples) that certain states have criminalized a woman's autonomy over her body.

Abortion and reminding people of J6 need to be hammered. Abortion is the obvious one, but J6 still plays well with just about anyone that isn't already voting for Trump. Those 2 issues can also be directly tied to Trump.

I wouldn't put them on the same level as far as what voters care about, but J6 still polls strongly against Trump. Even 60% (it's sad that it's just that low) of Republicans still disapprove of it. It's an issue even my in-laws get really uncomfortable discussing.

Especially if Trump is not only hiding from J6 but campaigning on pardoning all the "patriots."

I think the public has shifted a lot in regards to direct involvement in wars in the Middle East. You cite the 2nd Iraq War, but that became incredibly unpopular by the end of Bush's 2nd term. Obama beat Hillary and McCain in large part to his opposition to the war. Trump bludgeoned Hillary in his campaign over her support of the wars. And Biden made ending Afghanistan a part of his campaign.

Polls show little support for direct involvement too. It's why we've seen a shift toward proxy wars and weapon sales to appease the defense industry.

But most importantly, Iran is no joke. That would be an incredibly ugly war and I don't think there is much support to send Americans off to die for Israel. And a lot of Americans would die.


And the response from Democrats is running an unpopular 82-year old man who is pushing for bills his base doesn't support and is the weakest foreign policy leader since Carter. It's letting Marco Rubio pick your judges. Keeping Senate rules like the filibuster. Letting a dementia riddled Senator hold up the confirmation of judges for months.

Either Democrats don't think democracy is in danger or don't care.


It's kind of the only issue they have. They don't seem particularly interested in any kind of meaningful legislation outside of shoveling money to the defense industry at the moment.

Also war with Iran would bring some severe economic consequences home. If you think Biden took shit for inflation before, imagine campaigning with gas costing an extra $2 a gallon.

Whitmer won this state by 11% just over a year ago.

Michigan polls

2/12 FOX News �� Trump 47-45
2/18 EPIC MRA �� Trump 45-41
2/24 Emerson �� Trump 46-44
3/12 Quinnipiac �� Trump 48-45
3/18 Emerson �� Tied 50-50
3/18 CNN �� Trump 50-42
3/23 WSJ �� Trump 48-45
4/16 FOX News �� Trump 49-46

— umichvoter ��️‍�� (@umichvoter) April 20, 2024

When all is said and done, the experts are going to be absolutely floored by the shift of Black and Hispanic (legal) voters. The Black community identifies heavily with the idea of wrongful prosecution (which most believe is the case with Trump) along with the clear movement of money to help illegal aliens rather than their own communities. The illegal alien shelters being placed in Black communities are also a huge red flag to the people in those areas. You're adding multiple gangs in the illegal alien community to a community that already has gang lines drawn. It's a violent recipe for disaster and the innocent residents in those areas are the ones that pay the price.

Legal Hispanics know exactly what type of people are entering the country illegally. They came here to flee that and don't want any part of that here. They also don't like the fact that they had to work extremely hard to get their place here in this country and now the government is turning a blind eye and just letting people in. That doesn't play well with them.

Democrats know that any movement in these two voting blocks are a huge problem for their election chances.

As opposed to...what other Hispanic voters?

Simply to make the point that the members of the Hispanic community that are here legally that can vote have a MUCH different view on the illegal immigration than those that are here illegally. I think there's a large portion of the US population that thinks that somehow the Hispanic community that is here legally is just opening their arms wide to welcome all the people flooding the border. That's not the case at all. They don't identify with them for the most part.

It's the same phenomenon you see in all different scenarios. As a law school student, the bar admissions process is the most unfair thing ever. However, once you're in the Bar, you don't want to see another person admitted.

This is all vibes-based nonsense not backed up by any data. What polling we have shows a small shift towards Trump, but not the levels you are implying.

"This is all vibes-based nonsense not backed up by any data. What polling we have shows a small shift towards Trump, but not the levels you are implying."

Even with that being the case, a couple of percentage points move in the black voters is devastating to the Democrats. If they don't hit that block at 90%+, they have no hope in winning many swing states. Add that to suppressed votes in the youth demo, I'm just not seeing where the Demcrats hope for success is coming from.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

Well, they'll deserve what they get, then. Trump isn't going to solve wrongful persecution for minorities.

