The only issue I have with that is that I suspect (don't know for sure) that the wealth he has accumulated is lost from the game. If he is a good guy, then we are losing one of the wealthiest among us. And there would be fewer people who could prevent the Tarqs from winning their first choice of services.

It isn't just voting for an UTR - there is more to consider than that.

Is that enough to sway my vote to innocent? Not necessarily, but I'm giving him the benefit of a long leash. I've also got the luxury of knowing I'll be around during the afternoon/evening to make my vote. I understand that isn't an option for some of us.

meaning I don;t know how his name was romanized. Was is Bulletus Spongueus? Bullus Etus? No idea, so wheever his "us"'s are supposed to be in his name.

KWhit, you sued or were sued seven times from Day One suits. You won most of them. Did you learnm anything at all from that that wasn't posted in this thread? Just curious if that was addressed, as our original point with the lawsuits was to reveal the treasonous information that lsoing lawsuits might reveal.

Oh! That went completely over my head.

st. cronin probably has a hard and fast number foir all of our wealths, but I doubt it matters in the long run except as it relates to other wealth levels. If we take down bullet, he will be replaced by someone else, it seems, and we will still have the wealthy and the moderately wealthy and the not wealthy and so forth.

I'm getting sued twice today. I'd like to sue as well, because a brotha needs cash, yo. Howveer, I don;t want to tie up the court system and today has seen a rash of multiple suers. So, I'll eschew the suits and hope that I win the ones against me, as opposed to plugging up the court of the land.

No. I learned nothing. The only information I received about the lawsuits at all is what was posted in this thread. No details about how much money I won in PM or any gut feel I had about any of the people I sued - nothing.

Bullseye

While you're at, clarify the lawyer thing. k, thnx.

BTW,m I haven't checked yet, but was there a change in the wealth lists from the start of the game to the start of Day Two? I would imagine no, since lawsuits weren't heard until the end of Day Two. But I think a list was reposted by st. cronin. I will have to check this out. If there were changes, then that would indicate soemthing did happen on Day One to affect it.

I don't think we have reached the point where we need to be concerned about clogging up the courts. When we do, I will be the first to retract my suits if they are keeping more relevant suits from reaching the docket.

Question for st. cronin: if we reach the lawsuit max, and have suits left over the limit, do they get held over to lead off the next day's docket? Or do they essentially "disappear" , meaning they have to be made again? And will you provide a list of the lawsuits that were submitted, but not put on the next day's docket (but held over for future days)?

It might be relevant, as if we need to drop some lawsuits, we will need to know what lawsuits have been filed that were beyond the day's max lawsuit number (and thus clogging up the next day'sdocket before it even starts).

This is complete BS. Anyone can see in post #383, there was only one quote, and it was very clear what I was asking. ie:





That is all fine and good, except you answered it, with completely unrelated comments and then dropped it when I responded. So you saw the conversation, you replied to it, you just avoided it for who knows what reason.



Once again, you are completely wrong, but instead of swearing, using inappropriate comments at me, I will keep it civil and clean. I have not resorted to personal attacks like you have now twice. For the life of me I have no idea why you avoided responding to what appeared to me as a joke comment, and then started becoming so uncivil about it. I guess this is one of those things I'll really be interested in post game in understanding once I know what side you are really on, because until now I had always thought you were against such type of behavior in these games that you are now showing.

Thanks for the clarification, Cronin.

Restating - if Bullet is hurled from the cliff and revealed as a Roman, then we have lost his high standing on the financial food chain. Which would impact how the Tarqs could bid for services - if they have no one who is wealthier than them they get to pick their service which seems likely to be unfavorable for Rome.

I'm the Crew is another among the wealthy here. He is another "UTR" guy. For better or worse, this should be factoring into people's thinking about how to deal with UTR players this game.

UTR is obviously not my playing style. It isn't a style I enjoy playing with/against all that much, but I'm going to try and reach out to these guys a little harder than usual this game because of the wealth ramifications.

Bullet - how hard would it be to actually give information about your actions on Day 1 (what did you bid on? what does it do?) and suggest that you are going to try and help on Day 3?

From a purely random standpoint, we are 20-25% likely (assumes 5-6 starting) to hit a Tarq here. I know the reasons that Bullet was arrested. I know that we should have had two people offering up candidates. But I still am not wild about risking a person who could be an asset to us with these odds.

Also, I hate that I'm having to argue more for a person than they are arguing for themselves.

What good is having a wealthy good guy in this case if he doesn't use his wealth to help the good? If it stays there dormant, is it really much better than not being there at all?

