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Combat Mission II Interactive Dynasty
I will soon be running an interactive dynasty using the turn-based (hybrid) wargame Combat Mission II. This is a World War II game which simulates tactical battles and operations (linked battles) on a squad and individual vehicle level. The player has even more extensive control over fire & movement than in Steel Panthers (the game used in DataKing’s dynasty).
Turns consist of plotting orders (movement via walk/run/crawl if personnel or fast/hunt/seek hull down if tank, etc.; fire at various targets; fire smoke; hide; etc.) for each unit or vehicle. Cover (slopes, buildings, woods, etc.) plays a large part. Command ranges determine the effect of leaders (platoon/company). Once orders are submitted, the computer plays out the turn (1 minute of battle time) in real time 3D, from any and every angle imaginable. It’s simply an awesome game. The Russian Campaign is the theater of operations. At this point, I am looking for several volunteers to commit to joining the fray. Once I get some commitments, we can finalize some options. These will include: * Which side to play (German or Axis Minor, or Russian) * Attacker or defender, and what type of engagement (meeting engagement, probe, assault on prepared positions) * The make-up of our battle group (armor, infantry, halftracks, AT guns, etc.) * Chain-of-command issues If you have inclinations about any of these, state them in your post. Also, feel free to ask any questions. I intend to proceed with the battle on a steady but not overly quick basis. Emphasis will be on player interaction, flavor, discussions, and command decisions. Lack of input will compromise your unit’s safety, so be ready to contribute. If possible, we can retain a waiting list of interested players to fill in when needed. I am posting a duplicate of this thread in the General Discussion. * * * * * List of Participants (capped): The Afoci Calis SirFozzie pskov MrBug708 sachmo71 samifan24 DeToxRoxDVHStyle Blade Qwikshot RealDeal DataKing Travis kingfc22 blade6119 GoldenEagle Tasan tucker342 Waiting List: None, at present |
Ready to die.
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In.
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I'll sign up here as well as the other thread just in case. :)
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I'm on board
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I'm in on this forum too.
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I forgot to add in my opinions.
My vote would be for being the Germans. Might be more interesting to have us on the attack or do a meeting engagement. I think we should go with a Combined Arms force, little bit 'o everything. What were you planning on going with point-wise? Or were you waiting to see how the turnout was before deciding that? Also, did you have a year in mind? Early or late? This should be fun. |
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Yeah, I wanted to see how many folks signed on before I thought about the points. It'll also depend on the type of engagement we want to do. I'd prefer to lean toward early in the war, or perhaps 1943 at the latest, but I am open to other opinions. |
dola
Here is the website at Battlefront.com if you'd like to check the game out (and there is a demo): Combat Mission II |
sign me up
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Oh heck yeah, I'm all over this. Sign me up, Cougar.
I think we'd be better off taking the role of the Germans. It's easier if we're a comparatively small but highly-efficient unit, rather than trying to control gobs of poorly-equipped cannon fodder. And it's more fun when you're outnumbered, if you ask me :) ). I'd prefer early on in Barbarossa, particularly if this is something that might turn into a long-running campaign. As far as the make-up of the unit, I'd like to see armor and supporting mechanized infantry, a panzer unit. It's more fun to be the 'tip of the spear' then some poor mop-up unit. |
Yeah playing as a Panzer Company (Batallion maybe?) on the advance would be very cool. I would think that 42-43 would provide the best for a one off battle (more balanced) but of course if this turns into a long campagn then start at Barbarossa.
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Id love to play
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Reporting as ordered, van Cougar. :)
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In either case, there's no "campaign mode" that takes you from the beginning of Barbarosa to the end. CM is built to be more one-off than that. I don't think the Russians are all that poorly equipped, either, even early in the war, not judging by the AARs I've read for CMBB games. |
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Need feedback
Okay, we’ve got a good number of folks signed up, so we’ll get rolling soon. First, I’d like to run a few things by everyone. I’d appreciate it if each of you would provide input (or state that you don’t care) on the following options. Cut and paste these questions.
