July console sales numbers, Volume 2........
 

Console sales numbers for the United States as reported by NPD...

Wii - 425,000
DS - 405,000
PS2 - 222,000
PSP - 214,000
360 - 170,000
PS3 - 159,000
GBA - 87,000

More news out of Leipzig.......

Haze is no longer a timed console exclusive. It will now be released solely on the PS3 and PC with no 360 version planned. (I'd post the article, but it's in German.)

Also, here's the combined July sales numbers for the U.S. and Japan (Europe numbers not out yet).........

Sony response to North American sales numbers......

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/0...efeats-truman/

Bioware responds to display problem complaints from 360 owners that play on SDTV's.

I am one of the 170,000 XBOX360s!!

I'm one of the 13,000 in Canada.

i don't believe those DS and PS2 numbers are accurate. there is no way that many people are still buying a console that is over a decade old. what kid is asking for a PS2 - they want the latest and greatest.

The DS numbers are probably accurate. That thing flies off the shelves, especially in certain colors. Someday you will have a little HA and will learn the joy of Pokemon.

Hell, they're still selling 87,000 GBA's. That's some serious sales for a system that's been replaced by an even more popular DS system.

Sure, nobody's buying a PS2 for their teenager. Hell, those kids probably already have PS2. Maybe a parent will buy one for a 6-year-old kid or something, though. The parent sees a PS2 for $150 or whatever it costs and this metric buttload of games at $20 apiece. On top of that, not only does the kid have games to play, but the parent will probably find some cheap games to play on it, too.

For anyone who finally wants to get into playing video games, the PS2 is a perfect place to start if they're on a budget. Even if someone can afford to spend hundreds of dollars on a next-gen console, many Wii games are $50, and new 360/PS3 games are generally $60. I'd think that a lot of people want to build up a library of cheaper games that'll provide just as much entertainment.

I can't speak for the 200k+ people who bought a PS2 in August or July or whenever this was, but if my wife didn't already have a PS2, I probably would've bought one within the past few months, just because there are so many games out there.

We've just never seen anything like the PS2 before. Games are still coming out for it, and I hear that they're really good games, too. If somebody loves video games and can afford to put money toward that hobby, is there any reason not to have a PS2 in your home at this point?

Dola

Yeah, it's the GBA sales that I really don't understand. Why are people still buying them? I have a good friend who programs homebrew stuff for the GBA, but there aren't that many people out there who want it for that purpose.

There are thousands of GBA titles, it's really no suprise how many units still sell. I believe the new Micro one is around 50-60 bucks, for parents who want to get their kids something cheap, it's great. Of course the DS is a ton better, but not everyone wants to drop 130 bucks so their kids can play some games.

A lot of parents are very uninformed too. I recall a conversation between a mom and kid at EB once going something like this:

Kid: "But mom, if I get this one (DS) I can play Mario (some GBA game he was holding) and these other games too (referring to DS games)."

Mom: "That one costs more money. You can play your Mario game on this one (GBA), so you're getting this one."

425k Wii's sold this past month and I STILL can't find one on my store shelves?
Glad I've had my pink DSL for awhile. ;)

Next console purchases will likely be a PS3 and a PSP2000. Probably the latter first, there need to be some games worth playing on the PS3 for me to buy that.

/tk

I work with lots of poor families that can't afford a PS3/360/Wii who have told me that they are buying/have bought a PS2 this year.

Also, I see plenty of people at work whose "fat" PS2's have either given up the ghost, or have one or two fingers still holding on. They come in looking at a PS3, see the $499 price tag, look at the slim PS2 at $129 and go "Y'know...that'll tide us over for a couple years."

Happens every day.

I've STILL got my 'fat' PS2 from the release day. Just keeps running. I use it for GH games right now.

My release model died after 3 years. I'm on my 3rd one (bought earlier this year.) I'm sure that accounts for some of the PS2 sales as well.

My fat PS2 still works fine, too. Got it a couple of months after release. I play GT3 on it from time to time.

My release day fat PS2 still works fine too...

Mine conked out in early 2002, but the fat I got in January '02 is still workin' like a champ. And, yeah, I use it mostly for Guitar Hero and Disgaea.

