New Orleans Modern Day version of "Sodom and Gomorrah"
 

I don't mean to put out yet another New Orleans related thread, but I came across this on the Daily Foo:

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp...2&nav=1TjDeGmD
A confrontation this morning between an East Texas church and an evacuee from New Orleans. It centers around a sign out front of Woodland Hills Baptist Church on Old Jacksonville Road in Tyler, about a mile inside the loop. Some say the message is offensive.

"I drove by that sign and was just horrified when I saw that," says Kelly Jackman who now lives in Tyler but used to live in New Orleans.

That sign at Woodland Hills Baptist Church reads ,"The big easy is the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah."

Kelly along with her sister Robin Lafont, an evacuee from New Orleans, showed up this morning at the church to talk to the man who put it up, Pastor Wiley Bennett.

During a heated discussion, Robin asked, "What's the point of the sign out there?" Pastor Bennett replied, "The point of the sign is New Orleans, Las Vegas, San Francisco, and New York City are some of the most wicked cities in America."

Robin, who still has family members unaccounted for in New Orleans, is offended by the sign. "I'm telling you. This hurts. Why would you want to put more hurt, more salt in my wounds and why would you want to do this to me?"

Kelly adds, "And to go by and see this church saying that God did this to destroy these people and basically they're celebrating that by putting that sign up there saying look at what God has done. He has destroyed the city of New Orleans because it is evil."

Pastor Bennett says, "Anybody that's ever visited New Orleans, the very name its self - Big Easy - denotes that it's easy to find sin there."

Pastor Bennett says the sign, is a sign of the times. "The purpose of the sign is to wake American up to the fact that America is going away from God. New York City's 9/11 was a call of judgment and New Orlean's horrible incident was judgment on a wicked city."

Pastor Bennett was quick to point out that the church has helped evacuees by donating clothing, food and lodging, but their good will seems to be overshadowed by the sign.

"I'm not saying that you were evil and didn't have good intentions but it is hurtful. It's extremely hurt full. That's all I'm saying. I'm asking you to take it down," pleaded Robin.

"If I was doing it to hurt people I would take it down, but I'm not doing it to hurt people. I'm doing it to point out the sins of America," said Bennett.

Even after the sisters left the church, the confrontation continued in the parking lot. Kelly said, "That sign also says a lot about your character and your integrity and it's nothing good I assure you."

"They both called me an ungodly person with bad character and all that, and that's their right, but I have people that would say differently," Bennett told us.

Finally, the confrontation came to an end, but with no resolution. Robin tried one last time, "I'm asking you to take it down." Bennett said, "We can not go any further so we may as well go." Robin said, "That's fine. I need to go."

Robin and Kelly say they are going to spread the word of opposition to the sign and encourage people to contact the church. They hope the church will eventually take it down.

Since the sign went up, many KLTV viewers have e-mailed us with their comments. Wednesday night, a viewer named Tammy told us:

"Encouragement is needed, not more salt in the wounds... How could anyone see that sign as appropriate or bearing witness for Christ?"

We were at Woodland Hills as they prepared for Wednesday Night services.

They say earlier in the day, they were deluged with phone calls from people urging them to take the sign down.

But they say after our report, the response has been 100 percent positive. They began their service with a prayer for the people of New Orleans and Mississippi, and we spoke with many members including these who say they support the message on the sign.

Betty George has been a member for 23 years.

"Our pastor has a strong stand on the Bible and he preaches God's word, and he has compassion for America and the souls of America."

Randy Hays joined Woodland Hills in 1999.

"All our pastor was trying to say is that America is pulling away from God, and He wants America to realize that."

Pastor Bennett told us once again he has no plans to take down the sign right now, despite outcry from the community.

...On a side note, I didn't pay much attention during my private school days about Sodom and Gomorrah, so I'm a little in the gray area regarding specifics. Anyone care to enlighten me?

While I can't agree with the sign, I support the Church's right to put it up if they are willing to deal with the backlash.

I just hope some government agency does not step in and try to force them to take it down, which I feel would be a violation of the freedom of speech.

