Bigger bust: Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russell?
 

You make the call!

I vote for Russell. At least Leaf can blame some of his bustiness on a wrist injury. But both belong on Mt. Bustmore.

Leaf, largely because there was more reasonable hope that he might be good or at least serviceable someday.

Yeah, I'd say Leaf. I recall significant concerns about Russell; Leaf was back-and-forth with Manning as #1 pick, AND he failed spectacularly with the blow-ups at fans and everything. Russell's just been terrible and lazy.

Russell definitely has the bigger moobs. Oh, not that kind of bust.

Akili Smith is the biggest QB bust of the last 20 years. I voted Ryan Leaf just because he is the closest to Akili Smith (in time frame), so he has more of Akili Smith's stink on him.

I think that the fact that Leaf has the Manning comparisons there and the fact that Leaf also had the blow-ups at the media and the fact that a lot of people at the time of the draft kinda thought that Russell may not be all that swings it in Leaf's favor.

As we noted in the JaMarcus thread, the fact that "The Raiders could have had Kevin Kolb" does not have quite the same bust effect as "the Chargers might have gotten Payton Manning."

I picked Leaf, only because he was pretty much universally annoited as a legend in the making and there were plenty of concerns about Russell, which the Raiders chose to ignore anyway.

Albionmoonlight makes a great point with the Kolb / Manning comparison as well.....

Leaf - but Russell is right up there (ahead of say Akili Smith)

Until Russell's in prison it has to be Leaf.

I suppose if you put in warning signs Akili Smith isn't the biggest bust. He wasn't any good until his senior year at Oregon (JR and Leaf had their big seasons as juniors at least, and decided to come out right away.) He rocketed to top 3 pick because of workout performances.

But Akili Smith's on field performance is just so, so much worse than any other top 3 pick QB you can put him up against. He was so bad he really should have never, ever seen the field even to gauge his talent level. It had to be clear in practice he would never make it.

Where does Tim Couch rank in the pantheon of bust QBs?

He's up there but was drafted to an expansion team who inserted him in as a started WAY to early. Bust yes - but a horrible situation he was put in.

Couch, to me, is kinda like David Carr. In the right situation, he might have been a dependable starting QB. But given their situations, they were more or less shellshocked out of the league.

Couldn't agree any more...

Leaf without a doubt. People thought he was going to be good.

i voted russell simply because he went 1 and leaf went 2.

if anything the leaf pick helped sd in the long run because they were so snakebit they passed on vick and ended up with lt and brees.

although there was 4 years of sportstalk hell. and they let brees walk for nothing...

my logic's falling in on itself.

Ryan Leaf was a far worse player.

Leaf:
1998: 111-245 (45.3%), 1289 yards, 2 TD, 15 Int (39.0 Rating)
2000: 161-322 (50.0%), 1883 yards, 11 TD, 18 Int (56.2 Rating)
2001: 45-88 (51.1%), 494 yards, TD, 3 Int (57.7 Rating)

Russell:
2007: 36-66 (54.5%), 373 yards, 2 TD, 4 Int (55.9 Rating)
2008: 198-368 (53.8%), 2423 yards, 13 TD, 8 Int (77.1 Rating)
2009: 120-246 (48.8%), 1287 yards, 3 TD, 11 Int (50.0 Rating)

Russell had at least one year that was close to average as a starting quarterback; and after that season, looked like he might still develop into something. Leaf never got out of horrible.

Went with Leaf, have to consider the Oakland factor. I don't think anyone considered Russell 1.1 worthy other then Al.

Considering Russell already had the nickname "JaBustus" before he was even drafted, I have to go with Leaf.

Though I wonder if more people would have been onto Leaf sucking if the internet had been around to the degree it is today.

Leaf by a country mile.

I picked Russell. First, he's a Raider. Second, he's lazier than what Leaf was. Third, he actually had some talent to throw to. Fourth, he's a Raider. Fifth, he never exploded on a reporter like Leaf had the balls to.

Leaf was paid about 11M in guarantees, Russell nearly 35M. It's a no-brainer.

I chose Russell...but should have gone Leaf. I had actually forgot how terrible Leaf really was. After I voted I went and looked up his stats...friggin atrocious.

Not that Russell's were much better...but Leaf was more universally considered a future star where Russell had a ton of detractors (myself included) that did not believe he would amount to much in the NFL. I had thought his potential was to be the next Byron Leftwich...which really isnt what you should be drafting at 1.1.

No love for Andre Ware?