You know, though, speaking of Disgaea, I think I finally played a PSP game I'd *like* to see ported to the PS2 last night. Jeanne d'Arc. It's sort of a manga-style reimagining of the Hundred Years' War. turn-based Strategy/RPG, but with a time component - you have a fixed number of turns each battle to achieve victory.

I mean, I'd like to see the port mainly for volume reasons. The manga part of the game isn't subtitled, and the volume can only go so high on the PSP, so I feel like I'm missing part of the story when I play.

Count me in on release fatty PS2's that are still running strong.

Ditto.

/tk

Mine's been going since February '02 as well. I'm one that would probably replace it instead of looking at a 360 or PS3.

My release PS2 would freeze during the GoW cutscenes, so I bought a new silver one and traded the fat into EB.

I wanted to bring this fun conversation over to this thread because the July thread is dead...

Mizzou said this:


About this quote:


I think my definition of "complimenting it quite extensively" is different than yours. Especially when these are your other posts about it:












So we're talking about the best reviewed game in recent memory (maybe ever) and your only comments about it have been either:

• This game is being reviewed way too early (aka-don't believe the hype).
• This is TOTALLY coming out on the PS3! (no need to buy a 360 to play it)
• Widesreen is nerfed.

I am now convinced that you are a paid Sony messageboard marketer.

BioWare?

Methinks somebody's a wee bit confused there.

Bioshock is many things, but an RPG ain't one of 'em.

Whatchoo talkin bout Willis?

BioWare isn't the maker of BioShock.. BioWare is, on the other hand, makers of Mass Effect, a highly anticipated title coming this fall if I'm not completely mistaken without checking my notes.

Actually I disagree with this wholeheartedly, DS's are really popular with kids and indeed a fair few adults.

The PS-2 is still very much in demand for kids, my kids (13, 8, 4 years old) would prefer me to get him a PS-2 rather than a PS-3 simply because they doesn't like many of the next gen console games (that goes for a 360 also incidentally).

This is I'd expect often the case, factor in that kids can get a lot more games for their pocket money with a PS-2 and you'll see why they're still popular choices imho ...

*I've been trying to persuade myself to get another 360 since I emigrated but apart from the LiveArcade stuff there is only one game which truly appealed to me on the platform ... and I got Overlord on PC ...

Gotta run so I can't elaborate, but look at your final Mizzou quote, then read Coder's (accurate) post. That should clear it up.

It was Mizzou BB Fan who referred to it as a Bioware title in one of the quotes of his that you posted. Also, I agree with your conclusion.

That would be a great assumption if anything you just said in the above quote were what I said.

My comments on being reviewed early were not Bioshock specific. I specifically went out of my way to state that I wasn't implying that the Bioshock review was inaccurate in any way, only that the review of games far before release was a troubling trend, which several people agreed with.

I never stated that people should not buy a 360. I'm not sure why being excited about a game coming out on all systems now qualifies as a knock on the 360. All PS3 owners would love to have Bioshock right now, but that's not happening. With that said, I'm not sure why there's such angst toward PS3 owners being excited to get it in a few months.

I posted the situation about Bioshock's widescreen issue because I know there are some people on this forum that have a 360 on a SDTV. I fail to see how letting them know about the situation is a problem. I'm personally glad that people posted information about the slow frame rates in the EA Sports games because it saved me from the possibility of purchasing an inferior game. You can be sure that I didn't bitch that they were Microsoft paid marketers.

I suppose that posting the comments from the SCEA president this morning with his weak response about the sales figures was another shameless Sony promotion. You don't have to like the stuff I post. If you see stuff that causes concerns or gives information about Sony or MS products, you should post it as well. It adds to the discussion.

Yes, I obviously mismatched companies. My mistake.

All in all, there has been nothing wrong with the individual items that you have posted about Bioshock. It's just the one-sidedness of it all. You can point to a post here or there where you don't bash the 360 or its games, but they're the .01% of your posts about the console war. It's just so transparent that it's hysterical. I honestly think you're a paid shill.

Ah. Gotcha. I never noticed that.

This is why I pretty much quit reading these threads about a month ago. Mizzou's posts are predictable and people seem to bite at each one of them. The threads went from decent discussion to an endless cylce of fanboyisms and contradictions.

Yeah. I am in the market for a new console, so I'm interested in the news, but he's turned me off the PS3 pretty much single-handedly.

