Cite your source on that.

I only ask because it sounds like a both sides justification...

I remember a lot of posts here saying that the stock market is only for rich people and that Democrats shouldn't concern themselves with it, but that's certainly not the party platform or anything.

I thought the argument was that Republicans were too stupid to realize that not voting for Democrats was in their self-interest economically I mean, they can be too stupid to be selfish, or they can be purely selfish, but they can't simultaneously be both at the same time.

This is among the worst of your hot takes.

Why?

Because you are trying to suggest that people can't be stupid and selfish at the same time and/or you are attempting to launch an extended internet argument based on the semantics of absolutes. Dealer's choice.

I wasn't doing either. You literally said they can't be motivated to do anything that isn't selfish, but we have lots of examples of them doing things that people say they should do out of pure self-interest. So either you didn't mean what you said, or it wasn't accurate, or those other statements about them not being selfish enough aren't accurate. They can't both be simultaneously true, that's in 'alternative facts' territory.

As I've mentioned before, I know a number of people personally who put the lie to this. It isn't entirely political. The world isn't that simple. There are people who have a stance because they want to own the libs, but there are also people including medical professionals who are against the vaccine because of what they know of the science, there are people who are anti-vax in general but also quite apolitical, etc. There is overlap between these groups but also significant divergence into subsets.

More to the point though, I wasn't make a political statement. I didn't bring that up. I addressed myself to the impact on the world. Do you think injury or adverse consequences due to political motivations is somehow that much worse than it what happens due to other personal decision sources? I mean to me, if someone dies or is injured in some other way, that's true and tragic regardless of the why.

So. #2 then.

Well if you call that the semantics of absolutes, then there's really no point in discussing anything then. I mean, why would anyone post here if we can't actually address our arguments to what people say. The whole first step in any debate is to pin down what someone means by their stated position. *shrug*

Man, I am so sorry I do not fully qualify the generalizations I make on the internet to the standards you are used to.

Dude, that's not the point. I gave you plenty of chances to qualify it after the fact. I can only go by what you said, similarly to how you made conclusions on what *I* meant based on what *I* said. There's always room for you to say 'here's what I actually meant, and it isn't what you think I meant'. That's healthy both directions. Whether or not you want to actually do that is entirely up to you.

What in thee hell do you think you are arguing at this point? I still fully believe and proclaim that millions of people can be stupid AND selfish AND vote against their own self interests. You say you've invented a way to interpret that as contradictory. Congratulations?

I would say if you think the entirety of the Republican base, the term you used, is stupid to that degree then I recommend familiarizing yourself with more sociological research. There are a lot of stupid people, and you can make a pretty good case that they skew Republican. But there are a lot of people in the Republican base who are simply demonstrably not as stupid as they would need to be to fit your paradigm. It's right up there with the 'Trump support is explained by racism' argument that we see every once in a while. It doesn't survive a cursory examination of what we know of demographic reality.

I'll give you that not every Trump supporter is a racist, but we have data that shows racial resentment is a very good indicator of whether or not a person supports Trump.

Oh, you're not trying to gotcha me over the dictionary definition of selfishness, you're trying to peg me for generalizing while using word 'entirety' in a post months(?) ago.



That makes this argument so, so much worse.

@thesloppy Huh? The only post of yours I quoted was made less than two hours before I quoted it. I have no idea what you are talking about now.


We have data showing various other indicators lean in different directions as well. Single-factor analysis of this kind of thing is virtually always quite short-sighted. There are all manner of demographics at play, we know that a larger percentage of the minority vote went to Trump as compared to Romney as just one example, so you could single-factor that and say Trump's appeal was *less* racist. Then you can throw in how Romney was running against Obama, but that doesn't really explain the Hispanic vote going more Trump's way, there are other factors there, etc. The point is, it's complex.

Well, this is interesting and concerning ...

Last year was tough, but because of the prospect of the vaccine, there was hope. An idea that this wouldn't last forever.

