November 2008 Console Sales Figures (featuring broken records)
 

November numbers and top ten are out. NPD figures are USA only as always.

Hardware: ....... November ..... (October).... Lifetime

Wii .................2.04M....... 803K .... ... 15.4m
Nintendo DS ......1.57M.. ...491K .... ... 24.4m
Xbox 360 ...........836k... ....371K .... ... 12.4m
PSP ................ 421k......... 193K .... ... 13.2m
PlayStation 3 .....378k...... 190K .... ... 6.1m
PlayStation 2 ......206k..... 136K .... ... 43.0m

Software:

GEARS OF WAR 2* (360) ............... ........ 1.56m
CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR* (360) ... 1.41m
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE (WII) .................... 796K
WII FIT (WII) ...................................... 697K
MARIO KART (WII) ............................... 637K
CALL OF DUTY: WORLD AT WAR (PS3) ..... 597K
GUITAR HERO WORLD TOUR* (WII) .......... 475K
LEFT 4 DEAD (360) .............. ................. 410K
RESISTANCE 2* (PS3) ................ .......... 385K
WII MUSIC (WII) ................... ................297K

(*includes CE, GOTY editions, bundles, etc. but not those bundled with hardware)

Others:

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King (PC) .... 1.4m
Fable II (360) ................ 184k


Lifetime software:

Software LTD's:
Wii Play: .......... 7.929.501
Mario Kart Wii:.... 4.013.000
Wii Fit: ............ 3.530.134
Wii Music: ......... 378.000
Fable II ............... 974,000

Best selling single SKU titles of all time (since NPD began tracking in the mid to late 90's, otherwise Super Mario Bros. 3 would be listed among other older games):

Wii Play (7.9m)
GTA SA PS2 (6.9m)
GTA VC PS2 (6.8m)
Super Mario 64 (5.9m)
GTA3 PS2 (5.6m)

Industry numbers:


The Wii smashed the previous November record of 1.3 million consoles sold set by the PS2 in November of 2002. The all time record for one month's sales is 2.7 million set by the PS2 in December of that year. Supply issues may or may not prevent the Wii from besting that number next month.

It looks like Wii Music didn't bomb after all.

In addition to their pricing problems, Sony is barking up the wrong tree with their focus on shooters. The sales of Gears of War 2 v. Resistance 2 and the 360/PS3 split on Call of Duty: World at War sales show that shooter fans have largely gone with the 360 in part due to popularity of Gears and Halo, the 360's one year head start, and oh yeah the price.

Keep in mind that just because a game doesn't appear in the top ten doesn't mean it hasn't sold well, especially in a month like this where the #10 game is around 300k. So Animal Crossing: City Folk, LittleBigPlanet, Guitar Hero: World Tour on 360/PS3, CoD: WaW on Wii, Motorstorm: Pacific Rift, etc. may all be selling rather well but we won't know about it.

Although I haven't played Left 4 Dead, assuming it's as good as most people say it is I'm glad to see it sell so well considering it's a new IP. Plus I'm sure it sold even more on the PC than on 360.

I don't expect the DSi to come out in US anytime soon with these continued DS sales.

Microsoft PR
Nintendo PR
Sony PR

expect spin

Broken records in that it's the same thing as pretty much every month this year or that the Wii and DS sold crazy numbers? ;)

SI

Amazing numbers by the Wii. The 360 numbers are impressive as well. I guess the recession isn't affecting game buying.

Both actually.

LOL......When you have an installed base as big as the Wii and you only sell 378K of a first-party Nintendo title to date during the holiday season, that's a pretty big flop.

As far as sales go, nothing surprising this month. PS3 won't pass the 360 again month over month until we see the expected price drop early next year. Wii continues to sell extremely well.

I'm surprised MBBF didn't jump all over this.

You're right about GoW vs. Resistance 2 - but I'm not sure you're right on your conclusion about CoD.

COD 360 - 1.4m
COD PS3 - 597k
Total COD - 1.997m

360 Install Base - 12.4m
PS3 Install Base - 6.1m
Total Next Gen - 18.5

360's Share of the install base is 67% and their share of COD sales was 70%. That's not really that far off of what you would expect, it may not even be statistically significant.

Ooh! Ooh! Found it!

SI

The only spin there was MJ4H trying to downplay the the inferior sales of Wii Music. Wii Music has not done well at all. He chose not to discuss the actual figures because he knows how weak they have been. The weakness of that attempt was only surpassed by the press releases of Sony and Microsoft that tried to minimize (as they have over the past few months) just how badly they're getting hammered.

In a broader sense, I really have a tough time reconciling this recession & what my own eyes tell me at the consumer level on a daily basis.

great success

lol

It's been pointed out regarding several multi-platform games. GTAIV was another good example. Based on percentage of installed base when compared to its competitor, it actually had a better attach rate on the PS3 worldwide.

Hey, now we have three broken records!

I know you are probably including me in that, but that's ok, it's still spot on. :)

While it's definitely not a "bomb", I'd have to think Nintendo is a pretty disappointed with the Wii music sales. That's not exactly a rousing success compared to the majority of their 1st party stuff.

It's obviously one that isn't reliant on the first rush of sales, it'll continue selling but be interesting to see how much. I haven't tried it out yet, but I haven't heard many glowing reviews so far, but that probably doesn't matter.