*cough* Central Park 5 *cough*

It's going to be a close election but there's plenty of opportunity for Biden to win. Polling is largely within the margin of error at the moment or so odd in the crosstabs that it's hard to believe. I don't think Trump is going to win the youth vote and I don't think Biden is going to win the old vote.

There's so much time left. I just don't think you can ake solid predictions in a race this close at this point. We know low information voters don't really pay attention until after the summer and they're going to make the difference in the election.

Maybe the disdain liberals like you have for minorities and their issues with Biden is why he is going to lose to such a terrible candidate.

This is just racist fanfic with no data to back it up. Experts won't be floored because it's been something studied and talked about for years.

I'm old enough to remember the right saying blacks aren't wrongfully persecuted, they just commit more crimes. Now that Trump needs their votes it seems to have changed.

Maybe former presidents just commit more crimes than the average person?

Keep driving the wedge there for your ideological masters, comrade.

Genocide isn't a wedge issue. You're saying that if a minority doesn't support the candidate you like, they deserve bad things to happen to them.

That sort of gives up the game. You don't really care about other people. And you don't really have an issue with the right's policies. It's that they have bad optics.

If you choose a candidate that goes against your best interests you have no one to blame but yourself.

The GOP couldn't care less about minorities. Example 1A is the Dobbs decision. The draconian laws the GOP is putting in place will be devastating for blacks in those states.

Just pointing out that a lot of liberals don't actually care about minorities. Even if they don't support your candidate, saying they "deserve" mistreatment makes that clear. You aren't looking to help, just demanding subjugation.

Kind of like the 1994 crime bill which lead to a lot of draconian laws and policies. But as flere said, I guess they "deserved" it for electing the Senator responsible for it.

You need to use some nuance, especially with a common phrase. No one is saying they deserve mistreatment. They are saying if you vote against your interests you have no one to blame.

Same goes for the Muslim community in Michigan. Enjoy the Trump muslim ban and deportations.

What if their interests are in preventing a genocide? It may be a foreign idea to some, but people do vote for the interests of others too.

Beyond the weird racist screed by limelicker, there is actually polling and studies that have been done on why the minority vote has shifted. Well shifted isn't the best word as there aren't many people shifting conservative, it's more that those who voted Democrat are just not voting at the same level which skews the number toward Republicans.

But the gist of the studies are that older minority voters have been and still are incredibly loyal to Democrats. They grew up in the Civil Rights Era and saw Democrats do things for them. They saw politicians sacrifice their own political futures and even lives for them.

Democrats have just assumed that would carry on forever. But young voters have different priorities than just civil rights. There are concerns about the economy, policing, health care, housing, etc.

Now the current position of the Democratic Party is to tell those people to shut up and vote or you'll get something worse (the sentiment from many in this thread). A sort of gun to your head approach to keeping those voters in line. But that's not working with younger voters anymore and I don't think the party is prepared for it.

You can also look at the opposite approach by someone like Whitmer. She made a huge effort to fix the infrastructure and removing lead water pipes in a number of communities. She expanded health care, school lunch programs, and day care assistance. Rebuilt a ton of dying roads, got auto insurers to issue refund checks, and increased tax credits to families. She won the state of Michigan by 11% in a midterm year.

Basically I think Democrats should act more like Whitmer. Listen to the concerns and do something about it. Not the current approach of demanding subservience or else. We'll see which approach works in November.

This "genocide" was still going on when Trump was president, and there is nothing to suggest that he would end it. So why do you have such a hard-on for Biden on this issue when it has plagued all presidents for the last 30-40 years?

A lot of these things the dems did try and do and the GOP tanked or nuked them.

GOP got rid of child tax credit, free lunches, tried to kill ACA, voted against infrastructure then took credit for projects they voted against, scoff every time child care comes up, etc...all the while putting laws in place that will cause a huge spike in infant mortality rates and mothers mortality rate/ complications but tell me more about how much they care about the people in Gaza...

Your holocaust denial not withstanding, Biden is the current President and the genocide has ramped up immensley under his Presidency. It's a central part of his administration. Trump is not the one illegally sending weapons and going against his base right now.

But if it helps, I'm not voting for Trump. I'll criticize and have criticized his foreign policy too.

Dems had control of the House and Senate during his first 2 years. Him being unable to do any of that stuff despite control over Congress is not the winning endorsement you think it is. Just makes him seem soft and weak.

