"Matrix: Reloaded" first thoughts
 

Well, I just got home from the press screening of "Matrix: Reloaded", and I have to say, it was good, but not great. The effects, as usual, are incredible; the car/motorcycle chase scene is probably the best chase scene ever. However, the first hour of the movie seemed to drag. There was a TON of backstory presented, which was interesting, but caused the movie to advance very slowly. But there are a ton of new plot developments, so many in fact that it is almost difficult to keep up with them all. By the end of the movie you have an almost entirely different perspective on the Matrix and some of the movie's characters. Also, it just seems to end too abruptly, and something that seemed relatively major to the plot (which I won't discuss here for obvious reasons) seems to be glossed over in the last five minutes. Overall, I would give it a B, whereas I would give the original an A/A+. Not bad, but not as good as I had hoped.

Spoilers requested. :)

But that would be cheating ;)

So?

Yeah, so what. I am going to see it after the initial boxoffice rush. Probably in a week or 2, but spoilers don't really bother me, in fact, I enjoy having things spoiled for me. Sick, I know.

Ok, fine here are a couple of spoilers, don't say I didn't warn you.....





*******SPOILER ALERT********




As you probably know there are now many Agent Smiths on the loose. One thing he now has the ability to do is take over someone's "body" in the Matrix and go back into the real world, taking over their body there as well. He does this to try and get Neo, unsuccessfully in "Reloaded", but it will be a huge storyline in "Revolutions".

Towards the end of the movie, it appears that Neo will be able to use his powers in the real world, not just the Matrix.

Neo brings Trinity back to life after she is shot and apparently dies. This was also the cheesiest part of the movie IMO.

And the big kicker...

Neo meets the 'Creator' of the Matrix. We learn that the current version of the Matrix is actually the sixth Matrix, and Neo is actually the sixth 'One' who tries to stop it. Each time it ends with the destruction of Xion and the recreation of the Matrix. It's a very complex part of the story and I would have trouble explaining it here, but essentially Neo is given two choices, guarantee humanity's survival or go back into the Matrix to save Trinity, and risk humanity's demise. You can probably guess which one he chooses.

There I hope everybody is happy :)

french character = laughable

Eh... chalk this one up as another "Disappointing Sequel"

God Help you if you spoil the movie for me .

Gotta resist looking at spoilers...


So difficult

dola-

Is it as good as the first one?

Not in my opinion. The first hour or so was, as I said before, somewhat boring, and the plot and its twists were somewhat convoluted. The action scenes were really good though. I guess if you are a huge fan of the Matrix backstory, you will be in heaven. The opinions of people who saw it today seemed to range from it was ok to not very good; I didn't really anybody say it was great. Also, a disclaimer: if you've never seen the original, don't see this one yet. See the original one first. One of the guys I saw it with never saw the first one, and he absolutely hated this one.

Edited to help explain myself a bit better.

I'll have to see it for myself to find out and make my honest decision .

A friend of mine who reviews movies for a local rag said the same thing. It was ok, but not up to the level of the first one. He also said he expected a lot of people wouldn't be able to follow some of the twists.

Not many sequels live up to the original, so I am not expecting as good of a movie.....

Bingo. I'm not the smartest person in the world, but definitely not the stupidest, and I've never had problems following the plot in complex movies. That being said, a couple parts of the movie could have been easier to understand had they handed out a chart or graph before the movie started ;) I'm sure there will be some people who get lost with the plot.

I've heard a lot of mixed reviews. After watching the final trailer, I was a little worried about the movie because the only thing in the trailer was a bunch of kung-fu action. It's great that it stil has a lot of bang-up action, but that wasn't the only reason I loved the movie. Have you guys downloaded The Renaissance Parts I & II at www.theanimatrix.com ? Both of those are free downloads that describe the history of the Matrix and might make the history part a lot easier.

watch the first one again. i truly believe they NEVER intended to make a sequel, and as such, really scrambled for another story.

Actually, the Matrix is a lot like Star Wars in the fact that both creators originally had a trilogy in mind. However, neither of them were sure that the first movie would be successful enough to warrant sequels, so they made sure the first movie was self contained.