I'm more surprised to see a 3rd party Wii game on the list, that seems like a bigger shock. :)

I doubt they expected it to take off like a rocket. If they are disappointed in it, they really have no one to blame but themselves, anyway. That presentation at E3 was a disaster and turned so many people off of it permanently.

That said, the numbers are still great numbers, and this is one of those steady seller games. I would seriously doubt that at the end of its life Nintendo were anything like disappointed with how it will have sold.

But lol at saying it "bombed" while being in the overall top 10 of software sales.

As you probably know, in a recession, movie ticket sales have traditionally done very well. The long-held theory is that movies provide a cost-effective form of entertainment/escape at a time when the public is desperately seeking this.

There has been a lot of speculation that says that video games probably fit the same niche, perhaps even more so. Although acquiring a game console requires a significant buy-in from the consumer, the console with good games that you will play for a bunch of hours works out to be a solid entertainment bargain.

Also, the extraordinarily awful unemployment numbers haven't shown up fully in these sales numbers. When the hundreds of thousands of folks that have recently lost their jobs reach the end of their unemployment benefits, I expect the downturn in consumer spending will be much more evident.

I saw a reference to the PS3 as the Gamecube of this generation. Made my chuckle.

I agree.

Noone I know has lost their job (in fact, my wife got found a job with a "real" raise this fall) or their house due to a bad mortgage, nor any income due to the poor stock market. In fact, we all have more money due to lower gas prices, and are buying more shares with our 401k contributions.

Retail sales are already down 10% from last year.

At the risk of being bunched up with MBBF ( yikes ;) ), I kind of agree that Wii Music is a bit of a disappointment in sales. As much hype as it had, and as much advertising they still have for that game, The sales numbers were expected to be higher. A flop? No, it is probably a solid game and the sales numbers will continue to rise at a steady number is my guess. Still, it is not Wii Fit level, which is probably what the hope was with the popularity of music games.

As for the economy being down, I can't say I am too surprised games are still doing so well. I have always been a skeptic with the economy because of comments like the one above. Sales are down 10% from last year. My response is usually, "Oh no's! Company A is making $900 million in profit instead of $1 Billion, it's the Great Depression for sures!" :) Then again, I am not a genius.

:+1:

TMQ had a great point this week about how the media tends to create these recessions, as there is never any GOOD economic news. Heck, household debt fell for the first time since they started tracking it, something experts have pushed for for a LONG time, and it's buried on page 3 in a little sidebar next to the big "evil Republicans thwart auto bailout because workers won't take wage cut" article.

Gas prices go up? Bad because people can't afford things. Gas prices go down? Bad because oil company profits tank. Interest rates go down? Bad because people can go into debt easier. Interest rates go up? Bad because people can't borrow any more. Nothing the economy does is ever good for the media.

Noticed some speculation over on NeoGaf about the possibility of Disney purchasing EA. Certainly would be an interesting merger and with EA really struggling right now, the price is right for a takeover.

Wii Music is well on it's way to selling over a million copies worldwide, and with the typical long legs of Nintendo's casual games I bet it hits over two million. You might say the sales figures are somewhat disappointing (and I would disagree) but by no means did the title bomb.

I get the impression that if you don't say it is a success, then all the Wii Music defenders are just going to think keep insisting it isn't a bomb, even though I and others didn't say that. With the amount of promotion spent for Wii Music, all I am saying is that they probably had the hopes of it being Wii Fit like in sales and it hasn't been. If I had those expectations and it fell short of being that, it is a bit of a disappointment. A disappointment my company will make money off of probably, but still not what we hoped for. That is what a disappointment is IMO. Doesn't mean it's doing bad.

Kind of like a football team. You were Superbowl champs last year, this year struggled to make the playoffs. It's a hell of a lot better then being the Oakland Raiders, just not as good as hoped for.

Nah, this is about MBBF insisting in an earlier thread that Wii Music would "bomb." It hasn't and it won't. That's the whole point.

And they have themselves to blame for it being "disappointing" (and I don't personally buy that what it has done so far is disappointing, but that's a separate issue). Nintendo shot this game in the forehead at E3.

I have no interest in purchasing Wii Music, but as someone pointed out earlier its almost certain to sell a million copies and likely to hit two million lifetime. Not every first party game will hit Mario Kart/Wii Fit/Galaxy levels.

And FWIW, at least one person in this thread did say it was bomb... I believe the exact wording was "big flop".

LittleBigPlanet sold 141k last month, putting it's total US sales at 356k through November. It was the fourth placed PS3 game behind CoD: WaW, Resistance 2, Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe and did not make the top 20 (which hasn't been posted anywhere yet unfortunately).

So the 20th placed game, whatever it was, sold more than 141k in November.

gamesutra.com

It's not a big series in the US but RPG fans might find it interesting that Square-Enix has announced Dragon Quest X for the Wii. It's kind of surprising that this happened before Dragon Quest IX comes out for the DS in March (in Japan, no date for the US yet. The DQ V remake is coming out in Feburary on the DS here though).

Nintendo president Satoru Iwata wants to make Dragon Quest a big series in the West.


gonintendo.com

I'd love to see the DQ games become more popular over here. I don't think Square-Enix charging $40 for their DS games helps them though.

Got some tax refund checks the other day. Was toying with the idea of putting some of that into EA, and then this broke.

PS3 as Gamecube of the next gen is shocking.