Question for Coffee Warlord: when you hired Swaggs, was that action submitted Day One or Day Two? If you submitted it Day One, that would suppose you had an inkling you would be arrested. I actually think Alan did a good job of not really revealing who he was going after, so did you have an idea?

If you didn't and made no effort to hire Swaggs on Day One, but did it on Day Two to protect yourself, that would be the first evidence we have that a purchased service could be used on the same day ion which it was purchased. Swaggs was used by Coffee Warlord in his defense at the end of Day Two.

The reason I think that is important is because I am trying to get a handle on how the lawyers may affect the lawsuits. Coffee Warlord had Swaggs' use on Day Two (and likely for Day One lawsuits heard at the end of Day Two). Dodgerchick also claims to have hired ardent for that day. Has anyone else claimed to hire lawyers that day? If not, we can probably figure they are telling the truth about that (st. cronin already pretty much confirmed CW's use actually). No opinion given on if what they said beyond that is the truth (the investigating thing, etc.).

BTW, I attempteds to purchase horse services on both Days One and Two. Day One I was outbid fo Lexus Postus. Day Two I was one of the people who assumed it was the dealers and submitted a stupid Day Two bid with a Day One dealer's name. Since I left for the day, I was unable to change it. st. cronin said he would select one at random for me, and I did not get a PM, so I am guessing I lost (not a shock, I am much closer to the level of the "people" then I am the wealthy).

What am I missing with the pile on to bullet?

Clear as mud, cronin. Now about the lawyer thing...

Alan beat me to the point I was going to make. If he's not going to use his cash, then it doesn't really matter. If he's not going to fight to save himself, then it doesn't matter. I'm willing to spare him, but he has to show that he'll be of use to the people of Rome.

Exactly. If bullet and ITC are wealthya nd inactive, that could be bunching some of us people who could be wealthier on a lesser level, and thus more likely to be beta out for services by simialrly-leveled wolves. While there is a chance they will be repalced by wolves when they die, the percentages say it is more likely we will gain an active wealthy person on the side of good.

I was of the impression that we are all ranked relatively behind the scenes, even within the classes, but I could be be wrong about this.

correct

Awesome. That is exactly what I hoped would be the case. Thanks for the response, sir.

Will you announce that pipeline as well, or will we have to piece that together ourselves? I am fine either way, but I wanted to know if we needed to be prepared to do that work if you weren't providing a pipeline list of over the limit suits at deadline.

I'm happy to publish a list of suits that are still active but not scheduled to be heard.

Bingo. If you're not involved, you're likely not bidding on services or things that can help us. Ergo, your value to the senate drops.

Well, if he is innocent and he has cash then we can make the Tarqs do their own work disposing of him.

Look, I have no idea if he is "good" or "evil". What I'm trying to suggest is that people give this a little more consideration than "he is quiet" or "he is playing his usual game". The structure of the game puts us in a position where I think it is in our best interest to do so.

I would put forth the same argument for a couple of other people who may find themselves in the same position, but Bullet is the one who is in this position today.

By the end of the day I might be sick enough of doing this that I'll vote for him out of spite. But for now I'm trying to take what I consider a rational approach.

Could you.. I think Rumus sued me.. just making sure.

Well I obviously haven't voted for him yet, but its easy to expect unless I hear a good reason not to, that I likely will vote for him. For most of your arguements, we can use for anyone on almost any day 2 of almost any ww game. We don't know if anyone who ever is quiet is good or bad. We don't know if they have an important role, we don't know anything about him... because... he's not been active :)

I understand your point, and as one who is usually quiet early in games I do not always get/act upon the UTR theory. However, there are a ton of people here, and we have had a meta history lately of quiet wolves being successful. So if it was a smaller game I'd be on your side on this point, but not where there are so many players.

I haven't actually compiled any votes or suits yet. Let me see if I can while I have time - class starts in about 30 minutes.

That would be helpful, yes. But it doesn't have to be right now (unless you want to). I'm more concerned with hwo it will look just after deadline, wehn some suits have been successfully entered into the docket (I gather you knew what I meant, but clarifying for others--we don't need our GM to constantly be submitting lawsuit lists throughout the day upon request ;) ).

I'd rather keep up the UTR pressure and actually get some records started than sit around and hope that players will change their minds and start using the game mechanics to swing things our way. We're not going to win by not killing people.

I understand what you're driving at amd have considerted it. But I still believe bulletsponge's execution is what best serves the Republic at the moment. For not only the reasons alkready stated, but so we have a "kill" voting record, and so we know for sure what happens when someone is tossed off the rock.

