Front Office Football Central - Werewolf CXL - The Dark Knight Returns

I would have thought 6 pages would have taken longer then about 20 minutes to read, good thing, or bad, that is was about 150 posts, or at least seemed like, about music.

Some of my thoughts on todays posts about actual game stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo (Post 2551218)

So the police then. If they make a block then I think they should reveal the fact straight away so we know that it's a block rather than a conversion. After they've made a block they become a martyr so I doubt they'll be very interesting to Two-Face and that shouldn't be an issue. I think we're better off knowing that there could be two kills coming the next night or not.

I'm not sure I buy this. I think police should not reveal if they've made a block or not, regardless of how it happens. As someone else stated and quoted below, we will find out shortly if a conversion happened or not. I see nothing good that comes out knowing a block was made as we will still have 5 people we want to kill and just outed a BG. Even if they are a Martyr they can still be a martyr for an important role rather than just being NK'd.

Also, I quoted a few posts and will basically leave them here as a reference later on even if I don't refer to all of them as I found them interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinto (Post 2551226)

I don't think I necessarily agree with the second block being useless. There are definitely advantages to having that second block/martyr depending on the situation the village finds itself in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinto (Post 2551228)

I guess it depends where we are in the game and who is revealing as the bodyguard. If the seer(s) is out of the game why not kill the bodyguard? It is probably important for the bodyguard to come out if they did a successfully block someone, since if they do not do so it is probably going to cause confusion during the next day if they do not.

What about the forensic people, they are just a tad below seers in terms of importance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinto (Post 2551229)

I can also see why the bodyguard would want to keep it a secret to who they blocked because unlike other games it does not clear the other person. To even get into more since the bodyguards can not protect themselves, they probably shouldn't block anyone the first few nights since a block on a vanilla villager is a poor exchange for a bodyguard.

For some reason as I was reading, I got a big wolf vibe on you because of all your posts on this subject. Partially because of them being in favor of possibly revealing or not even blocking. I think there should be blocks done as there is a 60% chance they block someone that is not a vanilla and it could prevent a disturbed from being converted or losing an important role. I'd take the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 2551238)

Also, to chime in on the bodyguard thing - if there is a conversion won't we know 24 hours later if/when there is an extra kill? Given that we'll see the by-product of a conversion show up as a secondary kill, I'm not sure I agree that the best play is for a bodyguard to reveal. As previously noted, there may be situations where the martyr is preferable to the wolves getting to pick their kill. And if a bodyguard does go out as a martyr then they would definitely have done their job this game by denying the wolves their targets two separate times.

This was the post I was referring to and 100% agree with. Not sure why some are voting for you, will have to re-look at their reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danny (Post 2551242)

Just to expand on that, but if the wolves want to target martyrs that is a good thing as it guarantees are more important roles live longer. I see no reason for a martyr not to reveal upon a block.

I could see this being useful, but I don't know if I'd want to have the wolves be guaranteed to take out a roled villager.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 2551255)

I still say Autumn is somehow guilty. I really want to vote for him

This is just because I agree with it after last game. I'm not a fan of your mentioning several times about being a disturbed citizen even if "in jest" as it is a perfect way for two-face to at least try to NK you. Unless you are just a vanilla, then keep it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal (Post 2551264)

I'm thinking about the logic of a martyr revealing. Since there is the opportunity for a multiple kill/block situation on the same person, I would think the wolves would want to remove that opportunity in case an important role is forced to reveal. The less wolves required to kill one person, the better for them. Of course they can't speak to coordinate such attacks, so at least there's that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal (Post 2551266)

And I'm not sure if knowing there's going to be two kills the next night changes how the day goes. Though if the forensic officers go early, and a martyr gets killed without saying they got a block, then we'll be left in the dark if they don't hit multiple kills in the same night. So I guess I'm leaning towards more public info as well in terms of a martyr reveal.

I think even if a Martyr gets killed without saying there is a block we will find out shortly if there was a block or not. So it will eventually come out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 2551271)

Narc, are you suggesting you want the bodyguards to reveal when they don't get a block and there is no night kill so we know there has been a conversion?

