Werewolf XLV - ROME! (Game over, post 3425)
 

Starting the game thread a day early; the next post will be the final draft of the rules, following that will be a list of the public roles. After that, I will consult random.org for the secret roles, and send out pms.

We begin on Day I. The deadline is Monday, 9pm Eastern Time.

Day II begins: http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=261

day II ends/day III begins:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=501

day III ends/day IV begins

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=1052

day IV ends/day V begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=1467

day V ends/day VI begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=1966

day VI ends/day VII begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=2324

day VII ends/day VIII begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=2606

day VIII ends/day IX begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=2864

day IX ends/day X begins
http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...postcount=3084

day X ends/day XI begins

day XI ends/day XII begins

in case at some point my pm box gets full email st.cronin at gmail. please put werewolf in the subject.

RULES

2 Consuls

There will be two Consuls, a public role. Consuls serve two day cycles. On their second day cycle, the Senate will elect two new Consuls. The two players with the most votes will be chosen. Consuls have the following abilities: Each day, they may have one Senator arrested for treason. They may not arrest a Consul or Tribune.



1 Tribune of the Plebs

There will be one Tribune of the Plebs, a public role. The Tribune has the authority to veto one vote per day. If he vetos a lynch vote, nobody gets lynched, and both players get freed. If he vetos a consul vote, that post goes empty. In the case that the tribune post becomes empty, the plebs will elect a new tribune. (That is, one will be selected by random.org).



2 lawyers

There will be two additional public roles, the Best Lawyer in Rome, and the Second Best Lawyer in Rome. The lawyers may be hired by any player. When you have hired a lawyer, he may be used in the following ways:



- to defend yourself from an accusation of treason (this will be more effective if the player is, in fact, innocent)

- to represent you in a lawsuit (more on this later)

- you may appoint him as the Senate's lawyer, and prosecute a charge of treason (this will be more effective if the player is, in fact, guilty)



When a player who has hired a lawyer dies, that lawyer becomes richer. Lawyers have some other abilities which are a secret.

THE PUBLIC ROLES LISTED ABOVE MAY BE EITHER REPUBLICANS OR TARQUINISTS TO BEGIN THE GAME



Lawsuits

Each day, you may name a player you feel has wronged you in a lawsuit. (It is not necessary for this lawsuit to be based on anything - all that is required is that you desire to acquire some of that player's wealth.) The following day, this lawsuit will be decided. If you successfully sue somebody, your financial situation will be improved (and your target will find himself poorer). If you sue somebody and lose, there may be negative consequences. There is also a small chance that evidence of treason may come out.



Wealth

No two players are equal in wealth, but which is the wealthiest man in Rome is not known by anybody precisely. Wealth comes into play in the following way: When services are for sale, players will submit secret bids to the gm in the following form: "I wish to purchase service z." The wealthiest player to bid for a particular service, wins the bid. This is different than the way money has been handled in other games. An example of how this works is:

On Day 1, Prostitutia Sexia is offering her services in the Forum.
Player A pms me "I wish to buy Prostitutia Sexia's services"
Player B pms me "I wish to buy Prostitutia Sexia's services"

As GM, I know that Player A is richer than Player B - the players themselves may not know that, they will only know into which level the players fall. So the result of this would be that on Day 2, Player A would have Prostitutia Sexia's services.



What Happens to a Player When Arrested

Each Senator is allowed to vote to convict ONE player each day. The player must get a majority of votes by the Senate to be convicted. When convicted, that player will be tossed off the Tarpian Rock. Any other players in jail will be released, unless a consul issues a new arrest warrant for him. So, for example:



Day 1

Consuls arrest player A and player B

Day 2

Senate votes - player A gets 14 votes, player B 11 votes. Player A then gets thrown off the rock, and player B gets freed. The consuls will then issue two more arrest warrants. If player B is arrested again, he will not go free. Since a majority vote is required, it is possible for both players to go free. It is not possible for more than two players to be on trial at the same time.