We've lost a lot of that hope. Now, because of the antivaxxers, this feels like something we're just going to be fighting back and forth for years to come.

When I saw the title, I thought great. But then I read the highlighted sections below and it's not near as strong as it should be (and inconsistently applied for the military).

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/polit...ion/index.html

IMO, I don't see it as binary as vaxxers and anti-vaxxers. It's more like

(1) People that have taken the shots
(2) People that will never take the shots
(3) People that have not been approved for the shots or have a good reason not to take them and
(4) Other undecided

It's a waste of time talking about (2). There's not going to be a significant shift unless they are forced or there's a lot of dying happening. And honestly, with the vaccines now, improved therapeutics, and 60+% that have been vaccinated with at least 1 shot ... I don't see the mortality rate coming close to what we experienced last year.

For (3), I would include young kids and also pregnant women. I think there is an understandable pause for them and other conditions.

For (4), this is the challenge. There are plenty of Blacks and Hispanics that haven't gotten the shots. I doubt it is Trump vs Dems, and not access as it's been accessible for the past 2-3 months. My guess is lack of trust in the government and lack of trust in science, doctors etc.

For the population in (2), the Government should not subsidize Covid hospitalization, meds etc. They are on their own/ their own insurance if they get sick. 20% copay will still be a significant amount.

I agree with what you said on (4) Edward.

This was all inevitable with the combination of delta variant, sizeable portion of people refusing to get the vaccine, and dropping the mask mandate. As much as I love not wearing a mask and personally did not need one to protect myself, it was a get out of jail free card that absolved the unvaccinated from any responsibility.

99.9% of places that don't require a mask are not going to ask someone about their vaccination status, and many of the people who won't get vaccinated don't care enough about anyone else to put on a mask. So it's laughable that we have these signs everywhere that say "If you're unvaccinated, mask is required." The only people I see wearing masks are those who either can't get the vaccine or already got it but still want to be more protected/keep others more protected. The #2 group in Edward's list is the sizeable group, and I can't imagine a single one of them giving a crap about wearing a mask when they don't have to, since many of them whined about wearing one when it was required.

I'm hoping that groups #4 and #3 are enough to get us to herd immunity.

There is approx 21% of US under 14 and approx 14.5% between 5-14. Don't know about Blacks and Hispanics but something I read said their vaccination rate is below their relative population size. So let's focus on those 2 sets, do a better job of reach out & education, better therapeutics and get us over this hump.

United States Demographic Statistics | Infoplease

Getting as many people as possible vaccinated should be the goal. Talking about some herd immunity goal is just another excuse for the leftovers to feel like they can continue unprotected. And if herd immunity is the goal, then masks and other precautions should have remained in place until we get there.

We continue to dance this limbo between doing the smart thing and relenting to the pressure of pulling back at the first signs of a let-up and it continues to bite us in the ass. Dropping mask mandates going into last summer was so stupid and set us up for a terrible fall when school came back. Fast forward a year, and we have a vaccine but can't get most kids vaccinated while dropping masks and distancing, and we're setting up for another restricted fall.

Granted, deaths will be down, which is great, but we still haven't fully achieved a long-lasting semi-normal state yet. What is the ultimate goal? To turn Covid into the flu? With that, you have to accept some level of annual deaths and the knowledge that people are going to routinely get sick.

but why did they lose trust in science all of a sudden? hmmmmm?

That's not a bad grouping. The media's obsession with MAGAs has caused us to think that it is all #1 and #2

Except that 2&4 are the same and deserve your derision, and 3 is with 1 in being pissed that 2&4 are too fucking stupid AND selfish. There is no decision if you're eligible and able.

I also think, from reading social media and in personal conversations, that there are a number of people who would publicly put themselves in group 4 but who are really group 2.

A lot of people also seem to think they're in group 3 but are really in group 2.

Not sure where to put the "I'm doing my own research" people.

Let me put this plainly:

DEAR UNVACCINATED FOLKS. THE ONLY WAY THIS SHIT ENDS IS IF YOU ALL GET THE SHOTS AND STOP BEING SELFISH. THINK ABOUT THE GREATER GOOD FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE.

