God knows the other major sports leagues like the NBA would never stoop to that level. So, while I'm shamelessly bashing them, for those of us without Toronto Star registration, where do the Hawks rank?

SI

There is also a story, I think from Edmonton that suggests that might use the last 3 years instead of last 3 years. I read that in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette this morning.

There was no full list. My guess is the Hawks would have three balls (out of 60). The Rangers and Blue Jackets have four. Teams like Toronto and Detroit have one.

imagine if Crosby ends up in Columbus

harharhar

While the NHL wouldn't like it, it would be great for Columbus. Following Rick Nash's performance in the World Championships the last few weeks, adding Crosby to that team would be grand.

I hope he goes to a place where they care about hockey and appreciate what they get. That, and NOT EDMONTON!

Hmm... what better way to ensure a star player winds up with the Rangers than to put him on the Oilers until he develops?

Hopefully that won't happen anymore when they start playing again...

ML gets a :p for bashing our free trade system with the rangers.


Karim gets a :p :p for being a flames fan.

And HB gets a :p :p :p for, uh...well he didn't really do anything wrong, but I'm sure he'll earn it in the future.

That is all.

Yeah, of course being a Blue Jackets fan, I'm excited at the best chance to get Crosby under any system that's been rumored. Imagine for the top PP having Crosby, Nash and Zherdev together, that would have to be one of the best PP lines in the league, and with Nash being the oldest at 21.

Of course, if the Jackets get Crosby, they need to go trade for Cory Stillman, and have the Crosby-Stillman-Nash line.

Oh, I'll earn it Oiler boy... I'll earn it.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I can't type. The Toronto Sun report says it will be based on the last 4 years. Another possibility is the past 3 years only. This helps the Penguins since they made the playoffs in 2000-1.

"Progress" this weekend. Looks like some of the things bogging them down (number-crunching) may be starting to get plowed through. Both sides saying they will continue to meet every single week until they have a deal.

I'm as pissed as anyone that these fuckers skipped the season, but they seem to finally be showing a true commitment to a deal. Now I do have to ask, if you're willing to meet every week now, why weren't you in the end of January and February???

~rpi-fan

I'm trying NOT to be optimistic because I've gotten my hopes up before. In that vain, I heard Thursday's meeting ended badly (as usual).

The only reason they're meeting seems to be (from what I've heard) that American advertisers have indicated their money is going elsewhere if they don't get a deal soon.

Where'd you hear that about Thursday?

The main news outlets (Yahoo!, TSN) that I was reading from, indicated that Thursday didn't make much progress, but today there were actually was some movement.

I do agree that the sponsors are having a noticeable affect on negotiations. I really don't care how, though -- just get it done. The sponsor thing seems to jive with what that hockey rumors site says, also.

I listen to a lot of sources so I can't be sure but I think it was someone on TSN. Nothing I've read today corroborates that though. The extensive meetings were just accountants going through team-by-team financials - grunt work that could have been done last summer.

There is momentum now; let's just hope they continue.

ESPN has not picked up its rights option which would have paid the NHL $60 million. This isn't shocking as it was expected that ESPN will want some hockey on ESPN2 at a much reduced price.

Is the lockout close to being over?

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=126559&hubName=nhl

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...1/1064644.html

This sums things up pretty well, I think.

However, the good news is there is the potential, however slight, for something BIG to come out of Thursday's meeting.

I'm just gonna ignore all this until there's a signed agreement. Like a great man once said, "There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee...that says, fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me...you can't get fooled again."

In semi-related news, I forgot to mention that I actually flew out to Vienna to watch hockey. I caught the semi-final games: Canada/Russia, Czech/Swedes and the Bronze Medal game (Russia/Swedes) and gold medal game (Czech/Canada). It was a great weekend. I was wrecked for days, but here's a minor report:

1. Ovechkin looked amazing. He's fast. Fiesty. And has a great shot. He is as advertized. He pulled an amazing move on Matty Norstrom, totally undressed him, blew by him along the right board and blasted into the top corner.

2. Malkin (Pittsburgh) looks very good too. He's a big, big young kid. He was playing on a line with Ovechkin and fit in.

