SWAT raid on Missouri family
 

i don't know what to say. but the sound of that dog hurts my soul.

source

Um, you might want to warn people if animals are being killed in that video.

I didn't actually watch but read the story earlier today.

edit: I guess it does say "Cop shoots Pet" in the title.

I can't watch the video, but my guess it was officials from the Big Ten doing due diligence?

Umm...ok, nevermind.

This is the natural and inevitable consequence of our "tough on crime" and "war on drugs" policies and rhetoric.

If just 5% of the "get government off our backs" crowd that is all in vogue right now could turn its focus away from slight changes to marginal tax rates and toward armed government agents storming homes with no regard for civil liberties, it would be a really, really good thing.

I believe that our country has gone so far down the road of exchanging liberty for the illusion of security that things like this will be really really hard to undo. And that really, really, really fucking sucks. Maybe one of the worst things about living in America now as opposed to at another time in history.

And, with that, I'm leaving this thread. Civil liberties mean a lot to me, and there is no way that I could stand reading FOFC's take on this without getting legit pissed at some of you.

So I'll go find some thread about boobs.

I just read about this case yesterday. What a mess. They charge into the guy's house while the mother and daughter are home. They then shoot the dog while in SWAT gear with the child still in the house. They do all of this hoping to prove the guy is distributing marijuana. Instead they find enough for an individual to use and that's it. A SWAT raid for a guy using marijuana? And what makes this worse is that they now want to get the mom and dad for child endangerment. Which is more dangerous? Mom and dad with marijuana or the SWAT coming in armed and shooting the family dog? Just nuts.

Is there a news story associated with this?

I wonder if there are any legal issues with killing that poor dog.

Hard for me to get upset with cops encountering a pit bull while conducting a drug raid & taking it down. Pity they didn't take out the suspect as well.

I find myself agreeing with this viewpoint more and more. Yay boobs!

Nevermind - I should have just waited for the replies.

I am with albion on this one.

Disgusting.

Ironically, if word got out that there was a thread about boobies here, we'd likely see the FOFC SWAT team shoot all of our dogs in an attempt to shut it down.

great post

The only problem I have with that is they were in SWAT uniforms which included kevlar. I don't know how much damage a pitbull is going to do to an officer in that gear.

GOOD THING THEY SHOT THE FEROCIOUS CORGI, TOO!

You don't know ... but there's no good reason for them to have to find out either.

you're right. they should have 'cleansed' the whole community with fire. why take chances that their degenerate seed might contaminate future generations.

goddamn hippies.

Subby is right. I had heard there was a corgi that was shot as well, but I wasn't certain if that was true or not. If so then would you be more concerned or still have the same answer?

They should have shot the kid as well, if he bites it could lead to an infection...

Zombie apocalypse?!

Here Video of SWAT Raid on Missouri Family - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine and then it links to others as well.

See the thread I just created. Although it's SFW.

Seems like a case where no one was right - the parents had illegal drugs in the house and the police appeared to grossly overreact; however, we don't know what information the police were acting on (other than it was wrong), so it's hard to say how bad their response was (for example, did they have solid evidence that the suspects were heavily armed). Their actions, while wrong in the end, may have been justifiable. The only thing we know for sure is that there were illegal drugs in the house. There is no justification for having drugs in a house with a 7 year old kid.

Is the dog sitting in the corner or acting in a threatening manner in the process of the arrest?

The corgi was probably angry as hell. ;)

The dog doesn't know what the hell is going on, just that scary looking people are walking through their house. Ultimately it's the idiot that got his ass arrested fault, but they should have made more attempt to not shoot the dogs.

is it sop to tape these things? wouldn't this be a tape the pd accidently 'misplaces'?

-what should i do with the tape chief?

-uhh, why don't you give it to a liberal media blog then file it under 'moral outrage'

FWIW reason.com is far from a liberal media blog.

Yeah, c'mon guys, screw that dog. It clearly should have been literate enough to read SWAT on the uniforms to determine that these were officers of the law and not armed intruders. It's his problem for being ignorant and illiterate.

You do not SWAT raid a family home over pot, unless you are 100% sure the house is growing it or storing mass quantities.