I edited out most of the swears.

Really? I have an immediate family member who was recommended by their doctor to not get the vaccine . I know what the medically knowledgeable on this board will think of that, but the family member in question spent their career in the medical field as well. Suffice to say that there's more to it than that. This will probably cause me to get flamed, but I'm going to say it anyway; it was a pretty close call for me to decide to get it. I think it's easy to underestimate how differently people think, there is basically nothing that boils down to being as obvious a choice as described.


They didn't necessarily. Some are holding out *because* of what they know of the science, not in spite of it.

but isn't it weirdly weird that this spectrum of thought on this topic tracks with the politics of it? Doesn't that ring fantastic to even you? I mean I sit back and watch the theme consistency and I'm amazed how it crosses into even science nowadays.

I find it normal - perhaps that makes me cynical? But, to repeat what I said further up, I don't think it tracks as closely to politics as most are claiming. For example, I voted Biden. I know apolitical people who strongly oppose the vaccine push. I just don't think it's that cut and dry.

Many of these same people have gotten vaccinated, or had their kids vaccinated, without question for their entire lives. Mumps, tetanus, flu, chickenpox, etc. Including boosters as adults. Suddenly, it becomes "wait and see" and "I'm examining the literature" when we really don't have the time to give it 3-5 years to make sure the long-term studies coincide with the initial studies.

And, you can keep saying this doesn't boil down to politics, but many of these same people were touting how great it was that Trump made the vaccine happen as quickly as he did in December. Trump loses (or had the election stolen), and suddenly the vaccine is the equivalent to, I don't know, injecting bleach into your veins.

Perhaps the degrees vary based on where you live. It tracks really closely where I live and I don't know many people who don't have an opinion on politics. And particularly on one side, they express that opinion in clothing, flags, signs, etc., without saying a word. Some of them have gotten the vaccine, sure. Many have not.

I'm not talking anecdotally I'm talking broadly and broadly, country-wide you're wrong. The consistency tracks:

Pro-life
anti-welfare (products)
Anti-gun control
pro-religion in schools (as long as it's Christianity)
pro-religion in govt (as long as it's Christianity)
Lower taxes / fiscal conservatism (now when a dem is in the WH)
anti-science
anti-climate change
anti-regulation unless it's something they want to regulate
Liberalism is communism
Anti-communism unless it's Russia helping the GOP
Anti-Dictator unless it's trump
Pro constitution unless it needs to be changed to get Trump in office
Anti-corruption unless it's our own
ANTI-VACCINE (Anti Covid Vaccine)

All are on the same track for the big swath of people in that very same tribe? To think otherwise is just rich.

Bottom 15 states in vaccination rates, just about all of them have something in common but I can't quite put my finger on what it is.......


States ranked by percentage of population fully vaccinated: July 28

Anymore, I think Social Media has replaced religion (specifically Christianity) as the go to for belief systems.

While some may cling to brick and mortar churches, it's just easier for one to click on facebook groups or twitter and espouse made up bullshit with other "believers".

Trump was able to market the outrage and populism that others would dream of. His followers cavort with altered reality because they refuse to believe otherwise it outs them as *gasp* wrong ( they were built for it what not with believing in angels and a big god man up in the clouds).

Their way of life and belief system are under attack from progress and they are not going gentle into the night...Trump and his ilk mine it and state they can return it back to the good times (y'know when minorities were quiet, gays were in the closet, and the rich could be rich - last one is still true).

Same went for being anti-vaxx. It's their hill to die on and boy are they doing that.

I can't be sympathetic with willful ignorance. You can believe in a god and still be a decent person who understands differences.

A lot of these people woke up to realizing the American Dream was dead for them, so with Trump's help (hell he's the epitome of American Dream amirite?), they wanted to destroy the chance of it for anyone.

The way we handled coronavirus is a reckoning of our future, unlike how we handled polio or even smallpox (IMAGINE if half the country had refused those vaccination drives).

