FOFC Literature Draft - Picks Thread
 

Let the games begin! The rules are discussed in the previous thread, FOFC Literature Draft.

Please make your picks by copying the below list and placing your selection next to the appropriate category. Bold your current selection and keep your selections through each round. I will also try to keep this thread up to date with current selections.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Label your selection like so:

Autobiography: 1.1 A Man and His Sandwich, Pumpy Tudors

The order, selected randomly by http://www.random.org/lists/ is:

A grid of selections can be viewed on Google Spreadsheets.



Round 1

1. Chief Rum, The Holy Bible, God [History]
2. cartman, The Lord of The Rings Trilogy, J.R.R. Tolkein [Series]
3. st.cronin, The Dead, James Joyce [Short Story]
4. Maple Leafs, Hamlet, William Shakespeare [Fiction]
5. DaddyTorgo, The Foundation Series, Isaac Asimov [Series]
6. NoMyths, On the Origin of Species, Charles Darwin [Non-Fiction]
7. Warhammer, The Iliad, Homer [Poem]
8. larrymcg421, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, Mark Twain [Fiction]
9. Izulde, "The Waste Land", T.S. Eliot [Poem]
10. Axxon, Danse Macabre, Stephen King [Non-Fiction]

Round 2

1. Axxon, Harry Potter, J.K. Rowling [Series]
2. Izulde, Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov [Fiction]
3. larrymcg421, Paradise Lost, John Milton [Poem]
4. Warhammer, The Chronicles of Narnia, C.S. Lewis [Series]
5. NoMyths, The Divine Comedy, Dante Alighieri [Poem]
6. DaddyTorgo, Autobiographical Notes, Albert Einstein [Autobiography]
7. Maple Leafs, The Diary of a Young Girl, Anne Frank [History]
8. st.cronin, 1984, George Orwell, [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
9. cartman, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
10. Chief Rum, A Christmas Carol, Charles Dickens [Short Story]

Round 3

1. Chief Rum, Walden, Henry David Thoreau [Autobiography]
2. cartman, The Cask of Amontillado, Edgar Allan Poe [Short Story]
3. st.cronin, Dune, Frank Herbert [Series]
4. Maple Leafs, War of the Worlds, H.G. Wells [Fantasy/Sci-Fi]
5. DaddyTorgo, Children's and Household Tales (1857 - 211 stories), The Brothers Grimm [Children's]
6. NoMyths, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams [Series]
7. Warhammer, Catch-22, Joseph Heller [Fiction]
8. larrymcg421, 3.8 Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler [Autobiography]
9. Izulde, The Musketeers Saga - The Three Musketeers, Twenty Years After, Le Vicomte de Bragelonne, Louise de la Valliere, The Man in the Iron Mask, Alexandre Dumas [Series]
10. Axxon, Shogun, James Clavell [Fiction]

Round 4

1. Axxon, Slaugtherhouse Five, Kurt Vonnegut [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
2. Izulde, The Art of War, Sun Tzu [Non-Fiction]
3. larrymcg421, Communist Manifesto, Karl Marx [Non-Fiction]
4. Warhammer, Ball Four, Jim Bouton [Sports]
5. NoMyths, Friday Night Lights, H.G. Bissinger [Sports]
6. DaddyTorgo, Farenheit 451, Ray Bradbury [Fantasy/Sci-fi]
7. Maple Leafs, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Samuel Taylor Coleridge [Poem]
8. st.cronin, Rabbit, Run, John Updike [Sports]
9. cartman, Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand [Fiction]
10. Chief Rum, The Road Not Taken, Robert Frost [Poem]

Round 5

1. Chief Rum, Charlotte's Web, E.B. White [Children's]
2. cartman, Paul Revere's Ride, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow [Poem]
3. st.cronin, The Diary of Anais Nin, Anais Nin [Autobiography]
4. Maple Leafs, The Cat in the Hat, Dr. Seuss [Children's]
5. DaddyTorgo, Leaves of Grass, Walt Whitman [Poem]
6. NoMyths, Treasure Island, Robert Louis Stevenson [Children's]
7. Warhammer, Flowers for Algernon, Daniel Keyes [Short Story]
8. larrymcg421, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Washington Irving [Short Story]
9. Izulde, North Dallas Forty, Peter Gent [Sports]
10. Axxon, The Miracle of Castel di Sangro, Joe McGinniss [Sports]