It does make the job harder for the sequel. Empire Strikes Back was not as well received when it first came out because of its striking difference in tone. Nowadays, it is often considered the best of the three originals. Matrix Reloaded may or may not get that lucky. But it has the same sort of tough job of being the middle film in a series where the first film was self contained.

Well, I went and saw it at one of the "day-before" 10pm showings, not something I typically do but I needed to squeeze it in during finals week at a non-busy time. To people who are going to see this, I recommend seeing it twice- at least that's my plan. There is a lot to take in and I seem to only have lots of complaints clouding my view of the movie right now. These primarily center around a lack of polish, somewhat poor pacing, and some confusing justifications (as opposed to confusing plot twists or confusing explainations) and these are things that typically get cleared up in the mind after multiple viewings.

SI

I quite enjoyed it, and to be honest, the only parts that 'dragged' was the fight sequences, as they either needed to cut a few of Neo's out, or (this is the one I'd prefer) shorten them up somewhat. Yes, the sequences are cool, but when they run so many for so long, that cool factor wears off rather quickly.

I think they really set themselves up for the final installment, and gave audiences a lot to think about story line wise, which makes me quite happy that I don't have to wait more than 6 months to find out what happens next.

I just saw it last night and Im impressed . I like the SFX and the fight scenes I agree needed to be cut short .

That movie.

Was 2 hours of my life I'll never get back.

Why god, why.

maybe someone can help me. when i saw it, during trinity's hacking sequence to allow neo and morpheus and the key master to get past all those agent smiths and get into the door, a bunch of people laughed out loud when they showed the computer. was there a hidden joke in there?

also, the wachowski bros. are too damn smart for their own good

The 'joke' was the fact that they actually used real Linux/Unix commands in the 'hacking' of that computer.

ahhh, geek humor. nothing like it.

I snuck out and saw it this afternoon (couldn't get out of work in time to get to the rally in Ardmore). I thoroughly enjoyed it, but then again, I was just hoping for a cool action movie and that's what I got.

See, I couldn't even appreciate it for its action. The hardcore action sequences were too drug out and repetative for my tastes. Nothing 'jaw-dropping', so to speak.

I enjoyed it. I could have done without the techno-porn-mosh pit though. Had me worried when it got a little slow there, but it recovered well. My fiance was totally lost, having informed me half way through the movie that she had never seen the first one. No wonder. (Considering she hasn't talked to me much the last 3 weeks, I'm not surprised she didn't tell me....I thought the month before your wedding was supposed to be a happy time?)

I understand every movie can't be as digestible as Ernest Goes to ____, but there comes a point where you try to tell a stor yand you lose some poeple in the process. i conisder myself rather intelligent, i can grasp complex theories/ideas, but for a movie where you are telling a story i thought they could have done better in that dept. the part where i was completely lost was when he actually met the architect of the Matrix. i was lost. and it seems like that was one of the more important scenes.

i also was lost as to the role of that French villain, the one holding the Keymaster. he obviously will make a return in the 3rd movie, but i don't know what purpose he played other than keeping the Keymaster captive.

and the whole part about Agent Smith lost me.

but i liked the movie. i had to watch the 1st movie 3 times for me to make it my #3 movie of all time. i have to watch this sequel another few times for me to enjoy it, or maybe read the book. it shouldn't be this hard. it's a movie.

and was it just me, but other than Neo flying or being able to kick ass for extended periods of time, but wasn't he in fact somewhat weaker in this movie? in the first one he was able to destroy Agent Smith and you generally got the impression that he wielded IMMENSE power. but he struggled to fight that French guy's goons. i don't know, that whole climax of the 1st movie was very dear to me, in Reeves limited acting ability he really was able to hit that part out of the park - you really felt Neo could feel that he was part of the Martix and you could see this newfound awe in his power...in this movie, i don't know, it was like he was pulling his punches. i understand they wanted to make the fight scenes last longer for the eye candy aspect, but i just didn't feel like he was as powerful as he was in the final scenes in the last movie.

i give it 4 out of 5 stars. not a bad way to kick off the summer. i waited many years for this movie and it was really worth the wait.

"Ernest Goes to ____, "

Jail? Guilty Pleasure #19: The Ernest Movies.