Would a SWAT team night raid a family home, guns blazing, of a white collar guy who is suspected of heavy corruption? Just on the off chance of finding felony evidence? I don't smoke pot, never will, but some police offices need to get a grip on the current social seriousness threat that pot places on the American public. The answer? Low threat. Not SWAT team worthy unless a sure thing and no risk to family members. That should be god damn obvious.

This.

And this is what matters, not some fucking pit bull & some fucking piece of shit pothead.

all media is liberal.

Yes, because pot is so bad...

They were sure enough to satisfy a judge & get a warrant, so what level of proof would satisfy you? Or how many dead cops does it take before you can use SWAT?

Sorry, but I've mourned the death of too many officers I knew who found themselves in a situation where the manpower was insufficient for the situation to ever worry for a second about who/what they send to get the job done.

I'd like nothing more than to see these fucking criminals executed on their second possession arrest. They're less than vermin afaic & I've got no real use for those who try to excuse their behavior either.

Information is rarely 100% accurate - the police must make the best decision given the information they have. We don't know what evidence they were acting on other then they had reason to believe there was a large amount of drugs (which was wrong). The outcome doesn't mean their decision was wrong, just the information they were acting on was bad. We don't know enough to judge yet.

Your second point should really be directed to the lawmakers rather than the police. The police's job is to enforce the law, and the law basically says that drug users are serious criminals who must be stopped at all cost.

Or a couple shots of Jack Daniel's...

I'm not even blaming the cops on the scene for what they did in this one, it's a fucking SWAT team afterall. They aren't put together for pleasantries. I blame the judge, and yes there are plenty of idiot judges, and the higher ups in the police department that OKed a SWAT raid on a family house when obviously it wasn't a good bet there would be a large quantity of pot there.

But there HAS to be a line. You don't send a SWAT team for every warrant, that is obvious. And you shouldn't have a warrant when you can't find close to dealer level amounts of pot in a house.

(Even enough to deal "some" pot shouldn't be SWAT raided in this situation, catch him on the street or while dealing in the house, but there wasn't even enough in the house for that apparently.)

i never realized how awesomely vigilant jimg was.

go hug a leaky oil well ya sissy liberal fruits.

Man, this post is gonna seem funny in 5 years, when Jim is hauled away to jail for stockpiling black market Pall Malls.

If you are storming a house with a group of heavily armed men in kevlar suits and have to shoot a Corgi to protect yourself. Aren't you sort of admitting to being a raging pussy? I understand that bad things can happen in SWAT raids, but do you guys really want someone who is that afraid handling a heavy firearm in your community?

I agree, if their procedure encourages that level of assessment of dogs. Given what SWAT teams do, however, they may be taught simply "the dog advances on you, shoot him." Which is understandable given the normal types of situations SWAT teams are put in. All the more reason they shouldn't have been near a house like this.

Is everyone just assuming they individually shot the Corgi? Is it possible that when they shot at the pitbull, the Corgi was hit by a stray bullet?

U.S. Government Declares Country's Marijuana Users Responsible for Fueling Mexican Cartel Violence (Latina Lista)

I'm not going to get involved with the why's and if's as to whether this house should have been raided and whether some judgment calls might have been overdone once in there. But I don't think there's any place to call someone on a SWAT team a 'raging pussy'. These guys risk their lives on a daily basis not having any idea what is on the other side of a door/wall when they go in. They are some brave dudes.

Great reason to make it legal and allow legal taxation upon the crops and sale of it.

As an aside: how the hell do they get those numbers? A "market analysis" of Mexican drug cartels and millions of individual American users? Color me skeptical times a million.

If you feel this is a threat to you, then yes, you are a raging pussy.

Pretty sure there was a time lapse between the time they shot each dog.

I guess that would be all the more reason to be upset at the situation. Firing weapons in close quarters have risks and a stray bullet could have hit the kid too.

God damn! I'd be one step away from execution!

Looking through the laws by country, not even the Muslim countries execute for simple possession.

Thankfully people that think like you are being marginalized more and more every day.

Jim's a smoker, so one of two things is going to happen:

A. He smokes himself to death. WIN!

B. They finally label Tobacco a narcotic and he gets tossed in Jail for his huge stash of Pall Malls. WIN!


Either way this is WIN WIN.

JiMG is a fucking tool.

Had to think long and hard about who you were talking about...