David Klingler?

Ryan Leaf hands down. With all the questions surrounding JR's work ethic coming into the draft, I think this outcome was somewhat predictable.

Leaf would probably be my #1 all time, but others to consider:

Art Schlicter (sp?)
Dan McGwire (although maybe living in Washington state at the time distorts my view, still he had expectations)
That red-headed Raider named Todd M-something edit: Moranivich? Maranivich? something like that.....

Oh, and most Bear QBs.

Sexy Rexy and McNown worked out well.

Peter King. This was back when I read MMQB on si.com on a regular basis and after the previous season ended all of a sudden Russell was all King could talk about (and I, who paid little attention to college football, had no idea who he was talking about).

Peter King is an idiot.

Since I thought Leaf was going to be awesome and expected Russell to be average at best Id have to go with Leaf on this one. Classic case of potential outweighing production in Russell's case and of course the Raiders fell for it.

Russell at least had one half of a season where he showed some promise of eventual improvement. Leaf didn't even have that.

I picked Russel. Simply because he went #1 and Leaf went #2. I don't like the Kolb/Manning analogy. The Chargers couldn't have had Peyton Manning. They picked second. The two QB's taken after Leaf were Charlie Batch (end of round 2) and Brian Greise (end of round 3, 1 pick ahead of Hines Ward) Matt Hasselbach was selected in the sixth round by the way.

As for QB busts, I'm very disappointed nobody has mentioned Kelly Stouffer. Kelly was picked #6 in the 1987 draft.

He held out the entire year, was traded to the Seahawks and then started playing. Here is what ole Kelly did:

He played in 22 games, started 16 of those games.

He attempted 447 passes, completing 51.5% of those passes for 2333 yards. (5.3 yards per pass attempt) He averaged 106 passing yards per game.

He thre 7 TD's and 19 INT's. His career rating was 54.5

He also was sacked 50 times and fumbled the ball 20 times.

In 1992 he appeared in 9 games and finished second in the league in fumbles.

He's the single worst QB I've ever seen play live (and I've seen plenty of bad ones, the Raiders are in our division after all)

:(

The Chargers could not have had Manning. But Manning/Leaf are forever locked into a discussion of Leaf's bustiness. Even if Indy never for a second considered taking Leaf, the tenor of the pre-draft discussion certainly caused everyone to consider the two together.

Being a bust is, in part, about perception.

Maybe instead of Kolb, you could use Brady Quinn, since he was the other big name QB in that draft. But I think that you end up in the same place as Kevin Kolb there. Neither of those guys is Payton Manning.

Heath Shuler.

Leaf, Smith and Russell are the big three over the last decade or so. Smith was a huge prospect - he, McNabb and Couch all had the same 6.80 grade from PFW coming out. Russell received a 6.65.

I'd give it to Leaf based on hype and just how dreadful he did perform.

Other notables since 1998: Cade McNown, J.P. Losman, John Beck, Brian Brohm, Marques Tuiasosopo (the best high school player I've ever seen play).

Maybe, I just use players taken after the pick. It's like saying the Detroit Pistons whiffed by not taking Lebron James. Well, they had the #2 pick, they couldn't have had him. You can say they screwed up by not taking Melo, Wade or Bosh.

Now, lets say it came out the Chargers could have had the #1 pick by trading the #2 a third rounder and a fourth rounder but passed it up? Now I can see comparing Leaf to Manning in bust/boom terms. I guess it's all how each individual looks at it.

Yeah, Todd Marinovich was also a pretty big bust, though did he get picked #1?

Jumping the gun a bit are we? Like it or not, the jury's still out on Russell. He's still on an NFL team, only 24 years old. Come on.

Gotta be Leaf, if only because of context. He went #1 in a draft where there were, according to the experts, two #1-worthy choices, and the guy taken after him had a monster career, while Leaf...didn't. After Russell, there wasn't a QB taken 'til Brady Quinn at #22.

As somebody else pointed out, Leaf's always gonna have that "what coulda been" comparison.

Actually, if he ends up being released by the Raiders, the jury will have returned with its verdict.

He might serve his sentence, get a reprieve, end up on work-release & cure cancer ... but the sentence will have been formally passed if they cut him.

Todd Marinovich Bio - Drug Problems of QB Todd Marinovich - Esquire

Here's a recent story about him in Esquire. He was picked 1st overall, but drug problems were the culprit in his life.

Someone else will sign Russell once he's released. To do what and for how long, is anyone's guess, but...he's not entirely done yet. Though the reaper is certainly lurking on whatever is left of his career.