Hey I just bought my PS2 a month or two ago.

I'll buy a WII, probably within the next year, but I'm simply not going to throw down serious cash for a game console any time soon. The PS2 numbers show that I'm not alone.

I was in line at Best Buy the other night, and the guy in front of me plunked down a thousand dollars on a PS3 and some games. He then loaded his wife and two young kids into a faded 15 year old Buick, and drove home. My reaction "What the hell is he thinking throwing down a grand on a video console? He has clearly got better things he could be spending his money on" I'm in reasonably good financial position, but no way I can justify that kind of expense.

LOL......if you seriously had your decision changed by a guy posting a bunch of news/discussion about consoles, you seriously need to reevaluate your decision-making processes. I can honestly say that I enjoy reading all of the point/counterpoints, but making that kind of a decision based on this kind of a thread is borderline nutty.

The only decisions I would use this thread for are game decisions where you find out there are major glitches in a game.

Very interesting that you didn't say a thing about the fact that I've posted a lot of things that were just as critical of Sony, their PR and some of their games. Your criticisms are just as transparently biased. If you're going to make a tally list, at least do it well.

Methinks Sony would toss my ass to the curb because I'm the worst paid shill ever given the criticism I've handed out against them. I don't think either side is doing a very good job right now over. MS should have put a dagger in this console war already given Sony's slow start. Sony had one of the worst console launches since Neo-Geo (and that's saying something). It's a Dumb and Dumber war.

Seriously?

Well, thanks for the advice, but I can use whatever I want in my buying decisions. One of my main turn-offs toward Sony is their marketing strategy - which up until this point has included lies, lies, and more lies from official Sony executives, fake blogs, offensive YouTube videos, dead goat carcasses, and I suspect, paid messageboard fanbois.

My continued loss of respect for Sony has definitely contributed to my decision-making process.

Really? I use this board for a lot of things and one of them is getting advice from everyone regarding the advantages and disadvantages of certain products. All input helps.

It almost sounds like you doth protest too much regarding Kwhit's assertion about you being a paid fanboi. Just an observation.

Oh, c'mon. As much as I know you guys love hitting the Mizzou BB Fan pinata, this is just borderline stupid. Before KWhit clarified his statement, claiming that "I base my buying decisions on the fact that I don't like one person on a message board" is just ludicrous.

SI

It's an assertion (at least the Sony fanboy part of it) that a lot of people here have made. And every time they do, he comes back with the same "but I've been critical of Sony too!" response. He doesn't get that we are not buying his act. He posts the occasional bad thing about Sony or the occasional good thing about Microsoft to try and appear unbiased, but 9 times out of 10, his posts easily fall under "good spin for Sony" and/or "bad spin for MS".

He hasn't single-handedly made it so that I don't want a PS3 (I will once it has some good games), but he has single-handedly made it pretty much impossible to discuss consoles on this forum.

I stopped buying Sterling Ice Cream products because I hate you, so it does happen. :p

:(

(wait, there's such a thing as "Sterling Ice Cream"?)

SI

VOTE MIZZOU B-BALL FAN

Sorry, I'm staying out of these threads now but couldn't resist. :)

Agreed, If a person on a messageboard is going to prevent you from using a product you're going to live a helluva sheltered life cause if you think Mizzou is bad, there are thousands of forums out there with millions of people who are much worse.

As much as everyone would like to blame one person, these threads are train-wrecks because everyone cries they're unbiased while making completely biased statements (or enough statements about a particular side that it's obvious they're biased).

A company called Sterling makes ice cream stuff, like freezers. Or at least used to. Dunno if they are still around.

Found this on Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23627728@N00/170215546/

I don't believe MizzouBBF is a paid schill, only because he was equally 1-sided and oblivious to logic in his quest to have the Penguins relocated to KC.

I do agree that he has made discussing the console war intolerable here though. I now only skim his posts for non-biased info (like new GH3 tracks), and I completely ignore any post that quotes one of his posts (as it is simply a pointless logic-based retort that will be responded to with another ridiculous "read what I wrote, that's not really what I'm saying even though it is totally what I'm saying and I'll say it again in different words" post.

Dola

I will credit MizzouBBF with introducing me to the Bill Harris blog though, that got added to my Google Reader and has some interesting moments.