Side: German Axis Minor (Finland, Romanian, Hungarian, Italian) Russian The game is set-up to fight individual battles, or a series of linked battles called operations which are fought over the same ground (these can be intense and very enjoyable). We can do a pre-set battle/operation (this is the only way we could do an operation, but the order-of-battle is pre-determined), or we can do a battle of our own creation (which allows us to customize our battle group). We can always continue with additional battles if this catches on. So… Historical operation or Customized battle All of the following choices also have “random” as an option. In most instances, I recommend selecting random. 1. Location: Finland, North, Central, or South. I have no real preference, although Finland is a very different kind of battle and I’d recommend against it. 2. Force Mix: combined, infantry, mechanized (trucks/halftracks), armor, or pure armor. This determines the cap on points that we can spend on types of units. For example, selecting infantry allows for a lot of infantry and much less armor. We will also select a “division type” (infantry, armor, etc.) which will provide further focus for what types of units we can get (and their cost in points). Unless you have strong feelings about this, I will probably determine this on my own based upon the types of units you each want to play. 3. Quality (of troops): high, medium, or low. This will raise/lower the cost, but affects their morale. I usually go high, but medium is okay too. 4. Battle type: assault, attack, probe, or meeting engagement. This determines strength ratio of attacker to defender, as well as placement of objective flags (they are in the middle for a meeting, but hard to achieve in an assault). Assaults and attacks also allow the defender to dig-in, add minefields & bunkers, etc. I’m open to any. 5. Map type: large town, town, village, farmland, or rural. This affects how many buildings are involved. Different cup of tea in a rural countryside versus a street-by-street battle. Tree coverage, hilliness, previous battle damage, time and weather will all be determined at random. Also, please give me your desired unit type. Infantry platoon? Armor? Armored cars? Halftracks? AT guns? Mobile artillery? Also, let me know if you have any questions about the game or dynasty so we can get them taken care of beforehand. |
1. Central
2. Armor (Blitzkrieg the russkis) 3. Medium or HIgh 4. Random 5. Random I'd like to be Armor if at all possible. |
I'd like to play as the Germans
1. South (Ukranian plains?) 2. Armor 3. High 4. Assault or Attack 5. Countryside with a few dotted buildings, so village? |
I'd vote for the Germans.
I'd actually vote for operation also, as I've never played an operation in CM, be interesting to see how it works. I would prefer a historical scenario also. The Operation might be too tough to match up with the force composition we want, so whatever works. 1. Central 2. Random 3. High 4. Random 5. City (Nothing like some good house to house fighting..) As for unit type, I'd go with Infantry or Armor..not too picky. I'd actually probably prefer Infantry, but whatever is needed more I'm cool with. |
Can I still get in? I missed the main thread the first time by.
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die Deutschen !!! 1.zentral!!! 2.der Panzer!!! 3.groß!!! 4.egal welche!!! 5.die Landschaft!!! Aufheben!!! Ich bin der Berliner!!! |
I think I'll cap the initial list of participants at this point (Tasan, you're in). Anyone else is welcome to sign on for a waiting list.
Looks so far like it's the Germans in the central with armor and high troop quality... |
Cool.
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1. Central
2. Combined 3. High 4. Random 5. Random |
If I still have a chance, I would love to sign up!:)
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dola-
I guess I'm on the waiting list, that's fine. I'm ready for action anytime you need me!:) |
German
1. Random 2. Random 3. Random 4. Assault/Attack 5. Random Armor is fine |
German
1. random 2. combined 3. medium 4. assualt 5. large town unit type - armor or mobile artillary |
First off I have no real preference for which side to play as. I would like to play a historical battle, though. The other questions:
1) No preference 2) Your call 3) Medium 4) Probe 5) Town I'd like to be an infantry platoon unit. |
Germans
Customized South Armor High Assault Farmland |
Side: German - customized battle
Location: North (The drive towards Leningrad!) Force Mix: Armor Troop Quality: High (or medium, but no greenies!) Battle Type: Attack Map Type: Farmland Desired Unit Type: Assuming we're going with armor (and a lot of guys will probably prefer to be driving the panzers) I'll handle a group of follow-up troops in halftracks. After all, someone has to choke on the panzer fumes! :) |
Your call on all of the above man, I'm just happy to be along for the ride.
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Customized battle.