The PS3 is a much better system. I love the operating interface. While the 360 has a 1 year headstart, PS3s have to start croaking in droves to catch up with the reliability failure rate. The BluRay player doesn't really justify the extra 100 bucks price tag, but it does add some value. The self charging included remote is a mile and half better than having to buy 30 bucks worth of recharging supplies separately. Plus the remote is just better, its more comfortable, and has motion sensing. The XBOX dashboard feels like a funnel to the marketplace. Playstation network is free, and easy to create multiple online enabled accounts on one machine.


The first party/system exclusive games are better for the 360, especially shooters. Obviously, Halo and Gears own Resistance in most gamers' minds, I can't speak about it yet since Gamefly still has Resistance on the way to me. Little Big Planet is better than anything I've ever player only on xbox/360 though. Little Big Planet might be the best thing I've played since Everquest, actually. Its certainly lived up to the reputation that made it a factor in trading in my Wii for the PS3. God of War moving to the PS3 will be exciting too.

My new PS3 has also sent me back to my PSP for the main reason that it reminded my how much I liked the PSP "experience". If I had to pick one manufacturer I would certainly keep my Sony systems (original Guitar Hero, Rocks the 80s and God of War, Kingdom Hearts and .hack on PS2, Patapon and Daxter on PSP, LBP on PS3....I couldn't part with any of em). Except for Gears which my boys still play online and are getting v2 for xmas, I wouldn't miss anything all that badly for my xbox or 360 (well, maybe Project Gotham a little). And my Wii, I've posted about my Wii experience here....the disc handling mechanism proved unreliable for my family, and the games wore out their welcome fast.

Here's the top 20:

1) Gears of War 2 (Xbox 360) / Microsoft / 1,560,000
2) Call of Duty: World at War (Xbox 360) / Activision Blizzard / 1,410,000
3) Wii Play w/ Remote (WII) / Nintendo / 796,000
4) Wii Fit w/ Balance Board (WII) / Nintendo / 697,000
5) Mario Kart Wii w/ Wheel (WII) / Nintendo / 637,000
6) Call of Duty: World at War (PS3) / Activision Blizzard / 597,000
7) Guitar Hero World Tour (Wii) / Activision Blizzard / 475,000
8) Left 4 Dead (Xbox 360) / Electronic Arts / 410,000
9) Resistance 2 (PS3) / Sony / 385,000
10) Wii Music / Nintendo / 297,000
11) Animal Crossing: City Folk (Wii) / Nintendo
12) Fallout 3 (Xbox 360) / Bethesda Softworks
13) Rock Band (Wii) / MTV Games
14) Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia (DS) / Nintendo
15) Guitar Hero World Tour (Xbox 360) / Activision Blizzard
16) Mario Kart (DS) / Nintendo
17) Guitar Hero World Tour (PS2) / Activision Blizzard
18) WWE SmackDown vs. RAW 2009 (PS2) / THQ
19) Fable II (Xbox 360) / Microsoft (181,000)
20) Madden NFL 09 (Xbox 360) / Electronic Arts

:lol: @ Rock Band on Wii outselling the PS3/360 versions of Rock Band 2

It's nice to see Fallout 3 still selling.

Mario Kart DS is still charting three years after release. America loves Mario Kart.

Sadly, Valkyria Chronicles (PS3) didn't do so well, selling only 33k in it's debut month and unable to crack the top 100 accoring to Edge-Online. I just got this a few days ago and it's really good so far. If you like strategy games or RPGs check it out.

That's really sad considering that the Wii is by far the most inferior way to play Rock Band. DLC is limited by the tiny flash memory on the Wii or the super slow SD cards. Online play is terrible because of those god-awful friend codes. I almost feel sorry for anybody who buys Rock Band on that platform, they have no idea how much better their experience would be on 360 / PS3.

PS3 may not be selling well but kudos to Sony for fixing my broken PS3 in record time. Shipped it Monday morning and got a brand new unit back today. That's service.

Another thing, I have no idea how Nintendo gets away with calling Wii Play software. It is so obviously an accessory sku, with everybody purchasing it for the Wiimote, and a tiny little "freeware" type game thrown in for good measure.

Microsoft needs to do something crazy like throw in a free copy of Ninety Nine Nights with each controller they sell and call in the GREATEST GAME EVAH!!! when it starts outselling the AAA titles.

There's nothing stopping the other companies from doing the same thing, and they have tried similar approaches. Sony has bundled SOCOM and Warhawk with headsets, I'm pretty sure there was a Viva Pinata: Party Animals + 360 controller combo at some point after that game bombed, Nintendo has also bundled Animal Crossing with Wii Speak, but none of those sold nearly as well as Wii Play.

I think the issue is that Wii Play is a nothing game bundled with a must-have accessory, while something like Animal Crossing is a fantastic game coupled with a nearly irrelevant accessory (actually, though, Wii Speak works really well and is very nice to have).

But everyone knows it sells for the controller so what's the big deal? Nobody says "Wii Play has sold 7m+ so it must be a great game."

Hopefully more games will support Wii Speak in the future, it'd be great to be able to hear someone curse you when you take them out with a red shell in Mario Kart.

Well The Counduit is supposed to support it.

Those numbers are horrible news on a YtY basis for the PS3. Comparing Nov. 2007 to Nov. 2008, Wii more than doubled their console sales, the 360 increased by about 10%, but the PS3 dropped 19%.

