OT - The Canadian politics thread
 

(You damn Americans get all the nasty partisan threads. Time for a Canadian alternative.)

So for those who may not be aware, Canada goes to the polls on Monday. The new prime minister (Paul Martin, who took over the leadership of the perpetually governing Liberals in December) has seen his fortunes plummet over the past few weeks, and it now looks like the Conservatives could win.

However, Canada has three reasonably strong natioanl parties and a powerful regional party in Quebec. With four parties competing for seats in parliament, the odds of a minority government (i.e. the winning party doesn't have a majority of the seats) are looking good. If that happens, two parties would need to form a partnership in order to govern -- difficult, since nobody wants to cozy up to the Quebec party and the other three have some enormous political differences.

The latest twist is that it looks like the Conservatives could win the most seats despite having fewer votes than the Liberals. I'll pause a moment so you can all insert your own Bush/Gore joke here.... OK, moving on.

So... to the Canadians out there, who do you see winning this thing?

To the Americans, do you even care? (Hint: the Conservatives would be a lot more Bush-friendly than the Liberals)

To the Europeans... ah, screw it, you're all busy watching Euro 2004.

I'm thinking that the Liberals are going to pull this out. I feel the Conservatives went too far with the "Paul Martin likes child porn" thing. I just hope the Conservatives don't get in. I'm going to vote for the first time in 8 years because I'm scared that it may be too close

Is there anywhere I could read about the parties up to this point? I'm confused as to who offers what... Winnipeg just had their mayor election yesterday.. the owner of our baseball team won, and is who I voted for... :)

I am rooting for who ever likes the USA more. :D

I think you have to be Canadian to win.

Dola,

I personally would love if the Conservative party won. Canada has been going the way of Europe for too long now.;)

If you would have asked me a month ago who would have won,i would have said the Conservatives in a landslide with the Liberals only having barely enough seats to keep party status.......But the Liberals have made a huge comback,and not because of anything they have done,this comeback has been because of the Conservatives taking steps back wards.

Amazing how the Conservatives seem to be able to lose these elections from the front.....A week ago they were ahead in the polls by ALOT,Now they seem to be ahead by very little.

As to who i think should be in?....no one has proved to me that they are a better option than anyone else.So why not stay the course with the Liberals?

I'm hoping the Liberals will pull it out.

I fear what a minority government will bring. :/

From what I have gathered... and keep in mind I'm still a bit confused... I don't trust the Liberals, I don't like the Conservatives.... that leaves the NDP.. I agree with something a local NDP representative said that the Liberals and Conservatives disagree with, so this is swaying my vote towards the NDP.

Jack Layton seems so much like a used car salesman to me that it makes it difficult for me to believe him,That together with the fact that i lived (barely)through a NDP Provincial government makes voting NDP tough for me.

I was like 10...but i remember the ndp running Ontario.....I'll probably vote Liberal cuz that PC release saying Martin supports child porn is just too low......They fight dirty.....

Here's hoping the Bloc Quebecois isn't Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition!

I haven't followed this campaign very closely, but the Liberals have been in power a long time and Paul Martin seems to be the Liberal version of Kim Campbell, aka caretaker PM. Chretien was viewed as a joke down here in Vermont.

Since the Liberals won in Quebec, both of our Governors, Howard Dean, and James Douglas have paid visits to Quebec City to spur trade.

It was real scary during the last Soverignty vote, the thought of a independent Quebec scared the crap out of a lot of people hee who deal with the extensive monies that come from Quebec tourists.

Whoever can make Canada a stronger union should win.

*apologies to frogman if he's a PQ supporter.

I always hated the idea of a regional party on the federal scene, but with my first real voting opportunity coming up, I'm feeling more and more angry at the Bloc Québécois, and for the most part, at the people voting for them. I'm finding it really difficult to understand the relevance of a partie with a separatst agenda supposedly representing a province whose population voted twice against independance.