I did sue you, you replacement player. :D

Seriously, it is just something I am testing with the lawsuits. No direct reason for targeting you specifically (just yet).

I am referring to me not seeing your clarification post, not your original post when I say I didn;t see it. Since I responded to your first post, I obviously saw that one.

If you think me referring to my ass is swearing, then you have a more interesting view of swearing thatn I do. I swear all the time in real life, but I was aksed in one of my games by pm because that person's kids read them as they play, and they wanted the game to be a good example. I still honor that request in my games for the most part.

What I have a problem with is personal attacks. My claims in your direction were about your un-leet quoting abillity (which was a joke) and your really bad attack against me, which was true and I stand by. Neither was about you, and you have no reciprocated either, which is good. I hate it when WW turns into "you suck, "you are a lier, " etc. That has not happened here on either of our parts.

And you still have no Abedar. Which I think is a very clever phrase, btw.

Hmmm. You think so? Alright then, let me pick a target at random, just to get involved.

Abeus Anxietius sueth Schmidityus Schmidityus

He's at a higher bracket than me, and it was at random after that. I rolled a die.

Making sure I have the lawsuit business in order. It is in the traitors best interest to gather as much wealth as possible, correct? But, at the cost that they could be exposed potentially?

Yes, but a clarification. It is in every player's best interest to gain as much wealth as possible.

That was submitted Day 1. You cannot bid on services while in prison. And no, while I wasn't surprised by being imprisoned, I hired the lawyer specifically to give me an edge in the lawsuit.

The list so far:

Bulletus Spongeous sues Kayus Whitus
Ardent sues Coffee Warlord
Alanus Teeus sues Grammus Atticus
Alanus Teeus sues Abeus Anxietus
Ardent Enthusiast sues Kwhit for suing me yesterday
Narcizo sues LoneStarGirl
Narcizo sues DaddyTorgo
Ardent Enthusiast sues Alan T
Pathus Twelvus sues Antus Meisterus
Pathus Twelvus sues Autumnus Leavus
Pathus Twelvus sues Tyrus Ithus
Pathus Twelvus sues Chiefus Rumus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Abeus Anxietus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Antus Meisterus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Autumnus Leavus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Barkeepus Valerius Fortynineus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Narcizus Lispus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Pathus Twelveus
KAYUS WHITUS SUES Peregrinus Barbarus
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES SALDANUS LATHUMUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES DODGUS ERCHICKUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES NARCIZUS LISPIS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES PEREGRINUS BARBARUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES DADDYUS TORGOUS
CHIEFUS RUMUS SUES MUSTANGUS SALLUS
Abeus Anxietius sueth Schmidityus Schmidityus

I haven't scanned that for duplicates, but each player is only allowed to sue each player once per day. So you can make no more than 25 different lawsuits today.

10 votes to execute (14 needed) - Tyrith (624), Narcizo (639), Grammaticus (642), ardent (653), Imthecrew (661), Barkeep (734), saldana (757), path12 (786), KWhit (798), Chief Rum (799)

I'm briefly here and have read through. To be honest hoops I agree with you but I think we have to accept the fact that BS just isn't going to make a convincing case for himself. I'll admit that I've allowed my experience in the Cold War game to influence me (he was the bodyguard and didn't make the slightest effort to save himself despite several promptings). That so hacked me off that if given the opportunity I'm going to be voting on him early until he changes his style of play. This is meta-level but the game as a whole just doesn't need players who are only going to make an effort when they're wolves.

So he might be a villager and we're giving the wolves a financial boost. On the other hand he might be a wolf and we're taking out the guy who's going to get them their choice of service every time. My gut feeling is that he's a villager as I'd expect him to be more interested if he was bad and had the chance to kill people and feel important. But I'm 95% sure he's not going to make any sort of reasonable defence. It sucks that he got given an important role (wealth seems to be very important in the game) but I don't think it's a killer for us. And I, for one, have a hard time imagining that he is going to use the opportunity wealth has given to him very responsibly even if we give him a break.

[/rant]

That said I would like to see a fairly close vote, although not that close as it's possible that we're going to need 17-8 votes to execute. The rationale part of me is wary of the pile-on that seems to have taken place. But I'm going to let my heart sway my head on this one.

Crikey! Is that the time? I've got to go again.

Well, that certainly turned out well for you (and good foresight). Of course, you weren't close to getting tossed off the rock, but good work nonetheless.

That clears some things up, too, that will allow me to tweak my "lawsuit standings". Thanks.

