I'm more then willing to give Alan the benifit of the doubt

Crazy, I leave for a few hours and 3 more pages to go over.

17 pages for day frakin' 1???

The best games all seem to have active D1 discussions, for whatever reason. This game has gotten off to a very promising start.

DT didn't try to come out and get into shit. DT tried to place a vote on lathum and post a reason and then shuddup but people kept smacking him around. credit to the wolves for that.

and i guess we know alan's the duke

excellent point.

You are the Matt Holiday of Werewolf.

Ahh so you're the Duke Alan and you can't duke yourself, thus you prevented the lynch?

neh - guess i shouldn't have said anything given what was going down

*shrugs*

not a fan of this at all.

we needed this shit cleared up.

Sigh. All that for no lynch.

Blah.

Yep.

Let's do it all over again tomorrow!

No way to know that in advance.

I am the duke. My role is a bit different though than standard Duke roles.. so you might find some differences as the game goes on. I'm not going into the full details of my abilities or powers or such at this point. Needless to say though no one ever fake claims as the duke.. if I was doing so, the real duke could just duke me...

So there you have it. I'm the Duke.

I'll give my thoughts a bit more after night phase.. but I didn't really distrust DT and Lathum as much as just wanted to keep things close to see how people commmitted.. I assumed either they were both villagers and the wolves would just play it cool, or a wolf in the mix and we might see wolves actually moving around..

If anyone I would have to say my worst feeling right now is about Barkeep.. but that might change after night phase... we'll see.

Wow...very intriguing.

Ok, we'll lynch you tommorrow if thats what you want. I was under the impression that you didn't want that today.

my wifes away and I'm on break.


I've got nothing but time!

- Ack!! GlacckkkK!!!! -

lol.

Not even remotely surprised by this.


I scanned Telle, she came up good

Sigh. Yet another early exit.

This is getting annoying.

wow, 17 pages and all we gained was Alan at the center of the COT.

ill be back on when i get home tonight

Well.. night phase is over. I actually think the wolves did me a favor by killing Kwhit as I didn't necessarily suspect him but I wasn't sure how far I wanted to trust his ideas on how the draft went. Now we know at least that his thoughts were good intentioned, although that doesn't necessarily make them entirely correct.

I'm also curious if any of the seers did decide to scan me yesterday (as I offered myself up for that if they wanted to try to determine if they were the fake seer).. I still kind of feel that would have been a waste of a scan, and also not sure we want the results of that revealed either.. At some point though I think the issue of if Lathum was lying or not will take care of itself.. either the wolves will kill him, or he'll give us alot of scans (or two real seers will reveal at some point)..

So I see no reason to push Lathum today, and I am concerned about pushing to kill DT today as doing so might out the real bodyguard if he is really a wolf (if he isn't a wolf then killing him would be even worse obviously)....

So I really don't want to rehash day 1 at all.. I'm looking at voting Barkeep right now, but going to hold off on that for a while. I'd like to go back through posts to see if my distrust of him is based more on where I felt he was misleading everyone to start the game that got cleared up or not.

I deduced this on day 1:

So I'm curious why you didn't reveal a bit earlier so that DaddyTorgo wouldn't have to reveal as the bodyguard??

I mean you're obviously the duke, but wouldn't the better play for the village be for DaddyTorgo to not have to officially reveal?

AND ME DEAD!!!!!

DON'T FORGET THAT!!!!!

Les Sigh....

Well, I don't have any knowledge if DT and/or Lathum were telling the truth, lying, or whatever. What I wanted to accomplish was for us to have a voting history for the day either way, so my commenting too heavily in this regards would have negated that. I kind of dropped a hint to DT to not reveal a few hours ago, but I got pressed by a few other people about it and had to give some kind of response to try to not tip my hand too much. I obviously had a few ways to go with this, but I wasn't going to single handedly be responsible for killing off a bodyguard or a seer without knowing for sure.

I also think next time this comes up, I likely will make the same play again in order to keep the wolves on their toes.

This way one of the the following three things have now happened:

1) Lathum or DT is a wolf, and we have a voting history on who may or may not have tried to either save them or jump in once the vote looked likely a done deal.