I can't see how the BQ is the best way to provide québécois a way to protect their interests while being condemned to a secondary role in the opposition. Wouldn't the 50 deputies that will probably be elected monday from the BQ be more able to protect our interests if they were in the group in power or in the opposition ? And I hate the common tought over here that being represented by part of the liberal party or part of the NPD (which is what would probably be the case if it weren't for the BQ, given the leftist tendancies of Quebec) would be like not being represented at all : if you don't think that you're deputy can do a good enough job to preotcet your interests, why would you vote for him ?

It sucks that my first election are already making me sick of anything political. I just can't deal with all my friends being separatists and half of them not being able to explain why. I can't deal with half the fucking separatists (and I'm being reasonnable here) wanting out of Canada because of what the "tabarnak d'anglais" did 200 years ago. I'm tired of everyone complaining that we are mistreated and alienated while we, as a province, are doing everything in our power to alienate ourselves from the rest of Canada.

To come back to the subject at hand, and not go to far in my thoughts on independance, I find it weird that people here are saying that the BQ is giving us a way to balance the voting for the better party for the province, but that this time, by voting for the BQ instead of the liberal, they are doing the PC a favor. Do they not realize that the PC is the farthest thing from an ideal party, in terms of general issues (especially regarding social issues), in the sense that what the PC want to do, excluding giving more power to the provinces, is at the opposite of what we québécois want to see happen.

I'm totally disgusted, finally (I think), by the idea surfacing that electing Harper and the PC would be so bad for the country that it would give more incentives to québécois for independance.

Anyway, I'm going to vote Liberal, probably, and hope that by a struck of luck, we stick with them (I mean, it's not like we had it bad during the Chretien era,even with the overblown scandals and all), or at least that we get a minority governement, and go back to vote (maybe with another liberal leader ?) in 18 months, with the current conservative drop continuing, and maybe we won't be stuck with permanent increased Greenhouse effect relating effects in four years, when we finally come to our senses ( ? ).

(sorry for the rambling, I don't even remember myself where I am at)

This statement leads me to believe you should be running for office...not voting:D

My 2 cents:

The Liberals are the only party serious about a balanced budget and reducing the national debt.
Despite this the Liberals under Chretien funnelled large amounts of money out of the system to their friends in Quebec.

The Conservatives are only conservative about social issues and seem to be willing to put us back in deficits.

The NDP think the national debt isn't a priority. That shows they just don't understand economics or leadership. Besides, Jack Layton reminds me too much of Brian Mulroney in orange clothing.

I'm probably stuck with voting Liberal although I hate to reward a party that has stolen public funds in the sponsorship scandal. I can only hope that they are truly two parties; Chretien supporters and Martin supporters. If the Chretien flunkies are purged, maybe they will conduct themselves more appropriately.

To our American friends: even if the Liberals stay in power, I think you'll find Martin more amenable than Chretien was. Just remember, you might have gotten more support from us on Iraq if your government hadn't slapped large tariffs on us at the same time we were helping you in Afghanistan.

More like 1 1/2 cents.



And we don't need your stinkin' bacon!

One of the most pressing issues for me in this election is electoral reform. First-past-the-post (similar to the electoral college system used to elect US presidents) makes it impractical to vote for anyone other than a party that has a reasonable chance of winning the riding outright, and this is leading a lot of poeple to hold thier noses and vote Liberal (to beat the Conservatives) when other parties--NDP and even Green--more reflect their values.

There's a very good chance first-past-the-post will allow the Conservatives to win, as Maple Leafs says, with fewer overall votes than the Liberals because of their concentrated regional support (ie. in the west) if the Liberals can't win back big swaths of Ontario by Monday.

Me, I'm voting NDP, with my heart and my head, because from what I read in the papers and see in terms of signage, the NDP seem to have a really good chance of winning in my riding and the conservatives, on the other hand, seem totally outnumbered. In other ridings, I might have to vote Liberal, just to keep Harper out of the drivers' seat.