The willfully ignorant in this country want everyone else to be poor, stupid and afraid, just like them.

Get your vaccine

I never said there wasn't an overlap. To repeat, I think there is a lot of it. I think most people who are anti-vaccine are on the political right. My point is that isn't *all* of it and there's more outliers than people on this board tend to claim. It's been claimed recently and repeatedly that there aren't *any*

So I don't really disagree with the larger point, I'm just saying that - as it always is - the bigger picture is more complex. When people say it's *all* politics - no it isn't.

For example, as of mid-June 29% of unvaccinated were Democrats, 49% Republican. Those who said they definitely weren't going to get it were 67% Republican ... which means a third of those who said they weren't going to get the vaccine *aren't* Republican. Those not convinced either way were split evenly, which means it wasn't obvious at least a month ago to a significant number predisposed to not be on the right that getting the vaccine was a good idea.

So yes, on the big picture politics plays a big role, but there's also quite a bit more going on that that. There are a lot of issues you can poll and get bigger splits than that (say, just about anything relating to Trump for example).

Another fun fact; the same polling found that 27% of Republican respondents had been vaccinated. Which of course is not high enough, but it's also a far cry from 'half the country is refusing the vaccine'.

And I know a doctor who prescribes hydroxychoriquine. Being a doctor doesn't preclude you from being an idiot and those doctors should be brought before their boards to have their licenses reviewed.

Closely maps to rankings of public education?

There are two major groups. The group that is more, 'wait and see,' does skew more young and less-white than the general population. The group that is more, 'I'll never get the shot,' skews more white, middle-aged, and evangelical than the general population.

I just saw that polling data this morning.

The person who finished last in med school is still called doctor

I would say the Venn diagram is close to a perfect circle

I don't get the "wait and see" approach. Wait and see until when? The vaccine has been administered for months now. How long are they going to need to make sure there aren't any side-effects? Two years? Five years?

They need more time to do research.

The next person is called a Dentist

I know several people in this category. It's sort of a dual wait and see.

1. Wait and see if the vaccine causes any problems.
2. Wait and see if the COVID situation gets worse or better.

If COVID goes away/herd immunity/variants are no longer deadly, I think they'll never get it. But if the virus is still spreading and deadly (the worsening being at varying degrees depending up on the person) AND at that point there are no major problems (again, the definition of "major" varying by the person) yet with the vaccine, then they'll get the vaccine.

In short, what I've heard isn't wait and see for any specific amount of time, but "wait and see if we get to a point where I'm more worried about the virus than the vaccine."

lol

Years ago I did standardized patient acting with a group working with medical professionals on how to get people to take an HIV test. The dental students were, in general, terrible.

I have one in my household, and I can give her answer. She was very afraid of possible reproduction implications, which is among the main reasons studies on medications go as long as they do. What if it does cause high chance of birth defects in people that get pregnant after they are immunized? I think the risk is pretty low, but can anyone honestly say there is zero chance?
She has already had Covid once, and hoped that gave her some protection while she continued to watch what came. Now, because of the delta variant she is getting her first shot on Friday.



I can understand the hesitancy of some. And given history, I especially understand it among African Americans.

Ben, that just seems to be a recipe for getting the virus at this point.

Wait till you meet a few Optometrist. The only group that has a higher quack ratio are Chiropractors. (I am not saying all are quacks, but there are many both professions that are).

It was less quackery than an absolute certain arrogance that they knew best. My patient just didn't respond well to being told, you have to. The dentists generally didn't know what to do when I said, no I don't have to and I won't.

Now the country doctors from the MS delta, those providers knew how to listen and persuade gently. I'd be at yes with them in under 5 minutes some days. They ended up being the model for the other trainees.

I never had to go to an Optometrist until recently (knock on wood) and it was a (very) mild shock that they're practically all working from inside retail showrooms. I guess it makes plenty of obvious sense for convenience, but it just feels strange/wrong to have a doctor hand you off directly to a sales person.