3. Team Russia. In the four games I saw team Russia were the best. Canada were lucky to get that big 4-0 lead early in the semi-final game. There were a couple of questionable calls that went Canada's way. After that they were just holding on for dear life while Russia attacked again and again. Russia has a bright future. Their team is very young and very fast. Their pointmen were pretty pathetic, so they will have to work on that. Kovalchuk was really off his game.

4. Nash and Thornton. It was a break-out tourney for these two. I think playing together all year really helped, but it's good to see Canada start switching gears and going with some younger guys.

5. Zetterberg. He was the best player for Sweden by far. Granted the Swedes were missing pretty much all of their top stars, but he was excellent. With he and Datsyuk in the fold, the Wings should be in decent shape.

6. The Czechs. They played great, smart, well-organzied hockey. They totally shutdown Canada in the gold medal game. The limited their chances and Vokoun controlled basically all the rebounds. Jagr seemed to be playing back at a level close to where he once was. I doubt that will last.

When is Canada Day?

July 1st, my birthday.

Rumor has it something may happen TOMORROW.

The Flames left a message on my answering machine announcing a meeting for ticket holders with the team's President. Considering I haven't heard anything from them since last year's playoffs, I take this as a good sign.

As much as I hope so, I'll believe it when I see it.

fool me once, shame on you
fool me twice, shame on me

fixed that for you

What? Doesn't that saying go like this:

Is anyone else really worried about the future of pro hockey in North America? Besides the long lay off there are so many things that are convincing me more and more that I may never watch a game of pro hockey ever again... I guess it will be Fog Devils games instead.

1. ESPN walked out of contract negotiations, days after declining the option year on their contract. Plus, does anyone else know if NBC's deal carries over for next year... even thought it wasn't much of a deal... You might as well kill and thoughts of getting more American fans now and be done with it.

2. There seems to be more and more talk about a prospective rival league called the IHA... While I have my favourite players, if they aren't playing in the NHL I won't watch them. I'm an NHL fan, not a hockey play fan... and I think alot of Canadians feel the same way.

3. I can understand the league wanting to tune the game with rule changes like:
- No-touch icing
- Bringing the old offsides rule back
- Triming goalie equipment
- No red line
- Shoot-out
... but the crap they are talking about with the shape and size of the nets, the blue ice surface, neon line colors, open-style game, etc. is absurd. They seem set on making the NHL some type of circus you'd only see on SpikeTV or something like that. Are they really prepared to completly change the game of hockey and make it a joke, just to attract a few fans... that won't be anything but WWE-type casual fans?

As it stands now... if any of the absurd rules are picked up... I'm done with the NHL. I'm perfectly happy buying season tickets for the new St. John's QMJHL team, where hockey is still hockey.

I hate no touch icing, but surprisingly I actually like the concept of the blue ice with orange lines, if it makes the game easier for the casual fan to follow on TV.

The white ice is killer on TV productions. White is by far the hardest color to make look good on TV. It's usually too bright or too dark, the contrast is a pain in the ass. A different color, while looking odd at first, may help.

I am not in favor of changing the net size. A bad idea. It's not necessary. I think changing the size of goalie equipment will do what they want.

Before we start talking rules changes we need a league...

Turning the entire game into something out of Boise State football is not something I think I'd enjoy.

Blueish tint on the ice. Fine by me.
Smaller goalie gear. Good.
Weird new goals. Errr.... keep the basics of the game as they are.

Agreed.

34-36 Million? The NHLPA is the worst players association ever.

Report: NHL, NHLPA agree on cap formula

But from the sounds of the tsn article (but not the ESPN one), it's a team by team cap. What the heck does that mean?

SI

I don't see anything about a team by team cap. There's a $22 million minimum that teams must spend, a $34-36 million maximum and a luxury tax for teams that spend over the midway point.

yeah, the article just says the cap is based on team by team revenue. I would assume that means that a percentage of each team's revenue makes up the whole of the cap (ceiling and floor)

Despite the number of unknowns, here's an article that examines how the 30 teams are positioned within the potential confines of a new CBA:

http://www.calgarypuck.com/McGrath_060905.htm

By all accounts there's going to be a deal in the next two weeks or so. Once a deal is signed, it's going to be a very exciting time for hockey fans. We'll have the NHL draft (which by all accounts is a good one, the prize of course being Crosby). There is a boat-load of UFA's out there. There will be some teams scrambling to fill out their rosters and other teams scrambling to reduce their payrolls. Times they are a changin'.