In short, they were wicked cities that the Lord smote because they were so wicked. The story is most well known because the Lord was saving Lot and his family by telling them to get the heck out of Dodge before the bullets started flying. Lot's wife Rebecca, in direct violation of a clear order, looked back at the cities being smote and, naturally, was turned into a pillar of salt.

isn't there a greek/roman myth about the same thing - a girl looking back after being told not to and then getting punished? i think it was "persephone", if i'm not mistaken.

Ironic that the same people who make such a big deal about individual choices having extra-terrestrial repercussions are so willing to condemn an entire city of individuals over a nickname.

Personally, I blame the media.

Aliens? Sodom and Gomorrah?

A little anal probing reference eh?

I get the connection, you sick sick man. Very funny though. ;)


And yes I know you don't actually mean aliens. :D

This shit scares me. It's time we evolve and leave antiquated and irrelevant beliefs behind.

/wishfully thinking and waiting at the bell curve

It must have sucked to get hit with hurricances in ancient times. It's like you wake up and and say hmm look, it's raining. Then hmm it's raining kind of hard and it's a little windy and then.....WTF !?!?!!?!!?!??!!?!!?

Pastor Bennett and his ilk are absolute fucktards. Being smug and righteous about the deaths of hundreds of people is fucking pathetic and shameful.

I tend to agree with you. If the congregation has approved the sign, its even worse.

And people wonder why I despise religion. It creates ingrates like this. And frankly, IMO no amount of good is worth even one of these worthless bastards.

I think they are a bunch of idiots, but it is their right to do so. I'm hardly a defender of Christianity, but I think only nutjobs are represented here (dola, isnt that was Capsicum was suggesting? )

Nutjob-wise, there is no difference between this and following organized religion in general, no matter how seriously you take it.

This of course causes a bit more harm to the innocent and I wish pain upon this pastor.

Yeah. Someone posted a thread to some other pastor or reverend or something saying pretty much the exact same thing and Capsicum responded to it. I forget the exact response.

wow... :rolleyes:

No, actually, I posted a story that suggested that Katrina was retribution over our support of the forced evacuation of Gaza. It turned into a four-page flame-fest, similar to what we're seeing here... Seems you can't suggest God has anything to do with, well, anything, without people calling Christians morons and spewing all sorts of hate in their general direction.

Let's all just stop posting in this thread now. It will only go downhill from here.

Yep. Might as well post a serious article about how a giant whale in space farted and caused the hurricane. Just as believable and debateable. It's not limited to Christians if that makes you feel better.

*yawn*

We all knew this was coming as soon as N.O. began flooding.

Actually Franklin, if you... read - you'll notice that I was defending it, and I don't think this is representative. This is a bunch of nutjobs using Christianity as their bully pulpit - much the way you are, for example.

Isaiah chapter 45 verse 7 "King James version."
"I form the light,and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

I am assured enough thru scripture to trust that the Lord will reveal all in his time.

What's sad is... This could be a GREAT intellectual conversation IMO with the people from both viewpoints involved, if it were not for the name-calling/complete dismissal of a whole way of thinking....

It really is unfortunate....

That being said, I agree and will stop posting in this thread.

Since many think God is the anthropomorphication of the human leadership of the church, I can see where the theory that a god causes hurricanes and other disasters would lead them to believe that the good pastor simply wishes that he could send hurricanes after people he doesn't like.

To others who believe in a god, it directly admonishes survivors. Do Jews - at least those who still believe (only a slight majority) - bear responsibility for the Holocaust? For those sisters, the sign basically reads "you're a bad person, and your family and friends are dead because of it."

For those of us who don't believe in a god and have some understanding of natural disasters (every observed hurricane improves the projections), the sign just seems like the nastiest underside of human nature - the sanctimonious wish to eliminate everything that isn't just like you. We all feel that way sometimes, but we know it's wrong and don't talk about it. It seems cowardly to put those beliefs in "God's" mouth.

