Trump Indictment/Trial thread-2023
 

Okay now that they have been revealed, lets move the discussion to the new thread.

Honestly, one of the first things I'd do if I had a time machine is to take a bunch of 80's "Republicans are the party of Law and order" folks to the modern day, and show them these quotes. Just to watch their heads explode.

Again, if you had someone say "This is secret. I could've declassified it but didn't, so it's still a secret" about a plan to attack a foreign nation in a TV show, no one would buy it because people aren't that DUMB to incriminate themselves so casually.

But they are.

What level of classification is so secret that the level had to be redacted?

Probably Codeword related.

FFS

Gobsmacking. Trump gift-wraps every element of the crime in about a 20 second conversation. pic.twitter.com/rOw6RIX6xK

— Radley Balko (@radleybalko) June 9, 2023

Good lord that indictment is about as damning as you'll ever see. Average citizen would spend the rest of their life in prison if they did that.

But Obama once jaywalked and didn't get a ticket, so Trump should obviously go free.

Any that use a codeword. They've had to change classification codewords multiple times because they keep leaking. I think Clancy leaked some by using them in one of his books at one point, IIRC.

But her emails!

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/s...67938141466630

Also, you know the stuff is incredibly top secret when even the control is being redacted.

Going on record. Not only will he do zero jail time he will get off scott free. No chance there isn't at least one die hard MAGA on that jury who will wreck things.

By contrast to the leftist-dominated FBI we know that wokeness has already been killed in Florida, where woke goes to die, so this South Florida federal grand jury is 100% certified non-woke. https://t.co/qazdLEGIHP

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) June 9, 2023

*sniff*
Always special when our threads grow up and have a thread of their own.

You just keep moving the goal posts on this-before it was the DOJ will never indict him, which now has happened, so maybe have a little faith.

heh

"When a mommy thread and a daddy thread really love each other, then...."

I don’t recall saying he won’t be indicted but also don’t doubt I would. I’m not moving the goalposts. I have stayed perfectly consistent every time this comes up. It’s not about where in the process he slithers away, it’s about the fact he will never be held accountable. So far Ive been correct.

I admit I did not see an indictment for this coming months ago. What happens next is anyone's guess. I still find it hard to believe he'd end up in prison, even though that indictment is incredibly damning. This could drag on for years and years.

So many variables in play. You need just one fervent supporter on the jury. Or a judge he appointed.

If the rumors about him being charged for J6 and in Georgia for election interference, I could even see him just leaving the country altogether.

Asa Hutchinson has called for Trump to leave the race "for the good of the cluntry." Not a surprising Republican to do that, but at least there is one.

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It does look like the indictment in Georgia will drop sometime during the first 2 weeks in August. From what I read the prosecutor there has asked for no trials to be added those weeks, for extra police in the area between the court house and her office during that time period, and has told her staff they'll be teleworking in August.

As someone who was one of those people in the 90s and to a lesser extent still am, I'll state for the record that I want Trump prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law on this stuff, and yesterday.

Of course, I didn't vote for him anyway and you're right about how most of those who did will react, but whatever conservatism used to stand for, one of those things is you don't tolerate this kind of nonsense in any way, shape, or form. My brother mentioned today that his new campaign slogan should be Make Trump Immune Again.

As a Fulton county resident, I want no part of being on that jury.

Reagan and others in his administration committed treason. Far worse crimes than Trump is accused of. They let bankers run wild for decades committing financial crimes.

The law and order party was always just a dogwhistle. They don't mean law and order for themselves.

Wife and I at dinner tonight were discussing this. She isn't a big political person but is wicked smart. She asked about him being a flight risk. How can he not be, dude has his own plane and unlimited resource. That being said as the leading republican candidate they can't exactly jail him or put him under house arrest.

It really is crazy because if that was any of us we would be behind bars awaiting trial.

He’s not going to run to Russia. Running is admitting defeat. He does not back down. He doubles down.

https://twitter.com/McJesse/status/1...lIncJK0Bg&s=19

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Thats amazing

please show your work

I felt a little dirty about it, but I went to FoxNews.com, just curious what the headline story would be, and its was a recap of some analyst's appearance on the network saying that "the other prosecution was just a political hackjob, but this one is a different story and serious and damning shit".

:banghead:

Tweeted it!

Yeah Ari Melber showed several clips of him yesterday during campaign rallies saying that about classified information. I guess no one but him because he is the law.