Ideally I'd like to see the deal signed soon and a lot of this stuff take place in July/August. It would be a nice way to fill the sports gap between now and the start of football.

Some links:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=128726

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=128710

Sounds like there's an interesting discussion about cutting players without the buyout counting against the cap (which will be necessary for some teams to get under the limit). Both sides seem to agree that the old rule will still apply -- buyouts cost 2/3 of the total remaining deal. But the debate is over whether teams will be able to re-sign players they've cut.

The interesting thing is that this doesn't seem like an owners vs. players dispute, but rather players vs. players. Some guys want teams to be unable to resign their cuts, since in theory that would put pressure on teams not to cut certain guys. Other players would be more than willing to take a paycut after a buyout to resign, and don't want to be forced to change teams.

Theoretical question: what would happen if a team like the Leafs cut all of their signed players, then immediately resigned them to deals of the same length and at a value exactly equal to one-third of the original? The players would get the same amount of money over the course of the deal and would actually benefit by getting most of it sooner, while the team would reduce it's cap number by two-thirds in one shot.

Maybe they could add a special provision for this year.

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

Should be exciting for the Hawks if they can avoid making stupid personnel decisions *crosses fingers, toes, arms, and legs*

SI

Who gets the #1 pick then?

Good luck with that.

I am not sure if it's 100% set in stone, but there is a system based on a couple of factors, e.g., over all record in the last few years, having had the #1 pick over all in the last few years, and playoff appearances. Once the system is set there will be some sort of lottery to determine order. That's my vague understanding. I think there are posts in this thread that have better details.

Well, you've got a new GM so he hasn't done anything stupid... yet.

I'm not gonna go digging in this long-ass thread! Either way, what a year for such a lottery system. There are gonna be some pissed people in some front offices.

Who would bargain such an agreement?

I think it's the only way to do it really. If I recall correctly, I think it turns out, under the proposed system, that the Rangers and one other team (the Wild? Blue Jackets?) have the best shot at getting #1 overall. If the Rangers get it, there will conspiracy theories (see: Ewing, Patrick) abound!

I can't wait for the whirl-wind. The draft. Free agency. Almost entire teams taking shape. It will be wild.

It will be interesting to see how many Euros bail out on the NHL. Without the big pay days to maintain the incentive, I could see a number of them deciding to return to the mother land and play hockey there, especially the Swedes, who all seem to love Sweden (can't blame 'em) and the Russians, tax free salaries.

As the Chinese proverb goes, may we live in interesting times.

http://tsn.ca/columnists/bob_mckenzie.asp?id=128640

This is such a horrible system, too. Teams that just missed out on the playoffs get the same number as those teams that have outright stunk.

SI

Jeremy Roenick can kiss my ass.

Trivia time:

Who was the last player-coach in NHL history?
What team was he on?
What year did he do this?

Doug Harvey, Rangers, early 60's.

nosir

does Steve Smith count?

He should, but not by my sources! :D

Boucher with the Rangers in ??? 45, 46? maybe.

nope

Who is Chucky Burns?

Minnessota North Stars?

1970-1971?

Close enought!


Charlie Burns, 1969-70, Minnesota.

I would like to see the return of the player coach, myself.

So would I..Current day players who would fit the bill?

I could see Mike Keane maybe Scott Mellanby. With the sallary cap
coming this may be a way to differ some dollars. Pay Mike Keane $700k
to coach and $1.5 m to play...I dont know just thought of this.

Yes, guys like that.

Definately Steve Yzerman, too.

Ladies and gentleman, starting at center (and also assistant goaltending coach at $8M a year), Mats Sundin!

all fine and good, except you ALL know who the next player-coach in the NHL would be, and then ESPN would NEVER shut up about him...

Good one. Your right I could see those silly Leafs appointing Sundin
as goaltending coach. That would be right up there with all the other
top notch moves...That was your joke right?

Roenick?

Or all you talking about Gretzky becoming the coach of the Coyotes.

Super Mario

http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/3743720

Interesting.

I didn't check the links, but the LA Times is reporting there's an agreement.

