I guess our miscommunication is on what I really have a problem with. I've been bombarded by stories and announcers declaring him to be the greatest Olympian ever and acting as if nobody else even belongs in the discussion.

ESPN.com has a writer that actually declared that "Michael Phelps saved the Olympics" - no joke.

What Phelps has done is impressive. But I, personally, was more impressed by Usain Bolt's complete destruction of the 100 meter field.

and it's still working with a 13th medal, bronze in women 100m hurdles!!! :)

FM

Sweet.

I guess we're coming at it from different directions. The whole argument in this thread started because someone actually said "who cares?" about Phelps achievement, so I think there's equally ridiculous stuff coming from the Phelps backlash bandwagon.

Fuck Cal Botterill, MikeVic and I should be getting hired as sports psychologists all over the place.

I agree with this statement.

Sweet! US Women come back incredibly and destroy Italy in the 5th set of volleyball. Medal round, baby!

And speaking of humongous comebacks, USA Softball comes into the bottom of the ninth against Japan, down a run,, and scratches a run across, and then gets a three run HR to win it and advance to the gold medal game.

LOL, typical ESPN. :D

Honestly, if anything, Phelps has probably taken a lot away from the Olympics for a lot of countries outside of the USA. He was pretty much the entire story for the first week of the games. If it hadn't been for Stephanie Rice and the time she's spent on my TV screen, I'd have gone insane by now. :)

Seriously though, the older I get, the less caught up in the Olympics I seem to be getting - Outside of the basketball, anyhow.

I don't see why the statement that Phelps saved the olympics is so bad. I honestly had little interest in the olympics coming in. There isn't any major track and field stars for the U.S. and outside of the dream team, no one else I know of. Their isn't a rival like there was before with the Soviets. It hasn't been a secret that the olympics don't have the same luster they used to and previous ones were seeing major rating dips.

It'll be interesting to see how the ratings come in for this week. No Phelps and no gymnastics. Sure I'll catch the dream team if it's on, but outside of that, I really don't see myself dedicating much time to anything that'll be on NBC this week.

Because its utterly silly. The Olympics are doing quite fine around the world. Just because some Americans may not be as interested isn't exactly a big deal overall.

Tell that to the IOC if their rights fees fall, since those provide over half their total revenue.
And for Torino & Beijing, over half of their TV revenue came from NBC.

And without Phelps, NBC's primetime numbers were down 14% on Sunday and 19% by Monday.

DING!


not often I feel that Jon hits the nail on the head but he's got this one pegged. Money drives everything, the Olympics are no exception to that and the real money is from American TV rights. If you lose the interest of the American public you lose a big chunk of money and without money they can't put on 57-gagillion swimming events and create their "second coming" of medalists like Phelps.

The ratings are down not even mostly because of Phelps, IMO.

Internet + tape delay = terrible ratings

In the information age, only live sporting events are going to get good ratings.

And Phelps didn't save the Olympics. Please. That is just plain silly. Maybe he helped the Olympics make more money, but to most of us that isn't the point. It might be the IOC's current goal, but the Olympics will be fine without him.

By the way, 200 meter results

:)

That might have been the point, of course. I am waging a counter-propoganda war. This is important stuff.

he isn't an American, why would you expect the coverage/media hype for a Jamaican to be as huge as for an American? there's always a level of homersim in the Olympics. to wag your finger at people who cheer for the hometown kid who did great at the Olympics is plain dumb. you're a communist.

+1

I find myself caring a lot less about watching the track & field events since I already know the results. I tuned in to watch a lot of the swimming live (not just Phelps).

For example, there's a very good chance I won't watch the 200m final tonight on NBC. I already know the result and I already watched video of the race thanks to the internet. Why would I sit through all the commercials and pre-event hype for less than 20 seconds of competition later tonight?