2) Neither are a wolf, in which our voting history for today is pointless but even moreso I'm glad neither are dead.

3) Both are a wolf, and well the wolves got lucky I guess today by my play.

Like I said though, right now I feel we should go a completely different direction with today's vote. Not that I believe Lathum and/or DT, but in both cases they will have a way of working themselves out at some point this game if they are lying.

I'll elaborate a bit more on my thoughts here.. but really the disagreement or agreement with my action at this point probably is best left to end game discussions. The only reason for such talk here seems more likely as an attempt to distract from the real discussion here today.

I'll take whatever heat anyone wants to give me at the end of the game once you know fully what my role entails.. for now it just seems pointless :)

I know - I've been training a new guy in my group at work and it's hard to refresh and stay caught up.

Easy now that no one is talking though!

I think everyone is quietly cursing me under their breath right now or something.

Let's try to be productive with how we take the information from day 1.. I would like to hear people's thoughts on the various possible scenerios...

1) If both DT and Lathum were villagers and being honest with their reveals.. what action would a wolf take? Would they have committed strongly anywhere (to try to kill off a possible seer or possible BG while it looked like they could have a realistic chance), or would they have blended in somewhere? If either of these scenerios, who do you target from the day 1 votes to possibly have been the wolves doing such?

2) If DT is a wolf, who do you think moved to try to either save him, or jump on the pile once it looked like he was dead?

3) If Lathum is a wolf, who do you think moved to try to save him or push people in a different direction?

I think going after Lathum and DT today would be a mistake.. so lets look at who might be the best targets for today instead.

I like the move, Alan. And that helps explain a lot of your play on Day 1, which is also good!

Telle's vote really stood out to me. post 650

When she voted it was 6-5 in favor of me, her vote made it 7-5, forcing 3 people to swing.

1) I think a wolf would try to set it up as villager-villager. I'm looking at GE for practically insisting that people get in on one of DT or Lathum.

What type of information do we really gain from KWhit's kill? He led the charge against Lathum. But is a wolf team with Lathum on it really stupid enough to kill KWhit? What is the wolf reasoning here for killing him?

I will point out that in post 204, KWhit originally cast his vote for Mrs. Schmidty. I think this is a direction we need to explore.

I also feel good about Mrs Schmidty and Saldana since they voted for DT late.

I think Kwhit's kill was either 1) Setup or 2) a veteran who was providing alot of analysis (right or wrong) that likely wasn't guarded.

I'm not reading much more into kwhit's death than that right now.

My insistence was because of the rules of the game. If we only vote for two people, we can learn information from hopefully the spy. Say we would have killed DT. The spy could have followed Lathum and either cleared him or pin him as a wolf. If our votes are spread out, we can't get that info with 100% confidence.

If you are a wolf, you want someone to vote for you. Then you can make a kill, assuming you are not the cunning wolf.

Cronin, do any of those votes count? I am thinking not since there was no lynch.

I completely disagree.

Having 2 candidates narrowed down on day 1 helps alot later in the game. If the vote is spread out on 5-6 people it makes voting patterns useless.

this comment plus your late vote on me has me thinking about you.

I asked him previously. He told me they do count as far as wolf targets go.

KWhit getting killed was an attempt to set me up. Plain and simple.

Those votes count.

And what are you thinking?

that you have nefarious intentions

One thing I noticed was that Pass finally moved his throwaway vote to vote for you right after DaddyToga revealed as the bodyguard.

My guess is that was a better of two evils for the village (assuming both of your reveals are truthful) since you were the next closest lynch target.

Not only that, I pushed for a tie. Lathum, if you think I have nefarious intentions, you're looking at my vote and not what I've said about it.

FWIW I don't believe DT's reveal

Does anyone recall off the top of their heads if BK was part of the "Poli would never pick Lathum as seer" line of thinking??? I'm going to go look through his posts to see if I can find something, but something he said a page or so ago stuck out to me...

True, you encouraged the village to vote for a tie (including the masons moving if necessary) in order to achieve a no lynch.

Any reason other than the fact that he voted for you?

