Not sure how much of a shift this (re: the bolded below) will be but do think it'll help some with (4). If and when it's approved for (3) kids < 12 (?), that'll be pretty huge.

For (4) there needs to be a more prominent & sustained education campaign/outreach. I haven't seen any PSA on TV for vaccinations advertised, haven't seen any billboards on it when driving through GA and FL in early July, I didn't see any from the Olympics bits and pieces that I watched etc.

I've read plenty on the internet but its obvious that is not enough. With football season coming up, I want to see prominent current & HOF players pushing this. I want to see WWF and movie stars etc. I am pretty sure there'll be plenty of stars willing to volunteer and networks willing to give some free or discounted time.

FDA is expected to give full approval of Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine next week - MarketWatch

I've seen plenty of PSAs on sport broadcasts. There is definitely an MLB one with Dave Winfield and the NBA did some with Bill Russell.

This turned out to be the monoclonal antibody treatment. For some reason UW medicine started getting a spike in these calls yesterday and my wife has had several ask for the "medicine Trump got" and nearly all of them haven't tested positive and aren't showing any symptoms.

Given that de Santis is touting it and banking on it (despite it being judged effective early after infection while in reality people will develop symptoms, then get tested, then get really bad, then seek treatment), coverage of that might be the reason. And it would actually likely protect you for a bit i guess, but since it's difficult to produce it's way too rare/expensive to give on a whim. That's the crux with most antiviral treatments unfortunately, most only effective given early but not feasible to give willy nilly to everybody who tests positive.

However, there is also news of new medication developed by Astrazeneca, which essentially works with these antibodies as well, but geared for prevention and holding up longer, geared towards people whose immune system has trouble generating a response (for example due to having to take medication supressing). Isn't there someone here unable to be vaccinated ? Might be an option soonish.

So maybe crossed wires ?

AstraZeneca antibody drug prevents coronavirus symptoms, study shows – POLITICO

This is where I completely understand the anger of the pro vaxxers. Saying that there needs to be more done to convince people to get vaccinated feels like we are taking responsibility from those who have chosen not to get the vaccine at this point and puts it on people who have been trying to get them to take the vaccine for months. The people who say that they are never taken the vaccine or are undecided (tbh I don't think they are undecided but whatever) have given specific reasons why they are that way. One of the biggest reasons for refusa of the vaccine is everyone keeps telling them to do it. So I don't see why having MORE people telling them to get the shots will work now. Finally, none of that is increasing trust in the government and lack of trust in science, doctors etc. if that was the holdup.

The only thing that will change from last week to next week is that the FDA will have given full approval for Pfizer. I can see that causing one group to change their position from no or undecided to yes. Those that said that they were waiting for FDA full approval if I take them at their word (I don't but) will get the Pfizer vaccine. Maybe those that say they need to do more research. More research will be available. They will search out that information out, consume it and get the vaccine or not.

The only area that I would put on the pro vaccine crowd is to ensure that the when someone decides they want to get the vaccine, they have access to the vaccine ASAP.

I think a lot of those people will still petulantly and stubbornly say it was rushed and they're not taking it, even with full FDA approval (and there's even some truth to the idea that it's rushed, however weighed against COVID, etc).

But I think they're also going to have to decide really quick how they want to play "my tribe or my job" in the next couple of months.

SI

That’s called moving goal posts which they’re awesome at

There’s someone in this forum that’s been really good at it lately


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FWIW Zoe was my guide for my North Korea trip. Spent 10 days/evenings playing drinking games with her in various North Korean locations. Surprisingly enough none of the articles she has been featured in seem to mention she is a DPRK guide!

Wait? You went on a North Korea trip? Is there like a separate thread about this or somewhere you posted about it online because I suspect it's pretty interesting

SI

It was very interesting, but very uncomfortable too in many ways. I thought I mentioned it a couple of years back.

I don’t do social media any more, but Instagram’s probably the easiest way to see some of what I saw - alexbennett73

Wow. That is pretty interesting.

Tell us some stories about NK and your drinking games! They say what you see is all staged but any insights? I didn't list NK in my bucket list but wouldn't mind the experience.

It is completely staged, but they can’t stage the bits when your driving between places. From what I saw, as a general rule, if you live in Pyongyang life is not too bad (comparatively), but if you live in the countryside life is pretty horrific. I’ve never seen so much land as arable fields, but with so much manual labour and equipment that is so outdated even I could see it.

Wearable Air Purifiers, you say, Mr. Spambot?



