Superping-Jesus
 

This is an attemp to get what we had back, which for the most part was Questions that were pretty good and answers. Without too much finger pointing or crude jokes. So arguments against Christianity can be presented and then we do our best to explain them. Please no Crude jokes or anything of the sort.

Give it up.

Don't give it up.

No sir I just read a whole thread on how people wanted it back so, denied.

Do Jewish children killed by Muslim suicide bombers go to Heaven?

Edit: Yes, this is a serious question.

So this barrel of oil walks into a bar and sits next to a beautiful woman. He leans over and whispers in her ear. Suddenly the woman smacks him and the barrel staggers out of the bar. The bartender says, "How come you hit him?" The woman says, "He was crude."

I got nothing.

if you are serious about the Jewish question. They go to heaven if they have faith Jesus died for their sins.

I just found out a couple weeks ago that the Shriners are acually muslim is there roots. and the sword and moon on their caps is from when Muhhamed went and slaughered a whole town of Christians that kicked him out. The moon is from the tribal god that Muhhamed came from. He was the god of the moon and the chosen god of Muhhamed's tribe.

Do dogs go to heaven?

Actually, they would go to Heaven because they are only children. Assuming they didn't understand yet.

All Dogs Go To Heaven

They are Jewish, so they don't believe in Jesus or don't have any real concept of religion. For instance, 7-year-old Elisabeth was just enjoying an ice cream with her mother at an outdoor cafe when a suicide bomber walked up and detonated himself...instantly killing himself, Elisabeth, her mother, and everyone else in a 10-foot radius.

So...no Heaven for seven year-old Elisabeth?

Why does the Christian religion accept the notion of Holy Trinity? It was created by a bunch of Priests during some meeting. It was never in the Bible. They just created it to explain what was in the Bible, a way of interpreting it.

Also if the considered theory of age of understanding is true, which means that before u can make descisions for yourself, at a young age, you go to heaven because you did not know better.

Well, duh, they made TWO movies about it.

considered theory???

To my best understanding. The father is talked about in the NT, The Son is talked about in the NT and the Holy Spirit is talked about. They are are reffered to in ways that make them seem seperate but connected so it is assumed while they are all properties of the same, they are all seperate in what they do.

At what age does the Age of Understanding exception expire?

Well Kinda a theory. Age of accountibility is never mentioned outrightly in the Bible so most Christians believe that there is a certain point where you are not denied into Heaven

It sounds like we're just making stuff up now.

"age of understanding"?

Once the child understands.:rolleyes:

Like a child? Sound familiar?

Yes, but my point is that it was "Holy Trinity" was never in the Bible. Its the same thing with the Predestination idea of Calvinists. Calvin just made it up and over years and years of tradition people just accept it as if it were created by God.

I guess whenever you can make the descision for yourself.

http://www.theonion.com/opinion/

Calvinism is just crazy.

In my heaven, there are rows and rows of books about stuff I like, and 24 hour all you can eat resturants, and lots of video games.

I have a question though. If my wife is still alive, and I am in heaven, can I have sex with someone else, or is it still a sin?

And who makes the final decision on whether or not they understand?

So some 8 year-olds could understand but some 15 year-olds might not?

What about a child with a learning disability...at what point does the exception expire for them? What if they never understand?

Humans cannot understand everything God has made or the rules of Heaven because we dont have the capacity to understand the full outright intellegence of our Creator. So no I dont know if I am right on this point but that is my best understanding.

What about an adult who lives in a remote area of the planet and who has never been introduced to Christianity? He dies after living a life that consisted of love, charity, and singular devotion to his lifelong mate.

No Heaven for him?

Well I guess Catholics are too since the Pope and Priests like to make up things too. For example, Purgatory. Its not in the Bible, Priests just made it up so that more people would convert.

God makes the descicion. he know all hearts and he can discern better than anyone.

I admit I'm not the most knowledgable person when it comes to religion, but I've never heard of this "age of understanding" stuff. My impression has always been that original sin means even an infant doesn't go to heaven. And a Jewish girl of any age would never get in. Of course, most of my early education was from Catholics, but I would be curious where "age of understanding" comes from (in the Bible).

So far you are both doing a horrible job of explaining your interpretation of Christianity to me.

EDIT: Or answering my questions, anyway...