Still? Even though it sounds like it might not be you vs. him on Day 2?

What if there is no counter any time soon?

which means he could have been trying to save DT

Since those votes counted, Lathum or DT, if one was a wolf would now be able to kill any of the players who voted for them right?

Right, but the cunning wolf could kill anyone.

these are the reasons.

day 2 votes have no bearing. I just don't believe him

I can't believe you would use all those reasons, when you were so much against them when directed at you.

I personally don't know if I buy both or either of the reveals either.. but I've already said why I don't think we worry about Lathum today.. and I feel the same way about DT.. any movement to get rid of him I fear would put the real bodyguard at risk (if DT is not the bodyguard).. It just feels like a high risk, low reward play for either day 1 or day 2 to push for a lynch.

As the numbers get a little smaller, we can worry about that type of thing.. (ie: the wolves end up killing the real bodyguard accidentally, or 2 seers show up, or whatever. Plus our seers have the ability to scan DT and/or Lathum if they doubt them as well.. We have alot of options available for us that don't involve accidentally killing off our bodyguard or seer.

that makes no sense...

I didn't reveal late

Totally agree with you there... I am thinking vanilla villager unless Poli forced Hoops to take him as his final pick.

This is hilarious.

Or the false seer.

You had a problem with people questioning the timing of your reveal. Like I said before deadline Day 1, if I had to guess, I'd say you're probably telling the truth, but I think your refusal to believe a reveal with no counter -- where there is only one of that role -- is distracting the village.

OK...look at what LSG just quoted from BK in her post (#860), and then look at post #757...in this post BK is basically saying that Poli hasn't played a lot and that he might just have picked people he knows...he was saying this in response to Lathum saying he didn't think that Poli would have picked DT as the BG (are we all confused now???)

Just seems like BK is talking out of both sides of his mouth here...

that was a terrible hint.

You are supposed to be on my side LSG...girl power and all that! :(

Yes, I had a blonde moment, but it turned out that DT had gotten me confused with you so it all actually turned out in a weird confusing mix-upy kind of way ;)

I hate when people vote for themselves... is this real?

I like games where the rules say you vote for yourself, you are disqualified.

You really don't understand what I was doing there? Pretty suspicious.

How am I speaking out of both sides of my mouth? Poli knows Lathum and DT. Because Poli knows Lathum I don't see Poli making Lathum the actual seer. Period. I do see Poli making someone, whose play he's familiar with, the seer.

I am not a vanilla villager.

I may be the fake seer but I would never fake reveal as seer if I was just a villager. I would take the bullet

At this point, no one can be clear other than yourself (assuming you are a villager) and Alan. If Lahtum is the fake seer, then we can not clear Telle since he may have got a bad reading. There is just not a lot of information available right now.

okay uhm this really pisses me off for some reason. If you are the duke you dont no lynch! 9 of your fellow players think DT is bullshitting about his reveal, and you basically go behind our backs and say our votes dont matter because YOU think he is telling the truth. And now you are going to get killed and we lose a very valuable role.

I disagree with you. I think there's plenty of reason to believe that Lathum and DT are both telling the truth.

I have a feeling that LSG has no idea what she is talking about. I'll blame it on her just not catching up yet on the thread rather than her either being a wolf or her trying to assume she knows everything about other people's roles :)

What the HELL is this?? If the wolves honestly believed you were a seer instead of bs'ing you would be dead!! Now you are worthless to us. And why on earth would you scan Telle? Did she have ANY heat on her at all?

Do we know if the fake seer gets the same scan result every time, or if they get the opposite of what it true? I've seen both mechanics used in games but don't see where it was specified in this game...

I think this at least gives the other "seer type" person a starting/reference point to compair their scan with and see who accurate they are and at least determine if they are the real seer or Lathum is.

I believe Cronin said only he, Poli, and hoops know the answer to that.

oops...probally should have quoted LSG on that not Oli

How do you know DT and Lathum are villagers? Both or either? A wolf would know that....

And no offense to GE... but no way Hoops would pick him.