Once again, your bias shows through in this post despite claiming to be unbiased. You're more than happy to point out Sony's screw-ups (which I totally agree with), yet the fact that Microsoft totally lied (and still does to some degree to this day) that they have a major quality issue with most of their consoles is just as bad of a situation, if not worse. Sony's biggest failing is their executive's mouths. Microsoft kept their mouths shut knowing that they sold millions of customers a product that was inherently flawed.

You forgot about Nashville as well. :)

"Lied" and "kept their mouths shut" are two different things. I'm sure you'll be able to go dig up something where MS wasn't truthful, but my perception is that Sony executives have been lying through their teeth, whereas MS executives are mostly keeping quiet.

The quality issue is huge, and it really does suck that so many people are having problems with their consoles. MS's silence and non-denials speak volumes, but I don't recall nearly as many times they have been caught lying as Sony has.

And by the way, you calling me biased is pretty funny.

I'm not biased toward one or the other. I don't know why anyone would be, unless Bill Gates killed your dog or something. I really am trying to figure out which one is best for me. Surprisingly, I'm finding that the PS3 would be the better value for me. Just too bad it doesn't have any great games out for it.

So here's where I am on my thinking on which to buy:

PS3:
Overall, the pros here are the built in BluRay player (which it seems is more likely to win this format war if there is a real winner), built in wireless, and a more powerful processor.

Drawbacks
Not very many games out right now and the pipeline doesn't look quite as strong as the 360's.


XBox 360 (Pro version):
Lots of current games interest me (Bioshock, Dead Rising, Gears of War, Crackdown, NCAA 2007). And the pipeline looks pretty good, especially with Halo coming up.

Drawbacks
I hate having to buy a separate wireless adapter. And that by itself bumps the price up to around $430. That's only $70 less than a 60 gig PS3. So for that $70 I can get a much bigger hard drive and a BluRay player. And if I add a Live membership, that's almost a wash. Oh yeah, and it could die on me with the RROD. At least the warranty is pretty good on this now.



For what I want, it seems that clearly the PS3 is a "cheaper" option now, but I worry about the game selection which is what I would be getting it for. Hmmm.... Difficult decision. Anything I'm missing?

One other thing, aside from the RROD you already mentioned (and which is why I'd wait til the holiday sesaon to buy a 360 if that's what I were to buy...), if you plan on doing much downloadable content (I'm talking games, movies/tv shows, etc, i.e. taking advantage of what MS already offers and what Sony is saying they're going to offer), the 360 has the added drawback that have you have to buy a special 360-specific hard drive if you run out of room on the 20 gigs you start with...and being Microsoft, they rape you for it.

PS3's you can add on any peripherals just like you would for a computer (more or less), so it's easier to "upgrade."

Also, most of the PS2 games (I want to say all, but I'm not sure) are currently backwards compatible via hardware in the PS3, so if you don't already have a PS2, and you want to play PS2 games, you're in luck (and there are a PLETHORA of fantastic games for the PS2).

/tk

Dola,

Forgot to add some stuff.

1. It depends what kinds of games you want to play/if you want any console exclusives, too. For example, Madden 08 is 60 fps on the 360, only 30 fps on the PS3. However, it's being reported that FIFA 08 is going to be 60 fps on both (which leads me to think that the 09 iterations will be 60 fps on both, too). So if you really want good Madden, then maybe the 360 is for you. Or if you want BioShock or Halo, then a 360 is the way to, but if you want Haze or some of the other PS3 exclusives, then that's that...

2. The current PS3's are the ones "guaranteed" to have the hardware backwards compatability. There is a lot of speculation that the next issuance of the PS3 will have that remove, and backwards compatability will be software based, like it is currently on the 360. So if playing PS2 games is important to you, it's worth keeping that in mind...

3. Just for reference, I do consider myself to be more of a Sony fangirl than a Microsoft fangirl. I currently have a PS2, 360 (with problems), DS, and PSP. I got the 360 mostly for some of the exclusives (Halo being the biggest). I haven't picked up a PS3 yet but I plan on it, especially since there will be a way to download on the PS3 and transfer to the PSP. I haven't decided which system I'll buy Oblivion for, other than that I know I won't get it on the PC. ;)

/tk

I have a frustratingly amount of freeze ups with the 360, to the point that I returned NCAA08 because basically every other game or so would freeze the system... It seems mostly EA games, with only an ocassional one with some other graphic intense games. I've always kept the system in a well ventilated area including at one point pretty close to a fan with no luck.