Worth noting that Whitmer was able to pass all that stuff mentioned earlier with a razor thin margin in their legislature. Same for Walz in Minnesota.

You're the one cheerleading for this POTUS candidate.

You clearly want Trump to win, so it can send a message to Democrats. All the collateral damage to, well, everyone, appears to be worth it to you.

I don't want Trump to win and I will not be voting for him. Neither major candidate is interested in my vote and that's fair. Candidates can cater to the voters they want.

Biden and Trump now at the same likelihood (90%) of getting their nominations on PredictIt.

Rumors of him sleeping and farting his way through his first criminal trial have brought Trump's numbers down a bit.

Trump's numbers are inflated by people who are pro-Trump but haven't voted in the past few elections. He needs to turn those folks out, but closing all of the RNC offices isn't going to help with that.

This shaping up to be a weird election and it's going to be interesting to see how accurate the polling is. Polling nationally in 2020 was pretty accurate but way off in some states. I've seen some recent polling that shows exactly what you're saying here. Biden is showing a rather large lead with people that are known voters.

RFK Jr's defense of his time with Epstein isn't helpful.

Considering what he did to his second wife, none of those names are a surprise.

Haley got 155k votes in the PA primary yesterday. That can’t be a good sign for Trump.

I'm more interested in how this thread will explain that it's actually worse for Biden.

It certainly isn't good for Trump.

But protest votes in primary elections tend to come home in the general. Once these Haley voters have had to endure 5 months of "Remember, Biden has a D next to his name" ads, they'll end up voting Trump.

I'd love to see an honest breakdown of how many of those 155K people voted for Biden in 2020.

lol at the timing of this after what's transpiring today at college campuses.

From 538.

https://abcnews.go.com/538/trump-lea...y?id=109506070

So in other words, a long ways to go yet.

New swing state polls dropped.

���� US election poll

Wisconsin

Trump: 48%
Biden: 44%

Arizona

Trump: 49%
Biden: 42%

Georgia

Trump: 49%
Biden: 43%

Michigan

Biden: 47%
Trump: 45%

Pennsylvania

Trump: 47%
Biden: 46%

North Carolina

Trump: 51%
Biden: 41%

Nevada

Trump: 51%
Biden: 43%

(Bloomberg)

— The Spectator Index (@spectatorindex) April 26, 2024

This Is Fine.

Biden was up 6 in national polling on Trump on April 27, 2020.

I'm perfectly willing to be wrong here, but those numbers seem like ceilings for Trump and floors for Biden.

Noem has Old Yeller'd herself out of the VP discussion, yes?

I don't think she was under serious consideration, but that's probably the final straw for her.

I think the pick all along was going to be someone low key and willing to do the dirty work on policy, etc while Trump makes headlines. Tim Scott or Donalds are the favorites IMO. Noem isn't low key and doesn't seem to interested in policy either.

I still think it'll be a woman, albeit one who is quiet. There is no chance they nominate a closeted gay black man as VP.

I keep wondering what step 2 is for Noem here. I assume she was trying to promote her gun ownership and NRA cred, but good lord does it make zero sense to brag about killing a dog.

Fascists are weird people and say and do weird things that they think others find normal.

I always thought Noem is too camera thirsty for Trump. He hates dogs, though, so this is obviously aimed at trying to appeal to him. She can be hated by everybody so long as he picks her. Like all of the VP hopefuls, she wants the job desperately because she's sure Trump is going to die in office.

Pretty funny. Personally, I don't get it but it is what it is.

CNN Poll: Trump maintains lead over Biden in 2024 matchup as views on their presidencies diverge | CNN Politics
Considering all the handouts & pork he's given out, this is pretty atrocious ROI.

Where the heck are all the charging stations, infrastructure stuff, rural internet connectivity etc. If they are out there, Mayor Pete sure is doing a crappy job of bragging about it.

I can see this. Personally, he hasn't done much for me on health care or student debt.

This is a tough one. Go for the younger votes or hold fast.

What matters to the Dems & Republicans.

To me, it's squarely in the narrative of the "we're real Americans from the country and none of you liberal coastal elites would get it" thing the GOP has going on. She just (maybe) took it a little far. I say maybe because all of the "conservative" pundits who are shelling her on twitter are the same people who have been booted from the GOP over the past 8 years. They don't matter to today's Republican party.