Yes they are, but I'm sure the Tsunami is coming any day now for Sony.

I keep thinking that bluray will help the PS3 any day now. I mean, it's really the only reason I've ever considered a PS3. I have never even briefly entertained the idea of getting a 360 because of the hardware failures. More and more people will be wanting bluray players, right? Right?

I mean, I'm not even an HD whore and I wouldn't mind having a bluray player.

The only bad thing about a PS3 is that it's in last place and gets treated that way. COD: WaW online support for the PS3 version is crap so far. It's a great system, my favorite of the three now, but they bobbled the ball and the Wii is a juggernaut.

Damn good system though MJ4H, and the BR is indeed nice to have.

This reminded me of being in the store the other day. Someone's mom was getting info about systems from a Target employee and I could see her trying to absorb the actual differences between the different 360 models, and of course the arcade (I think that is the model name) that is $199 just naturally seemed to be what she kept going back to. It's pretty simple to me, PS3 is too expensive compared to the others when mom's do a lot of the buying and see no difference between the systems.

Totally agree. The 360's pricing IS the reason it's remaining competitive. When the pricing reaches the point where you can buy 2 360's for the price of one PS3 as it is now, people can justify the purchase of a system that they know has quality issues. As someone said before, if it breaks a couple of years down the road, you can still buy another one and end up paying the same thing (or less on the second one as prices will drop in the future).

The PS3 was beating the 360 in sales for the first 2/3 of this year because the price difference wasn't as great. Until the PS3 drops to a $299 model next year and makes it a bit more competitive, the 360 is probably going to do better than the PS3.

Again, as already stated- Wii owners are more than getting the shaft on these sorts of things. The Wii gets treated as the bastard stepchild by devs and still is selling more copies of anything remotely worth playing.

SI

Seeing that the Wii is horribly underpowered, does not output a high definition signal, and with a inaccurate controller that only works well with specific types of games, isn't that to be expected?

No.

Well, you can make a game that ports very well across 3 platforms (360, PS3, PC) or develop a game for the Wii that doesn't carry over well to the other 3 platforms and has a customer base that is finicky about anything that isn't made by Nintendo.

fixed

Okami
Zack and Wiki
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
and on, and on, and on

There's a large list of games for the Wii now that have very positive reviews and you can probably count the games that that sold well and weren't made by Nintendo on one hand.

I agree, there are some great games. Very few approach the quality of most Nintendo games, though. And the ones that do tend to sell pretty well.

Anyway, blah blah. 3rd parties shaft the Wii with sub-standard ports 99% of the time is the point. And no it isn't acceptable because the Wii isn't HD capable.

I agree that the Wii does get the shaft and some of the blame definitely goes to the studios, but I just wanted to point out that blame also falls on Wii owners (they need to support the good games that aren't made by Nintendo if they want to see more good games not made by Nintendo) and even Nintendo as well (the lack of even a small hard drive is a big issue).

Let's be fair- Okami was already on the PS2 and it didn't sell all that great there with an even larger install base than the Wii has. Both systems have sold around 150K.

I can't speak for others but I own Zack and Wiki and Boom Blox. As as aside, Boom Blox has some funky ratings- 85% on gamerankings but IGN only gave it a 8.1 and Gamespot a 7. But let's not kid ourselves- lots of good games don't sell well. Neither has been a complete bust, either, each selling over 500K.

And it's not as if all 3rd party games don't sell on the Wii. Mario and Sonic at the Olympics (Sega) at over 6M, good for 7th, and Sonic and the Secret Rings is almost 2M. Guitar Hero 3 rounds out the top 10 at over 3.5M. Both Resident Evil games have gone Platinum. Both Rayman games are at 1.5M. Lego Star Wars: the Complete Trilogy for the Wii has outsold both the PS3 and 360 combined at over 1.5M.

But, again, the problems is twofold with lots of shovelware burying the good games and lots of devs half-assing anything Wii, making the problem worse.

I'm really curious to see how GH: World Tour and Rock Band 2 do for the Wii since Activision went a bit further out of their way to dev for the Wii than Red Octane. However, Rock Band 1 completely stiffed the Wii on features and they improved quite a bit.

SI

Also, along with development budgets- how about ad budgets. Has anyone seen ads for a Wii-exclusive 3rd party game? It was hard to watch tv and not see an ad for GTAIV or MGS4 before they came out. Or Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed or Bioshock. Or, hell, any Tom Clancy game or EA Sports game or Music Game.

But are there ads for any 3rd party Wii games? No, unless they're something like "Here's a multi-platform game, and in the last 10 seconds we'll say 'Also available on the Wii and PS2'" and that's the only advertising blurb.

If you don't even spend a minimum baseline of money, don't be surprised when you don't make money even when making money on the Wii is like shooting fish in a barrell if you're halfways competent.

SI

you see them often enough on the Cartoon Network.

Boom Blox was advertised on TV quite a bit.

Call of Duty and the EA Sports games are on the Wii so they're getting advertising as well.

But, lets be honest here, pretty graphics are easier to sell through TV advertising and the Wii simply doesn't compare. That's why when Call of Duty or an EA Sports game is shown its going to be the PS3 verison or the 360 version and then at the end of the ad they'll mention its also available on the Wii. Nintendo has also been making games a certain way for 20+ years and it differs a lot from what is currently mainstream as far as videogames go. So you can do something you're not familiar with, try to emulate Nintendo, and probably end up with a shitty game or you can stick with what you do best and make First-person shooters and action games which play very well on 3 platforms and appeal to a large number of gamers right now.