1. Location: South. 2. Force Mix: combined 3. Quality (of troops): high 4. Battle type: meeting engagement. 5. Map type: farmland |
Still awaiting input from Airhog, Blade, blade6119, GoldenEagle, RealDeal, & The Afoci, but some things are pretty clear already:
1. We will be playing as the Germans in a customized scenario (“quick battle” in game terms). 2. We will be representing combined elements of a panzer division. 3. Troop quality will be high 4. Battle type will be random (since we have no consensus whatsoever!). 5. I’m leaning toward farmland as the terrain type. Here’s a possible lineup of unit types and assignments. Nobody panic if you don’t want this, it’s just a starting point for discussion: A platoon of armored cars [sachmo71] Various medium armor (PZ-IIIs & IVs) [ DeToxRox, pskov, SirFozzie, Tasan] A jagdpanzer or two (tank killers) [Travis, Blade] Mobile artillery and/or an assault gun or two [kingfc22, The Afoci] Several platoons of panzer grenadiers, some in half-tracks and/or riding in on the tanks [Calis, DataKing, samifan24] Mortars [MrBug708] One or two heavy weapons platoons (or perhaps engineers with satchel charges & flamethrowers) [Qwikshot, blade6119] Unassigned: Airhog, GoldenEagle, RealDeal |
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Im appy to join qwikshot with heavy weapons, or travis with his tank killers. |
I will go where ever. I have no real preference.
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Thanks, guys - I've updated the tentative assignments, and modified the heavy weapons to include the possibility of engineers. They are always handy for close-in work in towns.
I'm leaning more toward "random" on the terrain type as well. |
I am good with everything stated above...
I would love to either be on a jagdpanzer or in a platoon of panzer grenadiers. Looking forward to this! |
Updated.
Still awaiting input from GoldenEagle, tucker342. 1. We will be playing as the Germans in a customized scenario (“quick battle” in game terms). 2. We will be representing combined elements of a panzer division. 3. Troop quality will be high 4. Battle type will be random (since we have no consensus whatsoever!). 5. I’m leaning toward random terrain type. Here’s a possible lineup of unit types and assignments. Nobody panic if you don’t want this, it’s just a starting point for discussion: A platoon of armored cars [sachmo71] Various medium armor (PZ-IIIs & IVs) [ DeToxRox, pskov, SirFozzie, Tasan] A jagdpanzer or two (tank killers) [Travis, Blade] Mobile artillery and/or an assault gun or two [kingfc22, The Afoci] Several platoons of panzer grenadiers, some in half-tracks and/or riding in on the tanks [Calis, DataKing, samifan24] Mortars [MrBug708] One or two heavy weapons platoons (or perhaps engineers with satchel charges & flamethrowers) [Qwikshot, blade6119, RealDeal] Unassigned: GoldenEagle, tucker342 |
PLEASE READ: Here’s a bit more on the game and what’s involved for a unit.
As noted before, units are plotted for movement/fire and then the game plays out in one-minute turns. The units will perform some things on their own if left alone, but of course we don’t want that! Command & control is very important. A unit within the command range of its leader will respond much quicker to orders, and will perform better in terms of morale and actions. You can get things accomplished with haphazard command & control, but it is not a good policy! Units are rated on a variety for things. A few of them are # of men & equipment, # and types of ammo, morale, type of cover, in/out of command. Okay, let’s start with infantry (I’ll cover vehicles in a later post). Each of you infantry types will be representing the platoon leader. In the case of panzer grenadiers, that will ordinarily mean that you are responsible for your personal command squad and three other squads of troops (the base German squad is 10 men). They are armed with rifles, machine pistols, light machine guns (LMG), and grenades. In the case of a heavy weapons platoon, you will have various teams of 2-5 men and might have LMG and HMG, mortars, panzerfaust teams (the German bazooka), and flame-throwers, although I’m not sure on the exact make-up. Engineers have fewer squads but they are heavily armed and add flame-throwers and satchel charges, which are quite effective on tanks and buildings. For ALL of these squads/teams, you do not pick and choose weaponry; you either select an identified target (example: a Russian infantry squad), target “area fire” (for example, firing at a building even if you have not spotted anything in it), or simply letting the unit decide on its own. The game’s AI is pretty sharp for this. You can also set “ambush” ranges or areas that the unit will wait for. Other than that, however, the unit itself will use its weapons and ammunition as it sees fit. Ammo DOES play a key role. Once ammo is gone, the unit will only fire sporadically in its own defense. Movement can use a variety of speeds. Run is the fastest, but exhausts the men quickly. It also exposes the unit to enemy fire – you don’t want to get caught running in the open! Walking is next (pretty straightforward). Sneaking is moving slowly using cover. Crawling is the slowest form of movement. Most important rule of thumb for infantry (other than to stay in command range): use cover! All kinds of stuff is available in this game, ranging from buildings of various strength, pine woods, woods, scattered trees, brush, walls, fences, wrecked vehicles, smoke, fire, etc. Be very cautious about advancing under fire without cover. It is a quick ticket to casualties. If you are riding in on tanks or in halftracks, this is both a blessing and a curse. You are much more mobile, but if the vehicle is hit you will take heavy casualties. One squad or two teams can ride on tanks or in halftracks. Any specific questions from you infantry-oriented guys? |
Oh bring on the tanks, they blow up like nice over-ripe tomatoes!