Crikey! You're showing your Britsihness. :D

Don't we in effect have a close vote? Right now, we're most of the way through the day, and we have only 10 execute votes. To me, that says 10 votes to execute, 16 (or whatever number is left) to not execute. Until a vote is submitted, it has to be considered a vote to not kill. At the risk of lumping inactives with those who actively wish not to have a kill, I think we can view it that way.

Looks like I have quite a bit of catching up to do. Some quick thoughts following my post from last night:


By AE's reaction (and his pleading for bids on his services) he was completely unaware that I hired him so this seems to be right.


Yeah, that's fine; I don't expect people to believe what I said, I put it out there so ya'll can have a bit more information and come up with your own conclusions. All I know is that there is no evidence of AlanT doing anything wrong. Since Coffee Warlord admitted Swaggs did the same for him, I'm going with that.

So why Alan? He plays the helpful villager very very well when he's a baddie so I had to know for sure. And yes you're right, Coffee WArlord may in fact be a baddie, we don't know for sure unless he gets scanned, but so far I'm willing to trust him and Kwhit above most of the players on the board unless something comes up.

Like I mentioned earlier, I have quite a bit of catching up to so I'll cya guys in a bit.

How weird. We were all posting demons as recently as a half hour ago (admittedly me more than anyone else). But now none of us are saying anything. Did you all go to lunch? :)

And right before I posted that, DC comes in with a post. I jinxed it.

I love you very much!

I'm here. And I just sent in my arrest action.

Are you hitting on me?

Care to share?

Cronin: You stated no money enters or leaves the game. Is this true for Swaggs and SnDvls as well? Did their killers become richer?

Yep, was kind of fun.

It would be helpful so that I don't duplicate yours. Even if you were to post a list of two or three, I could likely find a good candidate outside of that grouping.

Heh, as a night shift person, it's funny for me to see the break in posting, obvious as it is. Normally, I'm at my serving day job so I am not here to see it.

Not yet. I am still open to changing it if some new info arises, but I wanted to get a PM into st.cronin just in case I don't get a chance later. I don't want us to miss an arrest again today.

I'm not terribly happy about my choice, though, because I don't have a very strong negative feeling about anybody at this point. But FYI, the choice is one of the UTR folks.

I'm kind of in a lull as to what to observe/look at next, to be honest.

Withholding my vote on Bullet for the time being, as I feel awfully hypocritical voting for him when I was in pretty much the same boat yesterday. At the same time, he hasn't done much of anything to defend himself.

Sort of in a holding pattern for everything else till something new comes up to chat about. I'm out of thoughts right now.

I sent in a conditional arrest order (not sure if cronin views this as legal yet or not). It was something like this:

Arrest Joe Blow unless Barkeep also chooses to arrest him. If so, then arrest Jane Doe.

I'll check the maybe box

i feel like i've been very helpful so far this game. at least given that it's a massive game with confusing mechanics. but if you all want to arrest me and toss me off the rock, go ahead. i just ask all loyal senators to watch carefully and see how things line up when you do that...who votes where. There could very well be a wolf (maybe the 2nd person pushing for me, 1st would be pretty bold, but 2-3 is usually a safe place to hide) in the beginning, and there will prolly a wolf or two in the middle, and then I'd expect one or two to stay away altogether, maybe even to try to defend me.

least that's how i'd play it if i was king of the wolves

Call be crazy and paranoid, but I get a massive traitor trying to cover his ass vibe out of this.

VOTE THROW BULLET FROM THE ROCK

it's been said before. hasn't been very helpful. very much pissed me off (when i was the damm seer and needed him!) in the cold war game. so it's meta-game on that level, but i'd also rather we kill him if he's quiet, to avoid the wolves who killed him potentially getting that huge cash windfall. although leaving him alive for the wolves to kill we could watch to see who jumped in wealth (odds are that they'd jump a lot i guess)

as for consul votes, has anyone been put forward? i submit myself...fat lot of good that'll do i'm sure with alan and CR and hoops leading a charge against me...but i'd serve if elected.

There's no consul election today.

crazy and paranoid

SPQR 4 LYFE!

lol...leading a charge? Can't speak for the others, but I mentioned you as an arrest possibility not first, not second, but seventh, on a tier below main people I am looking at. If that is a charge, then LSG and bullet must feel like I am a rhino.

You're not alone. I was kind of like "where the hellus did that come fromus?"

Tease.

I'm just catching up, and I'll probably post a few times. I just wanted to reply to this one:

I didn't get a horseman from the bid. We know (supposedly) who won both of those bids. I bid on the second horseman listed I remember.