Wait, so is this socialism gone wrone? Are we for the police or against them? I thought we didn't want to live in a police state...

...man, being a wingnut is so confusing.

My general understanding is that the far left wants the government to tell everyone what to do EXCEPT criminals.

I'm gonna go with RainMaker here.

I can't imagine anyone with a weapon seriously believing they were threatened by a corgi. Pretty much even if a dog like this bites you...you can end the threat short of gunfire.

My corgis once cornered a rabbit. They are herding dogs, and the damn rabbit kept moving. Once they got it seriously cornered, the rabbit charged one of them. The dog couldn't back pedal fast enough. These aren't threatening dogs.

He asked for a news story, not a "glorified blog"...

Somehow I doubt they had a purebred. Probably a mix and a mix with what would depend on the answer to the question but it makes better news calling it a corgi.

On one hand, reason.com's investigation, where they have actually looked into the matter, is insufficient.

On the other hand, "somehow I doubt" is supposed to be credible?

From what I've read it was a mix of Corgi and communist tiger.

over/under that 7 year old goes on to found project mayhem?

All of that for pot? What's next, SWAT teams busting down doors because you have too much beer in your refridgerator?

Cause if we are going to polarize every debate, the political left is really the side of the spectrum that has been against civil liberties (and therefor telling people what to do), really? Really?! I guess it is having the government "telling people what to do" when it is an issue one doesn't agree with.

Sigh

No, the left wants to tell you what to do with your money, the right wants to tell you to do with your lives.

No excuse what so ever for what the police did in this situation. None. Unacceptable on every level.

More like they want fewer people to be considered criminals

Yippee, I've been dissed by our resident whackadoo. My life is now complete.

Gonna be more difficult to find that, since this isn't particularly newsworthy. Hell, it's already 3 months old before it even fans the lefty flames of FOFC.

To be fair, that's a German Sheppard named "Dorf."

That's why I said there were news stories linked in the "blog".

This must be the "B" SWAT team.

After reading all the articles that have been written on this, I think we can conclude the following:

First, they demonstrate abysmally poor reconnaissance skills. After first being given direction to conduct a day raid so there was less chance the wife and child would be home, they call that off and perform a night raid without ascertaining if the wife and child are still home.

Second, they fail threat assessment. Guys in kevlar feel threatened enough by a pit bull to shoot it to kill, in close quarters where they might kill a child? Quality decision-making, guys.

Third, they exhibit a lack of fire control, evidenced by shooting the corgi after the pit bull. You want these guys to operate in residential areas? Really? Hope your legal defense fund is in good shape.

Some lawyer's going to have a field day with this.

I'm pretty sure that if my neighbor's pit bull was being as "aggressive" as that one and, say, endangering my child and I shot it (on the owner's property, no less) with that little provocation, I would get sued and I would lose.

I suspect you're going to see the same thing happen here. The PD is going to get sued, some officers are going to get suspended for a bit and there'll be some re-training in appropriate decision making.

I'm normally a big fan of cops doing whatever it takes to keep themselves safe, but the way this video plays out, it looks and feels like a training exercise for a bunch of newbie cops gone wrong. Like flere says above, if these were just regular regular cops serving a warrant, I'd be more willing to give them some benefit of the doubt (scared, trigger-happy, adrenaline rush) since they're not generally put in these types of situations.

SWAT is specifically trained to deal with these situations and should be held to a higher standard. In my mind, they didn't meet it, and they put innocents in danger. They shot the dog *before* they'd identified the location of the child (which isn't surprising, since they apparently didn't know the child was in the house...). Their only suspect was the husband, which means they willingly placed innocents in harms way in the interest of making the arrest.

The motto of the police department is Protect and Serve, not Arrest and Detain (which I would call a "corollary, but secondary function." Protect and Serve is their primary charge, and at that, they failed in favor of their secondary objective.

I feel honored, I've gone from a mid-pack melodramatic to a "Resident whackadoo"


THANKS JON!

Every time you post you make all of us look that much better.

I've lost track for who's for civil liberties anymore, I was just saying in a far (extreme) left world, you tend to have a lot of police running around. The lines do get blurred at the fringes. Extreme far right/extreme far left do need a pretty heavy police presence to keep things there.