Round 6

1. Axxon, The Lottery, Shirley Jackson [Short Story]
2. Izulde, Night, Elie Wiesel [Autobiography]
3. larrymcg421, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, L Frank Baum [Children's]
4. Warhammer, Profiles in Courage, John F. Kennedy [Biography]
5. NoMyths, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, Frederick Douglass [Autobiography]
6. DaddyTorgo, The Death of Ivan Ilyich, Tolstoy [Short Story]
7. Maple Leafs, The Analects of Confucius, Confucius [Non-Fiction]
8. st.cronin, The Second World War, Winston Churchill [History]
9. cartman, Casey At The Bat, Ernest Thayer [Sports]
10. Chief Rum, 6.10 Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card [Series]

Round 7

1. Chief Rum, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sleep, Phillip K. Dick [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
2. cartman, Kama Sutra, Mallanaga Vatsyayana [Non-Fiction]
3. st.cronin, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Robert Pirsig [Non-Fiction]
4. Maple Leafs, Paper Lion, George Plimpton [Sports]
5. DaddyTorgo, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Luo Guanzhong [Fiction]
6. NoMyths, Neuromancer, William Gibson [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
7. Warhammer, Frankenstein, Marry Shelley [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
8. larrymcg421, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Jules Vern [Sci-Fi/Fantasy]
9. Izulde, The Little Prince, Antonie de Sainte Expury [Children's]
10. Axxon, The Canterbury Tales, Jeoffrey Chaucer [Poem]

Round 8

1. Axxon, Where the Sidewalk Ends, Shel Silverstein [Children's]
2. Izulde, A Game of Thrones, George R.R. Martin [Fantasy/Sci-fi]
3. larrymcg421, The Histories of Herodotus, Herodotus [History]
4. Warhammer, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Edward Gibbon [History]
5. NoMyths, The Adventure of the Speckled Band, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle [Short Story]
6. DaddyTorgo, History of the Pelopennisian War, Thucydides
7. Maple Leafs, The Confessions of St. Augustine, St. Augustine of Hippo [Autobiography]
8. st.cronin, Light in August, William Faulkner [Fiction]
9. cartman, The Complete Calvin and Hobbes, Bill Watterson [Children's]
10. Chief Rum, Sweet Science, A.J. Libeling [Sports]

Round 9

1. Chief Rum, Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy, Isaac Newton [Non-Fiction]
2. cartman, The Twelve Caesars, Suetonius [Biography]
3. st.cronin, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Roald Dahl [Children's]
4. Maple Leafs, The Gift of the Magi, O. Henry [Short Story]
5. DaddyTorgo, Two Treatises of Government, John Locke [Non-Fiction]
6. NoMyths, The Civil War: A Narrative, Shelby Foote [History]
7. Warhammer, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith [Non-Fiction]
8. larrymcg421, Tarzan series, by Edgar Rice Burroughs [Series]
9. Izulde, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer
10. Axxon, The Gulag Archipelago - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn [History]

Round 10

1. Axxon, The Autobiography of Alice B Toklas, Gertrude Stein [Autobiography]
2. Izulde, "The Snows of Kilimanjaro", Ernest Hemingway [Short Story]
3. larrymcg421, Eight Men Out, Eliot Asinof [Sports]
4. Warhammer, Winnie the Pooh, A. A. Milne [Children's]
5. NoMyths, The Catcher in the Rye, J.D. Salinger [Fiction]
6. DaddyTorgo, The Boys of Summer, Roger Kahn [Sports]
7. Maple Leafs, The Six Enneads, Plotinus [Series
8. st.cronin, Lucktown, Bryan Penberthy [Poem]
9. cartman, All The President's Men, Woodward and Bernstein [History]
10. Chief Rum, The Brothers Karamazov, Fyodor Dostoevsky [Fiction]

wademoore and Lathum graciously volunteered to drop out if the number surpassed 10. I was looking forward to seeing both of them participate, but it was easier on me to accept their offers and move on. :) This also allows me to discuss things behind the scenes with wade without an risk of impropriety. :D

This is starting on a Friday night, so I'm not going to push people to do much over the weekend. If you can make selections, that's fantastic, but I don't expect us to pick up much speed until Monday.