Hell, one thing to remember with this one is that the agents were "upgrades" Don't exactly know what that means other than that they are much better than Agent Smith.

And his difficulty with the french guy's goons may have been in the design of his goons. They were leftovers from a previous Matrix and (at least in the case of the Twins) are not entirly bound by the laws of this Matrix. (At least, that's how I understood it...)

you're right - i forgot to factor in the upgrades.

SPOILERS!!

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I really enjoyed it. I thought the fight scenes and chase scenes were incredible. Neo's dream at the opening of the movie - Trinity falling out of the building was an incredible way to start the film.

The scene with the many Agent Smiths was great too. I enjoyed the fact that it went on and on. It became almost comic every time you saw more Smiths come running into the fight. And the effects were incredible.

As for the love scene intercut with the mosh pit - I didn't care for it, but my wife thought it was one of the best love scenes she has ever seen. She said you could really feel the love/lust between the characters. So maybe that scene was for the ladies.

Car chase scene. INCREDIBLE. I usually hate car chases and fight scenes, but this one was shot and GCI'ed so well that it was incredibly entertaining. I really understood why Morpheus said that the freeway was a deathtrap. I thought it worked SO well.

Okay..... That leaves the scene with the architect. I am a smart guy, but I didn't get all of it. Did that bother me? Not at all. I got enough out of it that I understood what was going on. But I am so tired of simple movies that spell everything out for you. Usually when you see the first 15 minutes of an action film you completely know the ending already. Nothing is left to the imagination. I liked the fact that there is more to this film than I was able to grasp in one viewing. I will watch it again.

My wife loved the techno Zion mosh celebration too, must be a girl thing. i liked the music in the background and seeing Trinity as naked as you're gonna see her.

like i said, i don't need a movie to hold my hand - but i don't want to make up parts of the story or fill in the blanks. interpreting what the movie's message is lays on the responsibility of the viewer - that's the only part where i feel i should be using my intelligence or opinion. but expecting me to follow such a complex plot or scene is asking too much from me. the storyteller has the responsibility of making sure he has everyone on the same page. tell the story easier, let the masses decipher it and put the pieces together.

i just wasn't even able to follow some parts, namely the Agent Smith part (don't tell me, i 'll figure it out by watching it several times) and the architect part.

Like I said, I got it. Meaning I understood the plot, I just didn't understand the WHY of a couple of things regarding the architect.

I understood the Agent Smith stuff. And I really liked the Oracle scene - some complex stuff in that (especially how it relates to the ultimate architect scene), but I understood it.

I am an amateur writer myself, and I agree that it is the writer's (as well as ultimately the director's) responsibility to make sure the story gets across. BUT, they are almost always off the mark - writers hardly ever give the EXACT right amount of information to 1) get the plot across and 2) keep the audience in the dark enough to keep it interesting. Usually, the writer gives TOO MUCH info. They play to the lowest common denominator - which is why most typical Hollywood movies are so damn DUMB! I am happy to find a major Hollywood movie that shoots high - it is overly-intellectual, instead of the typical dumb summer blockbuster. I find this a refreshing change.

(BTW, I'm talking here about big-budget movies here, independent films are a totally different animal)

Saw it last night and enjoyed it immensly.

Definitely a different style from the first. I likes all the extra backstory, plot twists, and symbolic evangelizing in the movie.

With that ending though, I can see why they are releasing the third only a short time later.

I pretty much got and understood everything. There's a couple of things that didn't piece together. But I'm sure we're not supposed to piece them together yet. It is the second of a trilogy. Things that don't make sense will probably make sense after the next one.

I saw it on Thursday. Thinking about seeing it again either tonight or tomorrow (I have a two-day stretch of days off). Why? Cause I'm a Matrix fanboy? No, though I did enjoy the movie. No, the reason why I am thinking of seeing again is because it is still quite watchable again, even so soon, and because I think going a second time MIGHT be better than the first--because now I know when I need to turn on my brain.

I almost want to bring in a handheld recorder to get the architect's part on tape, so I can replay it later and mull it over. :)

In any case, if I do so, maybe I'll come back here and we can discuss it a little better. It was damn confusing, and like HA, despite my usually immense ability to handle complex storylines, this one got away from me in the end (although I have some theories).

