I generally agree in regards to quality, but my point is that if the government uses privatized insurance, there's a high likelihood that they'll pay more in premiums than they ever did before and there's still no guarantee that the quality will improve. I'm not sure they fully understand the ramifications of what would happen if they moved it to privatized insurance. It could easily add more levels of management and costs rather than reduce the cost to the taxpayers.

I don't know if that's it. The VA does pretty good work and is going to get a sizable increase in funding if the current budget passes. It's such a small total amount of money that I'm not sure what the rational might be. When some more details get released to clarify the intent it might make more sense.

For now I'll resist the urge to get really peeved and wait for some information.

I don't think I can agree with that -- moving it to privatized insurance would add more levels of management and costs than having the government pay for it, in your opinion? If you say so. :)

Commie.

what are you politically? - Front Office Football Central

Pretty old poll, but most of the people posting in the thread are still here, and I doubt things on this board have changed so much that it's now a "left-leaning board by a heavy margin".

I always thought this board to be pretty evenly mixed. Lots of republicans, lots of democrats, some independents and even a few representatives of the extreme.

Enjoy Boise :p:D

SI

Fixed.

So... I already assumed that. Clearly making private insurance companies pay will only result in higher premiums - I think that's fairly straightforward.

I guess my question, which the article 100% didn't address, is why the Obama Administration is pursuing this as a possibility. I mean, there has to be a reason, even if it's a dumb one, but the article doesn't touch on this. Anyone know?

That's what I was trying to get at. It seems like such a poor move, just politically speaking, that I'm wondering what more there might be to the story. Unless Obama just wants to stick it to vets for some personal reason.

This is exactly why I object to posting a press release and calling it a news story. Clearly the American Legion has an agenda they're trying to push.

Based on my brother's experience, I can say that once you beat their beancounters into submission, the VA does do pretty good work. The treatment he eventually got at their speciality center in the Twin Cities has been excellent, and put to rest a number of his lingering physiological issues.

Of course, it was a long road to get there, and included a few spots of getting the VA (using their own policies against them) to pay for private care he received (when no VA care was forthcoming).

Unfortunately not everyone can speak to the specific merits of a very large plan. Is it so wrong for someone to say "It got screwed up and I hope it gets fixed"? That does not mean they are playing partisan politics.

It's not the best comparison since one is asking for political leaning and the other who you're going to vote for/probably going to vote for, but there has been a shift:

March 2004


October 2008 FOFC Presidential Election Poll


Repubs - 37% -> 23%
Dems - 24% -> 58%
Indy/Lib/Other third party 31% -> 9%

Not the best comparison as I said due to independents often choosing the guy they hate least in an election but still the shift is too big to dismiss IMO. It'd be interesting to see the results of a poll with the same parameters as the 2004 one.

That was also 2004. I think a lot of people have adjusted their political beliefs over the last 4-5 years.

I'm not in the party fight, but there are more Democrats registered than Republicans. They hold heavy majorities in the House and Senate and had states like Georgia and Montana in play this election.

Where's Kodos?! :D

the polls arent rolling averages so theyre bunk anyways :)

Dude, don't wear out that meme before the midterm elections.

its important to keep garbage rhetoric at the tip of the spear for when it is attempted to be hammered out again :)

:rant:

I didn't address the core issue of whether Obama's change is an improvement because frankly in that press release there weren't enough details for me to be able to tell if it'd be an improvement. It was just "oh this is what they want to do and they say it'd save this much money." No details about how it would potentially work to enable me to evaluate the policy. But from what I read in there, it doesn't sound promising and if it's not I'll take him to task for it.