By the way, my use of the word "extra-terrestrial" had nothing to do with a pun on anal sex. It was a reference to the age old "heaven or hell" judgment - both places not of this earth.

Would now be an inappropriate time to post the lyrics to the the song "New Orleans" from the musical "Streetcar!" starring Marge Simpson and Ned Flanders?

No, that's not what happened with Persephone. Persophone ate something and was punished, but she wasn't a mortal or anything similar to the story of Sodem and Gomorrah.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/p/persephone.html

What does that mean?

Once again, we'll just point out to these folks that the portion of the city the Good Lord felt worth keeping was the French Quarter.

Aren't hurricanes caused and strengthened by Warm waters and mixing of warm iar with cold air? Frankly the pastors statement is naive and hypocritical. I hate it when people take advantage of tragedies to further their petty cause.

When I was a kid, my Grandad told me that thunder was God farting.

I could explain to you what it means to me , but I think you would be more enlightened finding a copy of the KJV and reading it for yourself and deciding what it means to you. I highly recommend it.

My belief is that "God is in control." I do not believe that God takes any pleasure in the death and suffering of anyone. I believe there was a reason that this hurricane hit New Orleans, and I do believe we will see much good come of it. Our church has already sent a team to Baton Rouge to help, and established a fund for hurricane relief. I do not think it's fair to say that most Christian pastors would "send" a hurricane to New Orleans, just because they disapprove of the behavior that the region is notorious for.


God's children have always had to suffer. This is illustrated all over the Bible. The point is not to say that "Jews were bad - they got what they deserved..." but to realize "that's what we ALL deserve..." Instead of focusing on the negative impact of the holocaust, it might be more productive to look at the positive - would Israel exist today if not for WWII?


I feel pretty sorry for you if you can't see the hand of God in all of creation. I used to question His existence several years ago, but I could only spend so long practicing new-age and eastern meditation before I HAD to observe the role of the Almighty in my life and in all the universe.

Now, I don't know if that sign is the best way to bring people to the acceptance of Jesus Christ, but I can certainly sympathize with the frustration of a church in the New Orleans area, and their natural acceptance of one of the good things to come out of this crisis - that this year, there probably won't be a Mardi Gras, or any other celebration of sinful excess in the streets of their city. Perhaps this disaster will shift people's attention from carnal lusts and towards the things that are a little more important in life.

It's a shame you'll stop posting here, though I don't blame you. I'm just honestly curious on how exactly this could be a GREAT intellectual conversation?

Agreed almost 100 percent. I also agree with wade moore. It's too bad when threads that could be nice discussions get blown away with people castigating entire belief systems.

Now, for the part I would disagree with CS on:



If (and I realize this is a big 'if') this is indeed what this man thinks, I don't think this is a petty cause. I have respect for his religious beliefs.

The method by which he illustrates his cause is pretty disgusting, though, in my opinion.

He's wearing a black uniform.

Kind of punches a hole into their little theory, doesn't ir? :D

he's going to leave the sign up because he knows what his intensions are. funny!

Likewise, but vice versa.



You say that as if evangelical Christianity or "new-age & eastern meditation" are the only two paths to spiritual fulfillment. That's a barren world you live in, if true.


Why don't you worry about your own life and let other people live theirs?

Like football!

Thanks, I have read it countless times. I understand it. That's why I was just curious why you posted in this thread.

You're thinking of Orpheus & Eurydice.

TWEET!

We have inappropriate use of facts and irony in a discussion largely void of both. You've been warned.

Actually, there are several decent English translations in use. Has anybody picked up Alter's "The Five Books of Moses" yet? I've heard that it is an excellent recent translation that addresses many of the inaccurate translations of the original Hebrew that the King James is notorious for.

teehee

I've had Christians tell me it scares them that I(and others) live my life not afraid of anything, since I can do anything and everything without fear of the consequences. I find it scary these Christians need a fear of hell or isolation from god to keep them in check.

It's kind of cool having a mind of your own. Drawing your own set of morals. Not being fear mongered into a certain way of thinking.

It scares me that you are such a bigot.