As mentioned in the previous thread, feel free to discuss choices, both observers and participants. Lively debate is expected and encouraged, but please don't give suggestions within the thread. Don't be that guy.

I'm mos def looking forward to seeing how this rolls.

lol

You plagarized HA!!!!one111one!!!

+1

I'm just not strong enough when it comes to literature to participate, but I'm really looking forward to following this one, great idea for a draft.

Wow, the pressure is on! I didn't expect to be the one setting precedent.

I have one book in mind. And it could fit in many places. I think I will place it where my knowledge is weakest.

The issue is...author. Is it various? Do I, by selecting this work, eliminate all other works by these various authors? The good news is, I don't think much else of what they wrote has survived the millenia.

The author could also be God. But he hasn't written too many bestsellers. I'll let lordscarlet determine if he will accept my "God" authorship, or if it should be "various".

Chief Rum selects...The Holy Bible by God

I will place this work in the History category. My intent is for this work to be as it is commonly accepted by the general Christian faith in today's world, where disagreements of inclusion or exclusion of particular books be settled by relying on that version which is closest to the Roman Catholic faith.

Chief Rum's list

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History--The Holy Bible by God (1.1)

Here's to follow lordscarlet's rules.

Should have been non-fiction :)

I cry foul.

God didn't write the Bible. The bible is a compilation of many different letters and individual writings and stories.

Those of faiths that use the Bible claim God inspired those different authors.

Putting aside faith, this is, whatever the source, a story told more or less chronologically of the history of the Jewish and then Christian faith. And this story has largely been held within one book since the 4th century. No one carries particular individual books or letters in the Bible. They carry and refer to The Bible itself as a whole.

So I would argue it is one work as a whole, which tells a history (which is why I put it where I did).

But I will leave it to lordscarlet to judge, and will select another work if he rules it cannot be used.

As an atheist I find the Bible to be mostly fiction, although there is some personal guidance tips to be found in there.

See what I mean about several potential categories in which it could fit? :)

Maybe a spiritual section is needed? Lots of spiritual books

The Old Testament is largely a historical record, sure, but the New Testament isn't a history in my opinion.

Wow, you made the very first play I considered and in the very category I would have placed it. I decided that I wouldn't though since I don't feel it has only one author. I certainly won't argue against it being accepted and I applaud the choice as appropriate as 1,1.

I disagree. The bible is mostly history with a good bit of personal and practical guidance and a small amount of the supernatural mixed in.

Read the book. You'll find tons more war stories, murders, family feuds etc than you'll find water turning into wine though it's obvious which is going to sell more books. SHURG

Another thing, the New Testament is actually really old. I think it should be called the Old Testament and the Most Recent Testament.

Bonus points to the first to name where that came from. :)

On the contrary. While the time span covered is much shorter, the New Testament, in all four of the Gospels, clearly follows from the Christ's birth to his crucifixion and Resurrection. This is followed by the Acts, which detail the years immediately following, and then the Letters, which came later than that (although there is much argument as to the exact timing of the writing of the letters). And Revelations clearly deals with the end of all things, beyond which no story can go.

So there is certainly a chronological record being shared (and since most of it dealt with actual events-as related therein, and not the "predictions" of Revelations), it is still very much a historical record.

Which version are you going with, Chief? There have been several.

I tried to address that above by stating that rather than going with a particular version, I was using the term of the Holy Bible in general, with any disagreements in form to turn to whichever version Roman Catholicism most closely follows today.

If I had to choose a version, I would probably go with King James, but I left it vague for the very reason that I thought naming a specific Bible version could lead to others selecting The International or The New Age or some other version, and that would only serve to muddy the waters.

In the end, I guess that is left to lordscarlet's discretion as well. If he allows me to submit the Holy Bible as a pick but requires me to pick a version, I will go with the King James Bible. But if he does all this, I hope he will not allow other versions of the Bible to be selected.

BTW, if he does forbid other similar selections, but allows the texts of other religions (like the Koran, which of course is wholely different from the Bible), I wonder how he will handle the Torah (sp?), the Jewish holy book? I am not Jewish, so I would not know, but my understanding is that it is essentially the Old Testament written in Hebrew, is it not?