I know we've been down this road before (at least I think we have) but my cousin went to West Point and him and his friends are active-duty right now. Some of them (a large #) are in Iraq. I thank god everyday that he's in Japan (although he'd rather be in Iraq). So when I say "Bush & co. really screwed vets healthcare up bigtime" it's not to take a partisan shot at Bush. It's because the VA, which my cousin will be depending on for healthcare at some point, is a pile of dogshit right now. A steaming turd. And I honestly don't know enough about the intricacies of the issue to know when it started. I know that by the time the first Gulf War was over it was a mess, and I know that Clinton didn't fix it. All I know about the specifics of the situation is that there was major media outrage for a short time there during Bush's last presidency (due of course to the existence of significant armed conflict) about just how bad it had gotten. That's not taking a partisan-shot. That's taking a non-partisan shot at a douchebag who deserves it (and if a Dem deserves it I'll call them a douchebag too). On this issue with me it's not about left or right. It's about supporting the soldiers.

DT: This is OT, but prior to your cousin/friends coming back to the States, you might want to get some advice from Raiders Army about how to handle the transition vis-a-vis the VA, especially if any are injured. He gave me some useful advice that was relevant for Ben. Given the way the VA works, and the potential complexity of injuries (including psychological - don't forget these), one can't be too armed with knowledge.

I seriously give Bush a ton of credit for this:

Bush refuses to criticize Obama in Canada

Bush looking good in the post season.

Dubya has honestly been very respectful of Obama in the transition and afterwards. They started the transition early and got a lot of stuff out of the way. He's clear of politics now and wants it to stay that way.

I would note that Cheney has been the exact opposite since leaving office, but he's always been a know-it-all and never avoided a shot when he had one (yeah, the jokes are plentiful in that regard).

My memory is poor, but most presidents seem to disengage from the muck after leaving. I know Clinton has been back (and one could argue that he was pulled back in, but knowing Bill...) and Truman said some not-so-nice-things about Nixon. Can't really think of many others, and that's a good thing. Slinging mud after you've been president is not very becoming.

I give Bush all the credit in the world for the way he handled the transition. By all accounts this was one of the smoothest transitions on record, and that's something considering the issues on the table. Apparently Bush told his staff, the day after the election, that Obama was going to be President now and he wanted to do everything in their power to make him able to hit the ground running.

I think history will look back on the Bush Administration and focus more on Cheney, to be honest, maybe even to the point of calling it a de facto Cheney Administration. Bush clearly opened up a number of doors for Cheney with his decisions, and then didn't realize how much he (and others) were being played by Cheney until his second term, by which time it was far too late.

This is not to say I think he was a good president. I basically think he was incompetent and a detriment to the country. But with every day it's more and more clear that most of the real active damage that was done by this Administration originated from the Office of the Vice President.

flere, I had been saying that for many years. I am somewhat neutral on Bush but he did open the door for abuse - and the Cheney Cabal (with Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al) took full advantage of it.

Wrong President at the wrong time with the absolute worst possible Vice President for him. That's my call.

We talking about the election of Gore or Bush here? :)

Gore was much less effectual than Cheney so whether positive or negative there is no question that Cheney did more than Gore.

I was referring to Gore's win in 2000 when he became president. :D

As always, lively, fun, educational, and respectful as you said in the Recession thread a few minutes ago

SI

why are you dragging partisanship into this

I'll refrain from attempting bad political humor moving forward. :D

when convenient

This little sidebar reminds me of one of my favorite Onion articles:

Supreme Court Overturns Bush v. Gore

Hadn't seen that before :)

SI

Sick people are going to be able to smoke their dope in states that allow it:

Link

A step in the right direction. That's about all we'll see this term, I'm guessing. Can't use political capital on dope, as much as it pains me to say so.

dola

sick people, or people that have doctors that will give out pot prescriptions for next to nothing :)

I am seriously thinking about emailing Obama and telling him that the presidency is for 4 years - not 100 fucking days. He and his administration need to quit acting like everything is on internet time and actually think about each actions. Instead he acts like everything needs to be "solved" RIGHT THIS FUCKING SECOND.

An email! Next thing you know you'll make a sternly worded phone call.