SI

Jesse Jackson and his wife are both reported to be hospitalized with COVID.

Tennessee radio host who criticised vaccine efforts dies of Covid-19 | Tennessee | The Guardian

That's a shame...

The real shame is that no matter how many of these guys die, it will not move the needle on the anti-vaccers or Covid deniers.

New one! And now one of my favorites. Sweet jam.

"Sir, your time has expired" :lol:

Nothing does. Literally nothing.

I'm in a discussion on another board with an anti-vaxxer and no matter how you refute the evidence they present or use their own rationale to take down their claims nothing changes.

"A German physician looked under a microscope at the blood of vaccinated people and made startling discoveries" - physicians aren't lab techs and aren't trained to analyze blood samples.

"The guy that invented mRNA technology has spoken out against the vaccine" - He played a role in the discovery of the technology but had nothing to do with the development of the vaccines. He also combines conspiracy, speculation, and his medical knowledge in dangerous ways. If you want to use him as a expert in vaccines we can count the number of vaccine experts that are for and against the vaccines and see who comes out on top.

"Dr. Jane Ruby broke down a study that showed the vaccines contain graphene oxide" - The study was a Spanish study that wasn't published in a scientific journal and wasn't peer reviewed. She's also a self described "health economist and political pundit, and has a doctorate in Psychology.

It doesn't matter. At all. They just move from one claim to the next with no regard for anything that's been shot down and everyone with an opinion that supports their beliefs carries more weight than the thousands that are legitimate experts in their field that say otherwise.

Maybe because this is the result they want?

The knowledge is out there. At this point, engaging the deniers is just giving them the attention that their parents never gave them.

Our priorities should be

(1) Opening it up for everyone (i.e. < 12)
(2) Increasing access to people domestically who want it but lack resources/access (mainly poor and minority)
(3) Making sure we have a booster supply
(4) Getting shots out to the rest of the world

We don't have the bandwidth to do everything. And it is an inefficient use of resources to try and talk sense to people who are taking horse medicine b/c Dr. Facebook told them to.

Don't deny them vaccines or medical care. But stop talking to them.

Yeah, it's crazy. And they just get warped. There's a german former microbiologist (specializing in bacteria) who literally came out saying "the vaccines are a holocaust" and other crazy shit and this guy on another board still thinks he can mine nuggets of wisdom from his 'scientific' takes and "ignore the noise". And the same guy would go on and on about how mainstream scientists have a financial incentive here and ignores how all these contrarians have books, offer seminars, speak on monetized channels etc. And are associated with other crazy fringe people (and not just Covid fringe, but also homophobic, racist etc). It'd be hella fascinating if it wasn't so damaging.

Also, crazy fun story about that self-styled "inventor of mRNA as a drug" (Robert Malone, right ?):

His wife Jill Glasspool Malone, who writes all his bio on the website and linkedin, got banned from editing on Wikipedia for editing his entry adding in text naming him as the key figure. How do we know it was his wife ? The username (registered since before Covid) was glasspool1. And all her edits from 2021 were to add in stuff about Robert in RNA entries (general and vaccine). I kid you not.

Yeah Malone is the notch in the anti-vaxxer belt. When you do a bit of research on him he sounds like an asshole, constant contrarian, and a guy that's bitter history isn't giving him more credit for mRNA vaccines.

It's between him and Michael Yeadon (who up till 2011 worked for Pfizer, on asthma medication i think) for the "yeah, but even he says it and he must know !" category.

They knew their lines. Look how quickly he took it back and laughed.

He gets to say that he told his supporters to get vaxxed. But he's winking to them the whole time.

(All that said, it isn't like the Russian anti-vax propaganda stopped with Trump leaving office, so I do think that there are now MAGA who are anti-vax independent of Trump telling them what to do).

dola:

That said, if Trump came out hard pro-vaccine, it would move the needle (pun intended).

If he started calling it the Trump vaccine and making fun of GOP pols who are against it, he could turn the tide.

But he like the carnage.

USA Today-Ipsos poll:

Americans 72%-28% called mask mandates "a matter of health and safety," not an infringement on personal liberty

Americans 61%-39% endorsed requiring vaccinations except for those with a medical or religious exemption

— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) August 23, 2021

This is why I said he was a Rorschach President - if you wanted to pretend he was being truthful, you could see whatever you wanted to see from him. He'd say one thing one day and then completely contradict himself the next day. If you watched it with a critical eye, you could usually tell what he was actually thinking and what he was going to do - but he'd say everything across the spectrum to be covered. Sure, he'd say "good people on both sides" so the white supremacists knew he was on their side but then he'd recite his lines saying he was against them. To his supporters, it didn't matter that it was much later or that he said them like a child being told to apologize to his sister - "see? he's against them! i'm definitely not supporting a horrible racist".