I know some have used and recommended the intercooler for it, but I've also read many negative things about it such as some people having the intercooler literally melt onto their system, and the fact that one of the versions draws power from the main system. It's also not a supported accesorry by Microsoft (or whatever they call it). It's still been something I've been tempted to try just because having some games (like NCAA) unplayable is frustrating but that's also an additional 20 bucks and the potential damage it could do to the system.

I currently don't own a PS3 but I figure I'll just wait til I do then try playing the games I cannot currently play on my 360 on the PS3. So far the experiences with the 360 for me and other people I know has been very YMMV which is disappointing, some people have no troubles at all, others have a paperweight or something inbetween (like me).

FWIW, I've had the intercooler for well over a year and it hasn't melted onto my system or done any harm. I still have never had a freeze up (even with a 8 hour session of Bioshock yesterday which is graphic intensive) and I think the intercooler is helping my cause.

Eagles, my only issue with the intercooler is the fact that it draws its power from the Xbox power supply. That means either the system isn't getting all the power it needs for the stuff on board (including the system fans), or that the power brick is being drawn upon for additional power, which increases the risk of the brick overheating...and that overheating is just as likely to cause a freeze-up as the system itself doing so.

I've had the intercooler for about 15 months and haven't had a single lock up or any issues.

And that's why when I first started having problems with it I had thought about buying one cause I had read here that others had their issues addressed with it but then I read the amazon.com user reviews and I became a bit more reluctant, again it seems YMMV.

I don't have the intercooler and haven't had any issueas. I keep the 360 in an open area, but I do sometimes feel the heat coming off of it so if you have it an area with limited space, it'll probably be a problem. It's also kind of loud. I never noticed it because my PC was louder, but I just got a new PC that is really quiet and now I really notice the 360 when it's on.

A friend got a 360 for Bioshock last week, and bought a couple of original XBox games to play too. Fable and the Street Fighter collection. Fable ran piss-poor. There was slow-down, and it just ran weird and choppy. Street Fighter was more pixelated than it should have been.

I really just want a next-gen console for Rock Band, and considering I'd have to pay for XBox Live and buy a wireless adapter thing... the PS3 as an option has crept back up again. The 360 has some other games I want to play, but I'd also want to play original XBox and PS2 games that I never got the chance to play. If the 360 can't emulate games very well, that's a big blow to me.

Anyone know if most games run like Fable?

The only 2 original XBox games I've played on the 360 have been Forza 1 and Jade Empire. Both of them ran fine. I was thinking of grabbing Fable: The Lost Chapters, too (only $9 on Amazon). I loved the game and have been itching to play it again (traded in the original awhile back) Guess I'll take that off my wish list and just wait for the sequel to get done.

Can somebody remind me what the big confirmed exclusives for each that are going to be released in the next 6 months?

Confirmed exclusives that have been announced for each system:

Xbox 360: Blue Dragon, Halo 3, Eternal Sonata, Mass Effect, Ace Combat 6, Project Gotham Racing 4, Too Human, Alan Wake, Lost Odyssey, Splinter Cell: Conviction

PS3: Lair, Ratchet & Clank, Folklore, Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, Heavenly Sword, Final Fantasy XIII (although who knows when it will land), MGS4, Tekken 6, SingStar

I didn't list Haze for PS3, even though I'm pretty sure it's an exclusive, because EBGames still says it's coming out for 360. Too Human and Alan Wake are *supposed* to be coming in the specified timeframe, but we'll see what we see.

I don't expect them to hit in the next six months either, but I'm listing FFXI and MGS4 just because Mizzou would flay me if I left them off the list. ;)

Cool. Thanks.

There is a list on microsoft's website of which games are Backwards Compatible. Fable is backwards compatible and runs very well on our 360. It's one of my wife's regular games when she gets on the 360.

Edited to add: Ninja Gaiden Black and Winning Eleven 9 both run well for me in BC mode as well. Those are the only BC games that I really play.

Why is Rockband not coming out for the Wii? Does anyone know if there are plans to release it a few months later or something?

