Derrick Rose becomes the first Chicago Bull to make the All-Star team since Michael Jordan.

Glad Rondo made it as well, absolutely deserved it.

Im suprised this is Deron's 1st. Hes been a stud for 3 years.

David Lee is underrated. Its sad that AI took his spot.

lol...the coaches are as bad at picking these as the fans.

A year ago, who thought we'd see Zach Randolph in an all-star game in 2010?

What a great turnaround from Orlando, down 16 at one point but they beat Boston by 2. Howard had a number of nice buckets against Perkins who does such a good job defending him, he had that hook shot going tonight. Lewis had some big buckets including the game winner, maybe this will be the start of him playing like he can more consistently, he's had a bad year, the suspension at the start of the season might be one cause, maybe he misses Turkoglu as well, I dunno. van Gundy said that Gortat and Howard aren't often effective together but it worked great in the fourth quarter tonight.

The strange/worrying thing is that the fourth quarter comeback took place with Williams and Redick in the backcourt for most of the time, Carter had another bad night and Nelson was iffy other than a good scoring run early on. Carter is so frustrating to watch sometimes, forcing bad shots and turning the ball over in such a way that it seems like he's not even paying attention.

It was good to see them get a win against Boston after getting their asses kicked on Christmas, with only four legitimate teams in the East there's a decent chance these two teams will face each other in the playoffs.

I really don't like Carter, and there aren't many athletes I vocally hate. Orlando should just cut him and let him rot in free agency.

how so ? I don´t see any obvious screwups here. People that didn´t see him play much (he´s on the Grizzlies, so that´s likely the majority ...) will bitch about Randolph, but the guy has not only had an amazing individual season but has really shown a new team-quality. Can´t do much about him being flatfooted and not exactly destined to be a good defender, but ran the floor, rotated, moved the ball.

Maybe Gasol over Kaman is dubious in terms of rewarding the right guy, but from a coaches standpoint ? Gasol is easily a better player than Kaman, numbers don´t tell the story.
Kaman should have gone because of the way he plays (hard, every night) and produces (admirable) and because he has the "better" season by virtue of playing way more games.
But if it´s a question of who is the better player, that´s Gasol quite easily.

Lee over Horford maybe ? Possibly, but Horford has a highly underrated impact on a really good team.
Or over Pierce ? Yeah, possibly. But definitely not an unquestionable truth o anything ...

Roy took some heat for coasting, but has quetly led a heavily depleted Portland squad to a very respectable record.

Billups over Paul and Williams ? Of course Chauncey has turned his play around and has been amazing, but those 2 guys have been just that as well.

Rondo has been the best player for the Celtics for long stretches and now that the numbers measure up with his impact he is an obvious choice.

My quibble was with leaving Kaman off, so I'll respond to that. Kaman should have been in before Gasol and Randolph (either one).

All Star is not about "better player" (and I don't disagree that Gasol is better, he's a terrific talent). All Star is about who is having the better season.

Gasol actually rates slightly higher than Kaman in most averages this season, better FG%, rebounding average (although Kaman's is hurt a bit playing next to the human vacuum Camby), blocks and assists. Kaman's primary edge right now is scoring. My issue with Gasol over Kaman is that Gasol has missed some significant stretches of the season so far, and IMO, the player who has been there for most of the team's games, in a close comparison, should get the nod over someone who has missed 12-15 games or whatever it is.

Randolph, outside of higher rebounding average, simply is just not having as good of a year as Kaman statistically, and he is much worse than Kaman, defensively. Technically, he got in as a PF, I would guess, but this is an All Star team starting a PF as a C (Stoudemire), and besides, Nowitzki is the obvious "backup PF"--Randolph was clearly was one, if not the, last addition to the team.

Kaman is not only a better player having a better year, he is more or less the lynch pin to the Clippers' offense, as much of the team's offense operates out of the Baron Davis-Kaman inside-outside game. Kaman has essentially morphed into the role Elton Brand had three years ago, expanding his range to consistent 15 footers, and still displaying the various moves he has developed in the post for years. He has also been taking a lot more "money shots", showing confidence in taking a lead role in the team's offense. The Clippers, outside of occasional crapping the bed nights like last night with the Nets, are much better and more consistent this year, and that's despite getting nothing from Blake Griffin and having injury issues with Eric Gordon. Reason? A combination of a more motivated Baron Davis and Kaman elevating his game.

He deserves to be there. The NBA coaches are a joke for putting Randolph (at the very least) there over Kaman.