Try telling that to someone who is more worried about the vaccine than the virus. I did.

"I've gone over a year without catching the virus. What makes you think I'm going to get it all of a sudden next week???" smh

I had a friend I talked to who is still on the fence. He says he isn't an anti-vaxxer but he has health problems (obesity, high blood pressure, etc) that he's concerned could cause a reaction and since he's divorced and on his own, he's afraid if he has a reaction he'll die.

I countered that he could let me know when he gets the vax and I'd keep in contact, and if he got the virus and got really sick, what would the difference make if he was all alone?

Some people just need to be educated by the coldness of nature I guess.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Fear of the vaccine and not the virus....again....overestimating not only their own knowledge, but overestimating their response to BOTH the virus and the vaccine, because the reality is, they don't know ANY of those answers. Admitting that would be the first step toward progress.

The person just after is called Rand Paul.

My wife is an optician, and her office (which is an optometrist's office) is way more medical than retail. My daughter office (also optometrist) is more of a combo. They have a big sales floor for glasses and such, but then her doctor sells a bunch of snake oi....I mean "homeopathic" medicines. They have a cryo-booth, and a ozone treatment machine, and he sells a bunch of different oils and vitamins and such. His office is makes some real money.

Wait and see is just, wait and see if other people will fix it for me so I don' t have to do anything, don't have any civic responsibility and can continue to go around and say that they proudly never got vaccinated and they are here to tell everyone about it.

I don't know if this is attributable to African-American hesitancy or just another example of "wait and see"...

This is an amazing anecdote: https://t.co/7QfKutiEzn pic.twitter.com/FM7GmdRxRu

— Nick Baumann (@NickBaumann) July 28, 2021

Just remarkably dumb and selfish people.

I desperately want to know the process involved when one of these dopes says they need to research things further. Is that just scrolling Facebook and looking for anti-vaccine troll posts? Do they go to their public library and look up "vaccine" in the card catalogue?

Or, is this just something they say to try to deflect a reporter's question when the answer is 100% that they're never taking it.

Edit: Montez also said about the vaccines, "I haven't caught COVID yet so I don't see me treating COVID until I actually get COVID", so, while it's nice that they're bringing in experts it doesn't seem like the holdouts have the cognitive ability to grasp anything they say.

But, I think the NFL and the players have at least succeeded in exceeding the vaccinating rate in the general population, particularly the age demographic they're dealing with. But it's still shocking to me that there's so many holdouts when life as an NFL unvaccinated player is just going to be completely different than the life for a NFL vaccinated player. Those who don't get the shots aren't just indifferent, they are dug in, and putting their own "research" over their lifestyle, chance of postponed games and forfeits, etc. True believers. True, dumbass believers.

Cobbling together a few stories, it sounds like WFT has Ron Rivera a cancer-survivor head coach that has directly begged his players to get vaccinated, they brought in someone who worked on the vaccine to speak with the players, the league is claiming something like 85% vaccination rate overall, but Rivera implies that WFT's vaccination rate is closer to 50%.


...what's going on over there? It seems very unlikely that's just isolated coincidence, the front office is going through it's own extended cultural implosion, and they literally have no identity. I wish I was watching a Netflix documentary about this right now.

For some it is political, but they can't say that. Like I'm guessing Beasely has to show his allegiance to Trump so he can't do it. And probably a part that wants the virus to spread more. But to not look like a simp, he makes up a bunch of excuses about not having information despite the league offering up one of the creators of the vaccine as a source.

Others are likely just dumb people who got suckered into the anti-vaxx shit online and can't be convincned. Again, they have to hide it behind "need more info" because the truth that they're just stubborn morons is worse.

Also funny to me because all these NFL guys stuff themselves with supplements, pain killers, and probably even steroids. They play a sport that is almost guaranteed to give you brain damage. But this is what they are concerned about.

Maybe we have found a reason.