That's where one of the problems lies, Chief. The Torah/Old Testament was published as a single work before any version of the Bible containing both it and the New Testament was published. It is still followed separately in the Jewish tradition, and thus doesn't merely form a series of chapters in one single text. Another issue is that the chapters have specific, identifiable authors in many cases (or at least attributed ones). To say that God "inspired" these writers doesn't attribute authorship so much as inspiration. It's a thorny issue.

My sense is that we are and should be required to point to a specific text, rather than lumping all versions of a text into a generalized name embracing all of them. As such, using the King James Bible is a decent bet. Arguments for other versions of the Bible would also be compelling.

I'm going to side with the argument for specificity, and so it would probably be a good idea to edit your pick to reflect the King James version.

Well, as to your first issue, is the Torah, word for word, the Old Testament? Or are there any key differences? I knew one is written in Hebrew. Given the different languages, the different religious perspectives from which they come from, and the fact that the Bible has wholely new material not present in the Torah, I feel at least that it can be considered a distinct and separate work.

As for choosing a version, lordscarlet addresses this, mentioning later versions of a story (he specifically mentions anthologies, but I think this situation is analagous) not being separately available to different drafters. The fact is, there is only one original source material for this work, and it is as a whole known as The Holy Bible. Whichever version one chooses, it is merely an arbitrary version which chooses some parts of the original and rejects others, and which uses different word choices, as a result of both meaning, interpretation and translation issues.

It would be like choosing the English verson of Crime & Punishment. Is it not likely that the translation from Russian to English has lost some of the beauty in Dostoyevsky's word choice, which was perfected through his being raised in Russia and using that language his whole life? You could argue that the English and Russian versions are similar, but not exact. Would it then be fair for someone to select the Russian version and then another the English version? IMO, that would be a distinct violation of the intent of lordscarlet's rule prohibiting repeat choices.

The King James, the New Age, whatever--it was all parsed from the same original source material. I don't intend to claim a version of the Bible. I intend to claim the entire original work, from which all subsequent versions have been derived. And that was my original intent when I announced my choice (as I stated therein).

And there is no limitation on number of authors for a work, so far as I can tell. As long as the work is distinct and disparate, a stand alone, it should be eligible regardless of the number of authors. The Old Testament is largely written as first hand historical accounts. So while authors can't always be specifically named, I think it rises above "anonymity". And, throwing aside historical issues of proving authorship, it is reasonably stated in all New Testament books (the ones widely accepted, that is) who the author is.

And there are categories here where whole series are allowed to be selected. If this qualifies as a series, it could certainly be allowed under the precedent that series can be chosen in some cases. And it also qualifies as a single work (just written over a significant amount of time), as it has come to be contained in one bound book for centuries now (really, 1600 years as one book!)

I told LS he should just eliminate the Bible.

I think for the exercise of this people are way overthinking it. I believe that Chief Rum handled this correctly and the spirit of this and other drafts would show that picking the Bible would eliminate the Bible and all of its incarnations from everyone else - whether it be the on epiece from a collection rule, the author rule, the version rule, etc. What challenge/fun is this if every single person can pick something from the Bible - which they could do if we go by NM's logic.

As for what category it goes into, I think the general deal with these drafts has been that there are no "rules" for the category. If you pick a "bad" category it should hurt you in the voting, but nothing prevents you from putting anything in a category (i distinctly remember some nonsensical pick from bucc in the music draft).

I think the authorship question is the thornier issue. Does this eliminate the Torah and the Koran as choices since they were also written by "God"?

That I can see.
I think there is a "better" author to use, but I think that "god" is relatively logical.

Hrm, I would have thought each book in the Bible should be its own selection, subject to authorship. Ie Exodus would eliminate Deuteronomy (both authored by Moses). I would have imagined that to be the fairest way to handle it.

So then everyone gets to use the bible?

Meh - totally kills the point imo.

Dola:

Let me put it this way.

If someone chose [made up names] Joe's Travellin Show from The Stories of Bob by Bob Smith then no other stories from The Stories of Bob can be selected.

