Fair enough. I clearly read something to your post which was not there.

Thanks. :)

I'm having a hard time seeing KWhit's moves as being wolfish, it just seems a bit too bold if he was a wolf. But then again I saw that Alan was quite interested in pushing people who he seems to think are overstating their case in the Cold War thing. I don't think either are particularly suspicious at the moment and I'd really like us to concentrate on the quieter people around before this turns into yet another case of lynching people because they're actually saying something relevent.

You make a good point that a treasonous senator might very well try to gain as much power as possible as quickly as possible. There is a LOT that a treasonous consul could do to thwart us. The thing that scares me the most is that a Tarquin Consul could arrest another Tarquin, get him thrown off the rock, and all of a sudden be in a solid circle of trust until endgame.

I am the only senator that I know to be loyal to Rome. I am making this push because I personally trust NO ONE ELSE at this point to hold this important office. And I remind you - I did not ask for votes until I had already received one unsolicited. If you mistrust me, you must also mistrust SnDvls. You cannot believe that SnDvls and myself if Tarquins would put both of our butts on the line so openly this early in the game. Your mistrust is wise, but it is misplaced.

stcronin: Who is capable of hiring a lawyer on behalf of the senate? I am guessing that whoever hires us can then assign us to prosecute a charge of treason?

I was feeling pretty good about my (relative) safety until I comprehended that part of the rules. Thinking about the lawyer-role, I know in my description I was told I am loyal to the Republic, but I still think I go and act on behalf of the highest bidder, so I'm not real sure how this role is going to play out. Also, we don't know (and I doubt if stcronin will tell us) if someone else can become a lawyer if one of us dies. Should be interesting.

Incidentally people seem to be alluding to the fact that they can vote twice in the consul elections. Did I miss something because my read of it is that you only vote once and the two people with the most votes get in.

I wonder what the tie-break situation is. I think it's best that the people around at the time avoid us finding out that there isn't one by using their vote to break a tie before the deadline.

For someone to be thrown off the rock, I am pretty sure that they would need to be arrested first. As of now, I am the only one arresting people, and while I don't feel that I have much trust for him at this point, its clear that others do feel better about him. Enough to the point that any arrest of him would likely right now until we find other information out would end up in a no-conviction and thus be a wasted move on my part and no better than inaction itself.

Whether or not he gets elected as consul and whether or not he chooses to use the position to pursue personal vendettas will only be seen I suppose. As of now unless I find reason to do otherwise, I plan not on arresting him today as I do not see anything coming from it tommorrow.

We may (so I assume we are not required to) place two votes for Consuls and one vote for guilt or innocence.

It has been pointed out before (in this game as a matter of fact), that often two of the more vocal people (usually both good guys) are set against each other early on while the quiet wolves sit in the background and skate by. AlanT and I cannot fall into that trap here. We are both vocal and helpful to the cause at this point, IMO.

We need to focus on the quiet ones until evidence suggests we look elsewhere.

Well, in the attempt to not die...

The old thought about having to lynch someone Day 1 doesn't really apply here. You can't use that when there's only 1 target. You're losing a loyal member of the Republic for an almost totally useless voting history.

Oh.

And Vote Coffeeus Yakus Warlordus Innocent

Elect Kayus Whitus for Consul

Voting for KWhit? I've found his comments decent enough. My other Consul vote is in the air right now.

This brings up a question in my mind... Cronin, can we withdraw our election vote and choose someone else as long as it occurs before deadline?

Alan (you do not have to answer this if you do not want to), would you consider jailing someone who is a significant vote-getter today?

I am wondering what that may do to our potential Consuls (ie: if a Consul is found guilty, do we go without until a new term comes up or is there a "special election?"

I have no vendettas at this point. I wish I did, as that would suggest that I had some idea of who might be a Tarquin. Alas, at this point I do not.

And I do not think that your nomination of DC for Consul was suspicious, just a bit surprising as I did not recall her participating much in the discussions so far (something I feel is important to have in a consul, IMO).

D'oh! Looks like I'm an idiot who should read better. So we do get two consul votes.

In that case

Vote KWhit for Consul with my first. I think his points have been valid up to this stage. However I don't necessarily buy his argument that both he and SnDvls must be bad guys if one of them is.

I'll wait till this evening with my other consul vote.

I think I have already answered that previously, but if there is enough trust in someone to vote them a consul, I find it hard to believe they would find enough votes to be thrown off the rock the very next day without cause. Thus my arresting someone who appears to be fairly popular, seems to be nothing but a wasted move on my part.

Good answer.

I am going out on a limb for my second Consul vote, as this person has not expressed interest in the position, but re-reading through the thread, I feel like they would do a good job:

Vote Autumnus Leavus for Consul

I am curious to see if anyone else has a good feeling about Autumnus Leavus?

I have a better than average feeling about Autumn.

Anyway I'm going home now. I probably won't be around very much at all for the rest of the day but I'll come in to cast my second Consul vote when possible.