To me it sounds like someone came up with the same question Subby did, and couldn't find an answer.

So they made up the idea of "age of understanding" to feel better.

I dont know. I have debated this with Christian friends many times. It says in the Bible that all will be Judged according to what they have done. But it also says the people that follow God's moral laws without knowing will be declared rightous.(Sp?)

Why did God allow the Holocaust, the Armenian Genocide and other atrocities to occur?

We all have sins through our fathers but since Jesus the rules changed in that he was our sacrifice, as where before sacrifices had to be made to make up for our sins he already did that so faith in him washes our sins away.

Well it depends what portion your asking to. Why did he allow suffering? The suffering is a consequence of our freedom of choice. People chose to persecute others and that is why it happend. Granted God didnt like it but he allowed it because he gave us freedom of choice.

Age of understanding makes perfect sense. If a child doesn';t understand the concept of death, doesn't understand sin, then he can;t possibly be held accountable for his sin by a just God(christian God). Many times in the Bible it is mentioned that to enter heaven you need to be 'like a child' meaning the innocence or the heart of a child. This at least is my belief and the belief of most protestants. I believe that Catholics think that if a child is not baptized then they cannot go to heaven. However I am not sure about that.

As far as predestination, as far as I know no mainstream Christian group STILL believes in that concept. Calvin was ridiculous. I remember that he said that only those in the elect will go to heaven. No matter how much good or bad you do it doesn;t matter because your soul is predestined. It's a very upsetting concept and left many people feeling like they were worthless. People began committing crimes and not going to church under Calvinism...after all it didn;t matter what they did anyway. Crazy stuff.

I'll ask when I get there.

I must write a paper now will be back later tonight and will answer questions if there arent too many. Ill try to answer as many as I can. Thanks for asking good questions sorry I dont have all the answers.

So there is no chance for a person born in China to get to heaven, unless it somehow finds someone to teach it about Jesus?

I dont know where in the Bible but I think it was Solomon, maybe someone else in the Old Testament had their young child suffer and on the brink of dying. And He mourned while the child was alive and suffering but when the child died he was back to normal and when questioned why he wasnt still sad he said " The child is with the Lord now and is no longer of my worrys" or sumthing like that. Will look it up later. Gotta go.

Actually Predestination is still preached in many Presbyterian Churches. And if its "crazy stuff" The Catholic religion must be at least equally crazy. The idea of Purgatory is not in the Bible...look it up. It was created by Catholic Priests and is now accepted as fact even though every historian knows that it was created to increase the number of converts.

That's basically what I've decided too. :p When I die, if there's a white light, I'll find the big man myself and bring up a few things I'm pisssed about. Of course, I just hope I don't get thrown down the dumper into the fires of hell before I get a chance to voice my complaints about the affairs of Earth.

LOL last post here I gotta go. I just posted earlier that that is debated because all will be Judged and all have sinned but also those that are good and follow Gods law without being told it are declared rightous is the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus isn't the only way to salvation. There are many other religions out there that can help one reach salvation. God takes many forms, Jesus, Ganesh etc...

ok, I was under the impression that you had to believe in Jesus.

Props to nfg22 for taking on all these questions. A noble effort.

As an aside, I'm curious about you skeptics. Do you believe in any form of afterlife?

"No one comes to the father, but by me" Or is that not there?

BTW a good way to show that baptism was not necessary was when Jesus was crucified. One of thieves next to Jesus asked Jesus to remember him saying "Jesus remember me when you come into your Kingdom" (asking for his forgiveness) and for this Jesus said, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise" -Luke 23.42
This man was a thief and was never baptized however Jesus told him that he would be in heaven with him that very day. To me, this proves that baptism is unnecessary for salvation.

They get an exception because god loves pork fried rice. If you look in the bible you'll find the "pork fried rice exception" listed right after the "age of exception" (check the index)

Well I have a few more minutes now because my paper isnt due till tommrow. in my opinion which may not be right but I believe this. If you know about Jesus yet dont believe then you will go to hell. But if you dont know yet live a good life and keep to high morals God will have forgiveness for those sins.

Sure, maybe.

I just have a lot of doubts about all these rules and regulations about how souls are sorted in the afterlife.

Thats one Bible. Speaking to a certain group. There are many interpretations of that quote and many believe different things than it says in the Bible. To think that the only way to heaven is through Jesus is chauvanistic.