I'm so torn it's not even funny. During the debate, my thoughts on each leader were "one guy is too far to the right, one is too far to the left, the middle one is a liar, and the other one a f**king seperatist".

I'm just totally frustrated by the whole thing. I don't want to vote Liberal (which I usually do, I liked Chretien) because they have been in power too long and have become corrupt. But the NDP are ridiculous and the Conservatives scare the bejeezus out of me.

One thing that strikes me as being funny is this: Martin says everything I want to hear, but I doubt he'll follow through with most of it. Harper says a whole lot of stuff I DON'T want to hear, and I get the sense he'll follow through with all of it. Odd dicotomy there.

Anyways, I'm still undecided, but I'm leaning Liberal because my local candidate was formerly the head of Winnipeg Harvest (a very good charitable organization) and seemed to do a lot of good work for people.

Dola-- on a couple of issues raised...


The thing about the Bloc is that, aside from that little deal about separatism, they're actually very progressive in terms of social policy, and I think that reflects Quebec's "euro-ish" culture. The NDP don't have much political history in Quebec, and I think the Bloc picks up a lot of votes to the left of the Liberals on the spectrum, separatism aside.

I remember watching the gay marriage debate in the house of commons on TV, and there was a young Bloc MP who said basically "yes, I'm for separation, but for now I represent Quebec's values within canada as it stands", and then went on to speak eloquently and passionately in favor of changing the definition of marriage (a whole other debate, I know)... and he and really helped me understand how the Bloc could be more popular than separatism itself.


As Duceppe (leader of the bloc), of all people, said at the debate, it's possible to be friendly and cooperative with the US without bowing on bended knee to them on every issue. Canada needs someone who will protect its individual point of view in the world...surely the US can understand a country wanting to do that...

You don't NEED it....But you do WANT it :D

- the Liberals promised to remove the GST and implement a national child care program in 1993; 11 years and 2.5 terms later - nothing

- the day Chretien got elected in 1993, he cancelled the helicopter contract; 11 years later the Sea Kings are a national disgrace; CFB Calgary was moved to Edmonton in a cost cutting measure yet the land forces base was already operating in Wainwright; could it have anything to do with the fact that Edmonton elected two liberals but Calgary didn't? The Liberals are no friend to the military and in a time of uncertainty and potential terror threats, I feel more confident in the protection of the US than my own government.

- Minister Jane Stewart oversaw the HRDC boondoggle; 30,000 job creation grants in the neighbourhood of $1 billion were improperly accounted for

- the Liberals assured Canadians that the Gun Registry would not exceed $2 million, the initial budget presented to taxpayers; $2 billion dollars later the program is still not supported by Police Chiefs across Canada

- the CSL/sponsorship scandal saw another $161 million handed over to Liberal-friendly advertising firms; Paul Martin was Finance Minister and from Quebec but he was completely unaware of the issue?; last night Mansbridge pressed him and finally he said he knew "1 or 2" of the people involved; Auditor-General Shiela Fraser released the initial report approximately 18 months ago but we're heading to the polls not knowing the full extent of Martin and the Liberal party's involvement

The Liberal Party's legacy is full of lies, broken promises, corruption and mismanagement of taxpayer's dollars in the billions. When are eastern Canadians going to say enough is enough?

What I really want sometime is that poutine....

I heart poutine....unfortunatly my heart does'nt heart poutine:D

Ron, I have the same hope as you... No need to apologize, I didn't support the PQ in the last provincial elections, I went ADQ which would have been a damn fine option for us, but no, people chickened out and went with Charest...

I'm not very passionate about politics, be it provincial or federal. I'm of the opinion that the Bloc Québécois has outlived its usefulness. They were supposed to be there for one term, maybe two, they're now coming for their third.