Trump made it OK for people to say whatever they want, wherever they want, not matter how vile, crude, or simply misjudged it is.


I give it a day before someone is calling her "authentic" for this, which is indeed what she's already doing in her defense:



Of course, the real story should be that she's apparently so terrible with guns that she couldn't kill a goat in one shot at point blank range and had to go back to her truck to get more shells.

Agree on Trump. I think the difference is that Trump is actually entertaining. He has a weird charisma and can be funny. The other fascists just come across weird and don't understand what makes Trump unique.

You also nailed it. The precise word "authentic" is used in her response. Nice call.

It's because the bill put the onus on the states to implement them and most states haven't even started soliciting bids to install them. You're building a nationwide network with 48 states all having to build them separately but also meet the national standards required.

Looks to me more like Biden is just doing worse this time around.


Most people aren't going to vote on that stuff. This would be a better nation if they did, but they don't.

Also, most of the red state-type places want this to fail. Nothing gives these southern republicans more wood than saying how much electric cars have failed and will never be useful (that and controlling women's bodies). I think they would prefer coal-powered cars just because..AMERICA! Seriously, people down here vote down light rail because they are afraid of the poor people coming to their neighborhoods. When I lived up north, I never saw hoards of gangs on the train from Montclair back to the city or Newark with their spoils.

Even if the feds paid for the rail and gave GA the revenue and it created a million jobs, they would say no.

As far as I can tell, you just have to drive to Meijer in Lexington and spend an hour tooling around the store while your car recharges. That is, if it's not winter when you might not make it to Meijer before your battery dies.

EV has a really bad narrative right now. I say "narrative" because I don't own one and am only going off of things I've been told by people I know (like friends and neighbors) and stories in the news (like the Ford CEO who admitted to a "reality check" trying to drive his EV pickup across country).

I had considered one for my next car, which I'm guessing will be no earlier than 2026. But now, I'm probably only interested in a hybrid, if that. I drive an hour both ways to work twice a week. No way am I interested in voluntarily adding the stress of possibly needing to juice up just to get home from work in January/February. They're going to have to make some big strides to improve things to change minds. And I consider myself pretty open-minded about EV, but from what I read/been told, it can be a big hassle depending on your use case.

The light rail part is true. Georgia fights any kind of public transit for blatantly racist reasons. But there isn't a governor Democrat or Republican that loves electric cars more than Governor Kemp. He has championed the opening of multiple EV plants in the state, including car and parts manufacture. As for charging stations, they are going up everywhere around me, and I would be a little surprised if the backwater butt-hole of the metro area is leading the charge (pun intended) on them. We already had the ones at Target in Conyers that are rapid chargers, but we also have the city of Covington put in multiple rapid charger along with a compressed natural gas station in the new Town Center area. They are also just finishing 12 Tesla charging stations right behind the QT on the next entrance down from Town Center. It seems like every new business parking lot has a couple put in. They are becoming more and more common.
I already mentioned a friend who has had an EV a couple of years. They love it. They have traveled around the bit in it, not cross country but around the South for sure, and he said it really hasn't been that hard finding charging stations. At times you have to plan ahead because rapid chargers can be harder to find, but the car has a built in app to help you find places.

They do seem to have a bit of a "oh, this is too hard - I'm not going to bother" new tech stigma. And of course plenty of folks who want to beat it down.

My wife would be ok with a hybrid I think -- she's worried about long trips, like the one we take every couple of months out to Indiana. For regular about-town travel, I think one would be fine - her drive to work is like 2 miles, and I don't drive to work anymore (the Veloster mostly just sits). For us it's mostly just "holy !!! who can afford a new car?" I mean, we should be able to (our combined income is certainly not bad), we just have many other things to pay for. So we've bought used, and it only seems like now that EVs are emerging in the used market.

A coworker has a Tesla, and a college friend had one a while ago (don't know if he still has it). The former I know had a charging plug/station put in in his garage.

I want to be green and embrace the technology, but it just doesn't make sense for our lives given our location. I will definitely be getting hybrids with our next round of cars, but living in (relatively) small town WV, I don't drive far enough on a regular basis to justify the expense. My morning and evening commute of dropping and picking up my youngest and going to and from work is less than 3 miles total. My wife now works from home like 95% of the time and if we travel any distance it will be outside the range of most EVs and I feel like it would be a pretty big inconvenience to stop to charge.