It looks like I missed much ado about nothing today. Though I mention a no lynch as a good thing, it's only a good thing if it's vote history that makes it a no lynch, not ths way. We have a little vote history but not really enough to tell us. The best scenerio would have been 3 people targetted to see how the votes were being tossed about.

I guess this means that alan t is forced into our CoT (and a post mortem KWhit ;) ).

We may want to look at Lathum and who came to his rescue as this played out. I have just skimmed over the pages so I don't know wht I am missing with DT's posts but I don't understand the big run on him. This tells me that DT is good and it's about 50/50 on Lathum. He's either good and the wolves wanted it to look like there was an attempt to save him, or that was a legitimate attempt to save him.


With that said, DT is close to CoT and we may want to look into whomever spear headed the rush against him.

LSG does bring up a good point...

Lathum, why did you scan Telle instead of DT? Actually, why did you scan Telle at all?

Yes alan, because after last game we all got to see what a great wolf I am! We all know Hoops was quick to grab me for his wolf team.

You and LSG (and a few others) are missing the point that it is a 24 hour clock. Lathum's order had to be put in pre-lynch thus he assumed that DT was dead via the lynch (If Lathum is really a seer).. so why would he scan DT?

I'm pretty sure I said I *think* it's villager-villager, not that I know -- actually, I *know* I said that -- it's in the post of mine that you quoted. Why is everyone throwing so much shit around in this game?

you need to try decaf.

1. There is a very good chance the BG would protect me thinking the wolves may go after me.

2. The wolves probably think I am the fake seer, why kill me when I am drawing so much heat when they can take a shot at another roll and set me up at the same time.

3. I scanned Telle because I didn't like her vote, it looked like she was trying to hammer home the nail in my coffin. I didn't scan DT because I though he may have been a night kill target.

I'm not really getting suspicion from your actions here (at least any more suspicion than I may or may not previously have had about you)... but instead of being so attacking or accusatory, you could actually ask about things that you don't fully understand why I did something. I may not answer or I may... I still don't understand how anyone would miss what I was trying to acomplish there though.

Hi.

I honestly dont understand how what Alant did helps us? How do we get a good vote history when we have no dead person?

I am so glad I am not the only one who feels this way.

The votes are still there. :confused:

You still have the vote history.. Just like last game where we were wolves together, they didn't actually find a place to use the vote history until like day 5 or 6, but when they finally got to that point they looked back on day 1 and 2 and it helped narrow down Chief as a wolf.

Same thing can happen here.. if we get to day 7 and find that both DT and Lathum were villagers, we have the vote history from today.. if we get to day 7 and find that DT was lying, we have the vote history there, or same if we find Lathum was lying.

No one else knew it would be a no lynch, so people still would have tried to save folks if there was a point to do so. This way we possibly saved the bodyguard and/or seer, without losing the vote history by people moving votes around to force a no lynch.

Bleh.. like I already said.. some people like my move, some don't.. .either way it can't be undone.. telling me how dumb I am doesn't really help us lynch a wolf today.

Save the commentary for my idiocy for after the game is over please so I know you honestly feel I am an idiot and so I don't just assume you are a wolf because of your opinion on it. :)

Much more productive to try to figure out where we want to go with the vote today then that rehashing of something that can't and won't be undone.

I see they aer there... but I really dont know what they show us? I see that we have four players or so that had 'throw away' votes... basically meaning they voted for somebody who had no heat on them. but what do the votes on lathum or daddy show us when we have no idea if they are wolves or not?

And I really hated Chief's vote on saldana so late. I might vote for him before I go to bed tonight if nothing comes up

++ ++ ++

that was a productive post. I am glad these count now.

I'm still unsure what to make of the Lathum/DaddyTorgo situation. I don't like the fact that if either is a non cunning wolf that the wolf team now has good list of people to kill without using their cunning wolf.

FWIW Alan I think you are an idot, but like the move ;) :D

At least that is one step better than my ex-wife!

On that note, time to grill up dinner. back some point! :)

Should we look at the players who only got 1 vote?

Mrs. Schmidty
EagleFan
Saldana

Those who voted for them:

EagleFan
Chief Rum
Schmidty

I would bet a pretty penny that of those 5 players, at least one is a wolf.