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PLEASE READ
Armor and other vehicles is a little trickier. One thing that I have found in this game is that it is very easy to be over-aggressive with tanks and half-tracks…and if the enemy has anti-tank guns or armor out there, BLAM! You lose your vehicles too damn fast. So… WSUCougar’s first rule for vehicle commanders: BE CAUTIOUS! Don’t plunge ahead into the great unknown. Use cover, and especially high points like hills and ridges. Use teamwork. When it doubt, wait a turn to see what develops. Movement types are available as follows: fast, regular, hunt, hull-down, reverse (there is one more type but I’m drawing a blank and don’t have it in front of me). Fast is best for roads and firm open ground (not in wet! you’ll get bogged.). Sometimes you can make a dash for it across gaps, etc., but this is not advisable. Regular is good for moving in less-then-ideal terrain. Hunting is moving cautiously while looking for targets (not available for some types of vehicles). Hull-down means moving to a spot and looking for an ideal alignment where the tank’s lower hull is hidden by the crest of a hill, ridge, wall, whatever. This reduces the profile of the tank for the enemy to target. It is sort of the “sweet spot” of tank combat. WSUCougar’s second rule for vehicle commanders: RARELY EXPOSE YOUR FLANKS! The armor on a tank is best in the front, and worst in the rear. Many enemy shots (especially smaller caliber) will ricochet off the front armor. Don’t leave your ass hanging in the breeze for long, or it’ll get shot up. Tanks, tank-destroyers, assault guns, and some armored cars and half-tracks usually carry both armor-piercing (AP) and high-explosive (HE) shells. AP is intended for armored targets; HE for infantry, buildings, etc. Some vehicles will carry a few smoke shells as well, which can be used to block enemy line-of-sight or cover one of your own units. Finally, one of the cool things about the game is that spotting and identifying enemy units is never a sure thing. You may start by only hearing tank noises! You may just see “Gun” – it could be a little pop gun, or a heavy AT thumper. Or the ever popular “Tank?” Weak 1920’s version, or state-of-the-art T-34/85? Getting into position to see what you’re facing is half the game (and can be intense). |
Mortar huh?
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engineers or mortars for me
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I'll stick with Mortars for now
(Sorry RD) |
WSUCOugar: I am going to have to decline to play this time. It does seem very interesting, but due to t ime commitments, I feel that I may slow down this game and I dont wish to do that. :)
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tucker342, you are now active! |
you might want to pm that news WSU
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np...i just know your in st.louis, and since i was raised there i know everyone is completely retarded
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I don't have any preference. Whereever you need me is fine.:D
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Updated.
Still awaiting input from GoldenEagle. 1. We will be playing as the Germans in a customized scenario (“quick battle” in game terms). 2. We will be representing combined elements of a panzer division. 3. Troop quality will be high 4. Battle type will be random (since we have no consensus whatsoever!). 5. I’m leaning toward random terrain type. Here’s a possible lineup of unit types and assignments. Nobody panic if you don’t want this, it’s just a starting point for discussion: A platoon of armored cars [sachmo71] Various medium armor (PZ-IIIs & IVs) [ DeToxRox, pskov, SirFozzie, Tasan] A jagdpanzer or two (tank killers) [Travis, Blade] Mobile artillery and/or an assault gun or two [kingfc22, The Afoci] Halftracks (MG, 20mm, and/or other)[tucker342] Several platoons of panzer grenadiers, some in half-tracks and/or riding in on the tanks [Calis, DataKing, GoldenEagle, samifan24] Mortars [MrBug708] One or two heavy weapons platoons (or perhaps engineers with satchel charges & flamethrowers) [Qwikshot, blade6119, RealDeal] |
Medium Armour is fine with me. Could we do a late war scen though? I just find Panther vs JS-II more appealing than Pz III vs KV-1
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Nah, we're gonna start in 1941, I think. Do you have a preference on the Pz-III version? |
* German
* Attacker, assult * infantry * City |
What type of armored cars are they, Cougar?