If I still lived in NC, I think I would probably consider owning one EV because my commute was close to 100 miles round trip per day and then keep one hybrid, larger vehicle to do trips in.

Interesting data on how RFK Jr could hurt Trump.

We finally got a poll on how RFK Jr.'s vaccine views could play in 2024.

-Half of Republicans are unfamiliar with them. 4 in 10 Dems are unfamiliar.

-When informed about them, the % of Republicans who say they'd consider RFK nearly doubles.

-The % of Democrats who say they'd…

— Aaron Blake (@AaronBlake) April 30, 2024

dola

A shame both of them are the same.

Personally I think this sounds very bad. https://t.co/sU74j3yF3P pic.twitter.com/i8TxdTXxGa

— Matthew Gertz (@MattGertz) April 30, 2024

Ah, let's give him another chance. What's the worst that could happen?

But Biden is old and likes ice cream.

Lots of peoples faces are going to be eaten by leopards.

There is the whole genocide thing.

At least the Senate is looking good.

Latest Emerson polls

Arizona �� Trump +4
Michigan �� Trump +1
Nevada �� Trump +1
Pennsylvania �� Trump +2
Wisconsin �� Trump +2

Arizona �� Gallego +2
Michigan �� Slotkin +2
Nevada �� Rosen +8
Pennsylvania �� Casey +4
Wisconsin �� Baldwin +3

— umichvoter ��️‍�� (@umichvoter) April 30, 2024

The best case scenario would be him sleeping through 4 years like he is his trial.

He now sits in court with a meaningless stack of papers to go through and can't be left alone by his own attorneys during sidebars because he falls asleep if left on his own for 5 minutes.

In a Trump Administration, the genocide will be much closer to him, so at least you'll be able to see it up close. Who knows, you might actually take up arms and try to do something about this one!

You'll be able to go back to pretending genocide is bad if he gets elected instead of defending it. Just like all the other bad stuff Trump did that suddenly wasn't an issue when a Democrat took office.

Shouldn't the anger be with Biden who would probably win by just not giving a genocidal far right government billions to commit genocide? Beating Donald Trump should not be hard.

I don't think that issue is going to move the needle much on Biden winning or not.

I'm not saying it shouldn't, I just don't think it will. Look at the list of important issues to people in both parties, one example being the recent post by Edward64. Israel/Gaza, and for that matter Ukraine, does not rank highly for most people. They're more concerned with domestic issues like gas prices being 25 cents higher than they 'should be'.

Those issues rank incredibly high for the Biden administration.

I agree with you, foreign policy is not a sustainable Top-5 issue. Sure, it heats up but other more pressing stuff happens. I do think this is a vocal minority, and in 1-2 years it'll peter out and regulated into the Social Studies books like Occupy Wallstreet, BLM, and defund the police protests.

But I can see the younger folks cutting off their "nose to spite their face". I can easily see another flareup in Sep-Oct. I doubt they'll vote for Trump, but they may not vote or vote for a third party, and therefore diluting Joe's margin.

I'll say again. I support people's rights to vote third party. But if Trump wins, they cannot absolve themselves from helping Trump win by not voting for Joe.

That last part I disagree with. The people helping Trump win are the people actually supporting him (voting for him, donating, making arguments in favor of him, etc). Not supporting him by voting for someone else means exactly that.

Keep fucking that chicken as if the guy who wants a full Muslim ban is going to be a champion of the rights of the Palestinians.

How about this ...

I'm not voting for Trump. Take it up with the people who are or the candidates who somehow lose to him.

Why would someone vote for a candidate who clearly doesn't want their vote? These are candidates, not lords. This isn't a serfdom you desire.

As with all elections, candidates choose their voters. We shall see how their decisions turn out in November.

In the real world, candidates want anyone that votes for them, even from people that disagree with them.

Biden's thing has been to tell people to vote for the other guy. He's been doing it since he got into politics. How do you know so little about these people?

Biden tells voters 'don't vote for me' if they're concerned about his age | Fox News

Joe Biden tells immigration activist, 'You should vote for Trump'

Biden tells Des Moines activist 'vote for someone else' in tense exchange

You continue to live in a different reality from me.