So, if someone did choose a specific book of the bible, it still eliminates the rest of the Bible.

I wasn't planning on using it at all. This is a literature draft.

Shortest. Path to Clusterfuck. Ever.

OK. There is a lot of stuff to reply to, so I will quote none of it. I hope I cover everyone's questions, but if I miss something let me know.

Several of the rules were created specifically for The Bible. Some people thought the rules were designed to rule out the Bible as a selection, some people asked me to disallow it. I really didn't want to make a Bible rule, so I tried to write the rules in such a way that I could address it when it came up (almost inevitably as the first pick).

In reality this has played out exactly as I expected and planned for. So let me clear things up.

If you would like to choose "God" as the author, that is your decision to make. If the "voters" disagree you'll get punished in the winner selection. However, someone did bring up a point that I did not think of. Does this eliminate the Quran, the Book of Mormon, etc? Let me come back to that. To me, a very non-religious person who has never read a page of the Bible, the work "The Bible" refers to all of the books covered by the Christian faith. They are, in a way, a series. I suppose I should have made a rule that says "only one book from a series can be used." I considered it, but could not think of a series that had many different authors. Let's make this an official ruling that any book froma series discounts that series. This should somewhat clear up the whole Bible issue. As for which edition to use,I believe Chief Rum got this right. The wording of the rules is meant to assume there is one true original edition of a work. Translations (such as the King James Bible) are just reprints of the original (maybe a Direcotr's Cut, if you will). Authorship and categorization are up to the person making the selection, so I'm fine with Chief Rum's choices.

Having said that, we still have the issue of religious texts that are not followed by the Christian Faith but are meant as continuations of the Word of God. Honestly I'm not sure how to handle those. I'm tempted to cover those under the "one book in a series" rule that I just created. If that seems wholly unfair, please let me know. As Wade mentioned, my intention was that if someone chose "Exodus" the next person could not choose "Levidicus". I thought it possible that someone would choose one "story" from the Bible and that would close out the Bible for everyone.

It's possible this argument will cover other books, but I don't want to think about it and mention them, because they may be on someone's list. I suppose in a way I have made a set of "Bible Rules" rather than discounting the bible altogether. However, I don't see how we can have a lively debate about the Bible as literature if I disallow it. :)

Its my opinion that drafting The Bible is akin to drafting "20th century French poets." I think that pick is very weak.

The most predictable as well.

The problem with assuming an original Bible is that there's no consensus agreement on what the original Bible is. Different denominations have different books, even. Plus you throw in the whole argument about lost gospels, etc and that complicates the picture even further.

I also take issue with the idea that the Bible is divinely inspired, indicated by God as the author. That assumes monotheism as the "correct" faith.

19th century would be much stronger!

oh and I'm not saying the pick should be disallowed... that's obviously LS's call to make and he's made it.

I'm just saying I have problems with its selection as such.

I think st. cronin and Izulde are making arguments for why it may be a "bad" pick rather than a disallowed pick fwiw.

I think you should just remember that when it comes time to pick a winner. As Wade said, I don't want 15 different selections from the greater works of the Bible selected. I also don't want to rule out religious texts if people would like to choose them.

OK. I am headed out for a large portion of the day. I hope I settled the Bible argument to most people's satisfaction. I won't be checking the board too much, but I will have email access. Feel free to write me at fofc at idledreams dot net and I can hop onto the board if necessary.

Pretty much. :)

Yes, thank you. :) I think its a poor pick, particularly for that category.

Fair enough :)

cartman's list:

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially) - The Lord of The Rings Trilogy (Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King), J.R.R. Tolkein
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

Guess you have never read the Book of Acts.

Cartman with a very strong pick. IMO, there are really only three or four strong series choices, so it was an excellent pick to grab one in the first round.

Cartman, I was told by lord scarlet that that pick would not count as a series, that its considered one book.

dola - is it bad form to suggest what the other good series picks might be? I feel like that is a bit close to tampering...

Rumor is you had a hand in writing that one. ;)

st.cronin is correct. It was simply the publisher's choice to break it apart. Not knowing all of Tolkien, are his other related books considered part of a Middle Earth collection or series, or were they just individual books around a central theme?

Yes. :)

How can that be? It's not one book.