Now if the final had been live there is no way I would have missed it.

boggles my mind that NBC isn't charging for the video-streams on the website - i think that'd be a huge potential source of revenue for them -- perhaps in the future and this is just sort of a "test run" of it

It's like a crack dealer...first taste is free. Once your addicted...then come the charges.

The 4 by 100 relay should be amazing. I wonder why there is no 4x200 one. I'd think Jamaica will win, but team USA could pull the upset.

So the swimmers can have more medals than the track athletes.

Duh.

So we've had "Who cares?" about Phelps accomplishment and now we've gotten to Phelps not having a major impact on the ratings. I think we've left the realm of reality.

I never said he didn't have a major impact. I said I think the internet + tape delay is a bigger impact.

I didn't watch NBC's coverage of the 100 meter final and probably won't watch their coverage of the 200 meter final. I pretty much never miss those events and I have never missed those events if they've been televised live (except probably in 1980, but I was 2 years old about to turn 3 so I'm not sure).

As shown above there are others in the same boat. Do you think the ratings for Phelps' races would have been the same if it were tape-delayed and everyone already knew the result? Or do you think maybe NBC is well aware that the ratings would have taken a huge hit because of tape delay and that's why they negotiated with the IOC to run those races in the morning in Beijing so they could be live in U.S. primetime?

It seems like we're not talking about sports so much anymore, but U.S. Men's volleyball in the medal round, too. Good game, too.

Media Life Magazine - Beijing Games hold lead over Athens
Still, the network’s momentum has clearly cooled a bit after the huge numbers for the opening week, which featured Michael Phelps’ eight gold medal run and the bulk of the gymnastics competition.

That’s not surprising. Nearly every Summer Games sees ratings dip from the first to the second week because the second-week events tend to be less popular.

The second week has slipped an average 12.5 percent the past four Games, dating back to Barcelona, according to an analysis by SportsBusiness Journal.

The smallest dropoff, 9 percent, came in 1996, when the U.S. hosted the Olympics in Atlanta. U.S. Games tend to see higher ratings generally.

The past two Olympics have fallen an average 12 percent in their second weeks, and that’s about where NBC stands right now. Monday’s viewership was off 11 percent from the previous week, when Phelps captured his third and fourth gold medals.

If ratings stay on a similar trajectory, NBC will still finish well ahead of Athens as well as Sydney 2000, the lowest-rated primetime Olympics ever.

Here's another interesting profile about the average Olympic viewer on NBC.

Just a snippet here: The median age is 48, the largest viewing cell is women in their late 40's, but much of the increased viewership is coming from men this year, up 18% over Athens (women up 9%).

Did anyone catch that comment during women's gymnastics the other night about how Michael Phelps and Alicia Sacramone had the biggest amount of hits on the Olympics site? The announcer was impressed about Alicia being up there, and I was chortling at home. I know I looked her up only because someone on this thread posted a pic iof how hot she was. NBC discovers internet pr0n!!

May/Walsh win the Gold!

Stop the idiot with the mic at the water cube interviewing the crying girl.

SI

Andrea Kremer is really terrible at the empathy thing.

Sad decision by the Olympic games organization, not allowing the Spanish competitors to wear a black lace in the memory of the 153 dead passengers that died yesterday in a terrible plane crash in Spain.

The Spanish Olympic delegation asked the Chinese organization to allow Spanish competitors to wear that black lace today, and to have the Spanish flag half lowered in memory of yesterday's victims but the Chinese didn't approve it saying that they don't allow those kind of public acts not related to the Olympic games.

What a bunch of insensible hardheads, but what else could you expect from a country dictators like the ones governing in China? Fun how the Olympic games should support civil rights and freedom and all countries including mine are sucking Chinese asses because their economic power and business opportunities in their huge market :/

I haven't read back about the Phelps-Bolt-saved the Olympics-greatest olympian ever discovered saga, but I wanted to share this, so take it however it applies:

On Saturday night, I was in a high class restaurant in Manhattan named Keen's Chophouse (expensive as hell, I got the cheapest thing and damned to heck if I care what the waiter thought), which is the last place I would expect too many people to care about sports, much less the Olympics.