That is there and also in early part of romans paul says " Faith in Christ is the one and only requierment for everlasting life" around those words. somthing like that.

Than call me Chavenistic.

All the rules and regulations don't matter in the end. Only faith does.

Is that like Calvinistic, only you're a follower of Chaven?

For Bible fans, what do you think about the New Interpreters Study Bible? I bought it after reading some reviews I liked on Amazon but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. It's like reading the Bible with historical cliff notes on every page. I might be able to actually get past more than one book of the Bible with something like this to keep my interest.

HAvent read it yet, I have the NLT and NIV those are my two favorites. NIV being the more accurate one but the NLT being good for understanding somethings I dont always.

No one follows calvin they just hold the same beliefs as him silly:p.

Yeh I too have a problem with purgatory. It seems like it was just made by Catholics to make it seem like the harshness of adhering to the laws of God aren't so harsh. When in fact God is pretty plain in the Bible. Believe in me and follow my rules or go to hell for eternity. There is no in between. Either you make it or you don't. It's much scarier when you think about it like that.

See thats the problem with Christians. They think too highly of themselves. They only accept one belief. They don't accept any other beliefs. Yet God takes many forms. God doesn't only accept believers in Christ. There are many paths to salvation.

Thank goodness you've got a sense of humor. More of that is needed around these parts sometimes. :)

Not to knock Catholics but there have been many times where they have done things for money. Like the wars when they incinuated that you could by salvation with donations wo the church to fund their wars.

I don't know, it seems to me that we're using the Bible as ultimate authority when it suits our purposes, and making up other rules when it doesn't.

That's my main problem.

These are serious subjects but I can read sarcasm and I am a very sarcastic person. God must have a sense of humor too right?

Yet God is a merciful one, he sent his only son to save ALL people.

It is ultimate authority all the time and when I cant find what im looking for in it I look to what would be the best possible explanation.

Catholics aren't the only ones who have done things for money. Christians as a whole have persecuted many and done horrible things in the name of God.

We must be a higher society, most threads would have broken down before the 5th post of religion.

All people are corrupt.

Why does god care if humans believe in him or not? If I was all-powerful I wouldn't waste time caring if people believed in me or not (especially if they were generally good people otherwise). Does god have self-esteem issues?

It's like all the bad things the Bible says aren't important, but the good things are the word of God.

Especially Karl Rove.

Yes he sent his only son sto save all people...all they must do is Believe in Him.

No God created us to have freedom of choice. We ruined the world He created with sin and He lives in a pain free, joy filled world. He has love and compassion that we may escape our bonds with sin and worship Him so we can be with Him.

We are God's sons and daugthers, why wouldn't you care for your son or daugther?

I believe in and love God.

The best examples of God on this Earth are seen in nature, my wife and my four sons.

God is compassionate and forgiving. He is NOT jealous. Jealousy is a human flaw.

God realized that when he created humans he was creating something that was incapable of perfection and to that end we will all likely join him in the afterlife.

Your mission in this life is a simple one. First, enjoy life. It is a grand gift. If you have children, be a good parent. If you are married, be a good spouse. Love your family unconditionally. Be a good neighbor and volunteer selflessly in your community. Respect and exalt in nature.

Realize your imperfections and take responsibility for your actions. But don't feel the need to take responsibility for everyone else's.

LOVE LIFE.

See you in Heaven. :)

Do you know what bad things? Or are u just saying from what youve heard? I sometimes doubt what the Bible says then I remeber if God is all knowing he would make it so the Bible represented Him rightly.

Yes, but Charlie Sheen and Ernest Borgnine did the voiceovers for ADGTH2. Sounds like a mixed message to me...

I believe the Jealous God is a misconception. He is not the kind of jealous we get He just meant He will not be shared with other material things. Either worship him or dont. you cant have the cake and eat it too.

Rules about selling daughters into slavery, buying slaves, working on the sabbath, eating shellfish, stoning people to death...

Those are the kinds of things I'm asking about. We ignore these parts of the bible, but cling to the other parts.

I'd like to believe in an afterlife, but faced with the alternative most people would as well. It's not a very comforting thought to try and imagine death and what that entails - is it the end of this consciousness? Or is there some way in which the thoughts and essences that comprise this consciousness 'live on' in some form?