I just realized I could also be describing the Scriptures (individual books around a central theme) but as Chief said, a person of faith believes this collection to be a canon.

I guess we'll have to wait for a public ruling then, as his description of the category fits those books to a T. Yes, it was conceived as a single work, but for obvious reasons was split into three titles for publishing, and the release dates of each book were separated by a period of time as well (July 1954, Sept. 1954, and Oct. 1955)

Cartman, as I mentioned in a pm, lord scarlet explicitly rejected that choice when it was on a list I submitted to him. There was no room left for interpretation.

Two picks, two controversies - if they came out as separate books, no matter whose choice it was, doesn't that make it a series of books?

Only 36 posts on Chief Rums first pick before Cartman selected......Next time try and drum up a little more controversy Chief ;)

LOTR an excellent choice BTW.

This is the text of his pm to me:


Not quite as clearcut a ruling as I remembered.

Really, isn't any story that is published in separate books that is supposed to be read in a sequential order "one book"?

If cartman is happy with his pick, I'm ready to go. But I would like him to confirm that he's sticking with that pick.

So, we're going to disregard physical reality and arbitrarily decide what something was supposed to be rather than what it actually was when it was created? I understand the attempt but think it's a bit misguided and needlessly complicated.

I content that Moby Dick was originally intended to be a short story about a tuna fisherman and a rogue dolphin and I object to it being categorized as anything else. If I create a wiki I can get a cite to back me up on that even.

I don't care for that much subjectivity in the rules since it moves the discussion from the value of the literature itself and puts it on the trivia around it.

Personally, I think its a valid pick. But lord scarlet does make a good point - Tolkien repeatedly denied that it was a trilogy, he insisted it was one book, published in three volumes.

This gets into the question of authorial intent (Normally a BS argument, but in this case valid apparently) vs. popular opinion.

Yes, Tolkien evidently viewed it as one book, published in 3 volumes, but I would argue that because it was published in 3 volumes, that makes it a series, to say nothing of the repeated mention of it in popular culture for sure, possibly even critical circles (this one I'm not sure on), as a trilogy.

Furthermore, if we view LotR as one book, what of other texts that are arguably one book, but done in volume form? Are they one book or are they a series?

its amazing how fast a draft can go down the shithole

As you might imagine. I vote that Cartman's choice stand if he still wants that choice and it comes to a vote.

Yep, I'm sticking with LotR as my pick, so feel free to make yours, st.c.

"His soul swooned slowly as he heard the snow falling faintly through the universe and faintly falling, like the descent of their last end, upon all the living and the dead." - James Joyce, The Dead

Widely considered the greatest short story ever written, and concluding with what some have described as the greatest sentence ever composed in the English language, Joyce's The Dead topped my ranking of short stories, with a massive gap between #1 and #2. This would have been my pick had I had the first overall pick, too.

1. Fiction
2. Single Short Story - The Dead, James Joyce
3. Poem
4. Fantasy/Science Fiction
5. Series (A set of books continuing the same story and intended to be read sequentially)
6. Sport Related
7. Children's
8. Non-Fiction
9. Biography/Autobiography
10. History

I would just like to point out that LotR is not really a series per se. It was one book released in sections.

Minor point, but I think in this day and age that is probably the strongest pick for #1.

Wow, I've never even heard of The Dead before...

I think we need to stick with authorial intent in the case of what category a book is in. There have been books that have been released chapter by chapter in magazines. That does not make that a series even though it was released piecemeal, nor does it make that book a series of short stories.

Short story is a tough category - really only one sprang to my mind when I was brainstorming - but it sure wasn't "the Dead" :) Maybe a good pick, but probably one you could have waited on and nabbed a more popular author in the first round.

But the rules stated that being published in a magazine doesn't count. From the rules:

Must be published in a book. This is an unfortunate rule that has been made to reduce shenanigans. Each work must be published in a book, not a periodical (or book anthologizing a specific periodical). Publication year will be based on the first time published in a book.

Since the first time LOTR was published in a book, it was published in 3 books, I'd say it counts as a series. People can argue and debate over the author's original intent, you can't argue over how it was originally published.

PM me what you had, I'm curious.

The Dead is an excellent story, but I think it was a reach this early in the draft.