Go back to March of 2020 and google. Pelosi, Bloomberg and each of the dem candidates all saying things like this:


I do think this vaccine BS from republicans is much worse - but the second a republican gets back in the white house - expect democrats to once again hope for bad things for this country (just like the republicans are right now).

It's a different world than it was in the 90s or even early 2000s. The party out of power now almost gets giddy when bad things happen to the country - and that isn't a good thing.

Let's not romanticize the past. It was 1994 when Bill Kristol wrote his famous letter to the GOP saying that they must stop healthcare reform because if it passed people would never let the GOP revoke it.

Yeah, but that's a policy debate from the 90s where many people felt the government couldn't run health care as well as private PPOs for the cost. I think Kristol still honestly believes a national healthcare plan is bad for the country.

I think that's different than saying a republican politician who has already had the covid vaccine saying "Don't get the covid vaccine (that has been shown to be safe)"
or
A democrat politician who's made a killing off the market saying "The stock market should go down because of our dufus president".

Neither side can even fake being "genuine" or looking out for the best interest of the country when you say things like that.

You do realize how that quote doesn't prove what you alleged? I mean, that's Dems criticizing the President because the stock market went down, not wishing for it to go down because he's the President.

I'm not sure talking down the stock market as a political issue right as we are in the beginning grips of a pandemic is a statement made with the best interest of the country in mind. But, I guess we disagree. I'm sure many republicans don't see an issue with advising caution on a new Covid vaccine - but I disagree with them as well.

I was just reading a lengthy article on this subject, and I got there from an aggregator, so I was lazily half-way through it before realizing that it was a Mother Jones article saying Fox News is the answer/problem (spoiler!)....so I won't call it unbiased, but they make a compelling case with lots of meat:

The Real Source of America’s Rising Rage – Mother Jones

I think it's pretty clear that we mostly live in echo chambers where each side keeps having their message reinforced without even thinking (letting alone empathizing) with the other side. But, this is starting to get more political than this thread was based on.

My original point was that republicans should be held accountable by the public for the BS on not accepting the vaccine earlier.

You said that in the 2000s the two parties worked together, but there's written evidence the GOP started its strategy of giving the Dems no bipartisan accomplishments in the 90s.

And there was Dan Burton shooting watermelons in his backyard to prove Bill Clinton was a murderer.

Arles still in here trying to both sides this shit.

One party is actively turning fascist and anti-democratic in front of our very eyes. But sure, because you saw some left wingers cheer Trump's failure, that means both sides are equally at fault

I think is Trump is worse than anything on the democrats (which is why I voted against him both times). My point was I don't see this changing whether a D or R is in the white house. Half the political spectrum will be rooting against this country when not in power and I don't feel like it was that bad in the 80s, 90s or even early 2000s. I think social media, the cable TV specialization and the hunt for only like-minded resources have exacerbated this IMO.

But, as I said in the initial post, what the republican Anti-vaxers did in Biden's first 6 months was reprehensible.

"The huge increase in government aid prompted by the coronavirus pandemic will cut poverty nearly in half this year from prepandemic levels and push the share of Americans in poverty to the lowest level on record." https://t.co/Ib9KLeH3NY @JasonDeParle

— David Beard (@dabeard) July 28, 2021

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/28/u...-programs.html

Now watch the backlash around a hundred reasons why too few poor people are bad. Regardless, good to see that aid reached those that needed it.

Also makes me mad that despite significant spending Germany did barely keep it from growing too much, so i'm not judging per se, just flabbergasted how obviously it is possible yet it took a pandemic.

Polling has consistently shown that people who *have* gotten the vaccine generally think the risk of hospitalization & death from contracting COVID is much higher than it statistically is. We need to jettison this idea that 'we' are the ones who understand the facts and 'they' are the ones who don't. There are very few Americans who have an accurate picture of the known facts regardless of what snapshot in time you use a reference.

And no, nothing Arles said is both-sidesing this. Reading comprehension is beneficial :). He's said multiple times that he thinks the Republicans have been worse here.