As my party and I were finished with our meals, we wandered over to Keen's adjoining bar to wait while some others went to the bathroom. Well, Phelps was about to race for his eighth gold (the relay) live. The bar was packed, mostly with guys like you or I that could give a rat's ass about the Olympics. And every eye was riveted to the TV. No sound was being made at all as this race started.

Once it did, everyone started yelling support at the screen. The bartenders were yelling at the screen. Everyone was pointing. No one was ordering a drink or looking anywhere but at Phelps and his teammates trying to get that gold. Once they did, the place just exploded. Everyone was giddy with happiness over Phelps getting his eighth gold. It was pretty overwhelming, I have to admit.

Any time you see that sorta passion from a large group of people who don't normally care about the Olympics, that's really something. Phelps has definitely had an impact (at least on Americans).

Elmo: I was in the room here one day... watchin' the Mexican channel on TV. I don't know nothin' about Pele. I'm watchin' what this guy can do with a ball and his feet. Next thing I know, he jumps in the air and flips into a somersault and kicks the ball in - upside down and backwards... the goddamn goalie never knew what the fuck hit him. Pele gets excited and he rips off his jersey and starts running around the stadium waving it around his head. Everybody's screaming in Spanish. I'm here, sitting alone in my room, and I start crying.
[pause]
That's right, I start crying. Because another human being, a species that I happen to belong to, could kick a ball, and lift himself, and the rest of us sad-assed human beings, up to a better place to be, if only for a minute... let me tell ya, kid - it was pretty goddamned glorious. It ain't the six minutes... it's what happens in that six minutes.

I have a feeling the Elmo who said that wasn't the Elmo I initially thought.

Why would they even bother to ask permission? What are they gonna do, not let the Spanish compete?

I don't understand why the Chinese organization has any say, shouldn't the IOC make the ruling?

For what i'm reading, the IOC made the ruling after the BOCOG (Chinese Olympic games organization) asked them to rule against it, as Chinese government doesn't allow public showing of symbols related to tragedies. The IOC agreed to disaalow it to not to offend the Chineses.

Before Spain, USA asked also for it when a Voley coach parent was killed early in Pekin at the start of the games, it was denied too.

Spanish sportment are ignoring it and wearing the black lace, for example the Spanish sailing gold medal winners today were wearing it when receiving the medal. I doubt the COI will have the nuts to disqualify them for something like that.

You are awesome.

Wow, just watched the end of the Norway-South Korea Women's Handball semifinals. Norway was up three with a minute to play (the clock in handball is a running clock). Norway gets a two minute penalty, and Korea starts a comeback after a steal and a missed Norway shot.

Korea actually ties the game at 28 with :06 to play. Norway's goalie has to fish the ball out of the net, get it to a teammate at half court... (when a player has the ball at mid court, the play can begin) the player at halfcourt gets it to a fast teammate who gets a shot off with :01 to play.. and it beats the goalie, sending Norway to the Gold medal Game, 29-28!

Team handball is so fun to play.

So she is 14....

FOXNews.com - Report: Hacker Uncovers Proof Chinese Gymnast Is Underage - 2008 Summer Olympics

Naughty, naughty, China. There's a black eye for you.

What are the odds anything actually happens?

Very slim to none. The IOC appears quite willing to bend themselves not only over but into a pretzel to keep the Chinese happy.

seriously - that's fucking disgraceful if nothing happens, the IOC can go fuck themselves - she ought to be stripped and the chinese team golds ought to be stripped too

Yeah, like no one expected that?

didn't expect proof to come out this soon

I was refering to the IOC and China, in general. It was a disgrace that they got the Olympics in the first place.

(cue Chinese dragons playing the erhu and crying rainbow tears, as seen in The Simpsons go to China (episode 'Goo Goo Gai Pan'))

DT.. I think we just found proof that the girl is 14, and you want her to be stripped? I think there's a guy from Dateline NBC who wants you to sit in that chair over there....