I am presently disgusted with federal politics more than anything else. On one side, the Liberals, with the lies, the scandals, and that crap. On the other side, the Conservatives that are kind of radicals, coming from the merge of two parties... On the last side, there's a party that will never be in charge of the country, the Bloc Québécois...

:sigh:

cuervo, yeah, you really want that poutine :) Stop by, I know some great poutine places :)

FM

ML Started this thread....and failed to give us his thoughts....I know his thoughts are usually on how he can kill Kerry Fraser but.......

The Conservatives would be a lot more America friendly than any Liberal.

As to your question as to who will win this thing - no doubt the Liberals. I don't have faith that Ontario has yet seen the light.

That would be Stephen Harper (Canadian Alliance). He wanted to join the US in the Iraq mess a year or so back, but for some reason he's pretty quiet about that issue now. He actually has a legit chance of winning, but more thanks to incompetence on the Liberal party side than on his own popularity.

The L

The Liberals have consistently lied to get elected.
Why would anyone believe their promises?

My thoughts exactly.

I wouldn't be so sure. Not sure how much press this gets out west, but we elected a Liberal Premier last October based largely on numerous promises not to increase taxes. Since taking office, McGuinty has pushed for exactly that on several fronts and Ontarians, on the whole, are pissed.

As recently as a week or two ago, the word around here was that much (if not most) of the credit for the Conservative push nationally in the polls was due to Liberal dissatisfaction in Ontario. Granted, they seem to have given some of that back lately, but there is very much a "guilt by association" thing going on here.

So has every other party when they tried to get elected...

And if your response is "that was in the past", then remember that there is a new leader of the Liberal party as well. In fact, much of the old guard has now gone away to make way for new faces such as Scott Brison.

What it should come down to is: are you happy with how Canada, as a country, is right now? I'm not talking about scandels or anything like that, just the general day to day life in Canada. If you're not happy with it, you'll probably want to consider another party. If you are, then why would you even think of electing a different party?

First of all, tell your government to take your troops out of Afghanistan. Sending your boys to fight in a foreign land for American Aid is pathetic.

How can you ignore the squandering of billions of dollars? Day-to-day general life is not the criteria by which I judge a government. Their actions have to be evaluated and critiqued. Policies in which you're interested have to be judged against the other platforms. If your happy with the Liberal Party's policies despite the corruption, good for you.

I could probably support this measure.

(ok, maybe just maiming)

Couldn't agree more with this statement. Sure, there are no civil wars in Canada right now, but it's not because the Liberals are in charge in Ottawa right now...

FM

To say that all parties lie is simply Liberal party propaganda. The Liberals want to be able to lie, cheat, steal and squander taxpayers' money and then say it doesn't matter because any party would have done the same thing.
That's like forgiving a thief by saying anyone would have stolen the money.
Why don't we try another party and find out how they would do?
Why are the Liberals running so many negative ads?
What are they afraid of? Perhaps they know if another party gets into power, the country will know how much money the Liberals wasted.

Billions? It was 100 million, I believe. A lot, yes, but a very small portion of the overall budget.



Okay, go look at the history of politics. Now find me a party that did follow through with every promise they made. Yeah, parties lie. I'm sure they want to follow through with everything they say, but they know - realistically - it isn't going to happen.

Hell, look at the Conservative government here in Nova Scotia... they have a minority government right now, but it's been *awful*. I've never seen a worse budget presented than their last one.


We have in the past. The Convervatives have been even worse federally. Need I remind you about the last time they formed a government? The NDP have never been elected federally, but have had major problems when elected on a provincial level.


I've actually seen more negative ads run by the NDP... of course, followed by a positive one for Jack Layton.

Gun Registry
- original budget presented to taxpayers $2 million
- current budget approaching $2 billion

HRDC/Job Grants Scandal: $1 billion

CSL/Sponsorship Scandal: $161 million

The other three quotes were not mine. The lack of an associated username makes it appear that they were my statements.