At the risk of sounding self serving:
I have nothing against KWhit, but let me point out that the bad guys likely know who the other bad guys are and so they may safely nominate someone for Consul knowing that person is a good guy. Alternatively, the good guys don't know who the bad guys are and could accidentally nominate someone who is a bad guy.

However, I do like KWhit's speeches and will likely cast my vote his way.

KWhit is getting himself too much focus and attention in this game for my liking. I don't like it when the game starts to center around one or two players, and KWhit is certainly garnering a lot of attention so far. I won't really oppose his election to consul too much, because he seems to be coming out as a consensus candidate....but it kind of quietly alarms parts of me.

CR or DC would both be acceptable consul choices for me with the other slot.

I like CR's reasoning, so my first vote for consul will be him.


Vote Chiefus Rumus for Consul


Also, I agree that we need to do something today with CW.

Vote to Execute Coffeus Yakus Warlordus


I think that a baddie would want to avoid the spotlight of the Consul. I find posts like Neon Chaos at 316 to be suspicious.

I don't know...

I am usually more alarmed by the quiet ones early on. Usually the most vocal ones are the ones that end up getting wrongly lynched simply because there is a spotlight on them.

However, I am glad that I am receiving so much attention though, because I think it will make me a prime candidate for a seer scan, which I welcome.

To be honest, I'm having a pretty hard time having too much of a feeling about anyone right now. This game is so chaotic I'm mostly just trying to hang on and wait for some people to die to lower the number of people I have to think about. That is largely why I'm being fairly quiet -- the other reason being a test this evening and a test Thursday morning, so I may not be terribly active the next two days.

The attention thing and the quiet thing are related concerns. When we get so much focus on a single player, making them the center of a lot of what's going on -- especially in a game this size -- it casts a shadow for the quiet players to hide in. It doesn't as much alarm me about YOUR allegiance as much as concern me about the general game situation and our ability to effectively pick targets.

I don't know. As a good guy, as a GM, and as a bad guy I've seen villagers waste a day or more in a game because they started t osecond guess a candidate for no real reason other than "we can;t all support a candidate this soon."

I, for one, trust KWhit. I always have, including our little survivor Lupus team. As such, I'm happy to spend my other vote.

Vote to Consul whatever KWhit's nick is.

Oh, we should definately elect people. I'm just trying to emphasize that we should be careful we don't turn this into the KWhit vs. whomever game, or something like that, as WW games sometimes tend to devolve into games focused around an interaction between just a few players.

On that note, I'm not going to resist the popular urge, consensus is fun:

VOTE ELECT KWHIT

I'm not sure this is really a safe opinion to have as a villager in a WW game, no matter how much you want to instinctively trust your friends.

I see what you're saying, and I agree. I think we need to arrest some of the quiet ones today. Alanus Teeus will do what he thinks best, but I wonder what will happen with the other arrest.

st.cronin - what's the story on the other consul position?

He posted this last night:

I don't know what he means by "The Tribune." Does that mean that we will collectively vote for who's arrested today?

Everybody here is my friend Tyrith. Including you!

I find it amusing we worried about *that* at this point and basically totally ignoring the slow progression to off me.

You're my buddy too, you give me nice casual Magic articles to read ;)

Give me evidence that we should let you live and I will gladly take my vote off. However, we can't start figuring out what's going on without racking up some sort of body count, and our lack of information so far is extreme enough that I'm going to move away from my typical let's-not-murder-randoms stance for today. You are the unfortunate victim of circumstance, it seems.

It appears that I am headed toward a position of power. I know it's early and things could change, but I want to go ahead and get this out there in case people are going to be away for part/most of the day.

I am currently loyal to Rome. I welcome a seer scan to prove it. However, this makes me a prime target to be converted (if such a thing exists). If anyone has the power or service to keep this from happening, it might make sense to provide this to me to thwart the attack. I would welcome someone sharing their bodyguard with me (as I am too poor at the present time to hire one myself).

Hopefully, just my asking for this is enough to scare off the Tarquins.

Wern't you a bad guy in that game? :)

If I had any, I would.

And it's the exact attitude of inevitability that I don't think we can use this game. You realize how utterly easy the traitors will have it if we rely on the old attitude of 'whelp, someone has to die, axe him' in this game? We can ONLY have a maximum of 2 people up for execution. Now, imagine the traitors manage to get a Consul in power. We keep knocking people off as a matter of course, doing their job for them, as we only can put our votes on one of two people (one of one today).

As for the conversation about who is more likely a wolf, the quiet players or the loud and out front players, I find many different people's comments confusing a bit to me and perhaps even to the point of having some agenda behind them.

Its a very easy point of reference that is true in every game.

Its very unusual for all of the wolves to be loud or all of them to be quiet. Most often you have 1 or a couple of louder, out front wolves helping drive conversation in certain directions. You also usually have 1 or a couple of wolves who hide in the shadows and avoid attention. This means you can't say people who are quiet are wolves, or people who are loud or out front are wolves.

Villagers who are quiet = don't contribute much, and if lynched less likely to be lynching people who will help you win.