SI

BS would say that Trump meant what he said and then immediately meant what he said right after because, you know, he said it so you can't know if he was lying you have to take him for his word(s) and he just meant it, so he meant it.

That they give religious and medical the same weight is why we're in this mess.

Full approval granted to Pfizer, as expected.

I don't think that this will get a lot of people off the fence. But it will hopefully give employers, etc. more courage to mandate vaccines now that they are no longer "experimental."

Oh, and take your well deserved 10 minute coffee break, FDA. And then get on approving it for < 12.

Watch the crazies make a big deal out of it being only full approval 16 and up, but not 12-15 ...


There simply isn't anything to aprove yet as the respective Phase 3 studies are not yet finished yet for either Pfizer (likely finished a tad sooner) nor Moderna. There literally is no application on the table yet to approve. As frustrating as it is and as unlikely it is to make a difference, the procedures (the most crucial is a clinical trial) are in place the way they are and it is just not realistic to expect those to be ignored, even if one does not agree with them.

I still think that the FDA and the companies are working closely together. If there is a method to get things to the FDA faster, they can communicate that to the companies. It isn't like they are waking up every day to check the mail, seeing if the application has come in.

And if the wait is 100% for science/procedures, then OK. But if there is any politics/bureaucracy holding it up (like someone here suggested that they are slow-rolling <12 approval b/c they don't want the numbers of people taking it to look bad), then that needs to be eliminated yesterday.

FDA approved aka Let’s Move the Goal Posts day! I have a few ideas but curious to see which one gets the most run.

My wife says her workplace was likely waiting on the full approval to make it "mandatory". She works with a high risk population, with people doing home visits. They 100% should have it.

This could cause a calamitous shortage in health care workers, from what I'm hearing. Other employers who have made it mandatory are driving people to apply to other companies that haven't made it mandatory yet, but are likely to in short order. We'll see though.

Exactly, the "skeptics" will just move onto another talking point. However, I think, as I said before, it means some people will have to start playing "my tribe or my job", which should get more shots in arms. We'll see how deep those convictions are when livelihood is on the line. Being petulant doesn't put food on the table but if it defines so much else of their worldview, I don't know what wins (I think "job" but I'm not certain).

SI

I think most will end up getting the shot but will blame Biden and the Dems for "forcing" them to. More holocaust references incoming

"I'm just here so I don't get fired."

OK. Fine. That's a rational choice. I do things every day that I'd rather not do so I don't get fired. And, there are some things that I'd choose to get fired rather than do.

So while people will try and make this into a huge thing. It's kind of just one of the choices we all make every day.

Pentagon says it is preparing to make the Pfizer vaccine mandatory for troops now that the FDA has approved it.

— Idrees Ali (@idreesali114) August 23, 2021

Our hospital started prepping for this a couple of weeks ago. They plan since then was to be ready to move forward with troop vaccinations on 7 September.

Fox is already "just asking questions" as to whether or not the approval process was rushed for political reasons.

Whereas creating and producing it with warp speed was presumably fine. Also, it does feel stupid considering they were asking the same sort of questions anyway and over 60% of the country (and more among eligible) took it already. True, that goes down to 30-40% of their audience i guess, but it is still weird. If you think it should not have been approved now you 100% also think it should not have gotten emergency approval.

We really need to stop focusing on convincing people.

We really need to start focusing on encouraging employers to mandate it.

I don't think so. We assume Trump controls his supporters but he's gotten popular by taking the populist message in that base (racism, conspiracies, etc).

Today he has already backtracked and is selling an anti-vax t-shirt (you do have to donate $45!).

So the SC Health Department release stats on COVID breakthroughs. It basically boils down to, in a stadium of 75,000:
All unvaccinated: 1,500 would die.
All vaccinated: 3 would die.

Yeah, it's insane. Orgeon has twice as many people hospitalised right now than they had to treat despite being double vaxed, period. In the UK 3% of Over 50s are unvaccinated since the end of june and make up 38% of deaths in that time frame in that age group. (At about 93,94% the vaccinated will make up a majority, albeit at very low levels).

I was curious about this so I went to his site (and did not find it).

Apparently, his new slogan, apparently, is "Save America". But at least a third of the items on his site have "Don't blame me, I voted for Trump" or something like it on them. They do really get the context of "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos" - actually, I know the answer to that. Don't get and don't care are two different things.