I would argue that the current Conservative Party is substantially different than the Progressive Conservatives under Brian Mulroney and therefore it is an unfair comparison.

Part of the reason for the formation of the Reform Party and the Bloq Quebecois was the tenuous coaliton formed by the PCs under Mulroney and the dissatisfaction that resulted. The PCs were reduced to 2 seats and would never be reelected in Western Canada and it wasn't until Joe Clark's pride was removed from the equation that the party realized this. Both the Canadian Alliance and Progressive Conservatives agreed to merge into this new party.

I personally do not understand the fear I've been hearing.

Just found out I'm going to be a poll scrutineer... exciting and had to share... :-)

Ahh... okay, at least your not just referring to the most recent one. But even so, scandals are nothing new to politics.

As I said before, the NDP have never run a federal government, but provincially there have been a number (for example, in BC) - such as the provincial gov't wasting $500 million for their high speed catamaran ferries.

Or the last Conservative government? Bre-X? Airbus?

No matter who is elected - there is always going to be some amount of waste and corruption in government.


You are correct. Sorry about that, I forgot to include his username in the first part of it.


Eh... I guess I just hear plenty of promises, without any realistic plan to implement them.

We're going to cut taxes? Great! We're going to fix health care? Great! We're going to invest in the military? Okay, sure. But how the hell are we going to pay for it all when we're just barely running a surplus now?

"We'll reduce gov't waste" they say.

But that brings me back to what I said earlier. No matter who is elected - there is always going to be some amount of waste and corruption in government. It's a fact, there will always be someone in power who is irresponsible.

What's funny, to me, is that I am technically a member of the Conservative party. :)

:) I'll be voting Green. The Conservative candidate in my riding is an idiot but he'll win by a landslide. Plus, since the Green Party took the effort to run a candidate in all 308 ridings, I think they should have had a spot in the debates. I think if they get 2% of the vote, their expenses will be covered and maybe with that comes a little more recognition that Canadians are looking for something different.

That narrows the field considerably, considering the village idiot currently living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

See, I'll threadjack this into a US politics thread yet. :P

Vote Conservative, elect a leader that will ALWAYS be willing to bend over for Bush!!!!

Indeed the current Conservative is overrun with people who are anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, pro-whatever Bush tells us to do, pro-war, etc. Those opinions, IMO, are not a true representation of what Canadians think... sad thing is they have the best chance of winning my district, and possibly the election as a whole.

Um...isn't this slightly contradictory? If it weren't a true representation of what Canadians think, then the Conservatives have no shot, right?

(Yeah, yeah, Bush lost the popular vote, but he won by the rules laid out in the Constitution, and I assume the ridings in Canada aren't gerrymandered to hell and gone like the US Congressional districts are, which can lead to somewhat misleading election results....)

Ditto...if they were to win(not a chance EVER) but if they did...they would still spend money like crazy,just like everyone else...but at least they would spend it on the enviroment instead of lining their buddies pockets.

Have you confirmed in person that your candidate is against abortion, is homophobic and will turn look to Capitol Hill for policy advice? If not, name a person in the party you know fit the criteria of an extreme right-wing, homophobe? The party is hardly "overrun" with these types of people. Before the election Martin was anti-gay marriage. Is he an extremist?

Having worked for the party, I can confirm that there are indeed social conservatives in the party. This is not surprising as all parties are formed by various interests but they are a small part of the party. Being a social conservative is not synonymous with being an extremist but people obviously can't make the distinction, instead accepting the spoonfeeding done by the media.

How come the left-wing radicals of the Liberal Party are never questioned by the CBC?

Michael Moore, the American author and filmmaker, made a statement to Canadians about the Canadian election "You've got four days after it (his movie) opens, to get people out to the polls to make sure that Mr. Harper doesn't become your next prime minister,".

Ralph Nader, an American, also stated that Canadians should not vote for Harper.

Why is there no outrage from the Liberal party and the media about this American interference in Canadian politics?