The first Consuls of Rome are:

Alanus Teeus
Westvus Fanus
(their term will end upon completion of day 2)

The Tribune of the Plebs is:

Saldanus Lathumus (this is a lifetime appointment)

The best lawyer in Rome is:

Swaggus Swaggus

And the second best lawyer in Rome is:

Ardentus Enthusiastus

The wealthiest men in Rome are:

Bulletus Spongeus
Dodgus Erchickus
Imus Thecrewus

The following Senators are known to be extremely wealthy:
Coffeus Yakus Warlordus
Ironsus Headus
Lonestarus Girlus
Marcus Vaughnus
Schmidtyus Schmidtyus

The following Senators are known to be moderately wealthy:

Abeus Anxietus
Antus Meisterus
Autumnus Leavus
Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus
Pathus Twelveus
Peregrinus Barbarus
Snus Dvlus
Westvus Fanus

The following (remaining) Senators are of ordinary wealth for the Senatorial class:
Alanus Teeus
Ardentus Enthusiastus
Chiefus Rumus
Daddyus Torgous
Grammus Atticus
Hoopus Guyus
Kayus Whitus
Narcizus Lispus
Neonus Chaosus
Saldanus Lathumus
Swaggus Swaggus
Tyrus Ithus

Persons selling their services in the Forum

Gallus Clarus, ex-legionnaire
Titus Ludius, ex-legionnaire
Durus Pimpus, dealer in sexual slaves
Animus Sentus, person rumored to be affiliated with the Priesthood
Furius Lucius, former warlord of Gaul, enslaved and now freed
Lexus Postus, owner of many horses
Blakus Fortunatus, owner of many horses

and of course,
Swaggus Swaggus
Ardentus Enthusiastus

Primer

On Day I there is no vote. The Consuls have the authority to issue one arrest warrant each. They will do this by pm to me. They do not HAVE to issue an arrest warrant, and there will be no record of these arrest warrants.

Players may bid for the services. This is also done by pm to me, in the form of "I wish to purchase the services offered by xxxxx." If you win this bid, you will have the use of those services on DAY II.

Players may also sue another player. This is done publically in the following format:

SAINTUS CRONINUS SUES CARTUS MANUS

Please use bold and caps for this. Lawsuits will be settled on Day II, and from here out will be settled the day after they are announced.

Roles are now being rolled, and will be sent out via pm shortly.

got some kind of PM. Checking in

I believe all roles are sent. If you did not get a pm, please send me one.

well...i'm nice and ordinary

Wolfus Maximus checking in

I'm the 2nd best lawyer? Please. Who can argue like I can? Note, I didn't say effectively. :)

Garden variety senator here, looking to safeguard Rome in the coming days. I am not one blessed with a particularly famous family and I have not yet crafted a reputation for better or worse. But I am loyal to the idea that is Rome and hope that we can continue to build a better government in the coming days.

Hey all!

First Consol checking in?

I am a person of boringatudeness. Hi.

I bleed for Rome. But my blood is a rather ordinary, dull red, I am afraid.

Question:

Can Consuls be re-elected to their posts, do are they disallowed becoming Consols again?

They can be re-elected, but not to consecutive terms.

dola, one other clarification: If you secure the services of somebody, those services are yours to use as you please, INCLUDING donating them to somebody else.

st. cronin, can you edit your money post to include everyone so I don;t have to keep clickign back to the sing up thread to see who is in the game?

Are there more rules that I'm missing? This isn't making much sense to me, like what is our ultimate goal? Do we know that there are people who are in fact, treasonous? Are there different political factions? When does the game end?

I have received my PM

dola,

and for spreadsheet purposes, are we voting people off by screename or name given to us?

As this glorious nation embarks on its bold new experiment without a dictator I welcome the new found role of the Senate in advising the people of Rome in the proper way of things.

Ordinary Senator here, loyal to the Republic of Rome.