Wolves who are quiet = if you lynch them, it helps remove someone who could do alot of harm behind the scenes without drawing much suspicion.

Villagers who are noisy = Usually draw alot of attention on themselves, often end up costing the village time in lynching good villagers who just were overeager. Usually later in the game will be active and involved in conversation.

Wolves who are noisy = Lynching them usually helps you put together some pieces as they often say alot during the game, and you can go off of what they say (or perhaps dont say) to determine your next steps.


So, thats the reasoning behind my conversation earlier with Narcizo about who we think are the quieter wolves are. I'll probably go for someone whom I don't find contributing much right now today with my arrest, however by no means do I think that means someone making a bold in your face play isn't a wolf. Also I don't necessarily feel post count = quiet or not either. Some people talk alot but say very little.

Later on, yes. But then we'll have a clue, and we can't really start to develop a clue without doing something. I mean, I see your point, and I wouldn't recommend blindly killing people all the way down the road, but right now, there are other problems that feel like my hand is forced. Which is too bad, because I don't really want to kill you, you're fun to have around.

So let's make it real simple.

Unless you like killing a villager. Don't.

In which game. The city? Nope. The sheffir and the town? No. i've seen people chjoose not to vote for someone to power just because, and it was silly on multiple occasions when I wasn't the bad guy.

Wish I could take your word on that.

Now I admit this is self serving, but while I agree with Alan's analysis, I only agree with it after Day 3 or 4. For the first few days lynching vocal players can have game long ill effects.

Come now. If I'm a traitor, would I have gone out suing someone else, claiming totally openly that it's for nothing more than personal gain. Look at the size of this game and tell me it won't be ungodly easy early on for the wolves to kick back, throw a line in here and there, and hide. If I was a bad guy, why on earth would I bother making so many seemingly suspicious moves in a game this huge.

You gain nothing today but a dead villager. You gain almost nothing in voting history because you can't vote for anyone else. You lose one of the weathier citizens who can keep key services away from bad guys.

this is true fellow Senator...I trust Kayus Whitus completely and I also believe my suit against him will confirm that he is loyal to the Republic.

still catching up. one page back on last night/this morning's stuff


i think saldana may be onto something about the tarqs having a victory condition for filling both the consulships. think about it in the context of the backstory of the game and it makes a lot of sense hmm?

i'd be open to a consulship. i am tending to be around plenty.

VOTE TOSS COFFEE WARLORD OFF THE ROCK

just because we need some more info. I'd like to see anyone who votes not to toss him off the cliff offer a reasoning too, not just miss the vote.

given wolves could hide in the tossing him off the rock group also (and indeed likely are), but i'd like to see everyone offer reasoning. it at least will give us something to analyze.

I dont think my response, or the comment from you that I quoted referred to the city, the sherrif and the town or anything along those lines.

You made a comment that you trusted kwhit in the survivor game, and I asked wern't you a bad guy in that game? I found that more funny then anything at the time, but not sure why you are avoiding answering it.

Elect Kayus Whitus to Counsul

Vote Coffeus Warlordus Innocent

Hrm. There is definately some logic here...I don't know anymore.

Damn.

I have been thinking about this one, as I caught something in one of CW's posts that makes me feel pretty good that he is loyal, but I did not want to make myself look bad by switching my vote from him. He also makes a sound point about eliminating a wealthy player from the game, which would potentially allow less wealthy players with ill intentions to win services.

I will disclose, in case anyone questions my motives, professionally, that I have not yet been retained by anyone. To be even more clear, CW has not hired me and I am not changing my vote because he is my client.

Unvote CW Guilty

Vote CW Innocent

I am torn because I would like (and I think we need) to know more about the dynamics of the game, but I think CW is loyal to the Republic and that his death will not benefit us more than his life will.

I thought st.cronin said somewhere that the lawyers wouldn't know they were hired until after the fact...

Or was I dreaming that?

I was pretty sure that cronin said lawyers won't know if their services were hired until the end of the day. So you wouldn't know yet Swaggs.

Also I am going out on a limb here but guessing that there are some wealthy traitors and some less wealthy traitors.

I don't like looking at a Consulship for anyone who has not already cast their vote on CW. I don't like putting Chief Rum in charge of arresting people. He is too erratic and does not gain input from others, at least not in the Tombstone game.

I do think we need to lynch, as we likely cannot win without lynching and waiting puts the odds in favor of the wolves. I can't imagine st.cronin would have a game where the wolves cannot kill, he's just too traditional in his outlook on how WW should be. So based on odds of victory in favor of us loyal to the Republic:

VOTE TO LYNCH COFFEUS WARLORDUS

For Cosulship, I can go with BK, he is likely to listen to the input of others. I would also favor hoopsguy at this point if he runs. I will also throw myself in the ring. I am low in the wealth area and have no special abilities. Basically, I have nothing to lose in the post, so what the heck.

VOTE BARKEEPUS VALERIUS FORTYNINEUS FOR CONSUL

VOTE GRAMMATICUS ATTICUS FOR CONSUL