Putting aside the charges for a moment, the tweets by Trump, Biggs and Higgins that I've seen should be throwing up red flags everywhere. They are very J6-like and take a military tone. I'm sure people will just blow it off as cosplay and riling up the rubes, but regardless of what anyone thinks of Trump or these charges, the fact that after J6 we have Congressmen publicly making those kinds of statements is insane to me. And they do it because they know they have no accountability. It's all upside for the grift/true believer engagement.

Edit: and of course I see Kari Lake has joined in the "fun."

Wow. Disney+ changed the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark... pic.twitter.com/JWWLTs9CYt

— Jesse McLaren (@McJesse) June 9, 2023

I've been reading some analysis of the indictment. It sounds like what Jack Smith did is lawyer porn. A lot of attorneys I've seen comment on it are impressed with how thorough, detailed, and well written this indictment is while keeping it easy to read and understand from a general public perspective. I've also seen multiple comment on how easy to prove a case like this is and how Trump is very likely screwed unless we get some judge or jury weirdness.

The J6 stuff is going to be much more difficult to handle from an indictment and getting a jury to understand the specifics of it standpoint. They really need Meadows' cooperation there.

This should be the answer for anyone that asks "Why Trump and not Hillary or Pence?"

“the indictment does not charge Trump with the illegal retention of any of the 197 documents he returned to the archives.” This point should be the first thing you say to a MAGA on the topic of the indictment.

— Indicted Donald (@indicteddonald) June 11, 2023

That sounds too exhausting to even attempt.

If you talked to a MAGA, you should just make shit up about Trump. It's not like they're going to fact-check anyway.

"He made it so that 1/3 of social security payments now go to people in Russia."

After bunch of GOPers get on record with their "political prosecution is bad" talking point, Tricky Don changes the script and is now arguing that political prosecution is good, actually:

A little forced in places but amusing

dola- MAGAs really do make it so easy to mock them.

God I hope this happens

It's all fantasyland talk of him going to jail, but you know Trump would be talking so much shit, holding court with all of these prisoners, promising things, etc. He'd make the most of the situation and, if he can't be King of America, he'll crown himself King of Cellblock A.

Sounds like Trump is having a really difficult time finding an attorney to represent him on this. David Markus turned him down, although I'm not sure what made Trump think he'd be interested to begin with.

I'd represent him and take the loss...but then again whoever fails this trial will get attacked tho.

But seriously...they should just appoint him one.

"If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appoi..."

"Oh, he can afford one. They just can't afford to have him as a client."

I don't. It's inhumane to treat anybody that way, including people we Really Don't Like.

I'm on the side of thinking the smart thing, from a purely self-preservation standpoint, would be for Trump to leave the country. I'm not confident in him realizing that though, and I don't want it to happen anyway.

Trump: I need an attorney.

Firm: Ok. Here's what retainer we'll need.

Trump: I'll pay that later. Trust me.

Firm: (Hangs up)

I thought Todd Blanche was handling this since the two DC attorneys stepped down.


Edit: Now I see what is going on. They need someone from the local, and they can't find anyone.

I just saw Trumpers referred to as the Chucklefuck Mafia and I can't stop laughing.

Chris Kise is going to be the lawyer from the local bar. They are still shopping for a bigger local name.

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Is everyone ready for the maganuts to storm the castle tomorrow?

Like they say, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

That would be admitting that he lost, and he's incapable of that.

No chance he takes a deal. He will go to trial and delay through the election.

So if the MAGA Trumpanzies go nuts tomorrow with a 1/6 type event or one of them starts shooting does it help or hurt Trump?

I've been thinking about the same thing. Violence is never popular.

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You guys remember J6 right? And who is the front runner for the Republican party?

They are counting on violence.

That hasn't won them elections, though. Independents, moderates, soccer moms. These are not groups that respond well to violence.

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there's SO MUCH IRONY in that song considering it was the Baretta theme :)

At this point he pretty much has to. His most likely way to avoid punishment is to either shut down the prosecution or pardon himself.

I understand what you are saying, but Trump barely lost the last election. When all was said and done, things tipped via Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona and Nevada right?

The violence will seek to intimidate most voters. As things ramp up, there will be more and more rhetoric to violence. You have people in goverment who are all for it. If things spill over tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar that voting areas in battleground states will be targeted, if not just checking voter registration and intimidating voters at their home.

I think you'll find the rhetoric now is that if Trump is actually brought to trial, people will be hunted and killed. I knew there would be violence J6 and I'm sure tomorrow will be the start of targeting opposition to Trump and MAGA.