I'm here and ready to serve... except I have family in for the holiday and won't be around much until tomorrow. :)

I own all the yaks in the Republic. Ave Romanus!

I, Autumnus Leavus have been fortunate to have become a man of some wealth in this great republic. The gods and the wise administration of the Senate have made it possible. I hope my humble service can help guide the Republic on its upward path.

Loyal Senator to the Roman Republic checking in.

the idea would be to smoke out the treasonous tarquinians and toss them from the rock (which incidentally isn't ALL that impressive...i suppose a fall would still kill you, but it's nothing awe inspiring).

A simple true Roman, of modest beginnings, reporting. Might we all remember that we serve not ourselves, but the people. Let us make sure that Rome never falls under any oppressor again.

Regnat Populus

Well I'm checking in. I guess I need some help from others on a few points here...

First of all, I have my other two daughters this weekend (until Wednesday morning), so get the juggle 3 daughters, hospital stuff and work stuff for a few days so bear with me.

Second, I'm interested in suggestions on who might be treasonous among us. As with normal day one votes, I have very little clue on people's allegiances so am interested in knowing what others feel about those we interact with. I won't commit myself to choosing to arrest someone based on what people say , but any input would be helpful for me.

Third, There is much talk about money so far, people who are wealthy, purchasing services from others etc.. I don't have any information about money at all in my PM though. All I am told is that I am loyal to the republic. So am I to assume that all we know about our own wealth is whats listed in the groupings above?

If so then I guess I'm not going to have much remarkable to give for the republic here beyond my first two days. I'll try to do my best to further our cause before I leave my post, but with the complete lack of information to start with I am afraid of pointing a finger at an innocent man. I'm heading to the hospital now for a while, but will check back at some point later tonight.

Also I am curious to what reasons many of us would have to sue another for. I don't have any information that would indicate personal conflicts with others on an individual level. As far as I am aware, its the senate looking to keep ourselves free from our former opressors. If we end up finding someone not loyal to the republic's cause we simply would throw them off the rock, not bring up an individual lawsuit.

So does anyone have any thoughts on what reasons or goals would be behind personal lawsuits?

Alan, money is another thing that needs explanation. What good are the services that the various vendors provide? I guess st. cronin will explain that in time. Apparently lawsuits are just to make yourself richer, but again, with no knowledge of what money is good for, it's hard to see why we'd bother. As for Tarquinians as DaddyTorgo mentioned, I have no idea who they are or why we want to kill them.

Ok, I went back and found the info on the lawsuit stuff. Missed this in my hasty reading..

So with what it says here, there being a small chance of some information on treason coming out, is there any good group reason to not have as many lawsuits as possible? Sure, you risk an individual risk of some negative consequence to your person, but its for the betterment of the republic in the long haul I would think...

Any thoughts on us all working to try to put forth as many personal lawsuits as we can in hopes we might have indications of treason pop from some (or any) of them?

The Tarquinians are our former opressors who we have chased out to form our new Republic. Evidentally there is some talk that members of our senate might be sympathetic to the Tarquinian cause and wish to bring them back in once more to crush our republic. I believe that is the goal of our actions here in the long run.. to identify who those traitors to the republic are and throw them off of the rock.



As for what the various people above can do for us, I bet we could try to make educated guesses... ex-legionnaires might be some form of personal bodyguard that we can buy for the night. What might some of the other roles do for us?

Priests
Sex slaves
Formerly enslaved but freed warlord
Horse owners?

Ok, I need to run. I'll check back tonight. One last question I guess for cronin here...

If you purchase the service of one of those roles, does it affect your overall wealth? Ie: you now are that much less wealthy due to spending some of your wealth for that service? Or for game purposes does your place in wealth status only get effected through lawsuits?

Antus Meisterus is checking in.

Well since there are only two lawyers, we can only have two lawsuits a day, yes? With so many people it will take a while, but we could just keep suing everyone until treason is revealed. We know the lawyers are safe, since they're not Senators, right? They can't be traitors?