No, actually Jesus Christ is the only way to true spiritual fulfillment. I just muddled around with some other humanistic approaches before I got there.


Sure... why don't we just worry about our own lives and leave this pastor in New Orleans alone?

Actually, Jesus Christ is not the only way to true spiritual fulfillment. Sorry to burst your bubble there.



You first.

I've done a pretty exhaustive study on the various English translations of the Bible, and I've come to the conclusion that the King James is indeed the most accurate. I'm not sure how you've come to the determination that it is "notorious" for inaccuracy... it is widely accepted as the "Authorized Version" for very good reasons.

Isolated to organized religion. Yes. We all have our flaws. Some greater than others. I look down on the belief, not the person(for the most part). I had/have friends who are Christians and family members who are Catholic. We know where we stand and get along fine.

It being the edition that's sold a lot of copies being #1, of course.

Ascribing behaviors to an entire group of people is intellectually lazy and dangerous on many levels. It seems like you recognize that, however. At least you are being honest there.

Anyway - there are many, many different sects of Christianity - I think anyone would be wise not put them all under the same tent.

Sure it would be, but it goes with the timbre of the thread, so here they are! :)

. Long before the Superdome,
. Where the Saints of football play,
. There's a city where the damned call home,
. Hear their hellish rondelet:
.
. New Orleans!
. Home of pirates, drunks, and whores...
. New Orleans!
. Tacky, overpriced souvenir stores...
.
. If you want to go to hell, you should take a trip
. To the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Mississip':
.
. New Orleans!
. Stinking, rotten, vomiting, vile...
. New Orleans!
. Putrid, brackish, maggotty, foul...
.
. New Orleans!
. Crummy, lousy, rancid and rank...
. New Orleans!

The commentary on the DVD about this episode is wonderful. Plus, all their talk about the lyrics in their songs... great stuff. The Simpsons DVDs are one of the few that are well worth their money- the commentaries are great or at least seasons 1-4. 5 is a little iffy as the writers turned over and there are some people just doing their first commentaries who aren't as good and I haven't seen 6 yet.

SI

Someone care to point out the part where this pastor is condemming all residents of New Orleans as evil and wicked people who are going to hell?

For those who believe in God, we believe that things happen for a reason. Yes, there are pyhsical conditions in nature that cause a hurricane but religious people believe there is a higher power at work as well. Why did so many hurricanes miss New Orleans in the past? Why did this one hit? For those who don't believe, they'll draw it up 100% to nature and science but for those who do have religious faith - they might take into account a greater power at work and that this one hit New Orleans for a reason.

I'm sure there are many priests and pastors and deacons that are drawing similar parallels in their churches - telling their congregations that this horrific disaster is a sign that you never know when your hour will come and that you should be sorry for the things you have done wrong and committ yourself to doing better from this day on. I see nothing where this pastor is praising God for the city flooding and people dying. I see him making a point that New Orleans is a place where sin is on display and embraced with things like Mardi Gras and to tell his congregation to let what happened be a warning to them to change their lives like the story of Sodom and Gommorah in the Bible.

I agree that its unfortunate that people who hate religion will be quick to jump on it and run with it. Ah yes, all religious people are nutjobs and are celebrating that people died, right? Or are all religious people nutjobs because they can believe in something without having physical proof and/or reason staring them in the face? Having religious faith means you believe in a higher power - you believe in signs from God so some religious people are going to look at this as a sign - as a warning and reminder that God wants them to change their ways before they are faced with tribulations or even death in their own life. I fail to see the part where the religious nutjobs are dancing in the pews because people in New Orleans are dead - if someone would care to point that out I'd be happy to reconsider my thoughts.

Ahhhhhh, I see. The 'pillar of salt' triggered an old school memory from some lecture back in the day. Thanks!

People are stunningly slow-witted, stubborn, or both.

If believers can't understand why this sign is so offensive to unbelievers, then they're stunningly slow-witted and/or stubborn.

If unbelievers can't understand why believers would see nothing wrong with this sign, then they're stunningly slow-witted and/or stubborn.