Chief Rum

It figures, I go...and after about a half hour into the movie, the projector gets jacked up. So we sit around for a half-hour waiting for them to fix it. Finally they give up on that and just give us rainchecks and some free passes, and shoo us out the door.

Maybe I'll see it tomorrow.:)

Great discussion of the movie's themes here. (CHUD.com's message boards)

One poster on that board (Ludwig Van) is a real filmmaker and believes that the movie is basically about mathematics. Interesting. I've seen it twice and love it.

I felt the same way, I saw it Wednesday night, then again Friday night. Seeing it the 2nd time I could see people's complaints about the rave/sex scene, that scene just felt uncomfortable, both times I saw it. I think the 2nd time around I was able to be ready for certain scenes and the efx looked amazing the 2nd time around also. Great movie!

Man, the posters on that site are blowing my mind. There's no way that I'm going to be able to sleep tonight with all this mulling around in my head...

I couldn't agree more.

My wife and I saw it last night.

She hated it. She said that there were too many plots that end up going nowhere.

I agree with her.

It is one serious trip though, my goodness!

Overall, I liked it but I thought some things went a little over board. Without the fight scenes the movie would not been very good.

Overall Score(1-10): 7

Did anyone watch the screens behind Neo when he was talking to the Architect? The Architect was talking about how the 1st Matrix failed (I think) because they did not accurately put in the atrocities of history. And then a picture of Hitler flashes behind them... but then like 3 pictures later Bush flashes up behind them. Truly classic, my girlfriend didn't see it. Be sure to look for it next time.

Anyway, I thought the movie fit well with the first one if you pay attention,

I kinda thought you would pick up on that, Easy Mac. While I'm sure the Wachowski Bros. have no love for Bush (no one in Hollywood does except maybe Schwartzeneggar and I suppose maybe Alec Baldwin since he's still in the country), the Architect was not talking about atrocities at that point, but about human conflict. I would definitely say Bush qualifies as a figure that has led to human conflict. I would be a lot more careful about linking him to human atrocities, although Belgium has its thing about Gen. Tommy Franks. :rolleyes:

Chief Rum

I tend to reserve judgement on non-standalone films like this until I get the chance to see the whole story together. However, for now I liked this okay and they definatey set themselves up to go in a couple different but interesting paths with the third one.

IMO, this movie could have benefited GREATLY by better editing... it could have been an insta-classic.

check out the official site... whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/ there is alot of cool things on there. the animatrix is pretty cool as it gives a little back story. there is a philosophy link that has lots of essays on the matrix...a very cool site.

has any one played the video game? it is supposed to answer some questions about reloaded. watch the movie and play the game and get a better understanding. cool concept

ARCHITECT SPEECH
For those without handheld recorders :)

------------------------------

The Architect: I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, although your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize that it is the most irrelevant.

Neo: Why am I here?

Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an imbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control -- which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo: You haven't answered my question.

Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The screens showing Neo suddenly take on a life of their own -- They show many different Neos, asking "Others? What others?" Some of them are calm, and others are deeply disturbed. The real Neo remains calm. After a moment, the screens reset to showing the real Neo.*

Architect: The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the next, in which case, this is the sixth version.

*The screens behind Neo go nuts again. Some of them laugh, others cry "Bullshit," and others are disturbed. The camera zooms in closer and closer on one which appears calm and reflective. As we zoom in, we see a twinge as the scanlines disappear and the monitor's display becomes our own view. We see that this is our own Neo.*

Neo: There are two possibilities. Either no one told me...Or no one knows.

Architect: Precisely. As you are undoubtably gathering, the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simple equations.

*The screens go nuts again. "You can't control me!" "I'm gonna smash you to fuckin'..." Most of them are flipping off the Architect. Again, we zoom in on the display of the real Neo, who is turning around to look at all his predecessors.*

Neo: Choice. The problem is choice.

*We cut out of the architect's room to go see Trinity fight an agent for a little bit. After 30 seconds or so, we come back.*

Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite perfect. It was a work of art. Flawless. Sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. In inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it based on your history, to reflect the varying grotesquities of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the problem eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo: The Oracle.

Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice -- even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refuse the program, while a minority, if left unchecked would represent an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo: This is about Zion.

Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed -- its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo: Bullshit.
Previous Neos: Bullshit!

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But rest assured -- This will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*More Trinity fighting*

Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program -- after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply in this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo: You won't let it happen. You can't. You need human beings to survive.

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*the architect fingers his remote control again, and we see images of normal people, looking innocent, vulnerable, and entirely unaware of what is going on*

Architect: It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific, vis-a-vis love.

Neo: Trinity.

*We see the screens work together to present a giagantic image of Trinity's falling gun battle with the agent*

Architect: apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo (whispering): No.

Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, where in the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her and to the end of your species.

*the screens fade in the middle of the above line to go back to showing Neo.*

Architect: As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I can see the chain reaction. The chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth: She is going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the left-hand door. The screens follow him.*

Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

Architect: We won't.

*We cut to see Morpheus getting unplugged.*

A few thoughts:


Architect: If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
Architect: Please.

Do you guys think that the "Please" is saying "Don't be silly. It's not the Oracle"? If so, have we met the "mother" yet?


Architect: The function of the one is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program...

"The code you carry"... Hmmm. Is Neo a program? Is he human? Was he given the "code" during the kiss with Monica Balucci?

Persephone??

That has occurred to me as well, but I just don't know.

I'm still confused as hell about the Frenchman. That scene seemed out of place to me, like an arbitrary roadblock thrown in to make the quest more difficult.

i was just re-watching the first. it's so cool because there is lots of forshadowing into the first and the second. i also just picked up the game hoping that is cool.

some of my thoughts:

the "real world" is an add on to matrix, not really "real"
(interesting, i had to read an essay and our topic was to define "real." there were 4 definitions: real as impact ie weather,etc. the real as make believe/fantasy, the real as every day life and the forth eludes me, but)

neo or the "one" is a program

there is more to it than just man vs machine, the whole council man speach. man needs machine, machine needs man. this trilogy is not just about this there has to be more.

i watched the 4 free episodes on the website. pretty cool. the first show how man and machine coexisted then the machines formed their own city/society. they always wanted to live together with humans, but man wouldn't accept it.

if star trek fans are trekies and harry potter fans are potter heads what are matrix fans? cuz that is what i am. i'm so enthralled with "The Matrix"

I thought the Frenchman was a previous "One," (I remember his wife telling Neo he is like what the Frenchman was like in the past). Well, that's all I could come up with anyway.

Also, the guy in Xion trying to kill Neo is YAAS -- Yet Another Agent Smith?????? If not, then I'm throughly confused.

If you mean the guy carrying the knife about to stab Neo before the annoying kid shows up with the spoon, then yes that is Agent Smith. It is the same guy they show on the bed opposite Neo in the end as the "sole survivor" of the ships that were destroyed by the machines.

yes

***Spoilers***

























here is the cconverstaion between neo and the architect.
Architect: Hello Neo
Neo: Who are you?
A: I am the architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
A: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation, inherit to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden insidiously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexorably here.
Neo: You haven’t answered my question.
A: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker than the others.
Neo: Others? ***
A: The Matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.
Neo: *** There are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
A: Precisely, as you were undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Neo: ***Choice. The problem is choice.

A: The first Matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect. It was a work of art, flawless, sublime; a triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherit in every human being; thus, I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesques of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer alluded me because it required a lesser mind or perhaps a mind less bound by the perimeters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the Father of the Matrix, she would undoubtedly be its Mother.
Neo: The Oracle.
A: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice. Even if they were only aware of the choice even at an unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly that if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refuse the program, while a minority, if left unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion.
A: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed, its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bull****
A: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses, but rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

A: The function of The One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry re-inserting the prime program, after which you will be required to select from the Matrix twenty three individuals, sixteen female, seven male, to re-build Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash, killing everyone connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won’t let it happen, you can’t, you need human beings to survive
A: There are levels of survival we are prepared to except. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to except the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting to read you reactions, your five predecessors were by design, based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of The One. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. These of the….Love
Neo: Trinity....
A: Apropos she entered the Matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.
Neo: No...
A: Which brings us at last, to the moment of truth where in the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both the beginning and the end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door on your left leads back to the Matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice, but we already know what you are going to do, don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical pre-cursors that signal the unset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth, she is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it
Neo: *walks towards the door on the left*
A: Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of you greatest strength and you greatest weakness.
Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we wouldn’t meet again.
A: We won’t....