For what it is worth. SWAT ain't what most of us figure it is. In most communities the bar is pretty low for an officer to qualify for a SWAT unit.

That's a good point. My county is small enough that we don't have a SWAT team, but I imagine that the Columbia SWAT wouldn't be confused with the LAPD SWAT or even the St. Louis SWAT.

What's all this talk about Jim Sorgi about?

To me, the dog would certain be susceptible to gunfire if they inhibited the officers from properly doing their job. The last thing the SWAT officer needs to do is trip over a dog while trying to neutralize a suspect. Not saying it was the right thing to do, but I seriously doubt the officer's intent was to go in there and kill any dog who stood in his way. Or maybe the suspect threw the dog at officers?

Did you even watch the video?

If we're just speculating for justifications, maybe the dog was actually the keymaster from Ghostbusters.

I feel the same about white collar criminals.

Huh?

He is wanting to know if you watched the video...cause the dog was in a completely separate room then where the "suspect" was.

This is starting to make sense. :D

I watched the video. That doesn't mean the SWAT officer wasnt in danger of tripping over the dog

SWAT officers who trip over dogs in a house with all of the lights on should be fired for lack of appropriate mobility. Those guys weren't even moving double time. If the dog was a tripping danger to any of them, they're not coordinated enough to be handling firearms for a living.

Our house has so many tripping hazards they'd have to firebomb the whole darned thing.

When my kids were toddlers, I used to trip over them all the damned time. I guess they go on the list as well.

I tend to agree with Jon more than most, and for the most part believe if you break the law you get what you deserve, but this goes beyond excessive.

Admittedly I love my dogs, but if that was one of my Labs, I swear I would hunt and kill everyone of those a**holes....

They could very well be trained to shoot all dogs during the process of a raid, I don't know. As had been said, they are not trained for pleasantries and the problem isn't what they did, it's why they were even there.

And on this I disagree 100%, break the law and you are subject to arrest.
You are not subject to have your property and pets destroyed/

I would say we actually agree :).

I am not saying they don't deserve to be arrested. I am specifically saying SWAT shouldn't have been sent in on a raid to accomplish it, which equates to the damage you oppose.

So I don't blame SWAT, I blame whatever failure in the system allowed them to be there. If it turns out they really are guilty of dealing huge quantities of drugs and somehow hid things, then I really won't shed a tear over anything.

Again, I am sure this is a minority view point. But I dont care if they were dealing cargo ships full, there is no excuse for murdering their dog, unless he was actively mule-ing the dope. I dont care who they send, but they do need to act professionally not like a bunch of drunk fat boys on a panty raid.

Oh yeah, easily disagree there. Its not about punishment, it's about mitigating risk in an unknown environment for the safety of the raiding party.

I'm not sure why anyone would think steps should be taken that endanger the cops while protecting the criminal's personal property.

That said, this certainly doesn't apply to a recreational pot smoker. There are plenty of options on how to accomplish that safely, like not pinching them in a house.

Where's that picture from? It's funny.

Let me caveat my statement...
I would consider myself to be more conservative than any other viewpoint..
I also have a background in the type of thing you saw conducted in that video except at a much different level...
Um...yeah that SWAT Team is basically a band of hillbilly retards with zero clue how to clear a house.
To say that what happened was embarrassing is a slight understatement. Endstate should be Commander fired, trigger puller(s) fired..They did a shitsuck job..Also fuck the guy who got arrested, he broke the law so I gives a damn about him going to jail..But if he's got to pay so do the "SWAT"(seriously these guys are about as highly trained as..well they just suck)Team Members..
JMG..I understand you have seen dudes lost for various reasons...been there brother done that..Don't make 12 dudes kitted up with submachine guns layin waste to Scruffy right..Sorry..

Fuck that guy for dealing drugs and fuck that SWAT team for their horrible decision making...It's a lose lose!

Also my language was atrocious, I apologize

bigmike wins.

errr wait - can you define "a background in those things that you saw, except at a much different level" more clearly for us please?

Haha no, I won't get into that, if you're really curious ill get with you off the forum about it..Obviously I don't want to start a piss contest here since this is a board related to football text simulations! However the first time I saw this video was on this forum (love this forum by the way) and it was so ridiculous I couldn't hold back..