Looks like any of the public roles (includes lawyers) could be working for the Tarquinists.

Damn...so the tribune, consuls, lawyers can also be Tarquinists. This is definitely going to be a pain to weed through.

I asked about the lawsuit prior to the start of the game. What I got out of the answer was that it was a mechanism to improve your value while diminishing someone else in the process. So a way to move up the economic food chain, for better or for worse.

I know this is convenient for me to suggest as someone who is not born into great wealth, but the people who can buy services in theory have the most to give the people and conversely present a larger risk if they are Tarquinists. So I believe optimal play is to begin with lawsuits against those near the top in an effort to find a traitor. Even if the suit is unsuccessful it gives a small positive check mark if it does not turn up treasonous behavior.

That is about as far as I've gotten on strategy at this point in the game.

It seems to me that the easiest way for an assured win is to simply check everyone with lawsuits repeatedly until the traitors are revealed. Assuming they cannot spread their wicked beliefs to others, and if the consuls do not hang anyone, we can be assured to find all the guilty parties with no unnecessary loss of life.

With no night action, I seriously wonder how the Tarquinists are gonna trim the herd. Unless we just randomly die during the course of the day.

I don't think we have that kind of time. As I just posted, I think somehow, we're gonna get offed by bad guys throughout this. There's too many players to just axe one person a day.

You all are missing the point on the lawsuits. They have nothing to do with the lawyers that can be hired.

To do a lawsuit on someone you simply put in Bold in the thread PlayerA Sues PlayerB.


I don't see anything in the rules that indicated that there can't be 14 lawsuits a day. I also don't see anything that indicates one player can't sue multiple people. The only thing I see is that it indicates there might be some penalty for losing a lawsuit (my guess is losing some wealth perhaps?).

This goes back to my original point that I haven't seen many comment on other than Hoopsguy alluding to my idea.. Whats do we lose from having as many lawsuits brought forth as possible? I think some of you are assuming the lawsuits will definitly show some tendancy for treason if its there, but the rules state there is a chance of that happening. My thoughts on that wording means it might or might not show some signs of treason if its there (perhaps decided by random.org) So it could take people being sued a few times to work out the odds.

I'll go a step further and state, I have no objection if people want to sue me in an attempt to try to find some treasonous tendancies from me. (As well as try to get some of my little wealth that I may have). Just keep in mind if you choose to do so, you have no right to complain if others do it to you.

I'm thinking for day 1, I'll be looking at whom I want to place in arrest (so far no one has given me any thoughts on people to suggest to look at), as well as I'll be considering one or possibly even multiple people I wish to sue as well.

checking in on the Holiday.

alan...i like your thinking on the lawsuits.

I am also not possessed of great wealth, nor any special standing within the community at this point.

Lawsuits give us a small positive checkmark, yes? Nothing definitive, but how about if we set a deadline day (3 or something) where we say that no one should be voted for consul (or put forth as a candidate) until they have undergone an arbitrary # of lawsuits? does that make sense? And then just everyone blast each other with lawsuits...or people can state their consular ambitions several days ahead of time and put themselves up to be blasted by multiple lawsuits in advance?

Also, an attorney can be hired for a defense. If we are serious about trying to obtain information about treason (and concede that this is far from a lock) and there are only two attorneys, then I would submit it is in the best interest of the people that the attorney are used to press lawsuits and not defend.

If either of the attorneys have additional insight into the process, or can correct a misconception, please feel free to do so as needed.

if that's true, I agree with you as well hoops.

I would think that people should either sue someone on their own level or one up? What do people think about that?

All this will become clear in time.


Will do.


You do not need a lawyer to press a suit.

If we're going to try to all file a lawsuit each day, we can simply organize them so that we suffer the least loss from losing a lawsuit. I don't know how many days it will take to expose all the traitors through lawsuits, but with 14 or 15 a day it can't take too long.