If the big things were to take place more locally, then I would meet face to face. But since people like you and many others prefer to give most of the power to people sitting up to 3000 miles away in their marbled towers, that's the best us little peasants can do.

I saw that. The feds will only go after people in violation of both federal and state law. Meaning they respect the rights of the states to make the decision. Meaning there is no need for a federal drug policy. What am I missing with my logic?

You're not thinking of the children!

Everything is bizzare now. Republicans are upset with Obama for decreasing federal power and giving it to the states. They are also on the same side as Code Pink when it comes to Geithner.

I think the war on drugs is going to end really soon. Not saying drugs will be legal but we won't spend the money on operations in South America and as much on the DEA. I don't rule out them legalizing pot for tax purposes if things get really desperate.

And drastically reducing drug sentences- I see that happening sooner rather than later. Housing prisoners for carrying around a little bit of pot is too damn expensive.

SI

Sadly then there will be some statistically irrelavent crime that causes the sentencing guidelines to go back to the previous out of whack ones. Like 200,000 people will get early parole and one guy will rape a 10-year old or shoot somebody selling drugs and that will explain why we need to waste the money on the other 199,999.

They have been doing that for decades. Parade a few poor families and you get $billions for the War on Poverty (I know there are more than a few but couldn't there have been smarter ways of tackling this instead?). Have a singular act of terrorism (plus a few copycats) and you get $billions for the War on Terror. Have a bad druggie committing a bad crime and you get $billions for the War on Drugs. You get some statistical evidence for man-made causes and you get $billions for War on Climate Change. Have a handful of really bad, greedy financial institutions and you get $trillions for Bailouts. You get some circumstantial evidence for WMD and you get $billions for War on Iraq.

In Congress, you get the Laws of the Bad Apple that must be applied as an expensive one-size-fits-all solution. Yet people keep encouraging this.

I don't know what you're talking about, it's like 15 blocks away. ;)

I thought everybody within 20 blocks of the White House smoked crack?

That 90% tax bill is going to surely cause some unintended problems sooner or later.

Like the fact that it's 100% unconstitutional? The whole government is now just making stuff up. It's unbelievable. That piece of paper means squat now.

Well, last night's interview proved why Mr. Obama needs a teleprompter at all times. I doubt he'll be on many talk shows going forward and he'll rarely be without his teleprompter.

I have a young relative who is mentally disabled and participates in Special Olympics. I'll say it because my nephew isn't able to say it. Fuck you Obama. Fuck you.

I can see it coming already. Obama will create a nice little PR appearance where he bowls somewhere with some kids from Special Olympics and then makes a joke noting that disabled people bowl better than him. This just in......that doesn't change what you've already said. Disable people can do anything they want to do. You fucked up.

The most obvious missing piece to that I think would be that states haven't had the right to decide much of anything in decades. That's something that exists in name only, or more accurately whenever the feds decide they aren't in the mood.

A function of his age and the reality that a significant portion of his fan base has the attention span of a fruit fly. Plus there's that whole messiah thing, which brings certain expectations of immediacy.

I thought it was a great joke. As John McCain once said, some people just need to lighten up and get a life. The way Obama looked bowling, maybe he does belong in the special olympics.

Yes, because there's no good bowlers in the Special Olympics, right? Because they're disabled in some ways, they can't bowl any better than Obama, right?

Check your ignorance at the door and actually attend a Special Olympics event. You might actually learn something about what motivated disabled people can achieve. Their effort in their endeavors even with their disabilities often dwarfs the efforts of lazy people who have no excuse for their lack of effort.

Dude needs to perhaps start acting like a president and not a celebrity. Make your choice. Leno, ESPN, signing book deals or do your f-ing job.

I can't believe we elected this guy and unfortunately, the Republicans are entirely to blame.

That's pretty stupid. He's been pretty active as a President. In fact, he's even been criticized in this thread for acting too quickly. What planet are you living on where he's not doing his job?