It seems to me that games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero shouldn't really need any of the extra graphics horsepower offered by the 360/PS3 to be just as enjoyable.

I've read that this is indeed the case. Not sure when though.

Probably a twofold thing.

1) Rock Band in bundle form is going to be close to as much as the Wii itself. That's going to be a tougher sell when a significant portion of the Wii audience is still new to games than to a pair of audiences used to spending bank on the hobby. Put another way - if you spent $600 on your machine, you're going to have less of a problem spending $200 on the game than if you spent $250 on the machine. It's just psychological.

2) Only one USB port, and that's in the back of the system. What gets it? The microphone or the drums? If I'm not mistaken, both the drums and the mic are going to be wired on the PS3 and Xbox 360, probably for timing-based reasons.

That would be awesome! The Rock Band track list seems to blow GH3 out of the water (never mind the other instruments, etc).

*crosses fingers*

Your first point makes sense, but I'm confused on the second point. Couldn't a person just get a little USB hub (or even have one included in the rock band bundle)?

The big reason they mentioned, I think it was in Game Informer, is that there was no hard drive for downloadable content as that's going to be a huge part of the game. Tho I'm not sure why using the Wii's SD card would be that much different.

SI

The USB port until recently didn't even work with keyboards. I don't know what kind of utility it has at this point in time for actual controllers.

Wii won't load any game-related stuff off the SD card right now. Game saves, VC games, etc. I really wish they'd change that at least for VC games.

Yeah, Nintendo has to do something about the storage at some point. Neo geo games are due on the VC soon, WiiWare games in 2008, people are going to need more space.

I would imagine it is possible to use the gamecube memory card slots for a microphone or something. That's what you do for Mario Party 7 and it works fine. Making it work in Wii mode might be a trick, but Id imagine they could pull it off if they wanted.

Well, the other thing I can think of is, how does Boogie's microphone work? Does it plug into the Wiimote the way the Classic Controller and other attachments do? That would help some for the mic, and then all you're dealing with is the drums.

Yeah I forgot about that. Im fairly certain that either will be done or has been done.

I thought the Wii-mote was revealed to have a microphone in it? The space with the speaker is really a two-way instrument...?

Since these seems to be a good place to ask - anyone heard anything about KOTOR 3 (Sack?) KOTOR ranks up there with Civ2 and FM amongst my favorite games of all time, and the announcement of a KOTOR 3 would almost certainly tip me in favor of buying an XBOX 360 (given the Mass Effect is likely to be on that as well).

I don't know.

BioWare lately has had this thing about doing great RPGs and then having Obsidian come in to do the sequel. I'd like to see BioWare come back for KOTOR 3, but as they're busy on Mass Effect, they may not have any interest.

I'm not sure I'd have any interest in a 3rd KOTOR if Obsidian lets LucasArts push them around like they did 2-3 years ago, for that matter.

There are rumors that KOTOR 3 is being developed and will be announced after Mass Effect, but they don't make sense to me. I can see why they wouldn't want to release them too close to each other, but the idea that they would hold off announcing it doesn't make sense to me. However, you can find links to the rumors by simply googling KOTOR 3 and checking out the first few links.

I own a PS3 and Wii right now. I'm actually more peeved at the lack of quality games for the Wii than the PS3 right now. I see several games that I'm interested in for the PS3 in the next couple of months. For the Wii, I only saw one game (Brunswick Bowling) that I was interested in. Unfortunately, I heard from someone who has a review copy that it's pretty disappointing, which is EXTREMELY unfortunate. I was really looking forward to a career bowling game on the Wii. The Japanese baseball game will now likely be the game I look forward to at this point.

Has anyone picked up Stranglehold?

I played the demo over the weekend and liked it some. My son will really like it.

FYI for the European posters that own a PS3......Lair and Folklore are both being offered pre-order for 15 pounds (normally 40 pounds). It has been confirmed that it is not a price mistake.

Lair
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Lair-PS...141703&sr=1-11

Folklore
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Folklor...141703&sr=1-12

Gamespot is reporting that Gran Turismo 5 Prologue will be a free download.

http://uk.gamespot.com/events/leipzi...tories;story;2

That's simply horrific news. The quality of both games is probably pretty poor. When you start discounting games by over 50% before they've even been released, it's not a good thing. I was really looking forward to Lair. Ugh.