Was the question about your money going down just from hiring services fielded?

Financial status will not change from hiring services (or not hiring services).

One more game note: I will try to keep my inbox open, but with so many players possibly sending pms, it may fill up. In the case that happens, you should send me an email at my gmail address. The address is my user name here, @gmail.com. Try to put "werewolf" in the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpeian_Rock

Why?

One other question I don't think I answered: There is no limits on the number of lawsuits an individual can pursue, but there are practical limits on how many lawsuits the courts can handle. Lawsuits beyond this limit will be held off to the next day, unless withdrawn (a player can withdraw a suit any time before it goes to the courts).

Where does the loss come in? I'm assuming one person's loss is another person's gain. And unless you know something that I do not, we don't know in which direction that helps or hurts us in each individual case.

The only thing I think would be preferred is for us to try to involve as many different people in the lawsuits as I am guessing it has a higher chance of telling us something, than just ganging up on the wealthiest or certain people.

By the way, this is far and away the most complicated game I've tried to run, so do bear with me. Ambiguities and mistakes are inevitable, but I will do my best.

The lawsuit idea makes sense to me. My only addition is to say that my interpretation is that each of us can only press one lawsuit per day, so we would need everyone to take part.

Since we're not quite sure yet what bonus money might bring (other than better access to services) and don't want to be putting money in the hands of possible traitors, perhaps we can match up the lawsuits, so that A sues B and B sues A. If the suits are successful, perhaps the change in wealth will balance out. I'm not sure yet how suits are decided though...

oops, St. Cronin answered that while I was answering - ignore the 1 suit per day item.

I know what it is cronin. Been there, seen that.

this makes a lot of sense. As long as it's not a cover for wolves to only fake-sue each other. I think we'd need...multiple people to agree to it all. Which could make it complicated...

I'm a vanilla. Hurray vanilla!

I don't need people to agree with my idea to do it at all. I plan on suing people, the only question right now is who and how many. The only down side is the possible negative consequences? Well guess my role is the perfect one for that, I have little money no special role other than my public position which will be gone after day 2 anyways. So really I'm in a position of little risk, big reward here and plan on using that.

oh I know you don't need people to agree. but it'd make it more effective.

I am very vanilla. This game looks confusing. I hope Alant and Anxiety stop asking questions that just confuse me more ;)

That's a good point. That would be a danger in tit-for-tat suing, so it's probably best to make the matchups random.

Perhaps in our new Republic we should consider making the financial situations of our senators equal. Those who gain the most money would have the exclusive opportunity to protect themselves, prosecute others and ... race horses? This might be dangerous if those who do not wish the best for the Republic amassed the most wealth. If we used lawsuits to redistribute the wealth evenly, all citizens of our great Republic might be safest.

Autumn, how would you propose that we equal out the financial situations?

I see no reason to believe we should act against the Gods. The Gods have favored some of us and may in the future favor others. However, this idea that we should all be equal goes against their plan.

I don't know if it would work, but we could attempt to have lower income people sue higher income until everybody ended up listed in the same category. Presumably at that point the result of any bid for services would be rather random.

I guess I don't know how feasible it is for us to have everyone on a level playing field financially. There is definitely an advantage to having someone in a higher financial stratum if they are actively using their wealth to build Rome and remove our enemies. I'm not sure, even as I sit at the bottom of the food chain economically, that I want to mitigate that advantage. I would just encourage us to more heavily scrutinize these people in the early part of the game to root out a wealthy traitor or work towards clearing a potential benefactor.

Checking in but I haven't read anything yet and probably won't get a chance tonight. But the good news is that I finally have a working computer at home again! Yay!

quiet startup to this game so far. We need to make sure that we get something done tomorrow, whatever it is.

Lately in big complicated games the village seems paralyzed on D1, and that will do us no good. So let's make sure that we have something going on tomorrow, at least in terms of formulating a plan early. I ought to be around for discussion/putting whatever that plan is in motion if it's suing people or whatever.

