I'd like to note that it's not as if you're going to forget I voted for you or anything. The damage in that regard was very much done, I just wanted to do something slightly useful with the vote.

I didnt say i didnt expect, or even enjoy the heat. I simply stated i had quite a bit more and didnt need tyrith convincing more people to suspect me. I find these games boring if im not on the edge. Just sitting back and making 2 comments a day just doesnt interest me. I love my play style as much, if not more then, most people hate it.

23 divided by 2 plus one is 12

23 players alive, 12 is a clear cut majority.

The +1 thing was just written so that when we have an even number of people alive exactly half is not a majority. AKA if we have 22 alive tomorrow 11 votes will not lynch. Otherwise it's just like any other majority vote in anything else.

there are 23 of us, so 12 is more than half of 23.... I think anxiety explained it early, like in page 5

Well i cant say i didnt see the writing on the wall...not i get to enjoy seeing alan and the other spin this

Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I forgot we also lost Fouts last night.

Me too.

Well you know.. if you attack me non stop for 2 days, it doesn't convince me that I'm bad. It just gets annoying after a while. So take that contrast however you want.

Nah, just watch it in the future.

What do you want me to spin? I guessed wrong. Good lord

Ok, that's understandable. At first your comments just sounded (to me) to be like a 'woe is me' kind of thing. I hope I can build myself up to your level of always being on edge. Certainly puts a little more interest into the game. :D

Yes, im trying to convince you your bad...you figured out my grand scheme. My goal was to get you to self-vote yourself. Wow alan, im glad we have reached this intelligent conclusion to this debate :)

Is this an ok place to put these eyes again? :rolleyes:

Then your plan is terrible! He can't self vote himself, it's against the rules! Blade, your perfect scheme has failed!

Alan, if your good i understand totally. Ive had many many times where i drove a lynch and was wrong. But you have to understand i saw my top suspect be one of the major reasons a certain person was lynched and blow it off fairly non-chalantly...im willing to see both sides of your case, but you have to be open to seeing both of mine

Its a great place..i would have used them in mine lest you think me attacking you again :D

Wow, what a write-up. The twitching part got to me... poor Chief.


Yes, you are. Cronin you are a very underrated WW player ya know?

Thats the key to the perfect plan. As a bad guy, he votes himself, gets kicked out, and we win! Its perfect, i told you!!! :p

Come on DC, i was right too...dont i get a comment about my ability?? :( :)

Besides me, that is the last thing everyone wants. They all dislike me already, god forbid i take someone under my wing ;)

OMG, you're right! It is perfect! ALL HAIL BLADE!

If you did that I think we'd hunt you down and beat you over the head with your keyboard :)

I didn't push anyone to vote him. I put my vote on him and said my reason why. I was not the one campaigning for people to lynch Chief because we had to lynch someone. I was not one of the people who put my vote on there for no reason.

I will continue to try to put as much thought into my vote every day and give my reason why for it when I can. Like I said, I voted him based on past experience with how he acted with me. I was wrong, life goes on.

what are you all "right" about?
that he wasn't on the side of dark?

I think many people stated that today.

Do I need to? I've said it plenty in other games ;)

Oh, in public...but we all saw ant's song, i know what you say in private to your husband :mad:


Much love DC :)

I would like everybody who was online and who read my indictment of Lathum yet did not vote for him, to explain why not.

Umm... I skimmed through the past few pages to get caught up. What post number specifically?

Post #?

I can tell you myself the reason i didnt vote lathum is that lathum isnt acting like he does when he is bad usually in my mind. Hes playing like the lathum i got in fights with when we were both good, not the one we beat at the last second in the small game just now.

I felt moving my vote that late after being on Chief the entire time would be viewed very poorly in the case that Chief ended up bad. I think it would have looked poorly for me to sit on Chief after giving detailed thought and reason into my vote on the forum all day and then at the last minute switch to try to get out of the accountability for my actions.

I don't really feel any worse about Lathum than I do any number of people in the game right now, however I felt bad about chief for the personal interaction reasons.

Found it, nevermind.