The Wii has been in a drought. No question about it. I'm hoping Tiger '08 is actually decent for it. I can't believe they screwed up the bowling title so badly.

Haven't come up with a list in the last few weeks, but I'd say that of the 10 games I'm looking forward to most, it'd probably be something like 6x 360, 3x PS3, 1x Wii. (Metroid) I'm hoping some sleeper hits come in and save the Wii, but I'm not sure how it'll play out over the next few months. The 360 has the highest likelihood of "surprise" hits simply because of how many games will be released for the system.

Rumors abound that the Halo Wars demo will be out this week on XBL.

Also, the PSN version of Warhawk will be available at 12:00 AM EST tonight. It's $40. The DL version will take up around 800 MB of space on your HDD. Also, Super Puzzle Fighter Turbo HD remix will be available (wife was a big fan of this game).

Uh, considering they're the only retail outlet to do that, it might be just a bit premature to jump off the bridge. I'm still not totally sure that someone didn't f-up some pricing here. But someone said that they got an e-mail saying that price is legit, so who knows. I just find it amusing that a price break by one site suddenly means the sky is falling.

I'd fall over backwards to get either of those games at that price. It would certainly seem as though this price drop is going to be awfully good PR for these two games for Sony. The pre-orders on these two games have gone through the roof. These two games are going to have a big release number in Europe solely because of this deal.

Look Mizzou, no retailer willingly reduces the price of a game that is expected to sell like hotcakes. Much less by over 50%. Combined with the last minute delay of Lair and you have all the signs of a major letdown.

I'm dissapointed in this as Lair was a game I was hoping would be good. I hope I'm wrong and it's as good as Bioshock. But my guess is the game is going to be a major league dissapointment based on the things that have come out so far.

Would I buy the game at that cost? Probably. There has to be some amount of fun in flying a dragon around and setting fire to villages. But this was a game that was pointed at as being better than that. It had some solid buzz around it and nothing points to the game living up to any of the buzz.

Go ahead and tell me I'm an idiot or a PS3 hater or whatever the hell you want. I WANT this game to be great. I just don't like what I'm seeing right now.

I'm simply stating that it's a bit overboard to jump on a game that hasn't even been reviewed yet because one overseas retailer dropped the price. It's just as nutty for me to make a statement that because the game is selling for $60 every other place except Amazon UK that it must be a great game because every retailer is charging full price.

I'm not guaranteeing anything on what the final product will be like as no one even has a copy of the final build at this point. I'm just saying that a price drop by one retailer before a game is released is no indication of a game's quality. If this price drop occurred a week or two after release, I would agree wholeheartedly that it was a bad sign. In this case, it's pretty premature to make any assumptions.

This is a pretty complicated article that I thought the resident developers may be able to assist in translating. My general understanding is that it highlights the tricks that 360 and PS3 developers use to make sub-HD level games look HD......

http://gamers-creed.com/?p=423

Guess we have differing views. Amazon isn't some small, hole in the wall mom and pop. I can't see them lowering the price on a game before the release if there wasn't some bad indicators out there. If it were a surefire hit with a ton of positive buzz, they'd take the full price on the game and get as much as they could for it.

What it smells like to me is a bomb of a game and they are trying to get as many sales as they can as quickly as they can.

We'll see soon enough which one of us is right. If you are, I'll be the happy owner of the game and will be playing it most nights. If I am, we'll all have cheap coasters available to us within the next few weeks.

The problem with that theory is that Folklore has been getting very good reviews and has sold well over in Japan. It doesn't fit the mold your describing at all, nor should it require a price drop to get good sales in Europe. If it were just Lair that had a price drop, I'd be more inclined to agree with your point.

FWIW......you aren't a gamer if you don't have a decent collection of cheap coasters. :)

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that Folklore is going to be more of a niche game. I was incredibly impressed with what I played at E3...but the fact is that it's not a system seller. £15 makes it a must-buy, IMO, and will probably do good things for its overall sales numbers...but I think that kind of niche status is why Amazon would discount it.

It certainly hasn't got anything to do with its quality (IMO).

Lair, on the other hand...I'm a skeptic.

You should really give Mario Strikers Charged a try if you haven't.