Trump/MAGAT is an ideology that is just begging for bloodshed. If death happens tomorrow, government supporters to Trump will escalate it as a call to arms. There is no de-escalation with the MAGAT ideology, there is only a doubling down.

Ramping up the violence will come with a severe backlash. It will not end as good thing for the MAGA movement. That may be what they hope for, but that will not be were it will go.

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If there is violence in the name of Trump I wonder if he loses the religious right.

The whole Thou Shall Not Kill thing seems pretty important to them

Are you being sarcastic?

I assume so


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MAGA people already gathering outside the courthouse.

I have seen enough MAGATs flying the Trump 2024 Revenge flags to know who the revenge is for, and how it will be dispensed out.

They want to intimidate/discourage/violate the regular voter and they'll do anything to subvert question the vote.

They really do want to start killing people, Trump being incarcerated would be enough I think. They don't believe any other candidate is worthwhile, it really is Trump or death.

I agree with that. I don't agree with 23-hour-a-day isolation being an appropriate punishment for any crime.

So he should be free to spill state secrets?

IMO if he is found guilty he should be executed for treason.

I would suggest reading up on what treason is. This isn't that. Are you saying you think we should execute people who don't commit capital crimes because we think they did something that *should* be?

I don't necessarily agree with that, but I do think you're right that Trump is probably spilling secrets wherever he goes and sticking him in prison probably puts all those secrets at even more risk.

I know what treason is.

Are you so naïve as to think he hasn't used those documents to leverage shit with the Saudis and other bad actors?

apparently a judge has ruled no cell phones allowed in the court room so details will be slow coming.

We don't know what he's done in that area. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the indictment doesn't address that. Even if it had, that would still not be treason.

My point is that if he's found guilty of the crimes in the indictment, I think he should be given the punishment the law stipulates for those crimes. Unless i'm misinformed, that's 10-20 years maximum for the worst of them. That would mean Trump dies in prison if convicted.

We can hope

OH NO! He's going to tell Hayden Christenson?!?

Watching coverage of outside the courthouse. So far 2 things stand out.

These people who support him are sick. Like, really mentally ill.

Currently Trump supporters and protesters are intermingling. So far seems somewhat peaceful, but if they are still intermingled when more people show up and the likes of Kari Lake start whipping them into a frenzy it could get bad.

It is the subset of supporters who are going to come out for this.

The most frustrating part of this for me is reading and listening to the takes of people that have absolutely no idea how document classification/declassification works.

It's really hard to believe that 10 years ago Kari Lake was a likeable, tolerant person, who was one of the most popular newscasters in Arizona. Delusion and greed are powerful drugs.

I read an editorial this morning that basically reduced the entire thing to an administrative issue. "

Like if trump parked in a no parking zone, or jaywalked. That all sorts of politicians get dinged for admin issues, and that at worst, this whole thing should only amount to a 'slap on the wrists' but here we are"

He and Walt Nauta are officially under arrest

Sounds like the "media will outnumber protestors" predictions were right (or close to right).

Never not been about crowd size with him.

Just heard one of the Ohio senators say they will refuse to vote on any of Biden’s DOJ nominations to grind the justice dept to a halt. These people are deranged.

J.D Vance. He said he is going to put a hold on all nominees, which means he won't allow a vote.

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But the folks that did show up are gems, exhibit A talking about Judge Cannon


Last time I think he 'won' was 2016, which is a long time ago my man.

There needs to be guardrails against shit like this.

And he's back to claiming the DOJ planted the classified documents that he was allowed to take because he declassified them.

Wasn't someone around here arguing that JD Vance was one of the "normal" ones?

I would imagine the prosecutors didn't go that way because it would be harder to prove, but it's not exactly a secret that Mar-a-Lago has been awash with foreign agents: Mar-a-Lago a magnet for spies, officials warn after nuclear file reportedly found | Mar-a-Lago | The Guardian

How many foreign agents saw or stole (or were shown by Trump) sensitive national defense documents?


"Aid and comfort" to the nation's enemies could very well include furnishing them with sensitive national defense documents. Arguably. Regardless of which part of the Constitution or U.S. code you want to refer, the point is that his actions with these documents (even the actions described in the tape transcripts alone) are potentially ruinous for our intelligence apparatus and that of our allies. Frankly, it should be a hanging offense.

Ethel and Julius Rosenberg were executed for basically this, though the charge there was espionage.

he's even the one who explained that being pro-Trump took over everything else including reality

I think you are referencing something I said where the context was in comparison to other candidates, Oz, Walker, et al.