1.No reason for him not to tell us, unless he is the turncoat..not likely to me
2.Id say its more becuase he tried it and failed then this, but possible
3.He would tell us
4.Lathum is eccentric, so i wouldnt say this isnt an option

I told you why i didnt vote him, and none of the reasons you presented put him before alan on my list.

Here it is. Lathum's response has been to attack Tyrith.

That's not a ringing endorsement to me. Why should I have swung my vote to Lathum is you weren't even sold on it?

Because there wasn't even a BAD reason to vote for CR, as was pointed out by several people.

cronin, so would you have wanted a no-lynch tonight instead of lynching a villager? I mean doesn't getting CR lynched leave us with something to work on for the future?

That was my reason for voting for Chief.

I'm pretty sure St.Cronin said many times he would rather us lynch no body than a good guy

Can't say tonight was too much of a surprise. With our luck last night, there probably aren't a whole lot of dark people left to hit. Hopefully we'll learn a bit more tomorrow.

Oh he did, my bad. I remember someone saying it but couldn't remember who it was.

Last night we lost the herbalist...im assuming you mean the lynch, in which case i would say i think we have more bad guys then most people think considering they want to kill each other too

The only problem is that we don't have a ton to work with. I think Alan's reason was pretty much valid...saldana and lathum I'm not as sure about, but it wasn't some huge war or anything we can take definitive action from. Instead we're just left feeling kinda icky.

Lathum is still on my suspect list for tomorrow...he's been bad enough lately that he is certainly capable of learning new tricks. Beyond that I don't know.

Not when there's a mass of players voting for Chief because "WE HAVE TO LYNCH SOMEBODY." How do you pick through those votes?

How do you pick through votes when no one is lynched?

Yes, I meant the lynch. We get the results at night which is what I meant by "last night".

The bad guys do want to kill each other too, but there can't be too many or it would be easy for them to overrun the villagers.

I think St.Cronin jumping on me because I suggested there was a failed conversion is very wolfish.

You don't, but you have another warm body at least.

You seem to think anyone making any sort of actual argument against you is wolfish today.

Is anyone else having trouble keeping track of who has been backing who in this game? I am having a bear of a time keeping these side-squabbles straight.

If Chief Rum had not been lynched, we would be +1 villager. Ask yourself this: Are the forces of evil happy he was lynched, or would they have preferred a no lynch? The answer is really obvious.

That is really easy to ask after you know the results of the lynch. We learn through lynches. Of course we'd be happy if we never lynched villagers, but that just isn't possible.

This is a fair point, but what I (and others) were saying during the day is that there never was a good reason to vote for Chief Rum. One of the benefits to putting votes on somebody is to see how they defend themselves. We all knew that CR was not going to be around to do so. So, the lynch vote became based on lynching somebody, instead of trying out an actual theory.

true. which is why i advocated a switch to lathum, although there wasn't really enough time to even learn anything from him defending himself due to damm RL getting in my way.

Ok, that I won't argue with. CR was not around to defend himself. Of course there is always the chance of others on his team (if he was bad) to push a little harder for another candidate. Had he turned out bad, we could have seen who was trying to get people to look places other than him. I will agree, though, that it would have been better if CR had been around to defend himself.

It would have been far better if people had voted for who they had wanted to vote for rather than getting sucked into the "we need to lynch SOMEBODY" mentality, which is just complete bs.

Eventually someone will need to die so we can understand how to evaluate those votes. As we go along in this game, we will probably start to learn something from those who chose to vote for people they thought were guilty, and those who were piling on to get a majority.

You act like EVERYONE voted for him. Just under half did not vote CR. You do have something to evaluate. Plus we have a higher percentage chance of hitting a bad guy in tomorrows lynch. That is the basic mechanic of the game.

Point me to one post where somebody other than Alan gave a reason for voting for Chief Rum, other than "have to make sure there's a majority." That means ELEVEN people voted for somebody they were unwilling to say was bad. So, you try to figure out what that means.

It means failing to lynch ENSURES you cannot eliminate a bad guy. Even lynching someone randomly gives you a better chance to win the game. As the good guys, we have more players to offset the fact we have little information to make the lynch. This allows more good guys than bad guys to die in order for the good guys to win.