Be that as it may, as long as there are doctors recommending against it, it's hard to blame their patients for not wanting to get the vaccine. I mean, we can't say 'do what the medical professionals tell you, but our medical professionals, not the one you've trusted with your health for decades'.

Ive been to the doctors a lot over the years and have had to become in tune with my body and its needs, but I would not follow my doctor if they told me not get vaccinated.

Would that open a doctor to a mal practice suit if one of their patients died of covid after telling a patient not to get vaccinated?

The slight bit of befuddlement I feel and perhaps a bit of bemusement I feel watching my Facebook wall become filled with people that were so hard core against the vaccine now getting covid the day of or day before they were supposed to get their first shot is a very weird feeling. I want to grab them and say, “see!!! Now it’s too late!!!” But I don’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whew, back to normally scheduled programming on non-political, Covid related matters.

I'm ready to travel again. Been to UK and it wouldn't be my first choice. Personally and selfishly, being full vaccinated, I like the announcement. But I think its a little premature for the UK with the unknowns of the Delta variant e.g. it's just starting to hit the US.

The issue here is sustainability. The level of spending, heavy-handed approach by the Fed etc. was entirely appropriate in the short-term but is likely to cause inflationary issues in the medium and long-term and would also require much higher taxes to sustain long-term, which would have other knock-on consequences. We've known for a very long time that poverty can be reduced given enough spending, i.e. UBI or whatever alternatives one might want to propose, but there are unintended consequences to those approaches.

A good compromise for now assuming Disney is also doing the other stuff such as limiting no. of people in stores, wiping things down all the time (e.g. seats) etc.

Yeah, I am trying to get back over to the UK as soon as possible and I am desperate to not have to wear 8 layers of clothing while I am there. All that being said, I think I will wait for a few more months.

Here's a shared FB post I saw this morning that's related to some of the discussion here. I don't know these folks, but they're apparently good friends of some old friends of ours who have moved to Florida. Based on her profile, she appears to be in medical sales of some sort, so I doubt they're traditional "anti-vaxxer" types.



It sounds like this couple just....really didn't give it much thought. "We're young, healthy, don't get the flu shot. We'll be fine." I wonder if a lot of people aren't so much actively "eff you, other people who might get sick," as they just don't really think beyond their own little bubbles.

I was doing deep dives of scientific papers on the clinical trials. It is so hard for me to get into the mindset of people who aren't paying way too much attention.

It's like the college football fan who loses sleep b/c a possible 3* recruit sent a cryptic tweet that might imply he's more into another school versus his neighbor across the street who is pretty sure last year's QB graduated, but he's not sure who the new guy is.

"God is good," just has trouble getting the message out on vaccines.

To me, the latter is just a passive form of the former. I mean, at this point, it is beyond obvious that your health decisions on Covid affect others. It's just selfishness - an unwillingness to care about anyone but yourself and your family, IMO. I'm not listening to the "we just didn't appreciate how serious this really was" crap anymore.

I just...do people just not understand viruses? It's not like fighting a small animal, where "hey, I'm young and strong, I can take this thing on."

Where's the link to the "how many 5 year olds can you take?" thread?

Heh. I would suspect that the folks posting in this thread are relative Covid grognards compared to the general population. I mean, we’ve come to this conclusion about many things political here. Why wouldn’t this be the case as well? This thought also reminds me of how frequently I’ve heard or read “if you are worried about the virus, it is your right to wear a mask, but I am not worried about the virus, so I shouldn’t have to wear one.“ I’ve assumed that mindset came out of “active” selfishness, because OF COURSE they know that a mask protects others, and not themselves, right??? But I’m starting to wonder how many of them don’t even realize that.

I see that in Facebook a lot. These same people are all mask-exempt as well, apparently.

Heh, I thought about a pitbull (which might be hard for anyone, really), a pug, a raccoon, a pig, and...a 5yo. Thought best to leave it generic. :)

Exactly. If we needed a 1/1 comparison to what the Republicans are doing now, the Democrats would have needed to tell people to sell off all their stocks and divest from all their USD, because the US economy was going to crash.