Secondly, given that it seems the traitors may have won bids on two of the services (if we go with the theory that that's how they made their kills), leveling the fianncial playing field with lawsuits might still be a good idea. If the field is level, wealthy traitors wouldn't have an advantage. They would have to rely on whatever random factor solves bids between equal Senators. Maybe that's a bad idea, I don't know, but it seems it would help. Unless we know that hte wealthy people are loyal, whcih we don't.

And I suggested randomizing lawsuits because once again, we don't know whether the results of a suit (treasonous information coming out) are public. If not, the traitors could arrange to sue each other and avoid evidence coming out. I have a feeling that might have happened looking at some of the suit records.

lol oh. still...wouldn't it make sense to start talking about it so we have more of a idea about it earlier?

oh it just came from RL putting me in a pissy mood

ok finaly finished the 4 pages of reading. it seems my fate is sealed.

someone wanted to know what i did night 1. i did buy someones services and found out something that would make me very useful to the romans, being rich and outbidding anyone for that service every night.


hehe DT im pretty sure i told everyone that killing me would be a big mistake in that game. for a seer you should have seen that coming. ironically my role is is very similar in this game as that, but once again yall want to kill me.

Go ahead and kill the wealthiest roman, i wont be the one regreting it later in the game ( my ghost will be laughing).

dola

i shoul note that ive been at work past 2 days so i havnt been in posting much, and besides it isnt like yall are shooting the shit enough for all of us

Bullet, there is no edge to be gained right now (I don't think) from taking Day 1 info to your grave if you are in fact a Roman and not a Tarq.

So - spill it!

I agree. I'm not home much longer, but if what you say is true I'm willing to try and save you so you can indeed keep a good power out of the bad guy's hands.

i dont know. ive never "spilled it" about my role or what ive learned in any other game. id hate to start now

You could always try to hire me...hiring me obviously would help sway votes...as it worked for CW. You need to sway others if you're interested, though.

Their families have inherited their estates. Someday their young sons hope to enter politics, and will need some seed money.

Well Bullet, you're probably doomed, but if you're loyal, there's no reason not to tell us about the service from Day 1.

On another note, I'm going to follow up on my earlier comments about LoneStarGirl with a lawsuit. Personally I'd like to see her arrested also. There's quiet, and there's way too quiet.

Peregrinus sues Lonestarus Girlus

Bullet, there is zero value to you dying with what you know. You have at least a slight chance of convincing us if you talk.

Vote Execute Bulletus Spongium Mysterio Rolius

Unless he comes out with more than a mysterious 'I'm Important' line.

what is the value in this if you are playing a game as part of a team...you know that you cant always live forever...everyone has to die at somepoint, and if you really are part of the team, you should tell us what could help us.

And how has that worked out for you in the past? Seriously, the game is more fun as you get later in the game and as your actions have more impact on the outcome. Is it really fun dying with a good role early in a game where you could have prevented it by collaborating with people?

In a semi-related note, what part of WW is fun for you as a villager if it isn't trying to figure out a chain of events and drive through the wolf deception?

I like the social interaction, figuring out funky rules. I'm not into the actual game game. I want to win because I'm competitive and that comes natually, but that's not why I play, at least.

Are you suggesting they may return?

I believe my suit against Swagg's family should be heard.

No, just having fun with the setting.

I still believe my suit should be heard.

Don't make me hire a lawyer. Wait. Never mind.

Vote Execute Bulletus Spoogus..

Although, per my past note, I still don't know for a 100% why everyone is nominating him. (Takes awhile to weed through 18 pages....)

Yeah, I'm a night guy too. I work from like 10 p.m. - 4-5 a.m. depending on press start and run. I come home and sleep until my wife leaves for work (usually somewhere between 10 a.m. - noon), and then I watch my daughter all day.

This game has been confusing as can be, since I just don't see any rhyme or reason for 90% of what's going on, and I don't have a lot of time to banter.

I'm counting this vote, although do try and bold all votes in the future.

Tit for tat.

Schmidityus Schmidityus sues Abeus Anxietius

By the way, Schmidty, in case you don't know, you're the 2nd best lawyer now.

Why isn't st.cronin posting a different color? It's making it f'ing difficult for me to sort through things.

I kid. Actually, Schmidty nailed this one. I hadn't even thought of that.

Man, I wish I could play that dumb guy every game.

OH WAIT!!! I do!! I just don't usually post in green caps, and I generally use conjunctions and refer to myself in the first person. :)

Gone until 10 CST or so.

BAN HIM! He's editing posts!