You also have to point the finger at Nintendo as well. The made hardware with some major limitations that prevent developers from doing direct ports. The big GoY candidates this year are Fallout 3, GTA4, MSG4, Gears of War 2, Left 4 Dead, and Little Big Planet. Not a single one of those would be possible on the Wii hardware (I know 3 of those are exclusives but the point is they wouldn't be possible on the Wii to begin with). Nintendo is also about 5 years behind when it comes to online content which really makes them look bad in the eyes of your teenagers to mid 20s gamers.

Nintendo made a solid console that appeals to a lot of people, but if they want 3rd party support they need to make hardware at least in the same ballpark as Sony and Microsoft and they need to step up their online support.

Okami - had disappointing sales on the PS2 (with a far larger userbase mind you) and the Wii port met Capcom's expectations. Also the Wii version was criticized for wonky controls and having a more subdued parchment filter effect that gave the PS2 version such distinct graphics. Even Nintendo Power said "just play the PS2 version" in it's review. Still 300,000+ sold in NA/Europe (link), not bad for a non-advertised, inferior port of a game that wasn't a big seller on the most successful home console of all time.


Zack and Wiki - over 300k sold (as of June) according to one of Capcom's financial statements, if you've played it you'd know it wouldn't exactly have required an MGS4-esque budget. link for 300k figure

No More Heroes - the best selling game ever created by the developer, and a sequel is coming for the Wii. Around half a million sold worldwide.

Boom Blox - 450k sold as of June and was "continuing to sell well" according to EA. Again, it almost assuredly made money and a sequel is coming for the wii. link

Then there are multiplatform games that sell best on Wii, like Guitar Hero, Tiger Woods, the recent Shaun White Snowboarding, etc. Hell, as mentioned in a few posts back, Rock Band on the Wii outsold it's sequel (a recent release) on the PS3/360 last month. Not to mention that other than Wii Music and Animal Crossing Nintendo left the biggest sales season of the year wide open for third-parties to exploit, so the usual excuse of "omg nobody can compete with Nintendo" has even less merit than it ever did.

There have been at least ten (15 if you go by vgchartz) third-party million sellers for the Wii so unless you're some horribly disfigured mutant you won't be able to count them on one hand.

I know that since this is the Internet people like to spout off ignorant meme posts like it's 2006 (lol 360 sux RROD and who pays for online, lol PS3 $600 and no good games, lol Wii is just for grandmas, babies, and Ntards) but if people actually paid any attention they'd realize that while Nintendo software sells great, third parties can, have, and will continue to sell a lot of games on the platform as well.

Are we seriously going to consider 300k a successful game for a console with an install base over 41 million? I mean, that barely puts it in the top 100 and just ahead of Barbie Island Princess' 270k sold. That's one hell of a prize for a solid game. 500k for one of the 7-8 best reviewed games on the system? Its successful because its the developer's best selling game ever?

That's a different argument, though, because you missed the point of my posts altogether. The point was, and I made it pretty clear, that the fault doesn't fall strictly with the developers for lack of 3rd party support on the Wii. If you pull up the sales charts for the PS3 and the 360 you see that games that get good reviews generally sell pretty well. The Wii is all over the place. Carvnival games is a steaming pile of crap and it sold over 2.5 million copies (a bit more than 300k). Nintendo has 13 of the top 20 selling games on the platform.

So why would a big company work hard to release a good game on the Wii when they could make a game without the hardware limitations for the PC, 360, and PS3 and feel comfortable about it selling well if its good?

Your game doesn't have to sell like Mario Kart to make money. If you're Grasshopper and all of your games have sold 100k-200k (again some on the PS2 which had a higher userbase that the time of those releases than when NMH came out on Wii) at the most yet you've stayed in the business for years, then you make a Wii game that sells close to half a million, that isn't a success? Have you played No More Heroes? If so, can't you see that such a game doesn't require a massive budget like some of the bigger games on the HD consoles?

Also, just because a shitty game sold well doesn't erase the money you made from your good game that sold well. The PS2 had a bunch of crappy games that sold well (50 Cent's game sold over a million ffs), that's part of being the market leader.

Good games can and have sold poorly on the PS360, like Mirror's Edge, Valkyria Chronicles, Tales of Vesperia, and Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway. Hell, Stranglehold practically bankrupted Midway.

You're right that the lack of quality third-party games isn't all on the developers, it's more the fault of the third-party publishers that are afraid to take a chance on doing something different despite the clear evidence that good games aimed at core gamers can sell well on the Wii.

If it's all about the graphics and using the latest and greatest hardware, why don't they go PC exclusive? Top-end PCs are far more powerful than the 360 and PS3, why make technical compromises?

Did I say all games that reviewed well sold well? No. But your chances of selling well are better on the PS3 and 360 with good reviews than they are on the Wii.


Because you can develop for all 3 and hit an install base larger than the Wii's without having to deal with hardware limitations? Pretty crazy, I know.

For the record, and in order to prop up my fanboy cred, I've owned a Wii since January of '07 and have around 20 games for it. I'm just realistic about why it doesn't get the support that the other systems get. I can post pics if that's needed.