If U.S. President Bush or a member of the Republican party said that Canadians should not vote for the Liberal party we would be hearing for years about American interference in Canadian politics.

Double standard?

Just as long as our supply of Canadian Bacon is not interupted, daddy needs his morning Egg McMuffin.

If Bush said that Canadians should not vote for the Liberal party and should vote Conservative, I really think Paul Martin and the Liberals would actually be VERY happy. :D

You know if Bush can't get the support of strong Canada, he could be in really big trouble coming this Nov. It would be a very big push for Kerry if the Liberal guy wins. Extremely important elections for the Americans.

No, because ALOT of people who are voting for them are either disregarding their archaic social opinions, or are not aware of them. This election is alot more about change then it is about policy issues.

There's a big difference between Nadar, a man who has no chance of becoming President, and Moore, a 'normal' citizen... and the President of a foreign country.

Plus, Canada is alot more Liberal and there's obviously not going to be much attention given to American liberals telling Canadians not to vote for the right...

My canidate stand for the following...
- more military spending, based on Harper's plan
- a HOC vote on the definition of marriage, stating that minoritys have rights but so does the majority :rolleyes:
- and for what he's been saying in local debates he's very much a Harper supporter on all policies... and he's a PC recruit.

Again I state... Canadians are very much a left-wing country, no one cares what left-wing policies are being thought up... people do care what right-wing, anti-progessive policies are being thought up.

Sorry, but Harper held alot of these opinions when he was in the Alliance... maybe I'm being spoonfed by the media, but personally I don't buy the fact that he's suddenly a changes man.

Is unfettered access to abortion, legislation defining marriage as between two people and raising trade barriers and wanting distance from the US not equally extreme? You say no one cares about such policies. I guess it's just another example of a slap in the face to the millions of western Canadians who care and will not vote Liberal come Monday.

Canada is lucky that the country was founded peacefully and that we have a history of democracy and not revolution. Western Alienation and Quebec Seperatism are two thriving forces that would have easily ripped apart another country.

Well, the results are in! The CBC just breathlessly reported the first results... from the first riding.... from the first polling booth.... for a grand total of, um, eleven votes.

The Liberals are winning! It's a landslide!

U folks surprised at the Liberal strength so far?

Not particularly. It's "only" the maritimes....wait for the Ontario/Quebec results to start coming in. That's where they're really going to get hammered, I think.

17 minutes until this actually starts getting interesting. :)

Dola...

Great site for live results: http://www.thestar.com/fedelection/fed_elxn_2004.html

As accurate and up-to-date as the TV, but without the commentary.

So... who did folks end up voting for?

I wavered all campaign, but eventually went Liberal. At the end, my anger at the arrogant, corrupt Liberals couldn't outweigh my fear of the Conservatives.

Does this mean I have to take the lefty side on this board for the next four years?

Interesting, you voted out of 'fear.' I hope I never reach the point that 'fear' determines what I do or don't do, but there is always that possibility I guess.

Oh shit, Bubba's here. Everyone turn off the lights and don't move, maybe he'll stop ringing the doorbell and go away...

I couldn't and wouldn't vote Liberal. I honestly didn't know who I was going to vote for until an hour before I got to the polls tonight. It was a coin flip between conservative and NDP.

I dislike and am frightened by both parties for various reasons, but I couldn't find even a single issue to outweigh another and tip the scales. In the end, I decided that since I couldn't actually vote for either Leyton or Harper directly, I would cast my vote for the candidate in my riding that I actually thought would best represent the interests of my community.

While I am not at all sure that I want to wake up to Stephen Harper as my Prime Minister in the morning, I voted Conservative.

Similar situation here. In my riding, the Liberal candidate is a cabinet minister and long-time local politician. The Tory is a 25-year-old kid who only moved here a few months ago. In the end, that helped sway my choice.

btw....I actually had candidates on the ballot in my riding (Parkdale-High Park) for the Marxist-Leninist Party, and the Marijuana Party. :)

Here we go....