Please be true :)

And on this day, of all days. So, I wake up in the morning with two alarm clocks. One is a radio set to sports talk and another is the traditional buzzer. I tend to drift in and out while hitting snooze on the buzzer and I'll have dreams related to what I'm hearing on the radio. Apparently they were talking about the Olympics this morning and I had a dream that I was at the Winter Olympics, buying tickets and I said something to the effect of "I don't care about anything else, I just want to see some hockey" and just felt this elation that there was actually hockey to be watched.

SI

players = pwned

Scott Walker says there's a decent chance that the players would vote the agreement down.

I think Scott Walker needs a good stiff drink of the Wake Up juice. This may not be a good deal, and it's clearly worse than they could have had in March, but there's no way it gets better any time in the future.

Walker also said if it is accepted, a lot of players will leave for Europe. Someone's a little bitter, I think.

Do they HONESTLY think they'll earn MORE money in Europe? The Sedins have signed a new contract with MoDo where they have an option to leave for the NHL if things get rolling. They will be paid in accordance with the highest paid players in the league... in round figures.. around $200,000 a year.. that's what? $50,000 more than the previous minimum salary in the NHL.. whopee..

I think in the last couple of seasons in the Russian league some NHLers (and ex-NHLers) were getting paid more, or at least roughly equivalent to, what they would have been making in the NHL the last couple years.

You know there will be a period of time where players who feel the new deal isn't fair will take off and look to play elsewhere. In time, they will realize that the NHL is still their best option, and they will be back.

Bah! Who cares.

/jaded

So they're going to stand up to the owners NOW? Jeebsus!

Sounds like Mike Babcock is going to be the new head coach for the Wings. I like the switch. Dave Lewis really never did anything for me. He was kept around after Bowman left to keep some continuity going. To maintain the status quo. If/When the new CBA is signed the Wings will be so far from the status quo that a change will be fine.

Agreed. Long-term, the cap situation could end up being the best things for the Wings. I think they were going nowhere trying to put bandages over a leaking, creaking ship for the last couple seasons. Its time to get rid of the deadwood (Hatcher, Whitney, Chelios, maybe even Shanahan) and let the kids play.

That really backfired on the idiot Ducks. Babcock is a good coach.

Gotta' be heartbreaking to lose that porn-stache though.

It will be missed. It's been behind the Wings bench since '87.

Know this is broken record, but just as we enter the next work week it looks like this is as close as we've been to a deal since February.

tsn.ca posted an update at 9:30pm Sunday night saying they were still going, trying to get a deal done tonight, which was encouraging (even if they don't finish, the fact that tsn.ca is optimistic about this week has me feeling the same way). Bettman is meeting with the exec. committee tomorrow regardless of tonight's meetings, but boy would it be nice if they got the voting process underway sooner rather than later.

Still, though, I'll believe it when I see it.

~rpi-fan

I believe a deal will be finalized in the next few days and announced on Wednesday.

And then it has to be ratified. I'm not getting excited until I hear a time and place for the press conference.

Some details filtering out about the deal:



http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=130180

TSN is reporting that the deal will be finalized today. It will then have to be ratified by the owners and the players.

The end is nigh.

Once this thing is wrapped up it will be a fascinating few months until the begining of the season. I can't wait. The 2005 draft, free agency, fitting payrolls under the cap. It will be great. I should be bitter. I should be angry. But I've been bitter and angry about this whole thing too long. That time has passed.

Game on!

The rumor I heard on the radio is that the NHL has purchased a full page ad for tomorrow's USA Today....

This is looking good! I agree with you HB...I should feel jaded and angry, but I am just looking forward to life in the new NHL...

Screw it, just bring the game back. No reason to be pissed. Sports is business. If they've hurt themselves, they'll just have to adjust.

I think the NHL, long-term, will be better off. Adjustments that needed to be made were put off. I think now, one way or another, the league and the players will realize what needs to be done to bring the game back.

ugggggggh, until I see an announcement I won't believe it.

but once I do I'll be in line buying Sabres tickets :)

I just hope the Thrashers do the same thing the Hawks have done (same ownership group).... $200 for season tickets. And they are not the worst seats either....

AGREEMENT IN PRINCIPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://www.nhl.com

Woo! Finally!

SI