Kaman was also jobbed two years ago for a spot, although as it turns out, he hurt himself just before the break anyway and would not have been able to play.

Actually, he is having a better year statistically :confused: Other than blocks he´s (a little) better in just about every statistical category. Started the year a little slower, but by now it looks like this :

Kaman : 20.2 PPG / 9.1 RPG / 1.3 BPG / 1.8 APG / 3.0 TOPG / 50% FG / 75% FT
Randolph : 21.0 PPG / 11.6 RPG / 0.5 BPG / 2.1 APG / 2.2 TOPG / 50% FG / 80% FT

"advanced" stats :

Kaman : 20.7 PER / 19.9 Opp PER / +- 6.3 / 1.20 PPS
Randolph : 24.8 PER / 18.8 Opp PER / +- 7.3 / 1.26 PPS

minutes are pretty much a wash, randolph plays 40 seconds more a night.


And have you seen him play ? He is immensely important to memphis offensively and actually doesn´t hurt them defensively.

Basically your whole "the Clippers are better because of a great Kaman" could pass for randolph and the Grizzlies as well.

Kaman would have been highly deserving, no question about it. But so is Randolph. Sometimes not all players deserving find a spot.
Just because he has a bad image doesn´t change the fact his play has been amazing and helps the grizzlies a whole lot.


the grizzlies coach should be in the running for COTY as well, having the guts to put iverson on the bench (you can bet the front office and ownership wasn´t happy about that one) and getting Randolph to play up to his talent and give a crap on top of it, getting by with virtually no depth (no injuries help) outside of the starting 5, turn a season around with a team and association that is used to loosing, balancing 4 very good offensive options.
Hell of a job.

You can make a case for both but I do think Randolph is one of the better stories of the year. A guy who was essentially a black hole offensively has turned into a vital cog for the Memphis team. I think with how close they are, you have to give the nod to the guy who has his team in the playoffs right now. Kaman's stats are also not that impressive when you dig deeper. His true shooting percentage is actually pretty weak for a big man. A solid player but just short of an All-Star in my book. I'd actually give Marc Gasol the nod ahead of Kaman.

In the East, I don't see how Jamison is not on the team and it's surprising that Josh Smith is the odd man out in Atlanta considering he's the best player on that team.

Thanks for the well thought response, whomario. I still believe Kaman is every much as deserving of the spot, and we can both agree that it's close.

BTW, Randolph's stats aren't much better than...last year when he was with the Clippers. Obviously, I have seen him play (and come on, man, you should know that, you know I'm a Clippers fan, surprised you threw out all that stuff, and yet you didn't carp to the fact that, of course, I will have seen Randolph play and a LOT).

Like said, Kaman definitely could have easily gone over Randolph or Gasol, no question about it. He also should be in the running for MIP, if not the front runner there with a guy like david Lee (i really apreciate it when players with a handfull of seasons make another step in their development)

Of course i know you are a Clippers Fan and that´s pretty much what i expected as a reponse though, honestly ;) Let me verify : Have you seen him play this season ?
That´s my main point, Randolph this year plays extremely different than ever before for whatever reasons (hitting his head, having an epiphany, being blackmailed to play teambasketball by guys holding his weed-stock as a hostage). Haven´t seen him play as much as you last year, but with league pass online propably 6,7 times and 6,7 times this year allready (not even that much of a Grizzlies follower, they just happened to play a lot of teams i wanted to see those days/nights).
It´s day and night.
No more relentless chucking (well, at leats not consistently ;) ), no more coasting back to D, no more quitting on offensive screens to have a better chance at the offensive rebound, no more holding the ball too long too often.

Does that make the lackluster and erratic efforts he had with the Clippers and Knicks (in terms of team play) any better ? Hell no.
But still, this season he´s been a different player for whatever reasons and solely based on this season has been an All Star Calibre player.
Wouldn´t at all be suprised if over the summer he hits his head again and by this time of the year next season i´ll be commenting on him having just picked up a suspension for drug violations after just being cleared from having beaten up a teammate a week before and having gone straight into "Antoine Walker Mode" on the court (which would be Randolph usual lack of defense and chucking times 3). But this season ? All Star.

And yeah, we can agree that Kaman could have been there as well and no one would have had a right to object.

Speaking of the old Zach Randolph.

One of the most bizzare transformations I've ever seen. They guy is playing defense, rebounding, passing. . . it's simply crazy to watch.