:D

Now the real election results come in.

HA! Sounds like the beginning of the O'Reilly Factor...you know "Lock the Doors, Hide the Kids, the O'Reilly Factor is about to begin!" You do me a great compliment! :D

NoMyths will be along shortly to teach you the handshake, then JoninMiddleGA will stop by to kick you in the nuts a couple of times. :)

I was in a similar situation... I don't trust the Liberals and Conservatives, and I don't know much about NDP. I went with the local representative that had one issue that I agreed with, and voted NDP.

Didn't think Liberals had those ;)

What happened to that far-right party headed by the Pat Buchanan clone that split off from the Conservatives a few years ago? Did they return to the Conservative fold?

Yeah, the Progressive Conservatives, the Canadian Alliance, and a bunch of smaller right-wingish parties all joined together over the winter to form the "new" Conservative Party.

so do the liberals form with the NDP?

Damn.

Do I still get to kick Devil Ray ass in OOTP?

In a second.

There will be the requisit hemming and hawing and posturing, but the Liberals and NDPs would love to jump into bed.

CBC, Global, and CTV say Liberal Minority.

(Yes, I'm a political junkie)

WOOT!!!! Liberal minority, with the NDP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Exactly the outcome I wanted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hippie.

I prefer to call myself an anti-(crazy, religious right, looney) man...

And it looks like the Tory kid is going to win the riding... Wow!

Anyone catch Rick Mercer's "bit" on CBC? Classic, as usual... gives me alot of new stuff to say to the lazy non-voters that we have in this country.

election? what?

moron? yes. :D

Yawn.......what a letdown....

I would have prefered more NDP's (out of the Liberal chunk), and a few Green's... but I'm satisfied because the Republi.... oh, I mean the Conservatives didn't win.

But I'm from SK so it really doesn't matter. ;)

Willy

Was this really ever in doubt? I mean if the candidates are Canadian, how conservative can they really be?

In all the coverage I've seen so far, all the talk has been about how the Liberals did better than expected, and no talk about the level of voting turnout. Given the concern over that before the election, I'm surprised there wasn't at least some level of comment on what the voter turnout level was.


Hey, I live in the same riding as you! I noticed those parties on the ballot as well. :)

Yay! My team won...sorta. Actually I was undecided through out most of the campaign, switching from PC to Liberal and back again. That all changed when a rep of the PC candidate in my riding called me at work around noon to convince me to get out and vote. From that point on I was voting Liberal.

...I live there too... should have had a canadidate for the FOFC party...

I heard somebody say this morning that turnout was 62% nationwide. That doesn't seem too bad to me, but whoever was reporting it certainly made it sound like a disappointment. I have no idea about what context to put that in, though (higher than normal? lower? better/worse than the US?).

I also heard, interestingly, that based on exit polls, something like 45% of voters only made up their mind in the last week ... 25% in the last 24 hours. Talk about the lesser of two (or three) evils.

Cool to see all the west-enders here. We could almost include bbor, but he only works in this riding, so he only counts for half. :)

As to turnout it seems to be in line with the last election at just over 60%.

In my opinion the drop off is due to a combination of factors:

1) Negative advertising. It's too easy to find a reason to vote against someone or stay home because you find all the negativity makes one believe they're all liars with hidden agendas.

2) Excessive media coverage and influence. The leader debates are set up by the media to encourage childish arguing in the hopes of the defining 10 second sound bite a la Mulroney vs Turner. If you watched the leadership debates, you'd have a hard time finding a reason to vote after watching that nonsense. By the time the election day comes, we're all sick of the endless speculation and analysis by the media.

3) Spin doctors. Because the media wants that 10 second sound bite, the participants are so heavily coached that they rarely reveal what they really think about an issue.