From VGChartz, number of games with over 1M in sales for each platform:

	1st	3rd	Total
Wii	16	16	32
360	11	44	55
PS3	7	14	21

I don't agree. There just haven't been that many good third-party Wii games. Half of the ten best (by review scores on metacritic) were made by Nintendo, and Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Smash Bros. (the three best) all sold multiple millions.


This is true, I was just saying it's not all about the tech/power.


No need, I believe you. I enjoy my PC and PS3 (not to mention the DS) games fwiw. My bad if you felt I was accusing you of trolling, that was not my intention. Not even the most ardent Nintendo fan is going to argue that companies should stop making games on other platforms, just that a majority of third-party efforts on the Wii have been lousy and the platform will support well-made games (and yes, some bad games too) in general.


Games sell great on the 360 (highest tie ratio around 8-9 with the PS3 and Wii around 5-6), and it's one year head start on the market certainly doesn't hurt.

I know it's early but this line had me cracking up.

SI

I am curious as to why you think having more advanced hardware makes it harder/more expensive to develop for.

I can assure you, quite the opposite is true.

Can we get back to laughing at all the folks who predicted a few months ago that the PS3 would catch the 360 and eventually zoom past the Wii?

It's somewhat silly to even discuss this at this point in time. The premise of those statements by most people were set upon the thought that Sony would have a $299 model available by this holiday season. Obviously, Sony didn't get that done and likely won't until a few months from now. Given the sudden boom in Blu-ray player and movie sales, there's no question that a $299 model would have done much better this holiday season. As it is, we have the 360 with a price cut while the PS3 remains at $399. The only thing that would be surprising would be if the 360 didn't do well after the price cut given the lack of a cut on the PS3. Sony had clear momentum over the first 8 months of this year, then failed to keep it when MS made their price cut.

The PS3 vs. 360 competition will continue to go to MS as long as the PS3 remains at the $399 price point. It's not terribly complicated.

As for the Wii, I continue to be amazed at the defensive nature of Wii owners. While it's selling a lot of units, there's no question that there are some severe concerns in regards to first party/third party sales and the relatively lousy quality of many of the games being released for the system.

It's over (all three places), and has been for a while.

I think that they are no more or less defensive than owners that spent hundreds of dollars on any other system and had that decision ridiculed publicly.

I think the reason that third party games are so unsuccessful so far is the same reason the Wii appeals to people who previously hated console games, and turns off those who previously loved them: the motion controls.

There really has been only one third party game where the developer "got" the appeal of the Wii - Boom Blox. The motion controls are integral to the game. That really has not happened very often. Most third party titles try to use a more traditional analog stick and button control scheme, with one or two "shake the Wiimote" controls added in. People who love the Wii because it does not feature those type of controls are going (and do?) hate those games.

Agreed. Boom Blox was really well done and appealed to both audiences that you mention.

BTW.....the recent commercials that I've seen for Boom Blox are also very well done. Showing lots of gameplay and people having fun playing it. MS and Sony should take some hints in that regard. Their commercials should emulate that formula.

Rayman: Raving Rabbids. Yeah yeah I work for Ubi, but my daughter and son LOVE the "Bunny Game" and it makes heavy use of the controls.

But BoomBlox is definitely awesome.

I did not mean to imply I'd played every 3rd party game - just point out what I thought the problem was that 3rd party developers were having being successful making Wii games. The problem is, they are not making Wii games, they are trying to make traditional console games for the Wii.

Rayman: Raving Rabbids - this was considered a success, no? Enough to produce a sequel anyway. Boom Blox is perhaps not unique, but somewhat a rarity then.

I'm guessing the vast majority of Wii owners don't really care much about those things.
I've had my Wii for about 20 months and I've purchased or played through seven games that each gave me at least a good month of solid game play (I've also purchased a few others like Wii Play that didn't give any):

Wii Sports
Wii Fit
Mario Kart Wii
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Super Mario Galaxy
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Paper Mario

That averages out to about a game every three months. Factor in games for the PS2, DS, and PC and I bet I purchase one game every two months. With a busy job, a two year old son, and all the other entertainment options I really couldn't consume video games any faster than that and wouldn't really want to.

For me its not so much defensiveness about the lack of 3rd party games, but apathy. As long as Nintendo or the occasional 3rd party continues releasing AAAA games every three months or so, I will continue to be very pleased with the Wii. There are already more than enough games I want to buy (Bloom Blox, NMH, etc) that having better third party support wouldn't really add anything for me.


As for all the crappy games released on the Wii, I simply don't buy them. Just like I didn't buy the crappy games released on the PS2 or any console I've owned. Crappy games always get thrown at the market leader every generation. Luckily they're trivial to identify and avoid.

I continue to be amazed that people who attack other platforms are amazed that those owners get defensive...

Laugh at me on the first part. A year or so ago I thought the PS3 would catch up to the 360 in America before either Sony or Microsoft launched a successor console, I was definitely wrong on that one. Heck, now I don't even think that the PS3 will catch up worldwide.

I will say that the current situation feels similar to the Genesis/SNES dustup. Leaving the Wii out of the discussion for the moment, since it's pretty clearly on its own planet (and I suspect the majority of its market share would not defect to either Sony or Microsoft if somehow Nintendo vanished), look at the parallels.