This is actually a tired argument. Just vote whoever you think is bad. Next time don't wait until the lynch is over to declare yourself RIGHT AGAIN. I guess that means you KNOW Lathum is bad, since that is where your vote was. As someone else pointed out, you posted you were not sure. Actually until Lathum dies, we don't really know if you were RIGHT or not, do we?

What I was right about was that we were headed towards a bad lynch - one where not only did we lose a villager, but we learned absolutely nothing. I was far from the only one who pointed this out. There were several others who said the same thing. Really, it should have been obvious to any experienced player.

Post 719 is where I told you I voted for him because he was UTR versus Lathum. I had a good feeling about Lathum. His post about a conversion possibly failing was odd, but not a big enough issue to offset the pro village posts from Lathum up to that point. CR usually posts a bit in games and he has been really quite. I had no pro village feel about him. Unfortunatley we lynched a good guy and I'm not happy about that.

So shouldnt that make you take a closer look at those that started the votes? Lathum didnt come on until after 2-3 other vets...

You obviously have him confused with somebody else. :confused:

An experienced player should know our chances of lynching a bad guy in CR were low, but still better than zero percent that goes with a "no-lynch".

Hind sight is 20/20. If I am still alive when Lathum dies, I'll tell you if I was "right again". Then if he turns out bad, I'll tell you I was "wrong again". We have all been both right and wrong before.

He was quite the chatty kathy in the tombstone game. I'm pretty sure he has been pretty talkative in other recent games too.

I voted for Lathum, partly based on what st. cronin said in post #705 and partly because I was interested in how each reacted. At that time, however, I could see how people were voting for CR. I think it's a similar situation to yesterday, in that CR wasn't here to defend himself. It was different in that we knew CR was playing, but I feel that it made it very easy for ppl to pile onto him knowing there would be no resistance. Maybe it wasn't the best vote, but probably the easiest.

Lathum I believe was the second vote for Chief Rum. Second or third, and anyway, that vote had nothing to do with why I voted for him.

I am fine voting for somebody else, but I have not seen anybody other than myself post a circle of trust, or lay out any kind of indictment that I find meaningful.

Basically, Blade thinks Al is bad, and Al thinks Blade is bad, because of stuff that happened on Day 1, which day 1 is almost never meaningful - as I say in every game, bad guys don't slip up, and especially they don't call attention to themselves, on day 1. So other than the Blade-Alan peeing contest, what do we have to go on? Had people voted for people they were willing to accuse, then we could have looked at what happens tonight, and added that to the impressions people had during today, and there would have been a LOT more data.

What's to say that Blade didn't go overboard just so he could say "If I was bad, why would I draw attention to myself"?

Here is vote order. I was second vote on Chief Rum.

(446) Chief rum votes Saldana (1)
(482) Saldana votes Chief Rum (1)
(484) Izulde votes Blade (1)
(501) Jonathan Ezarik votes Daddy Torgo (1)
(504) Alan votes Chief Rum (2)
(532) Sndvls votes St.Cronin (1)
(552) Schmidty votes Chief Rum (3)
(554) BrianD votes Spleen (1)
(555) Lathum votes Chief Rum (4)
(557) St.Cronin votes Lathum (1)
(565) Tyrith votes Lathum (2)
(574) Blade votes Chief Rum (5)
(577) Jonathan Ezarik UNVOTES Daddy Torgo (0) ***
(577) Jonathan Ezarik votes Chief Rum (6)
(583) Mr.Wednesday votes Lathum (3)
(585) Thomkal votes Chief Rum (7)
(593) Grammaticus votes Chief Rum (8)
(594) Swaggs votes Lathum (4)
(595) Ntndeacon votes Lathum (5)
(607) Kwhit votes Lathum (6)
(611) Blade UNVOTES Chief RUm (7) ***
(611) Blade votes Alan (1)
(616) Sublime votes Lathum (7)
(625) Spleen votes Chief Rum (8)
(700) Lonestargirl votes Chief Rum (9)
(704) Tyrith UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(704) Tyrith votes Swaggs (1)
(707) BrianD UNVOTES Spleen (0) ***
(707) BrianD votes Lathum (7)
(708) Mr.Wednesday UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(708) Mr.Wednesday votes Chief Rum (10)
(712) DaddyTorgo votes Lathum (7)
(738) Izulde UNVOTES Blade (0) ***
(738) Izulde votes Chief Rum (11)
(752) Dodgerchick votes Chief Rum (12)
(758) Kwhit UNVOTES Lathum (6) ***
(758) Kwhit votes Chief Rum (13)
(765) Kwhit UNVOTES Chief Rum (12) ***
(765) Kwhit votes Lathum (7)