SI

Update, they already issued the mandate today. Imagine those will be coming fast and furious.

Guess it's an e-mail/text blast to get the $45 t-shirt.

Trump campaign using anti-vaccine panic to fundraise. pic.twitter.com/3Vmnzurxt4

— Brandy Zadrozny (@BrandyZadrozny) August 23, 2021

Tell them they can get a participation ribbon or a trophy if it makes them feel special.

We drove to Dayton this week and there's a very large church that has a jesus statue outside of it (you may have heard of the previous one that caught fire when it was hit by lightning, I thought it was zombie jesus because he was rising out of the ground..anyway) on the light up marquee was the flashing display "STAND UP FOR YOUR MEDICAL FREEDOMS"......so that's totally apolitical for sure.

Guessing not a pro-choice message.

I'll take false equivalencies for $100 Mike.

If this is the new standard -- that failure to take measures to alleviate your own health problems are punishable by doctors refusing treatment -- the extension of this logic to obesity will certainly be something https://t.co/QBzLZyrOan

— Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) August 23, 2021

Wait a second... Brian Schwartz... BS... Ben Shapiro... BS....

They should have been branded Freedom Passes all along. What a missed oportunity. If nothing else, to piss those off that won't ever get it anyway on their own.

Given the level of disregard for basic logic, misuse of data and disregard of those that aren't convenient, unjustified ad hominem, distortions, and general hypocrisy that has become par for the course particularly recently around here, this is a truly hilarious take.

That's a great channel

If you talk to obese people about the treatment they generally receive from the medical community, walking out would be an upgrade.

An estimated breakdown of the calls my wife gets for the UW Covid response team:

20% confused about who is eligible for the booster because it's only approved for immuno-compromised people rather than by an age group
20% want the booster and are eligible

20% inquiring about covid test results

15% scheduling their vaccination

10% wanting a booster so that the mask mandate won't apply to them (it still does)

10% wanting the "treatment Trump got"

5% everything else


Last month she took roughly 350 calls. As of yesterday morning she was over 750 for this month with a week to go.

Our city shares a post from the Northern Kentucky department of health, reporting cases and deaths. Encouraging people to get vaccinated. Our area is still deep red, but more blue than most of the state. Look at the people who comment on this. Why does a certain type of person feel like they must comment? And look at how many pro v. anti vax posts.

I still can't believe this is the standard mindset, after all this time.

https://www.facebook.com/31342357115...1590926406151/

Great news. I'm ready for my booster!

We've had J&J and Pfizer in the news recently. Moderna has been kinda quiet about booster or getting fully approved by FDA.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/healt...ata/index.html

Same deal here. We are the #1 county in KY for percentage of vaccinated adults and yet our local community FB page is overrun with ridiculous comments. It's definitely a vocal minority.

I like the woman who says she personally knows 12 people who have died from blood clots after getting the vaccine.

And her Facebook page says she works at urgent care.

Came across some Australian doc selling a book series where he claims over 500,000 people have had adverse reactions to the vaccine and more than 10,000 have died in just the US alone. It then asks, is that just 1% of the real numbers????

So, over a million people have died from just the vaccine for a virus that doesn't really exist and the media is just like... "sure, we'll go along with that." I can't even follow that reasoning.

But what can I say, my co-worker has refused to get the vaccine because he thinks he'll be fine. But his daughter can't get it because she's immunocompromised and literally almost died due to reactions to some vaccines when she was younger. So you would think he would do it just to keep his daughter safer, but nope.

Trump > family


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There's a psychological thing at work here... it's a gruesome variant on the thing that makes "urban legends" so pervasive.

We heard the story about our friend's sister's neighbor who bought that dog in Mexico... but then as we are about to re-tell the story, some tiny little voice in our heads seems to whisper "if you actually say it's your friend's sister's neighbor you are gonna sound silly...and this story is true, so don't leave all that stuff in" and we re-tell it but say it's our sister who bought the dog. Thus, the absurdity remains hidden from view... in a really strange way. I'm convinced that this white lie is central to so many such stories getting passed around as true by so many people. We've decided they are and then we retroactively whitewash the particulars that we skipped over when we heard it.

Anyway... I bet she "read on facebook" about all the dead people with blood clots. But she intuitively knows that saying that won't persuade anyone, so she ups the ante and says she knows the people who died which is patently absurd but sounds daunting and definitive, to her mind.

So wait, tell me more about your sister's neighbor's brother's Mexican dog story.