Nintendo was a dominant market leader in 1988, with Sega occupying a minority role with the Sega Master system. They released their new system ahead of Nintendo, launching in 1989, and by 1991 held something like a 60/40 split of the market. Nintendo was seen as vulnerable at that point in time, and eventually recovered to flip the percentages to ~60% Nintendo, 40% Genesis.

Sony was the dominant leader in the last generation, with Microsoft occupying a minority role with the Xbox, and 2-3 years into its lifespan, the 360 is sitting on top with people questioning whether Sony's leadership will continue.

Now, here's the problem - Nintendo's philosophy has *always* been centered around great games on affordable (and profitable) hardware.

Sony's got a $400 boondoggle that was designed to add another profitable product line to the company's balance sheet. It was not designed purely with games in mind, nor with the idea of getting it into as many homes as possible as quickly as possible. As a result, they're in a vulnerable position, and their market share is being attacked by both a direct and an indirect competitor.

I say indirect because even though a large part of the Wii base is the 'blue ocean' gamer, it still has that perception as being a system "for kids," and so parents who are buying a game system for their children still compare all three of them.

See, the problem is just about anybody with an interest in the industry can see a path out of this for Sony, but they may have painted themselves into such a corner that they can't avail themselves of that path. They're not dead yet, but the Romans are rolling the boulder in front of the tomb, and they don't have that whole "Son of God" thing going for them as a way out once that boulder is in place.

Xbox 360 is one million units ahead of the PS3 in Europe (or at least the five biggest European gaming markets).


The momentum gained from the price drop wasn't limited to the North American market. Sony really needs a price drop that they just can't afford at the moment.

Rayman: Raving Rabbids was awesome - I'd put it up there with pretty much any of the first party Wii games.

And, go figure, RRR and RRR2 sold 1.42 and 1.48M copies, good for #21 and #23 on the console, sandwiched around Metroid Prime 3. Wait? So if you make a good game, it will sell on the Wii? Even if you're a third party?

SI

With compliments of that level of backhandedness, I don't know why anyone would be so defensive. :rolleyes:

I mean, it's not as if that paragraph could be broken down into the following sour grapes bullet points:
-I don't know why Wii owners are defensive
-It sells well (understatement), BUT
-sucks {reason 1}
-and sucks {reason 2}

SI

Platform top 10's with numbers drawn from the top 20 report:

Top 10 Wii Titles

1. Wii Play w/ Remote = 796,000
2. Wii Fit = 697,000
3. Mario Kart = 637,000
4. Guitar Hero World Tour* = 475,000
5. Wii Music = 297,000
6. Animal Crossing: City Folk* > 181k
7. Rock Band* > 181k
8. Star War: Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels < 181k
9. Nerf N Strike
10. Link's Crossbow Training


Top 10 Xbox 360 Titles

1. Gears of War 2* = 1,560,000
2. Call of Duty: World at War* = 1,410,000
3. Left 4 Dead = 410,000
4. Fallout 3* > 181k
5. Guitar Hero World Tour* > 181k
6. Fable II* = 181,000
7. Madden NFL 09* < 181k
8. Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe*
9. Need for Speed: Undercover
10. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009


Top 10 Playstation 3 Titles

1. Call of Duty: World at War = 597,000
2. Resistance 2* = 385,000
3. Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe* ~ 141k-181k
4. Little Big Planet = 141k
5. Guitar Hero World Tour*
6. Fallout 3*
7. Madden NFL 09*
8. Need for Speed: Undercover
9. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009*
10. Rock Band 2*


Top 10 Nintendo DS Titles

1. Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia > 181k
2. Mario Kart > 181k
3. Kirby Superstar Ultra < 181k
4. Club Penguin: Eleite Penguin Force
5. New Super Mario Bros.
6. Guitar Hero On Tour
7. Mario Party
8. Brain Age: Train Your Brain in Minutes a Day
9. Brain Age 2: More Training in Minutes a Day
10. Mystery Case File: Millionheir


Top 10 Playstation Portable Titles

1. WWE Smackdown Vs. RAW 2009 < 181k
2. Lego Batman
3. Madden NFL 09
4. Midnight Club: LA Remix
5. Star Wars: The Force Unleashed
6. Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions
7. Iron Man
8. FIFA Soccer 09
9. NBA Live 09
10. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories

* Includes Collector's, Limited, Legendary, Bundled (Guitars) Editions



- No Chrono Trigger :( *grumbles about $40 SNES port on DS* still a great game though

- 360 and Wii software sales >>>> PS3 software, par for the course really

- Has anyone gotten that Wii Nerf game for their kids and have anything to say regarding its quality? I was looking online and only saw two reviews, both said it was decent. Just curious.

- Need for Speed used to be a million seller type franchise. It just came out and clearly didn't do so well. Rumors are circulating that plans for the series in the future have been cancelled.

- Are Rock Band 2 sales affected more by the economy or by the sequel coming out relatively soon after the original?

I don't think it's an either/or proposition.

I think it's probably more a factor of incredible DLC support. Because Rock Band 1 still enjoys such robust support, there's not a mass movement to Rock Band 2, the way we usually see with the Guitar Hero franchise.

So when a DLC song is released, it is available for Rock Band 1 and 2?

Yes. All DLC is compatible with both games. This is also true of the track packs that are exportable to the hard drive.

That's pretty cool, now I get your point, that probably would have a large effect on the sequel's sales.

Or at least spread those sales out. There's no rush to go get it now now now because there's always new music to get.

So you don't have to pay $60 for it...you can wait and get it for $45, say.