The rationalist in me says that ideas like Heaven, an afterlife, reincarnation, etc. are concepts that man has created as a comfort to deal with this most difficult of ponderings.

The dreamer in me hopes that there is some way of living on. Of course, I'm still relatively young and vital - ask me again in 60 years if I've had enough...

If God is supremely perfect, how can he create something with imperfections (humanity)? The very definition of perfection is that everything something does is perfect, it cannot create things that have imperfections.

If the answer is free will (as I have often heard) then how could he create free will, which is inherently imperfect?

And why must God exist? If he's God, couldn't he make himself not exist, or is he not capable of doing so, since existence is part of his essence (or perfection)? If he couldn't then he isn't supremely powerful, correct (again part of his essence)? If he doesn't exist, then is he still God? (sorry for not capitalizing he, I just don't feel like making the necessary changes)

That is a good point. I like to interpret this to mean we need to be less self-invloved and materialistic. Materialism is a huge trap and you don't really realize that you are going down that path until you are already well there.

My rule of thumb is that measured moderation is probably the best course when it comes to most things...

I agree. I'd like to believe there is something beyond this, simply because the alternative is so unimaginable that its scary. However, this isn't enough to make be believe, and it is not the right reason for me to believe. I find too many people believe in God out of fear, and that to me is the wrong reason to believe.

ok last post before class. Good Question wigs. The thing is all those things u listed were in dueteronomy(sp?) That book was written to state the rules of their culture at the time and also to restate the Ten commandments.While we take some to heart we do not take others because they are not of our culture. While this can be veiwed as dodging what we dont like. Which all people do to an extent, like justifying their actions(Everyone even Christians have dont this.) But really God has made it clear to obey moral laws as so not to make a fool of yourself and make your religion and God look stupid if you would like I will write a commentary about every single one of those rules because that has been one of my biggest obsticales.

yessir, I still have trouble in being into too much materialism, as in I want a stereo so ill skip mu tithe for this week. But really that money should not control me, But God should. Christians have problems too folks:(. You heard it here first.:p

So if your son or daughter doesn't share your beliefs you think its acceptable to doom them to a life of eternal suffering?

And how can anyone be content in Heaven, knowing that there are souls that are in unendurable suffering for all eternity?

I guess that's kind of my point. We just change old rules, drop rules we don't like, and make up new ones to fit our culture as we see fit. If the Bible was, at one time, truly the word of God, what we have now isn't anymore.

My whole problem with religion is that it's always scrambling to cover every situation. It is always trying to decide who gets into heaven and who doesn't. If you're always changing the rules, doesn't it make the whole game invalid?

I'm glad you're taking the time to answer my questions. The more I learn about how the rules work, the less I believe that anyone knows how the afterlife actually works.

If I were to nail down my beliefs right now, I would say that every single person gets into "heaven". Even the worst people in society.

There are rich people who are content in knowing that there are poor starving throughout the world, so I would say yes.

What is the difference between Catholics, Roman Catholics, Christians, and Protestants? I always thought the first three were the same thing, and Protestants were the same, except they didn't believe Mary was a virgin. Is any of this right?

But isn't this the same place where the rules against homosexuality are outlined? If you can choose ot ignore things because they don't fit your culture, and since you pretty much decide what you want to fit your culture, can't you pretty much follow what you want?

Catholics=Roman Catholics (There are some Orthodox Catholics who I think go with the old Byzantine rules, but those are mainly on the other side of the world)

Protestants are just about any non-Catholic Christians, and are divided into subsets (baptists, lutherans, presbyterians...).

Christians are all of the above.

Catholics are the ones that believe in the virigin birth and that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life. It is her purity that makes the birth of Jesus even more important. The far-right Christians (Bob Jones and the like) call Catholicism a cult because of this and say that they worship Mary and not God... Catholics praise Mary for what she did for the world, but still praise God (and Jesus/Holy Spirit, I'm pretty sure Catholics are the only ones who see all 3 as the exact same)

I totally agree that people believe in God out of fear, its totally the wrong reason. The message of love has been lost somewhat with people and preachers trying to convert by striking fear into people. I personally don't like churches, their like bad goverments. But God exsists. I know for a fact. I wouldn't have received a heart transplant without God on my side. I think some people need to be close to death to understand and find God.

If you ask for forgiveness then you are forgiven of all sins, including original sin.