Leaf went #2. Manning went #1.

ESPN the Mag, I think it was, did a recent story on his dad's training MMA fighters, and part of it was, of course, discussing/interviewing Todd.

Russell is in David Carr land if the Raiders release him. Nobody is going to give him a starting job. Best he can hope for is a backup position in a good situation, actually work hard and develop his skills and hope a starting job opens up a couple of years down the road. I think he's done, but it's not over quite yet.

If you are no better than 3rd string on the Raiders how much career can you really have left? Russell has been all time bad. I don't see someone giving him a shot at #2. I mean what if he actually has to take the field?

What dubb said.

Who would want to have to play him? He's not a worker type, so do you even want him as your #3 developmental QB? Russell will get people fired if he has to play.

Might be better for him to play a year in that alternate league to show he can actually play (assuming any of those teams would want him), maybe latch on as a 3rd stringer/developmental guy toward the end of this year? Who knows.

The Chargers traded up to get Leaf-

Gave up what turned out to be the #8 selection(David Boston) in the next draft to Arizona. The Chargers had the #3 pick.

I had previously read that article and recommend it.


Carr > Russell, in my opinion. Carr was probably never going to be a great QB, but given the amount he got sacked in Houston, he didn't do all that badly.

I chose Leaf, I thought he'd be good. People who thought Russell was going to be any good were nuts.

Yeah, as the #24 pick he really isn't in the conversation.

I would say Leaf because he was put on the same level as Manning. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen a QB who is as bad as Jamarcus. I remember watching some Raider games last year and being in shock at how bad he was. Leaf was bad, but he got to a point where you weren't laughing at every other pass he threw. But I don't know if I can objectively give an answer.

I think being a fan for this long we get immune to first round busts. It's just so common, especially at QB that it's not a shock. If Sam Bradford flames out in the NFL, will anyone really be shocked? I guess I just figure that half the top picked QBs will bomb out in the NFL so I don't have high expectations. It feels much more like rolling some dice these days.

I heard Russell is up over 300 pounds, I think he could make for a decent Defensive End, or Tight End.

or Tackling dummy, oh wait anytime he lined up last season thats what he already was.

yeah, that's the thing. i was in sd during the leaf era and every pre-season it was 'he's figured it out'

he would light up pre-season games and show glimmers during the early season but one bad game and it was downward spiralsville.

even towards the end he wasn't hopeless everyone was just exacerbated with the whole affair.

I think people are already forgetting how much hype Russell had coming out of LSU. Most people had him going 1st overall so it wasn't like the Raiders were the only people high on him. Calvin Johnson was seen as an equal or maybe slightly better talent overall, but no one else was in the discussion for going #1 overall. Kiper was actually comparing him Elway and actually stated he'd be a top 5 QB within 3 years.

russell was said to have had the best pro day anyone has ever scene. ever.

Yes, Russell sucks obviously, he definitely was touted by many.

+1

over/under on the first "russell is broke" story? 2015?

Or the "Russell battles Todd McCullough for 400lbs+ pinball wizard trophy" story.

Aye, that's exactly right. I'd much rather my team take a QB in the 2nd round. Less pressure to succeed straight away, and gives the team anoter season or two to make sure their is some semibalance of an O-Line to protect him.

The failure of the high-1st round QBs pretty much comes down to expectations and being put in horrible situations IMO. Put a lot of these guys in the 2nd round and I bet their careers turn out very differently.

Russell's 2nd season alone makes him better than Leaf.

QBs drafted in rounds 1 and 2 from 2000-2009:

Top 10
Matt Stafford
Mark Sanchez
Matt Ryan
Jamarcus Russell
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
Alex Smith
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Mike Vick

1st Rounders Outside the Top 10
Josh Freeman
Joe Flacco
Brady Quinn
Jay Cutler
Aaron Rodgers
Jason Campbell
Ben Roethlisberger
JP Losman
Rex Grossman
Kyle Boller
Patrick Ramsey
Chad Pennington

Round 2
Pat White
Brian Brohm
Chad Henne
Kevin Kolb
John Beck
Drew Stanton
Kellen Clemens
Tavaris Jackson
Charlie Frye
Andrew Walter
Chris Simms
Drew Brees
Quincy Carter
Marques Tuiasosopo


Given the choice, I'd take my chances on a 1st round QB because drafting after the 1st round your chances of finding an elite or even serviceable QB go down drastically.