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Three questions for you:
1. For us "soft targets" riding around in halftracks, will the halftracks be considered under our command? I ask because, on top of providing transportation, halftracks and their armament (MG42s, light ATGs, etc) can provide some nice local fire support. 2. Can infantry units "pop smoke?" I've found that strategically-placed smoke can be your best friend when you're not sitting behind a few centimeters of armor plating. 3. Maybe I missed it, but do infantry platoons have dedicated fire support, in the form of machinegun and light mortar (50mm) squads? Can you tell I'm big on fire support and fire superiority? :) |
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My prefered model would be Pz-III Ausf. H, but thats assuming no chance of getting an Ausf. M. (Or Flammenpanzer ;)) |
Specifics of our battle set-up:
Time: June, 1941 (The first month of Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of Russia) Side: Germans, unit quality high, panzer division (mechanized) To be randomly determined: location (north, central, or south), battle type (assault, attack, probe, or meeting engagement), map type (large town, town, village, farmland, or rural), tree coverage, hills, previous battle damage, time and weather. My proposal for the make-up of our battle group: (4) Pz-IIIH medium tanks [2 DeToxRox, 2 pskov] (4) Pz-IVD medium tanks [2 SirFozzie, 2 Tasan] (4) PSW 222 armored cars [sachmo71] (2) Sturmgeschutz IIIb assault guns [kingfc22] (4) Jagdpanzer I tank-hunters [2 Travis, 2 blade6119] (1) Infantry Company, consisting of: a. HQ, 2 HMGs [DataKing = company commander]* b. (3) Infantry platoons, each consisting of HQ, 3 squads, 50mm mortar [Blade, Calis, samifan24] (1) Pioneer (engineer) Platoon, consisting of HQ, 6 squads, 3 flamethrowers, 7 halftracks [RealDeal, GoldenEagle, Qwikshot** (3) 81mm mortar teams [MrBug708 (8) Halftracks [4 tucker342, 4 The Afoci] * I assigned DataKing as company commander due to his experience with the other dynasty; if he does not want to do it, or if someone else really wants to instead, speak up ** The pioneer platoon has some flexibility in terms of who gets what. I can also attach an HMG to this platoon. A suggestion would be one of you is platoon leader with HQ, HMG, a halftrack, and a flamethrower; then 3 squads, 3 halftracks, and a flamethrower for the other two. Issues: The regular infantry company will not have transportation of their own. They will either foot-slog it, ride the Pz-IIIs & IVs, or use some of the unattached halftracks. MrBug’s mortars will also probably need halftrack transport initially, although mortars generally don’t need (or want) to move around after they find a good spot. x x x x x Okay, what I’d like to get is a “sound-off” post from everyone involved to verify that you are still on-board and that you approve of your unit assignment. If anyone is unhappy and wants something else, just say so (I won’t be upset – I made some assumptions putting this together). Also, feel free to post any questions. Once we’re good to go I’ll start-up the official dynasty thread and we’ll get rolling. One more logistical issue and question for you guys. I will be taking screenshots of the game from various perspectives. The game is incredibly flexible when it comes to this. I intend an “overhead” view, perhaps a “behind the Germans” view, and then individual views from each of the units. Do you guys have any requests about how to structure these? Do you want the “overall” view, or should we perhaps limit it to just at the beginning (to keep it “realistic”)? Also, how best to post the images? Uploads? Or can someone “host” them (I’m not sure how to do that)? Anyway, let me know. |
I'm happy with this. I was hoping to get the Panzer IV anyway. Fond fond memories of them in Panzer General II.
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sound off. Can't wait to start. I only know one thing, and that's attacking.
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I am still here, and ready to go! However, you got Blade6119 and I mixed up...I think we are supposed to be assigned opposite to how you have us.
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I'm here and ready to go!