To be clear, if we can find a cite showing that the author intended a book be released in a different year than it was we will use that year instead of the published year as well?

I know it's not about the category but if we are actually going to use intent as the criteria then why not use it for all the criteria.

Honestly though, it seems better to use objective criteria rather than subjective criteria so again, the focus is on the work itself.

I agree.

Though I'm a little disappointed that this knocks out all the rest of Joyce. Ulysses and Portrait of the Artist As A Young Man were worthy candidates to appear in someone's Fiction category.

I don't think The Dead is a big reach there, really. Cronin gets one of the elite names in literature in one of the tougher categories to fill.

Ooh, nice pick. The Dead is one of my favourite short stories.

Awesome idea for a draft - I'll enjoy following this one. :)

To me, it's actually one of the easiest categories to fill.

I can think of at least three or four high-quality candidates just off the top of my head.

BTW, as a public service. I won't quote as it's the entire story.

hxxp://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/958/

I know. At first I thought it might be hard but I have my shortlist and I'll get an A List guy here most likely.

For me, it is Araby

Agreed. Once I thought about things, it really is one of the easiest categories to fill.

Did you SEE the video game draft? People were massacred for doing such things. :)

Interesting draft, I'm anxious to follow it if it doesn't veer too far off course..and I think the worst was put out of the way early so that's good.

This is certainly something to consider, but I can think of at least one other Tolkien work that could find its way into this draft.

Nope. Once an author's taken, none of their other works can be used.

Not anymore. One work per author.

Not any more it can't. ;)

Unless you have one of Christopher's works in mind.

Please do not do this. That would be tampering.

How so? He isn't eligible to pick in the category again and it's being done in private in any case. Do we have a no private discussions rule i am unaware of?

:rolleyes: I really hope this doesn't become a draft where the masses are making our choices before we get to them.

Eh, I did get a couple of pms Chief but nothing that would change any of my future picks. But I'm ok if we make that a rule.

Don't worry, Araby is no longer eligible. :D

Do you know what choice he was considering, or what author? What if the author he tosses out has a strory that could fit in different categories, and then based on that PM, he selects that story and eliminates that author for everyone else. What if that author was also the writer of a work I was waiting to use with my pick (two picks after hios next one)?

That seems to be textbook tampering to me.

I really think we need to be discussing only the picks made, and after the picks, we can discuss the work of the authors selected, as they will then be ineligible.

So, can only one work from an author be used? (this is facetious, I forgot, and was amused I got three automatic responses...)

The pms I got were only about the category I had already picked in.

Heh...I'm not as familiar with Joyce's works (I probably could only have picked out Ulysses for sure to start).

I do hope people don't throw out "suggestions", though.

Oh, I believe you, cronin, no more defending of PMs needed on my account. Axxon seemed to have doubts about my point, though, so I felt I needed to respond to him more at length.

He had already made the choice so it didn't matter. Sure, someone could have tipped him off to another author but that can be said with any discussion. For the record, I was one of the PM's and was very sure this author isn't going to pop up in any other categories.

So, going forward, participants are not allowed any discussions about the draft outside of this thread? I don't mind but we need to set that rule now as I didn't think it was implied and I didn't mean to cause controversy. I just was enjoying discussing what was a safe move with someone who couldn't any longer use it.

Sorry for the delay...

Fiction: 1.4 Hamlet, by William Shakespeare
Single Short Story
Poem
Fantasy/Science Fiction
Series
Sport Related
Children's
Non-Fiction
Biography/Autobiography
History

Label your selection like so:

Solid.

I'm glad you're sure. I don't see why it should be an issue to not do this.

As I told you, I don't know what suggestion you made and can't judge whether it might affect his other picks or other categories. For all I know, that will end up affecting his choices later on, whether he says so or not.

Discuss the draft all you want outside of the thread. Just if you are speaking with someone actually in the draft, you should probably avoid talking about other works by other other authors, regardless of category. If you want to talk about that specific work, go for it. If you want to talk about that author, that is fine as well. If you want to bring up another work by an author who has already been selected, that's another way to go. I don't think it's too much to ask that you need do anything that could be construed as tampering.

This is all for fun, but there is some competitive intent here, and I believe we should honor that intent.