This one should be very easy to see from both sides of the fence. It is a matter of perspective, people.

You are so full of shit. :)

I'm not sure what your point is, but the KJV isn't copyrighted, so it's not like anyone's making a lot of money off those sales.

Psalm 36 1-5 KJV
1The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes.

2For he flattereth himself in his own eyes, until his iniquity be found to be hateful.

3The words of his mouth are iniquity and deceit: he hath left off to be wise, and to do good.

4He deviseth mischief upon his bed; he setteth himself in a way that is not good; he abhorreth not evil.

5Thy mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds.

Well said. In addition, there are many, many different kinds of Christians. I think anyone would be a near idiot to put them under the same tent. But then again, that seems like the easiest way to do things these days. Nice little classifications for everyone means we don't have to think as hard.

Holmgrem 27 2

"Hasselbeck shalt not throw interceptions."

I think it is funny and fitting that all of capsicum's posts are followed by the WTF??!?! smiley :D

So are you looking down on the belief or the nutjobs...er people here?

Maybe you should spend less time on the fence and pick a side already.

Bears 21:4

"To be called upon by thine officials for false start is a travesty of thine own making. To be called upon thine travesty thrice in succession is to be deserving of spanking by thine quarterback's Most Holy Trout."

Thomas Nelson had revenues of $240 million last year and net profits of $20, so clearly SOMEONE is making a buck.

Actually, I really HAVE spent a lot of time on this particular issue. My Dad is a Baptist minister, and he's positively fanatic about it - he won't even look at anything but a KJV bible at this point - and we've had lengthy discussions on the matter. I have read several books on the topic and done a great deal of research on my own on the nature of many of the popular English translations and the original Greek and Hebrew texts they are based on. I've come to the conclusion that the KJV is based upon the most accurate original texts, and the translation is the most accurate English version of those texts.

I'd agree. I'd also say that this pastor is one of the exceptions. And I'd say that it's bizarre to blame the entire region for the behavior of a few. What happened to tolerance and reserving judgment?



I guarantee you the Jews would be happier without the need for Israel. Most care little for artifacts of millennia past. The rich culture built in the neighborhoods of Warsaw, Berlin and countless other European cities can never be replaced.

None of us deserve mass extermination. What a horrible thought.



Oh, don't worry about me. I never saw the hidden pictures in those zany drawings you used to find at mall kiosks, either, and I turned out okay.


Bad news. Mardi Gras is apparently still on.

I do think it's sad that people would view this as a sign. Did you think it was a similar sign when someone gunned down Ben's friends at Tucker last year? How 'bout when my son was born not breathing, and needed a few days in the neo-natal ICU?

It's possible the parallel between Sodom and Gomorroh and New Orleans also has to do with the fact that New Orleans was full of blacks and S/G was a city mostly full of Africans (black people). However, maybe too much can be read into the similarity.

Why?

that was my first thought as well

They had a net profit of twenty bucks on revenues of $240 million? Somebody's gonna get fired. :D

Nelson makes money on Bibles packed with commentary and bound in fancy leather covers. But if you just want to read the KJV, I can mail you one for free, or you can buy a copy at the local dollar store.

I'm not on the fence. I do, however, stay near the door.

Oh crap. ScriptureBot 2000 is on the fritz again.

Why is that sad Jim? What would be sad is if people are happy that people died or had their lives destroyed because of Katrina - why is it sad if a person thinks "Wow, what a horrible disaster. My heart goes out to the victims, the survivors and all their family and friends. Its really amazing how at any point at any time disaster can strike - maybe I better get my life in order before its too late"

Is that sad that someone can view a tragedy as a wake up call to themselves? I still fail to see where people are rejoicing at the death and disaster? If they are, that is VERY wrong and very sad indeed but to look at a horrible tragedy as a wake up call for your own life...how can that be sad?

I do not think that means what you think it means.

I guarantee the Germans would be happier without what the war did to their nation. Same with the British, Polish, Austrians, French, etc. The point is, the war happened. It caused a lot of death and suffering, but a great deal of good DID come as a result of it. To ignore that is pretty depressing - why don't we just say all those people died in vain?