Being active doesn't equate with doing his job. My dog chases his tail for a half an hour. He's active, but I'm not sure he's getting much done.

Heh. Not bad.

Do you really think he's not getting anything done? Seriously? That's the argument you're going with? I mean, I could understand people not liking what he has done, but to say he's not getting anything done is ignoring reality.

But you know, I heard he ate lunch yesterday. Surely, the economy is more important than a club sandwich. Why is he eating lunch?!!

I've said that I like his move to roll back the stem cell research (mostly because I know people who could benefit from it, hence my reaction to the Special Olympics comment). But his economic policies, including the stimulus packages have been brutal at best. The economy is slowly improving, but owes little to the administration's policies in regards to that improvement.

I agree with you that the 24/7 expectation of work from the President is silly at best. All I ask is that he doesn't insult disabled Americans on national television in his spare time.

By the way, I hope the Kennedy family publicly hammers Obama for this comment about the Special Olympics. It's a travesty that their mother's achievements would be minimized by a sitting president given all that she's done for disabled individuals.

there are no quick fixes for the economy though. for all we know the administration has actually staved off the economy getting even worse.

Absolutely correct that there are no quick fixes. If anything, the events of the past week or two just prove how short-sighted it can be to hand out money without proper regulation as this administration has done. I don't have a problem with a stimulus bill when done correctly.

But they couldn't be brutal unless he was "doing something", right?


So after getting your stupid dog joke out of the way, you now agree with my original point, but quickly switch to another line of criticism. Congratulations. You're ready for the internets.

dola

Just to be clear, I'm not happy with the Special Olympics joke, either. That's really disappointing.

and the past administration did as well...for all the whining about the AIG bonuses (which are ridiculous) and total what...165 MILLION, everyone seems to have forgotten about the 350 BILLION under Paulson that's just dissapeared onto the banks balance sheets and who knows where else

:+1:

Well, if your only point truly was that he was doing something, regardless of quality, then I suppose you're correct that I agree.

Sorry about lumping two topics into your response. I'm pretty pissed off about his comment right now.

How many times do I have to state this? I was the one bitching about that stimulus bill as well on this very board. If this was a thread about Bush, I'd be stating it again. But it's not. For all the willingness to focus on Obama's presidency, there's certainly a lot of people who are more interested in saying he's better or equal to Bush every time a criticism of Obama's administration is put out there. Weren't the Democrats the ones not long ago who stated that wasn't exactly a high bar to leap?

My point is that we may disagree on the quality of what he's done, but it's silly to say he hasn't done anything, and it's silly to criticize him for filling out a bracket or appearing on a talk show as if it somehow impedes him from doing his job.

It's been a gradual decline and certainly didn't start last week.

fair enough. i just think it's intellectually disingenuous to seperate one reaction from the other for the purposes of criticism when they have been essentially the same.

The thread is about Obama. If you would like to start a thread where we list the failures of the past administration, I'd be happy to join in and provide my list. :D

I'm not sure that it's unconstitutional. What section does it violate?

Yeah, it was.

Putting aside my personal feelings, last night's comment on Leno by Obama does affect the political landscape for the upcoming election. Whether you like her or not, Obama just provided Sarah Palin with a huge board in her platform after the Special Olympics comment. She'll be able to deliver speeches similar to this one while taking a pretty heavy stab at Obama.

YouTube - Governor Palin's Address To The 2009 Special Olympics In Boise, Idaho

I doubt she'll emerge from the primaries, but Obama virtually guaranteed with his comments that we'll be hearing from Palin again at some point in time.

Yes, that is all you ever ask :rolleyes:

SI

Perhaps I'm asking too much of the current President. You may be right.

That Special Olympics joke was really a WTF moment, but really, not a big deal. Let's deal with important stuff, like Geithner being a joke of a Treasury Secretary so far ;).

What block of voters does Palin get that she wouldn't have already? Sure, she'll have a good line or two, but demographically I just can't see how she substantially increases her coalition just because of Obama's dumb comment.