(Grin, Duck, and RUN!)

haha

Well played Sir!

I'm waiting to see what happens AFTER everyone is safely outside the borders...

It's really not a valid comparison, and Phelps' events aren't as diverse as you're making them out to be.

If track and field added the 50m sprint, and also added the 50m, 100m, 200m and 400m backwards sprint, and the 50m, 100m, 200m and 400m sideways/crossover sprint, then you could probably have an apples to apples type of comparison as to who was the most dominant performer in their respective sport.

Or after all the checks have finally cleared

More what I meant were the number of races he swam in a relatively short time. Maybe if Bolt added, say, the 110m hurdles or something.

However, his performance in the 200m said a lot. Agreed that it's hard to compare them, but they've both done something pretty amazing.

Not a good night for the relay teams :(

SI

this just in from the IOC - they're investigating

ESPN - Report: IOC investigating whether He is old enough to compete - Olympics

Hopefully they will have this completed by the time the closing ceremonies are done.....in London....in 2012.

At least one of the Chinese gymnasts probably won't be old enough to compete in London either.

Where is Victor Conte when you need him?

What about hurdling? Thats just running and jumping a little. Steeplechase? I mean come on, sure there are probably too many medals available in swimming all things considered. But its ridiculous how some of us degrade the difficulty of excelling in the different strokes in swimming. The whole backwards/sideways running comparison is overdone and sophomoric.

Probably the one thing I can agree with the IOC on. They'll go on my shitlist when the declare that this Olympics was the greatest ever.

In Bolt's defense, once the other competitors were done running, he was already back in Jamaica. :)

Fun volleyball finals on now :)

SI

I disagree.

The freestyle, butterfly, breaststroke and backstroke are different swimming motions, but they're still swimming. The distance then becomes the only delineator.

Jumping and hurdling incorporate running, but they require separate, non-running skills. The steeplechase is a distance running event which relies on slow twitch muscular development, compared to fast twitch for the sprinters. So, if you want to compare a track and field sprinter to a short distance swimmer, the backwards/sideways running comparison is certainly valid.

Except running backwards and sideways is not even close to an efficient manner of traveling on the ground. The example is just used to belittle athletic endeavors people have little respect for. We have different strokes because there are going to be different ways to swim from point A to point B. Likewise we have different track events because there are different ways to travel quickly on feet from point A to point B.

Hurdling and sprinting are different track motions but its still running on a track. Sounds pretty stupid and disrespectful either way if you ask me. But I guess people have an easier time disrespecting swimming than track and field events.

And swimming backwards, or butterfly, or breastsroke is an efficient, fast manner of traveling through water? :confused:

Hurdling incorporates running, but it requires a completely different skill set. I suppose if there was a swimming event where the competitors had to hurl themselves over buoys at regular intervals, you would have a valid comparison.

Running backwards is actually a very valid comparison in comparing the backstroke to the freestyle in swimming.

While freestyle is usually a faster competitive stroke than butterfly, its not by much. (Looking it up just now its only a difference of a second per 50m for record holders.) I've known swimmers that could butterfly faster than freestyle, although that seems pretty rare.

If I am swimming a very long distance, say across a lake, (as if that happens that often!) I usually breaststroke it. Easier to conserve energy with that stroke, IMO.

I'd think bolt would be good on the 110s due to his speed and height. But I can't really recall anyone doing both.

We'll see what happens for London. If he decides to add the 400 and wins that too along with the other sprints I'd think that would seal his legendary status.

+1

And I really hate tape delayed Olympics. At least England isn't more than 5 hours ahead. And they don't torture and kill political prisoners

In a way, that's worse, though. It actually hasn't been as bad this year because the time difference is so large that they've been able to carry a decent amount of stuff live in prime time by having major events take place in the morning in Beijing. In London, I don't see how anything could be carried live in prime time in the U.S.