THIS DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR MY FEEBLE MIND

easy for you to say, your not the one that might loose money you need for cool services

Here is a question on something I am not clear on. Say I decide to file suit against Playerus Zeeus because his favorite color is black. Neither of us obtain a lawyer. Does the suit still go through and what decides who wins the suit since it can conceivably be based on nothing?

Hmmmm that little bit of info is interesting. *writes a note*

The suit will proceed regardless of whether the players have representation.

So you are saying your wealth is worth more than the republic finding a treasonous member?

I don't really have much to add at this point. I just wanted to check back in again after being out all day.

The next couple days will be hit and miss with me, as I will be working both jobs both Monday and Tuesday. So it will be late night posts and maybe early morning posts during that time.

I should be a bit more free after that.

Solid. Hope you like porn. :)

Grammaticus Atticus checking in. Just got back in town, looks like I've got some reading to do.

I believe the best course of action right now is through bringing lawsuits against each other so that we can try to get more information about each other's allegiances.

Ergo:

KAYUS WHITUS SUES ALANUS TEEUS

I bring the suit against Alanus Teeus because he holds power over us and if treasonous would be very dangerous. I suggest someone also sue Westvus Fanus.

I am ok with this, as I have little to hide and you likely won't get any great sum of money from me. In addition to sueing Westvus Fanus, we probably want to look at people who might be future Consul choices. As I my term as Consul is over after tommorrow, we'll want two new people who we feel comfortable with to elect at that point. Considering a possible future backlog in the courts, we might want to prioritize some of those earlier rather than later.

ALANUS TEEUS SUES HOOPUS GUYUS.

He seemed to back my thoughts fairly early which gives me pause for concern. Instead of chasing those fears down rabbit holes for days, it seems to make sense to try to quickly figure out if he is with us or against us as best we can. If he is indeed loyal to the republic, he could be a very influential and vocal Senator pushing the cause for good and not a bad choice for a future Consul. If he has any evidence of traitorous actions, we should throw him off the rock without a second thought.

no, i just dont like frivilous lawsuits that only benifit lawyers and thier greedy ilk

1) Lawyers aren't necessarily a part of the lawsuits

2) I've already shown a way that lawsuits could possibly help us find treasonous individuals in the senate.

Apparently the secret abilities are unknown to the lawyers themselves. All I know is I'm the 2nd best lawyer in town, loyal to the republic, and I must have about 3 wives if I'm not one of the wealthiest people in town.

Do people like the idea of suing others randomly? If so I'm prepared to go to our old friend random.org and roll it up.

Checking in for Marcus Vaughanus. I don't think I'll make many waves, since I'm only filling in for one day, and it's just Day 1.

I would hope that even though its day one and nothing is really overly clear to us, that people could at least formulate some strategy or reasoning for why they chose the person they chose to sue. I would like to think that I tried to do the best I could on a day 1 in my own action, and would prefer things to be less random when possible.

If I'm hired to represent someone, does that keep me from suing someone myself?

No.

I'm fine with the lawsuit - I won't slide any further down the economics scale, so nothing lost on that front. I'm also loyal to Rome and if being sued a few times is the best way to prove this then so be it.

I'll put my lawsuit on a new senator, one who has relatively little reputation amongst our numbers. I was worried earlier that his statements did not demonstrate an understanding of the wealth system in our state - something that might prove true of a Tarq.

HOOPUS GUYUS SUES AUTUMNUS LEAVUS

morning. what's up?

This strategy makes sense to me. However, if not random, I think we need some form of matchmaking in the suits. We don't know yet how the treasonous information may come to light. If the suitor is the only one who will be told this information, then if there are traitors among us they would be sure to sue each other. I'm willing to press a suit on one of the prominent members of our Senate, but it would make best sense to me if we had people other than ourselves choose the suits.