Oh, I agree. I don't think it will increase her chances any. I just think it guarantees that we'll have to hear from her again at some point.

I must be a f'n psychic. From Good Morning America this morning........

that's cool though. i mean does it make it all better what he said - no it doesn't. but it's nice visibility for Special Olympics and an awesome moment for those chosen.

Ok we get it you are offended...he probably wouldn't have liked to have that sentence back...give it a rest...that horse is dead.

man the interwebs can really make a mountain out of a molehill hmm?

Our president made fun of the Special Olympics on the Tonight Show.

Just a funny sentence.

What are the odds he hosts SNL during his first term? Or maybe the Academy Awards? He could be in some funny skits.

At least he wasn't wearing really expensive clothes - we'd have another 500 posts to go.

If we're to extrapolate this decision to enforcement of other federal drug rules (which would probably be wrong to do, but anyway), a "need" for a federal drug policy would still exist for the purposes of a) speaking to cases where state drug policy is silent or doesn't apply and b) overriding state drug policy where still applicable.

In reality each Administration changes the way it enforces certain rules (not just on drug policy) and eventually has a few showdowns with states regarding differences in enforcement on various policies.

I think it's a fair thing to ask of a current President. I'll just make sure to remind you for a few days every time you ask for anything else since you said you don't.

SI

Who cares about the special olympics joke, or the mission accomplished banner, or Sarah Palin seeing Russia, or Hilary Clinton coming under sniper fire? They are stupid comments/jokes/ideas that really mean absolutely nothing. I don't care if you know someone who is disabled it doesn't change the intent of Obama's comment. He didn't say let's abort all down's syndrome babies. Get over yourself. It is discussing bs like this while allowing the government to take control of more important parts of our lives that causes the real problems. Call him out on policy. I think he has some really bad policy, but I don't think he secretly hates all mentally retarded children. What a waste of the next 10 press cycles this bullshit is going to be.

Side story: Obama and the Democrats spend another trillion dollars. Main story: Ohio mom with down's syndrome baby has had enough!!!

This was inevitable but it was still funny.

My Way News - Special Olympics bowler: I can beat the president!
ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) - The top bowler for the Special Olympics looks forward to meeting President Barack Obama in an alley.

"He bowled a 129. I bowl a 300. I could beat that score easily," Michigan's Kolan McConiughey (KO-lahn Mc-KAHNA-he) told The Associated Press in an interview Friday.

The athletic-minded president made an offhand remark Thursday on "The Tonight Show" comparing his weak bowling to "the Special Olympics or something." He quickly apologized and told the Special Olympics chairman he wants to have some of its athletes visit the White House to bowl or play basketball.

McConiughey, who is mentally disabled, is just the bowler for the job. He's bowled five perfect games since 2005.

The 35-year-old McConiughey has been bowling since he was 8 or 9. His advice for Obama? Practice every day.

He'd kick my ass too in bowling.

I'm glad that you think this comment is no big deal. Millions of Americans are smart enough to know that this kind of ignorance needs to be battled at all levels. Disabled people have enough people who use them as the butt of jokes. They don't need the President of the United States to provide an example of how to do that.

I cringed when I heard it. But I don't expect him to resign over it.

Dola --

I feel the same about race comments. People say things they shouldn't. The "first offense" if you will are teaching moments that can help others not make those same mistakes, especially public figures who ought to know better.

I am disappointed by the comment and I dont have a mentally challenged child so I wont question anyone's ire who does.

That being said I do think that some will take this as their 'shot' at him even if they've been trying to find their 'shot' for a long long time. Go for it. Im sure the President's people know it's coming.

Panerd makes a much better point in all of this eventhough Im sure we'd come to different conclusions since I think that the administrations policies have resulted in more good than bad at this point, especially in their handling of the economy (AIG bonuses aside).

I don't think Obama will mind if they come after him for the comment. It becomes a nice distraction for him from real issues.