Wow. Those CHUD dudes are some pretentious f*ckers. Some smart, interesting stuff nonetheless.

I can't see where people are getting the idea that Zion fell. I thought it was pretty clear that five ships were sent up to attack the sentinals at a specific cut-off place (some tunnel or something) and were wiped out in a massacare. So those five ships, who planned the ambush, were wiped out, not Zion. That's how it went down. None of this fall of Zion crapola.

H_B - I'm still not sure if it was only 5 ships or a larger number in a counterattack. They say something like "After the EMP went off early, 5 ships were lost and when the machines broke through it was a slaughter," which I thought implied that there were maybe 30 or 40 ships but that the machines exploited the breach in the lines to destroy the ships. Either way, I agree about people not understanding that Zion was not destroyed.

I just watched the movie last night, and I got the feeling that the "war" is more the machines against the "first" programs, not the humans. It seems pretty clear to me that the programs are the only way the humans can win, so the machines want the programs dead. The humans want the machines dead. The programs want to keep the humans alive so the the matrix is still around and not "reloaded". But they want the machines around, because if the humans win, the matrix will be gone and so will they.

Overall I thought it was a sweet movie though. I definately need to see it again.

I didn't think the movie was that good. Yes, the fights were nice (a tad long), and the fx we decent, but the story had the potential to be developed much better. I would be interested to see a different take on this by a director who was not hung up on the fx.

I wouldn't blame either directors' enfatuation with great FX for the shortcomings of this film. There were a ton of effects. A ton. And most quite excellent (though some parts were a reach. A decent effort, but a reach nonetheless). I don't think this movie suffered from Effects Masturbation (see: new Star Wars flicks) where it seems Lucas can't get enough of his goofy CGI nonsense and new tricks so much that the plot, story, and dialogue suffer a horrible fate.

This movie seemed to get bogged down on too much exposition if any thing. There was too much "tell" and not enough "show." All of this talk about old, obsolete programs hiding out, being afraid of deletion and being super-powerful or being vampires/werewolves, or whatever. Was kind of dull. In the first movie when you learned about the Matrix, they showed you stuff. There was some exposition, but most of it occurred while we saw Neo (or others) experience it. Here there was just bla, blah, blah, FIGHT! Blah, blah, blah, FIGHT!

I agree the fights were cool, but too long. I don't think this movie suffered because of too much attention to FX though.

I thought the film was ok, but didn't 'gel' particularly well.

I got the impression the director had a tick list of 'needed' features in the film:

* Cool Fight Sequences
(tick)
* Hunky Hero
(tick)
* Romantic Canoodling for ladies
(tick)
* Twists to storyline
(tick)
* End Hook to get people back for No.3
(tick)

But it didn't feel that it naturally hung as well together as in some films ...

Plus:

* What happened to Neo's superhacker powers that he had at the end of the first film?
* If the machines are so smart then why not give humans the 'choice' of staying in the matrix and if they don't just kill them - the problem was that originally they had no choice hence the matrix didn't work - when they rebel they have no idea what they're in for hence the choice and the matrix would still function.

(but as one of my frieds said - I think too much about these things ;) )

For the first question, I think his powers clearly still exist, but the enemies are either "upgrades," "changed" (like Smith), or from some older version of the Matrix. His powers are virtually unlimited, but virtually is still not completely. And he seems to flex his "hacking" muscles pretty well.

As for the choice issue, I think the architect implies three things of relevance. First, is that very few really choose to be in the Matrix on a conscious level. I imagine it would be hard to find those people at the beginning as well. Second, a Matrix of self-selected people who are happy in fantasyland may have a lot of the same acceptance problems of the early Matrixes. Third, the threat of death (even if the computers hid it) would probably make a lot of people pretend to like the Matrix. And once they know it is an illusion, they would be more dangerous.