There are a bunch of potential scenarios that could play out:
1.) There is a night kill - no discussion
2.) There is no night kill, by the bodyguards know there was a block
3.) There is no night kill, and the bodyguards know there was no block

I thought the original argument was around #2, but post #225 sounds like you are adding in #3 as a case for reveals as well. Am I reading this correctly?

I also want to clarify now that I'm not a bodyguard, but I'm interested in some of the arguments that are being raised here because they don't coincide with my first instinct for how to play that role. Hopefully the folks who actually are the bodyguards are sitting back and taking this all in rather than inadvertently outing themselves by being too fervent in this discussion.

Didn't get that from any post, but could have missed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopsguy (Post 2551276)

I'm under the impression no one can send PMs, but each of the bodyguards will know what their results were.

This is why I believe that we're heading down a dangerous path in terms of bodyguards revealing info on a non-kill day where they did not get the block. Because they would still have their block in hand and be unable to protect themselves. I can at least understand the logic if they got a block and are converted to martyr status, but I don't get it at all in scenario #3 I outlined above.

Again, agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal (Post 2551326)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the only post so far truly referencing looking inside of people's posts:

Not getting a bad vibe from Zinto or anything, but I know when I've had a role in the past like a lone wolf sometimes I just go ahead and straight ask a question about the role in the thread or talk about people looking for it to try and signal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J23 (Post 2551431)

I'm here. As for the whole cop thing, I think I'd agree that a cop that makes a block should come forward and mention it. I agree it wouldn't be smart to have them come forward to say they didn't block anything though (unless they're closing in on being lynched and need to reveal of course).

Quote:

Originally Posted by saldana (Post 2551643)

this might be the worst day one's postings ever, lol

there is barely a speck of werewolf going on right now, and any conversation that involved hoops' carpet needs to result in immediate lynching

because he got the joke wrong

vote narcizo

I agree, was dissapointed with all the music talk when I saw all the pages to read; however, it was easier for me to catch up when I didn't have any time today to read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Jackal (Post 2551679)

Just the fact that no one can communicate. The only thing anyone knows about anyone is that 4 people (aside from two-face himself) know who two-face is. So that's all we have to harp on, but we've been saying that all day, so unless we actually have him on the block right now, it's going to be pretty useless.

This is not really accurate as the scans can kinda clear people and I thought it was mentioned the BGs know who each other are, maybe that was wrong reading the rules, and the superhero wannabe knows batman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrith (Post 2551732)

Well, when I saw there were five more pages of post since last night I was concerned it was going to take a while to catch up. It appears those fears were unfounded :P

This ruleset is far enough removed from a normal game that I'm not sure the usual MO applies here - I think a reasonable case could be made for no lynch here. We have two seers, in a sense, and two bodyguards - it might be in the best interest of the village to play for time.

The flip side of this is that it's going to be very hard for the wolves to form a defense, in the event that we do stumble upon someone early. By the same token, though, it's going to be hard to use vote records for a while, since the disturbed citizens can't come to each other's defense. We can still mine the data looking for Two-Face though...and I suppose we have no choice but to lynch people and try. It just feels like this game is a lot higher variance than normal.

In terms of the D1 vote, for meta reasons I'm disinclined to vote for Zinto - I feel like he's part of a subsection of WW players that tends to take a lot of D1 heat, in my experience. But I'm also loathe to vote for hoops just for the sake of not voting for Zinto, because I feel like he'll be extremely useful at putting forth ideas on how to deal with this funky ruleset. Even if he's a wolf he'll have to give us something, and it can at least be a starting point for speculation.

At the same time, dumping a vote on someone with two votes (as I started writing this the thread was through #392) is just going to make me look like a wolf. Blah.

Not sure why him taking D1 heat is a reason not to vote him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox (Post 2551749)

wow i forgot you were playing, commo!

Yeah, very busy day today, had to sit in a 6 hour conference where I unfortunately had to pay attention the entire time.