I don't get why they released RB2 when they did. It was way too soon after RB1. They should have milked RB1 for another year, done the DLC stuff, and then dropped RB2 in September of '09.

So are you going to address the point or just write it off as sour grapes? I think SackAttack did a good job of making the points without any complaints of perceived bias. I think his points regarding there being just enough games to keep him busy is a very good one. I think the PS3 is very similar in that regard (new exclusive every few months to play). His point is spot on regarding Sony moving forward from here and it's exactly why gstelmack's comment seems silly at this point. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE knows exactly what needs to be done to put Sony in a position to compete and outsell the 360. The problem is that the message hasn't been received by Sony, so many of the predictions based on common sense management fall flat on their face at this point due to Sony's unwillingness to make the right move. It's mind-boggling to be honest.

World Tour, mostly. They had to react to that. Just like there was an anti-GH backlash for a while after Rock Band because "this is way cooler," they couldn't afford to see a similar backlash against the RB brand when World Tour came out.

Gents, I need some help.

This is coming from somebody who was a massive console gamer back in my day. My day being 10 years ago, as I am only 21 years old now. Well, I left console games and went to pc gaming and am FINALLY going back to console gaming. Back then, my parents would buy me whatever I wanted. Now, my poor college ass is looking to be cheap.

I'm only taking the plunge because my older brother is going to give me his 360 as he only plays his PS3 now. I have a couple of questions.

I want to put this in my bedroom. I would put it in the living room with the HDTV, but it's just would be easier to have it in my bedroom.

In there I have a regular, old-ass, tv that would probably not be good to use, but I have a Samsung 204BW 20 inch computer monitor. I figure I can use a VGA adapter to hook up to that, correct? The problem is the RCA cables, as there is no where to plug them in to the monitor and there is there no where to plug into the speakers I have, which are these:

Amazon.com: Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX Certified Computer Speaker System (Black): Electronics

What do I do? That is probably such a stupid question, but like I said, I have been out of this game since the old-gen, and the new-gen is totally out of my element.

So:

1. Above

2. I understand the xbox has reliability issues. I'm not sure what he has for the system, but just in case, what are the must buy things to help me, and the system.

3. He has had this system for three years, since it came out pretty much I think. The warranty has to be up. Once this baby dies, am I toast? Basically, enjoy it while it lasts?


Thanks guys!

1) Chances are the monitor has a line in. I think there's an adapter out there that'll let you 'reverse split' the RCA audio into a single line in and plug that into a monitor. Not ideal, but since you're looking to be cheap and the alternative would be a new speaker system or a 5.1, a few bucks for one of those adapters is probably the way to go.

2) I don't really buy the notion that there are specific accessories you can use to prevent issues. i would say it's going to be primarily environmental. Keep the room temperate and keep the Xbox off of heat-conducting surfaces. Beyond that, pray.

3) Give Microsoft a call. They may not sell you an extended warranty because of its age, but it's not totally out of the realm of possibility.

That said, because it's older than three years, they might sell an extended warranty that covers everything *except* the red ring, so...

Samsung 204BW 20" Widescreen LCD Monitor - 6ms, 700:1, WSXGA+ 1680x1050, DVI, VGA, Black, Height Adjustable, 16:10 Aspect Ratio at TigerDirect.com

The above is the monitor, see there are no builit in speakers.

Is there a coupler you think that would work for headphones, maybe?

It needs to have an aux port or a line-in port for a coupler to work. If it doesn't have that, then you need a separate 2.1 or 5.1 system to hook the 360 audio into.

A new game in the Metal Gear Solid has been announced in Famitsu magazine :cool:

for iPod Touch/iPhone. :mad:

Wonder if a pair of headphones with that would be easy to find.

This is turning out to be more hassle then I anticipated :D

Sure. You can get the...X3 headphones, I think, from Best Buy. Headphones that you can use for both game sound and Xbox Live chat. They're only about a hundred bucks.

I've heard that those headphones are excellent. I've been considering purchasing a wireless headphone set to use on my PS3. That may end up being the one.

You can use something like this:

Audiogear.com

You can plug in the male RCA jacks and plug in the male audio sterio mini jack so the audio from your XBOX goes into your headphones.

But isn't World Tour just the reaction to RB1? I don't follow the exact details of these franchises super closely, which probably puts me in line with the average consumer, and in my eyes RB1 = GH:WT = RB2. Aside from track lists, I honestly don't see the difference... oh, except that GH3 sucked and RB1 has huge acclaim, so I'd purchase RB1 over GH:WT if I could choose.

I honestly think the Rock Band guys should have just spent some money on advertising RB1, especially advertising all the DLC, maybe thrown out a DLC "expansion" in November, and focused on RB2 for Q3 '09.

Word of mouth was going to help GH:WT a lot. I know personally that a lot of the kids in my extended family raved on pre-release about how the GH:WT had 5 pads instead of 4 and it had cymbals! To us, it doesn't mean all that much. To kids under the age of 14, it's the latest and greatest and the cool thing to buy.

You see the same phenomenon with games like Madden. Most of us realize it's basically a roster update most years with some PR talk thrown in to promote a feature or two that doesn't enhance the game that much overall. But that same PR talk and word of mouth makes it the greatest Madden ever in the 14 and under crowd, resulting in huge (though declining) sales of a game that really isn't much of an advance over the previous version of the game.