Anyway, I probably think too much about these things as well. ;)

I've always wondered, the agents in The Matrix could basically jump into anyone they wanted so long as they were still connected to the matrix (though Smith expanded on that now). So in the first one, at the first sign of someone rejecting it (like when they were talking to Neo in the first movie, and had him in the room alone) why not take over the person like they do innocent bystanders. Then they could shoot the person they take over, killing the potential trouble maker? Wouldn't this be easier than chasing after the One all the time and letting more and more people out? Or would this have made the movie too short?

Oh, and if this turns out to be a Matrix inside a Matrix a la the 13th Floor (decent movie), I'll be pissed. Be a stunning lack of originality, and make the movies feel very similar.

i'm not buying that "Matrix in a Matrix" idea. it seems too predictable, and i thoroughly believe this movie was designed to baffle and bewilder. i don't think we are supposed to understand what's going on in Reloaded.

i didn't understand what the meaning of the Architect scene was when i saw it in the theatre, and now that i read the transcript here i still don't know what it's about. yes, i understand what's being said, but what is the storyteller trying to get at.

this brings me back to an earlier post about storytelling skills/responsibility. it is the storytellers responsibility to tell the story, make sure the audience understands what's going on so that while no spoonfeeding should be necessary - the audience can grasp what it is that the story teller is trying to say. i just want to say "in a nutshell - explain to me what it is you're trying to tell me when i see the architect scene." the only question the audience should have is what the moral of the story was, or what is the meaning to the movie. they shouldn't be asking "what's going on in this scene?".

dialogue-wise, the scenes with the architect and the french guy are poor - i see those two talking but i just don't comprehend what they're getting at. causality. choice. still don't get it, or i get it but can't tie it in to what frame of the Matrix story.

French Chap/Architect -

What I believe they were indicating via. causality/choice is that effectively humans are simply biological machines and as such are programmed and therefore have no real choices.

(hence the architect mentioning the electrical impulses etc. when Neo makes his decision)

Following through with this idea, if humans are part of a computer program - it has a memory leak (ie. Zion - which accumulates humans which have been 'mislaid') and in order to ensure the long-term system stability it has to be reset now and then (Zion destroyed).

PS. Yeah I admit it, I was chuffed they used real unix commands in the film ;)

I think that the major problem is that the story teller doesn't want you to know that the scene meant. This was made clear in the Archatect's first paragraph "some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not." Seris like this almost need to be looked at as one long movie. Would you be upset if 2/3 of the way through a typical movie you didn't fully understand everything that was going on? There are still many twists and turns to come. Have patience, I am sure that it will all be made clear in due time.

am I the only one who hopes that they make a "Police Acadamy meets the Matrix?"

FYI - there are some really good articles regarding Matrix philosophies by some independent people on the Matrix web site. Good reading.

Here is something someone posted on that CHUD messageboard that was very intersting.



This is a huge point about the movie, and one that can lead to the answer of whether this really is a "matrix in a matrix" (which I would absolutely hate, I've seen the 13th Floor already). Having actually thought about this, it really makes me think this is the direction the next one is taking :(

Preferably, my idea on the scene is that they were going to get hit by the squiddie bomb anyway, so it didn't particularly matter, and Trinity would have to go back in regardless. Since people were jacked in, its not like they could have EMP'd the sentinel.

But it really makes you think that it had to have been set up, just like everything in the Matrix.

They did a great job of keeping people hanging, so that now people are really going to want to see the last movie just to figure out what it's all about...

I saw it a week ago, and I understood it, except for that scene with the Matrix Architect. What the hell was wrong with his previous versions of the Matrix ? Did he forget to backup his files after reformatting his hard drive ?

basically, the first one was too perfect, and too many people rejected that the matrix wasn't real. So he started over, including things that let us see how bad the "world" was/is. Some still wanted to reject it, so he allowed them to be unplugged, eventually one came around who realized he could transform the matrix, so in an attempt to reign in the anomoly, they created a prophecy and manipulated those who they let out. That way the one would always be pointed towards the architect, with the choice to let humanity die or restart the Matrix, essentially reformatting (kind of like havin Windows crash all the time.