Delta adding $200 a month to the insurance cost for unvaccinated employees. I wonder how common that will be.

That could be effective as a motivator.

It will be interesting to see how it holds up in court.

Obviously life insurance premiums vary based on a persons habits, but does employer provided health insurance?

My company has a premium for smokers so I think this is the same principle. It is self-reported but I believe it would be grounds for termination if you lied.

The employer's cost is based on the health experience of all those covered under a plan. This is why nearly everyone's insurance costs go up every year or two, or your employer changes up the plans or switches to another insurer.

At my current job parts of our benefits are tied into participating in the wellness program.

But are people charged more for not participating?

I'm pro-vax, but I don't like this.

It is a very small step to ObEsITy iS A ChoIcE or "Why should I pay to cover your STD?" or "You knew that certain diseases ran in your family and you chose to have kids anyway?" and then eventually to a pre-ACA world where everyone could get insurance as long as they were completely healthy.

Got my first test today, after an event I attended had some high profile positives pop

Good luck. Hope you are neg.

Companies like Delta can and should just require their employees to be vaccinated. Many other companies have, especially now in light of FDA approval. A $200 monthly surcharge to stay on is generous. (And reckless)

We have a Health Expectations Plan where I work. If you don't go to the recommended appointments and get your recommended treatments (ex. colonoscopy or alternative procedure), you are docked $25 each pay period (each week).

Yes

I can see this but there is a tobacco surcharge already on most (if not all) insurance health plans.

Obesity is not a contagious disease that can wipe out your whole crew for a couple of weeks. But it is a fair points since they are a self-insurer.

Also, it seems like unvaccinated employees cost the company more money. They have to be tested regularly and provided with additional PPE. They are a considerable liability too.

These people want everything to be run like a business and they're going to find out that when you lower your value, you don't make as much money.

Yes but to Albion's point, obese workers cost employers (and their co-employees) more money in health insurance premiums. So it could be a slippery slope on the way to making insurance unaffordable or unavailable for the most at-risk people. Insurance is premised on the idea of spreading risk, and that includes both low and high risk. So there's always going to be some aspect of low risk insureds subsidizing a high risk group (be it health, life, homeowners, etc.).

One of my co-workers came to work today with sniffles and a cough, and went home after progressively getting worse all day. Luckily, I don't come into contact with my co-workers daily.

For me, the folks who participate in the wellness program get a yearly discount. There are 3 things you can do and each has a discount associated. Do all 3 and you save $1000 per year.

I think it is all about phrasing. Those who don't participate are paying the 'normal' rate.

This HR pro says yes, an employer can absolutely charge employees more for not getting a vaccine. And hopefully more companies follow Delta's lead.

At some point those in Media need to have a long hard Talk about how they 1) write headlines and 2) 'place' them on google or google news .

New NYT article on google:
"Myocarditis more common after Covid19 vaccination, study finds"

Open it and headline is now: "Heart Problem More Common After Covid-19 Than After Vaccination, Study Finds"

Really, NYT ?

Some of you have heard this I'm sure before, but I was treated to a new phrase today.

A 'maskhole'. So far as I can tell, it refers to somebody who believes in the mainstream view of masks being a useful tool against spreading airborne disease. Or perhaps, just someone who is particularly aggressive towards those who don't believe this.

What wonderful new adventures in vocabulary this pandemic doth bring to our culture.

Yeah, that's pretty misleading.

I agree it's not a good setup, but the people who are fighting the vaccine/masks/etc the hardest are the ones who want government as far away from their health care as possible.

So if you cheerleaded for Delta Airlines to control your health care for the past few decades, you are getting exactly what you asked for.

well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions

— lil du bois💡 (@geraldinreverse) September 29, 2018

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw the dog pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

How the antidepressant fluvoxamine emerged as a promising Covid-19 treatment - Vox

Some very promising news about a possible COVID treatment.

Not sure if the horse-dewormer set will jump on this because it is a COVID treatment that isn't vaccines, or if they will reject it b/c science indicates that it might work.

They seem OK with the monoclonal antibodies, so hopefully, they will accept this, too.

Entirely because Trump took it. They call it the Trump medicine when talking to my wife.

Trump took a vaccine too. I haven't figured out why that doesn't count as something they should emulate.

Because it's not just about Trump? That's just something latched onto when it's convenient.

Side effect of maybe being less angry all the time?

SI

Capitol riot lawyer who said he would never get vaccine has Covid and is on ventilator | The Independent

also Kyle Rittenhouse's lawyer