Well, shoot. I guess I get one post to say goodbye.

After reading through all of this today, all I can say is, more than half of you are complete doofuses (doofi?) and deserve to lose if you're good (and applauded if you're bad, since, of course, you would want me dead).

This must be how the mob mentality works--get something so flimsy as to be as transparant as glass, and then all the sheep jump on to "make sure we get a lynch."

The one guy who stated a "reason" was Alan, and even he screwed it up, confusing my post questioning saldana's motives as somehow support for him. One does not equal the other, Alan.

Oh well, I'm rooting for evil, in which ever way it comes. Good did me no good.

Toodles, kiddos.

Sorry you had to go chief, i wish you had been around to help defend yourself. Have a good one

Schmidty, Lathum, and Izulde stood out as potentially wolfish votes, to me at least.

Dola, i do find it odd that the two sides of the alan/chief and blade/saldana debate ended up disjointed today.

Salanda and Alan being the first two votes on chief(and the reason most followed), while i said i thought he was good, and chief obviously would have supported that view.

Just ironic

st.cronin,

I know you have LoneStarGirl in your circle of truth, but is there a reason for that other than her early vote against Scoobz?

no

Why put faith in a random selection like that?

As I said, it's just a starting point. There are some other people I have varying degrees of trust in, based on things they have said or done. Right now nobody is ironclad in my circle, and I'm not willing to bet the house that anybody is bad.

Why? Because my personal philosophy is it's better to get a lynch and have a percentage chance, however low, that we hit a bad guy like we did on Day One than completely give the bad guys a pass?

Like I said, the chance of potentially getting another bad guy with a lynch that's the only reason I switched off of Blade.

Low % > 0%

A clear night sky turns into a clear dawn as the cock crows. Some of you begin to awaken and dress yourselves. As you are on the way to break the evening fast, you hear a scream come from a side road near the Inn of the Dancing Pony.

You all head in the direction of the scream, and come across the body of Antalia Daverheft. Her body is lying in the dirt face down, with around a dozen stab wounds on her lower back. The mess looks a little less messy then yesterday’s overkill. Is the killer getting better at the job or is this the work of a new villain?

You gather together before breakfast at a hole dug for a new post. You decide to use it as a quick burial location and say a few words. With little taste for food you head back to her room at the Inn of the Dancing Pony. Here you discover a variety of tools and equipment.

A local maid is there cleaning up the room, and after some questioning, you find that Antalia was rather open with the maid. Apparently, Antalia was an adventurer that had come here to explore and find rewards in the Barrow Downs. You can find nothing that relates her to any faction, an in fact, there is no appearance that she even belonged to a side.

After having done a lot of work for the morn, you fill yourselves with food and reassemble to begin a new day of deliberations.

SnDvls has been killed

Day Three has begun and will end at 10:00 pm EST Wednesday Evening.



-Anxiety

"shoot" we lost another one! grrrrr.

*bedtime*

It says she wasn't on either side, so am I to take that SnDvls was a person with his own victory conditions?

That is what it looks like.

From the rules post:


Anxiety, what do the different colors on the roster mean?

dola,

To add to that, it does not say SnDvls was on the side of light or the town. That indicates SnDvls does not count for light in the overwhelm ratio. So DaddyTorgo, I'm not sure we lost another one. This may have been one of the best things that could happen on a night kill, short of one bad faction killing the other.

From what I can tell it looks like the colors signify either what side or what faction that they belong to. This takes us back to the discussion from yesterday and muddies the waters a bit more I think as for what allegiance Scoobz was. It very clearly seems to show that Sndvls was his own individual, he was not on the side of light or dark. So that then makes me wonder again about Scoobz.