I can deal with the lack of transport also, I don't like being cooped away and just waiting to get blown all to hell anyway. Is the map size random? I can't remember if that's even an option, so not sure. Just curious how far will be marching it. :) As for the pictures, I have no real preference. I think the ideas you said sound good. |
sounds good with me
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I'm here. I can host a few pictures if you need me too, but I don't have oodles of space.
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And are you okay with the armored cars, or would you rather have something else? * * * * * Blade, are you okay with the infantry? I know you said panzer grenadiers (and jagdpanzer) but you'll be riding in with the tanks. Let me know if you definitely want to switch out. * * * * * RealDeal, any input on the break-down of the pioneer platoon? * * * * * Any other input on the game images? This is kind of important because it will provide you guys with what you are facing. |
Captain DataKing, reporting in! If you need someone to host the pictures, let me know. I can do it, but would not be able to do so until I get home from work each evening.
Kingfc22, prepare to be hearing from me often. There's little better than an assault gun when enemy troops need to be "softened up" a bit...and that nice thick armor skin you guys carry around will come in handy too, I'm sure. :) |
I'm in and DataKing, I'm here when you need me.
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Sound off.
I would like toh have our images restriceted to a somewhat realistic level. i.e. A shot looking around from varoius units POV. I think it will be more challenging (and fun) if we restrict ourseleves this way. |
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Not a problem at all! I am here to serve! :) |
Ready for orders, my platoon will be more than happy to take the MG unit, if there are no other takers...(I know I know lugging that sucker around will be rough, but I plan to ambush:) )
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I'm here and ready for action!
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I'm here and ready to accept my assignment, sir!
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Here
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Present and ready to roll.
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I've got oodles of space, and no bandwidth restrictions. Its a little server I have here at the house. Its always up, so that shouldn't be an issue either. Anyway, if you need it, its at your disposal.
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Cougar,
I have 10 megs of space avaliable, but I guess that problem has already been solved. As far as armored cars go, I'm fine with that. :) |
Out of curiousity, how is this game? I have seen it in the local shops, and been tempted to buy it, but have not taken the plunge yet...
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If you're a wargame fan at all..or really even if not, get it.
Best wargame around imo, and one of my all-time favorites. Just a blast to play. |
Reporting to duty!
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They also just came out with the 3rd edition...Afrika Corps. *slobber* Try out the demo! Here's the website: Battlefront.com |
hmmmm I'll have to check it out...
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Awaiting sound-offs from DeToxRox, SirFozzie, and GoldenEagle before we proceed with the festivities.
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WSUCougar, have you sent me the test image yet?
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Here's a test pic for everyone to see:
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How do I soundoff?
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Thanks Tasan - Here's the caption, guys:
In the foreground is one of MrBug’s mortars. In the second row, left to right, is one of kingfc22’s assault guns (a Sturmgeschütz-IIIb, if you’re scoring at home), an infantry squad (the game represents squads with three figures, even though there are 10 guys in it), a PZ-IIIh, and sachmo’s PSW222 armored car. Across the back row are two halftracks (251/10 with a 37mm gun, and the more common 251/1 with MG), the Panzerjäger tank-hunter, and the PZ-IVd. Quote:
Okay, what I’d like to get is a “sound-off” post from everyone involved to verify that you are still on-board and that you approve of your unit assignment. If anyone is unhappy and wants something else, just say so (I won’t be upset – I made some assumptions putting this together). Also, feel free to post any questions. One more logistical issue and question for you guys. I will be taking screenshots of the game from various perspectives. The game is incredibly flexible when it comes to this. I intend an “overhead” view, perhaps a “behind the Germans” view, and then individual views from each of the units. Do you guys have any requests about how to structure these? Do you want the “overall” view, or should we perhaps limit it to just at the beginning (to keep it “realistic”)? |
Soooooooound off!
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Okay, we're getting close. Still awaiting a final okay from GoldenEagle and a reply from DeToxRox and we're good to go. I will start up a new thread at that point.
Prep your troops, gentleman. Operation Barbarossa begins shortly! |
Souding off. I perfer the overhead view, but any will work with me.
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Things are good here. Overhead would be nice I think.
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Impartial to the view
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This post will close out this thread, as we move on into battle. Special thanks again to Tasan for hosting our images.
Here's the new thread: Combat Mission II: Interactive Dynasty |
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