4) Ultimately it comes back to the voting public for not taking the time to try and meet the candidates or read their platforms. We tend to rely on the crap from the media and spin doctors, and then wonder why we're disillusioned with the process. We're too involved in our jobs and family, and start to become complacent about our democracy. In the end, it says a lot about our country and standard of living that we can afford to be complacent. For that we must be thankful.

What did everyone think of the coverage last night? Which station did people decide to watch? Did anyone learn anything interesting about the country or their riding that they didn't know before?

I started with CBC, but switched to Global after Peter Mansbridge referred to Toronto as "Central Canada" and repeatedly claimed that it was "almost 9:30 Central Time" when in fact he was speaking about Eastern Time.

When you're from Atlantic Canada, Toronto is Central Canada. It may be Eastern time zone, but there's a lot of miles further east of TO on the TCH.

I watched CBC because I can't stand CTV and I rarely think of Global as a network, if only because there were only two channels during my childhood.

Damn......Lotsa fofc people living in High Park

I am a born and bread Calgarian. I became politically conscious around the second term of the Mulroney Conservatives. I understood and supported the forming of the Reform Party as Western Canadians were fed up with Ottawa dictating to Western Canada. I supported the "unite the right" movement as I felt it was practically necessary to present one electoral voice rather than two.

People outside the region dismiss Western alienation as a myth but it has it's roots to the 1920s. Whether it was the UFA, CCF, Social Credit or the Reform Party, Western Canada was willing to try new ideas and parties to get a voice within Parliament because the existing parties failed to support or captivate the region. I won't detail specific examples that rest in the memories of Western Canadians as books have been written about it but the final straw was the NEP under the Trudeau government.

That was the first instance Western seperatism had legs. Prior to that, it was merely talked about and rejected as Western Canadians are, for the most part, willing to work within the system. However, Trudeau's utter disdain for the region led to the formation of a seperatist party. After every election since, seeing the rejection from the rest of the country, seperatist talk gets new life. I'm hearing it again this morning.

Western Canadians don't understand why we're painted with horns by the rest of Canada and the media. They certainly don't understand why Ontario, and specifically the 40 seats in the GTA have given a new mandate to a government under 36 investigations. They certainly see it as an endorsement to waste billions of taxpayers dollars from Alberta, a net contributor to the federation. I'm a conservative (deliberate small "c" because I'm not in the party) but my views on social policies are so different than Randy White, Stockwell Day, Scott Reid, Rob Anders or Cheryl Gallant. And that is true for the majority of conservatives. The social agenda of these five individuals would not get much play in caucus.

This country is without doubt four solitudes. The Liberal Party likes to think of itself as a national party but electing one or two members from Alberta or Saskatchewan does not make it so. They always have been disrespectful to the region.

I have immense respect for the Bloc Quebecois and sovereigntists. They are standing up for Quebec, rejecting the notion that this country and federation can be inclusive, and fighting for what they believe in. No one criticizes them for collecting their own federal tax and having their own pension plan. Yet, when the same is suggested for Alberta, those evil Western Canadians are at it again. Maybe if walls were set up around Alberta and resource revenue wasn't redistributed, the country would think about the disunity that actually exists. Of course, this won't happen because equalization is entrenched in the constitution and Albertans are notoriously stubborn in their belief in this country no matter how many times they get kicked in the stomach. But if Alberta or Western Canada leaves, that would be a different story.

I've said my piece. I'm now going to console with my right-wing radical friends and discuss how a woman's place is in the kitchen birthing babies, how minorities shouldn't be protected under the Charter as they aren't "true Canadians", and how the Notwithstanding Clause should be invoked to prevent same-sex marriage because "those people" really need to be first cured of their disease.

I hate this attitude. Every province or territory brings something to the table in this country. Why don't we just keep drawing lines around ourselves until every person gets to be their own country? Then I won't have to ever pay taxes to anyone who doesn't have as much wealth or income potential as I do.