Good, then those swimmers can swim a butterfly in a swimming race and you can swim a breaststroke in a long distance swimming race.

Usain Bolt won gold medals and broke world records in the only two running events 200 meters and under (distance traveled by individual competitors). He has a shot at one more in the 4x100 relay. No other world records have been broken in running events at these Olympics.

Michael Phelps won 8 gold medals and broke 7 world records out of 13 swimming events 200 meters and under. 19 other world records were broken in swimming events at these Olympics. In several races, every medalist broke the previous world record.

It amazes me that people still want to piss on Phelps accomplishment. Who cares how many swimming events there are? It's not like Phelps travelled back in time and decreed that there be more swimming events than running events. All he did was come in and perform better than everyone else in the history of his sport.

To put this in some more perspective, Bolt won the 200m by the largest margin in Olympic history, and he is the first man to hold the 100m and 200m world records simultaneously since 1979.

USA wins a thriller in the Men's Volleyball semifinal. They won the first two matches. Russia was pushed to the brink in the 3rd set but won 27-25. Then they won the 4th set. The 5th set (playing to 15), was back and forth the whole way. It was tied 13-13. USA wins the last two points to go to the Gold Medal game.

Looks like an American will be the "Greatest Athlete in the World".

Bryan Clay of the US owns a 316 point lead with two events to go, and if he does fairly well in the last two events, he has a chance to set the decathalon world record.

Table Tennis on USA :D

SI

Word. Seems to me more evidence of the "Everything Sucks" era than anything else. It doesn't in any way diminish the accomplishment of either Phelps or Bolt to marvel at both of their achievements (or all eight of Phelps' and both of Bolt's).

[tongueincheek] Besides, Phelps is an American -- what happened to all the "We're number one!" chest-beaters in the face of the Jamaican invasion? [/tic]

Should be interesting to see how much the bitch Manu tries to flop vs team USA. I hope they pound the snot out of the Argentinians.

Is that game happening now? Can you update for those of us that can't follow?

USA up 17 with 8 mins to go in the 2nd.

awesome

Kryszqweiski let argentina back into the game, and it's likely to be USA up by 6 or 8 at the half. Scola has been a beast and they can't figure out how to counter the run.

I think Bron and Wade are both in foul trouble.

Manu is in the locker room with a strained vagina.

Bolt makes it a 3 fer and saves the olympics.

US up 9 at half.

usain bolt so fast, jamaica gonna just ride him down the bobsled track in 2 years. cool runnings 2

basketball update plz

USA wins by like 20. Not really a good game for either side.

That'd be sweet.

dat boy run good

Wah, wah, wah. Nobody is pissing on Phelps' accomplishments. I am pissing on the overblown media hype by others.

You are correct that he dominated his sport more than anyone else ever has.

Usain Bolt did the same thing.

I am not going to have any reason to bitch if ESPN and others continue to report accurately like in the Bolt story on the ESPN front page right now.

For whatever it is worth, I work from home so since the Olympics have started I've had MSNBC on all day with whatever they happen to be covering at the time. Earlier in the Olympics all of their promos were about Phelps and is attempt to set history. Since swimming has been mostly over, those haven't been on and instead they have been replaced with things such as Volleyball, and even today alot of Bolt hype (I guess they are planning on airing one of his races in prime time tonight).

I don't think NBC is overhyping Phelps because he is their relative or anything.. I think they are just overhyping any thing that they can to try to increase ratings, including now overhyping Bolt beyond all belief.

I originally had been leaning on the side of "What Phelps did was amazing, but I'm tired of all of the hype"... now I'm leaning to the side of "The only people I've heard talk about Phelps the past 2 days are the people complaining about Phelps being talked about" :)

Soccer final on CNBC now - Argentina/Nigeria 0-0 at halftime. They're actually having water breaks midway through the halves because it's so hot out, and the heat is killing the Argentinians.