Either people can have allegiances to light or dark that are independant of being in a faction (ie: alignment), or Scoobz was in a faction and when deaths occur to people in say Saruman's faction their death is spelled out a bit differently.

It appears that Sndvls was indeed completely neutral and independant, whereas Scoobz at the least had an alignment.

of course I do, I know I am a simple villegar.

I'm off to work but will be back long before deadline.

If St.Cronin and Tyrith want to continue to lead the charge against me thats fine but the only thing you will get is voting records.

I am just a normal villegar and have no defense or exciting role reveal.

This is a downright insult. I'm so sick of people saying no-lynch is better than lynching a villager but how in god's green earth can we find out whose bad until we get a lynch? With that mentality, we'll never lynch anyone until a seer comes out and posts a list of who they scanned, by then, it's game over, villagers lose.

Fine, if that's what ya'll want, then so be it.

vote schmidty



His vote on CR was suspicious as he only voted with no explanation and hasn't posted since. Now that we find out CR was good, we have something to go off of.

I'm off for a few hours.

I should add that I wanted to vote for Schmidty yesterday but the way the votes were towards the end, I felt I HAD to vote for CR so as to get some info. Hope CR's death comes to our benefit.

damn I I keep getting night killed
I hope it's a respect thing, but dying by night 2 is really starting to suck

vote Lathum

I hope somebody has something better.

Good morning all.

Yeah it sucks that we didn't get a bad guy in the lynch, but for me at least we had next to nothing to go on with either Lathum or Chief Rum yesterday, or anyone else for that matter. Thus it was much like a day 1 vote for me.

At first I thought St. Cronin had brought up some interesting points about Lathum, but as the day passed I just saw Lathum as a villager more and more. I would have voted for Lathum had he been the one in the lead at the time of my vote though because that's all it was-a feeling. I had no definite proof he was a villager. Same with Chief Rum. Hopefully some one will come forward with some evidence or info we can use in the vote today.

i feel your pain

dude....its werewolf.....people die.....you dont get to live to the end of every game....if i cried everytime i got killed, i would spend more time whining than i did playing....get over it, or dont play.

I believe several people have specifically said that they thought Lathum was acting like a villager. I would be interested in specifics.

I don't have any specifics for you. It was just his general tone and the way he defended himself as the day wore on that made me feel he might be a villager. Just the feeling I got from reading his responses. I could be wrong, wouldnt be the first time, won't be the last. :)

Blade mentioned that this isn't what Lathum acts like when he's bad, this is how he acts when he and Lathum get into villager/villager fights. That said, Lathum has been bad so much now that it wouldn't surprise me if he's learned new tricks, especially since the last game went poorly for him.

My main deal with Lathum is that you can't take every argument made against you as wolfish if you're just a vanilla. Some of them have logic behind them. Some of them don't. Attack the content of the argument, not the fact that the argument exists, because just blaming people because they're voting for you gets nowhere.

All this said, I'm not voting early. We're giving the bad guys a nice, easy way to not have to show any kind independent thought and get caught. Let someone else make the wake today and see if it changes things.

How so? In terms of how the vote was cast, or when it was cast?

I disagree on Lathum, FWIW, because even at the point where he voted, he was picking up votes and looking like the alternate candidate to Chief Rum. I think you're seeing what you want to see there.

In terms of when the vote was cast, I would also throw out Thomkal as one who cast a middle-of-the-pack vote on Chief Rum.

I just woke up, and I won't have time to catch up on things until later this morning (about 2 hours or so from now).

Before I go for ahwile, I need to make sure you all know (especially Dodgerchick), that any vote for me is a total and utter waste. Not just because of the obvious fact that I'm good guy, but also for another, MUCH more important reason.

Comments like this would make me think one would attract all kinds of attention from the people you don't want attention from. If you are good, comments like this will have the bad guys looking into you at night and if you are bad, comments like this will have the good guys wondering what in the world you mean and probably put pressure on you.

In a game like this with multiple factions, I forsee you getting a bit of both.