The point is that we're all going to die, sooner or later, one way or another. Maybe when it all happens to a bunch of people at once, we should think a little more about it.

Nothing good came of either of those events? We all have personal tragedy to fight through, Jim. I choose to seek the blessing in it, and not spend all day dwelling on the pain.

heh, my initial thought

That response (which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this being "a sign") doesn't sound irrational to me. I doubt anyone would have a real problem with it, unless you elaborate on what exactly you mean by "get my life in order."

If this is just a veiled way of saying "God hates all the butt sex" then I think you're going to lose some passengers on your peace train. Sometimes it's the sizzle, sometimes the steak.

Wonderfully well said. Thank You

Hey the board almost shut down just now - maybe that's a sign, too.

You are on a roll.

Gary, if you view it that way, that is very understandable.

However, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. By referencing punishment through the parable of Sodom and Gomorrah, there is an implied judgment (human) that all residents of coastal Mississippi and southeast Louisiana were punished for wicked behavior.

There's an implied human judgment that your god punishes behavior you don't approve of (the Bible does not mention New Orleans or Mississippi, by name).

You erased most of the paragraph I wrote when quoting it. How do you feel about the rest of it?

I think I just found the clubhouse leader for capsicum's new sig line!

Ok, I had to make a new sig.

AMEN
Even better. Wish I explained myself nearly as well.
I usually do better when im not holding one of our babies , but you are making my day.

I was hoping you would understand that to be a joke. I said I know you didn't mean it that way.
:(

Pastor Bennett says, "Anybody that's ever visited New Orleans, the very name its self - Big Easy - denotes that it's easy to find sin there."

Pastor Bennett says the sign, is a sign of the times. "The purpose of the sign is to wake American up to the fact that America is going away from God. New York City's 9/11 was a call of judgment and New Orlean's horrible incident was judgment on a wicked city."

----

He's not saying that "all residents of New Orleans as evil and wicked people who are going to hell", but he is saying that this was an act of God punishing the city of New Orleans for being wicked, being sinners. I assume he believes all sinners are going to hell, but I don't know, never been a Baptist, not sure where they come out on that.

I think his statements are pretty clear and quite shameful and, to me, it seems like he and his "ilk" are being very righteous and smug about this whole thing.


I have tried to explain this before and I will try again. I don't think all religious people are nutjobs. I certainly don't think all religious people are celebrating that people died. I was pretty careful to cast my displeasure towards this paster and his "ilk" (meaning those people who share his particular view of the tragic events).

I am an athiest, but my entire family (and my wife's family) are all Christians. My family is, in fact, entirely Catholic. I love them all. I certainly don't consider them to be "nutjobs" and I know for certain they weren't celebrating that people died. I would imagine that 95% of my friends would consider themselves Christians/believers.

I am not a God-believer, but I wouldn't ever flame folks or ridicule or look down upon or cast any sort of dispersions any person for simply believing. Never have, never would. I will gladly (and gleefully), however, flame folks who claim some horrendous act (see above) is God's work/punishment or some hatefilled/intolerant view is God's will. Just remember, however, any such "flame" would have nothing to do with God or religion, but the act or belief itself. For example, if Pastor Bennett claimed that the hurricane was a act of the Great Powerful Alien Supreme Commander, the All-Knowning Lord Kimboat, sent to punish non-believers for their sacriligeous use of plastic beads and for the eating/killing too much shrimp (Lord Kimboat's most favored species) I would still mock the statement.

It aint got nothing to do with God or religion, just evil, stupidity, ignorance, or whatever is going on. Sometimes, however, the source of these beliefs will take some flak/collateral damage in the process, simply because for some people it's all wrapped up together.

I believe that the KJV translation is sourced from various Latin and Greek versions. Some of those Greek/Latin sources are copies of earlier works, and a bit of error (some translation, some transcription) crept in at that stage.

