Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker
(Post 3418968)
I don't know, a simple Google search can find what you're looking for. I know it's new to you, but this has been going on awhile and the numbers are staggering.
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Thanks for your links. Always good to have something besides twitter feeds to analyze and react to. Unfortunately, your google-fu really didn't answer the question.
Just so we level set, this is your original statement that started this part of the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker
(Post 3418917)
Illegal settlers commit far more violence in that area on an almost daily basis than whatever handful of Hamas fighters (probably PIJ) is doing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker
(Post 3418968)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMaker
(Post 3418968)
These aren't friendly evictions you see in America with a sheriff showing up with a document. They terrorize people, assault, kill, burn their land until they leave. Incredible violence toward innocent people that has gone on for years. This doesn't involve the Gaza attacks or Hamas either (which is what I'm told is the need for murdering so many innocent civilians).
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As always, it's good to define "settler violence". In your provided #2 link, the definition is below. In addition to the obvious "killing & injuring" there are also many other conditions.
Quote:
“Settler violence” is a catch-all phrase for the various ways in which Israeli citizens living in the occupied West Bank terrorise and harm Palestinians. Such acts range from trespassing, blocking roads or access to land and water sources to setting cars, homes or other property on fire, stealing livestock, burning or cutting down olive trees, throwing stones, and vandalising churches and mosques, as well as various forms of physical and verbal harassment and intimidation. In several cases, settlers have used live fire to kill and injure Palestinians.
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Analysis:
#2 and #3 are articles on settler violence since Oct 7. I will easily concede there's been more settler violence against West Bank Palestinians since Oct 7. If that's how you want to argue this then I'll just say "no surprise, very bad for innocent civilians, but somewhat understandable to a degree".
IMO article #1 is 2022 and much more valid for our discussion. However, it does not breakdown the violence caused by (1) Settlers vs (2) IDF. It does say there was a UN report (but no hyperlinks provided) so searched hoping to get a breakdown.
I found 2 articles that (I think) references the UN report.
Just a moment...
Quote:
150 Palestinians have been killed in the occupied West Bank by Israeli forces so far this year, including 33 children**. In addition, a boy was killed by either Israeli forces or Israeli settlers who were firing side-by-side. At least two Palestinians were killed by settlers.
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Note article talks about Settlers being killed.
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10 Israelis, including five settlers, one settlement guard and four Israeli forces have been killed by Palestinians in the occupied West Bank in 2022.
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I'm going to say first article is really not detailed enough to provide much for either side. But I wanted to toss it in for transparency.
The second article does specifically document Settler violence but not in detail. In 2022, there was 231 "casualties" and 625 property damage (see chart in article, too big to embed).
Increase in Settler Violence, Displacement - Remarks by OCHA Spokesperson Jens Laerke - Question of Palestine
Now let's take a look at West Bank Palestinian violence against Israel. Specific to 2022 because that's what your #1 link was. According this wiki link, in 2022, West Bank Palestinians killed 21 and injured 51. I'm actually surprised that all the non-rocket attacks in 2022 were from West Bank.
Category:Terrorist incidents in Israel in 2022 - Wikipedia
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On March 22, 2022, four people were killed and two more were injured during a stabbing and vehicle-ramming attack by an Islamic State supporter in Beersheba, Israel.
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On 29 March 2022, a series of shootings[1] took place in Bnei Brak, Israel.[2] Diaa Hamarsheh, a 26-year-old Palestinian from Ya'bad, killed five people.[3]
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On 5 May 2022, a terror attack took place in El'ad, Central District, Israel, during Israel's Independence Day (Yom Ha'atzmaut). Four civilians were murdered and several others were injured.[1]
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On 27 March 2022, two Islamic State gunmen opened fire at a bus stop in Hadera, Israel, killing two people and injuring twelve.[2]
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On 23 November 2022, two bomb attacks were carried out at bus stops on the outskirts of Jerusalem. Two people were killed and at least 26 were injured.
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On the night of March 20–21, 2022, Sayed entered an apartment in the Arnona neighbourhood of Jerusalem and murdered Moldovan foreign worker Ivan Tarnovski, who he thought was a Jew.[6] Another Moldovan national was seriously injured.
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Raad (or Ra'ad) Fathi Khazem, a 28-year-old Palestinian from Jenin, killed three civilians and injured six.[5]
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There was also approx 1179 rockets fired towards Israel. But those were from Gaza strip.
In summary (or what does this all mean):
Your original statement was specific to "illegal settlers commit far more violence ...". If you had said "Israel/IDF commit far more violence ...", I would agree. I disputed and continue to dispute assumption of "illegal settlers" until you provide more evidence besides generalities.
None of your 3 articles provide a breakdown of "violence" against West Bank Palestinians by (1) Settlers vs (2) IDF. I was not able to find the UN report referenced in #1 with the detailed breakdowns (e.g. just give a list of the incidents and who caused what) but found 2 related articles. Only the 2nd article was specific to Settlers but did not break down the severity of Casualties (e.g. broken arm, shot dead etc.).
For 2022, does the 231 casualties and 625 property damage > 21 Israeli's killed and 51 injured + destruction of buildings, buses, stores etc.? I really don't know.
What we need is a detailed breakdown of Settler on West Bank Palestinian violence, similar to the wiki page I provided for violence against Israel. If you can google and find those stats, I'll be glad to do another deep dive to see if you were exaggerating or not.