For those books that were originally in Hebrew, like the books that comprise the Torah, there are excellent translations now that source directly from the Hebrew. I would assume that a direct sourcing would be more accurate than sourcing from a Greek or Latin translation of the Hebrew.

I know. Quiksand aka Sassy McSasserson.

Actually, the KJV is taken directly from the Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Ja...on#Translation

$20 million, of course.

The notion that even your "free" copies don't eventually net someone somewhere a healthy chunk of dough is amusing, but naive. Even promotional copies are funded from the donations of others, given to spur conversion, which will be followed by requests for more donation, to fund the publishing of new copies of the free bibles to give away...well, a portion of those funds will go to the publishing program...the rest will go to upkeep of the ministry, new buildings (to be constructed by firms with ties to the congregation), new outreach programs (which aim to get new members to join and donate to the church), etc.

None of which is here or there, or presented with any rancor. Christian publishing, in ALL its forms, is business.

The fact that something is out of copyright doesn't mean that nobody makes a buck off of it - it means that the publishers don't have to pay the author a buck for it, so they can keep two.

I didn't mention Zondervan, but it's worth noting that they're owned by HarperCollins, which is a Rupert Murdoch company. So when Fox News tells you about the faith and Christian values of the Republican party, are they really just cross-merchandising?

Gotta go - I need to sell some KJV bibles. ;)

That's odd. I had a bunch of friends in grad school who wrote/spoke ancient Greek, and my father-in-law writes & speaks Hebrew and they're all of the opinion that it's not the world's best translation.

It is because you'd have to have a pretty big bias to say it was. Scholars would scoff at the very idea (both conservative and liberal).

Well I think it does deal with the discussion at hand - if you believe that this is a sign from God then yes, all residents of coastal Mississippi and SE LA were punished for wicked behavior - not necessarily their own wicked behavior though.

There's no implied judgment - I do believe that God punishes behavior He does not approve of. That punishment could be small, it could be big, it could be in this life or perhaps after death.

As for the rest of your earlier statement I didn't say anything because of its directly personal nature but I will say this - I believe that everything happens for a reason and that sometimes bad things do happen to good people for a reason that is not apparent to myself. Its terrible about your son but did he come through ok? Did that experience, as tragic as it is, not make you and your wife stronger and relish your son even more and realize in that moment how precious and fragile life can be? I don't know why Ben's friend was murdered or why your son was born not breathing - it doesn't make sense to me but I'm not supposed to know everything. I just accept the fact that there is a higher power than myself and that there is a reason - I know that may seem stupid to someone who is not religious but for those of us who are having that faith sometimes is the only way to get through tragedies like that.

I can't help but feel what you're saying here is: "The Holocaust is over, done. Don't think about it any more. Concentrate on the good things!" I think that's an unrealistic world view.


"Think a little more about it" is one thing. Celebrate it as a cleansing as the pastor in the original post did, is quite another. Can you not understand this subtle difference?


Were you only to see capsicum's bannings the same way.

Well, I'm no scholar (although I've studied more than most, I'd imagine), and I'm certainly not theologically liberal by any way you'd try to spin it. That being said, for whatever it is worth, I'd never, ever hold up the KJV as "the most accurate English version..."










...unless, of course, I were living in 1611. :p

You know, I think we're all responding to this:


Maybe, just maybe, some people take exception to the views of the good Pastor Bennett.

I stand corrected, Franklinnoble. The article does make the point that Hebrew translation in the KJV is not as strong as it could be:


Now that Hebrew scholarship has progressed, and now that we have a better understanding of ancient Hebrew--more precise translations of books originally written in Hebrew are now available...

I'm not suggesting the publishing business isn't making money of Christianity. The "Left Behind" novels were a disappointing illustration of that... they took a story that could have been told in about four books and stretched it out to twelve - and I think they did so largely over the profitability of the series.

I also don't care much for the Zondervan company... they own the NIV copyright, and a few other "modern" translations as well. I don't care for them at all, and I know their motivation is purely profit.

The fact remains that you can get a free KJV Bible from a number of sources, and you really don't have to worry about it "costing" you anything later on.

Fixed it for you. :(