I had ONE major grip with this years selections:

Where in the world is Josh Smith? Two guys on his team who aren't better players than he is are on the team. (and I'm a Joe Johnson and Al Horford fan)

The guy has been amazing this year. If you have watched more than one Hawks game and do not think he's the best player on the team and one of the top 12 in the East, I'm not sure we can be friends. (j/k)

That was a screw job. I don't have an issue with Randolph over Kaman, I think it was the right call.

A humorous and accurate summation of just how poorly Vince Carter played last night: ESPN TrueHoop blog

At least we have JJ Redick.

That's just awesome writing.

Another nice win for Orlando tonight, beating the Hawks easily. Howard with a 31-19-3 night. Redick continues to be our best option at shooting guard, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I'm not quite all the way on the Vince Carter hate train (maintaining some hope because I'm a deluded optimist kind of fan) but I've at least gone ahead and paid for my boarding pass.

Andre Miller scoring 52 points in one night is remarkable.

especially after averaging 5 in his last 3 games, it´s not like the guy was on a hot streak. Plus, make sure to watch the highlights somewhere for his running hook over Marion to send it into OT !

Batum played some very good defense on Dirk.

Redick has been a revelation this season, i am pretty happy for him too.

Gerald Wallace with 38/11, whoa :eek: Amazing season by him.

pretty good game going on between the Celtics and Lakers. Really match up very interestingly and would make for a great finals again if it were to happen.

Fisher shouldn´t be starting at this point of his career...

Rondo playing great so far, Gasol/Bynum having their way inside.

Rondo : It´s stunning how a guy with that little shooting ability can play so good. Every team is keying to the pass and gives him space, still he makes so many things happen. Such great court vision and passing technique. Plus he´s also one of the better players in the league moving without the ball, for a PG that is averaging nearly 10 APG that´s a pretty unique quality.

ugh

what a shot by Bryant ...

Heh

How bout them Clippers.

Woulda been tough to win in Cleveland even with Kaman and Griffin and Telfair. Without them and in the middle of a tough East Coast trip? Fuggedaboutit. Not really the time to judge the Clips as a team.

Oh, I know.

Him?

He's not bad. And when losing him means you have to sign a D-League guy to be your backup PG, that's trouble.

Interesting. Why make the comment then? I guess I shoulda said something when the Cavs escaped an even more injury riddled Clips team a couple weeks ago in LA, a game they shoulda lost.

Eh, just wondering how you give up 46 points in a quarter more than anything. West coming east, those teams have it rough especially during the end of a trip.

I actually did not realize you were missing so many rotation players.

Cool deal. Actually, I missed that particular quarter and found out what happened-- the Cavs hit three pointers on seven straight possessions! I mean, damn. Not sure what you can do about that. When a team's that hot, what do you do, tackle them as they try to shoot? Very impressive.

The ending score doesn't show it, but the Clips actually got the score back down from 30 all the way to low 10's, which isn't bad as far as moral victories go after getting down that much.

Chief Rum being defensive about Clippers basketball?

Just be happy they actually have light at the end of the tunnel, unlike my Warriors.

so, Kevin Durant... After another ridiculous scoring game (45 points on 16-21 shooting) : In his last 21 games he never once scored less than 25 (16 times 30+), shooting 54/52/87 in that stretch, going to the line nearly 11 times a game.
If he ever gets a decent feel for reading double teams and traps than he´s going to be unstoppable.

Vince Carter´s last 14 games : 9/3/2 on 28% shooting in 27 MPG, what the hell happened after new years ? He wasn´t particularly effective early in the season, but still dropped numbers along the tune of 19/5/4 on 40%in november and december :confused:
He was out a couple games, maybe a more serious lingering issue ? :confused:


Chris Paul is out at least a month, arthrospic surgery on his knee. I think it´s safe to say that this is it for the Hornets in terms of reaching the playoffs.
No5 San Antonio and No 11 Houston still only 2 wins apart.

meanwhile in the East No9 Milwaukee allready 3 and New York at 10 is 6 game back.

Boston has lost 11 of their last 17 games.

Yeah, he's a crybaby pussy.

Speaking of the 46 by the Cavs in the 1st quarter, I just saw the highlights and all I can say is wow.

Edit: Never mind, that was the Cavs as a team that shot 11 of 13. I thought it was LeBron alone who shot that at first.

Collison had a good game the other night for the Nornets

Celtics are on a nasty skid. They really shoulda pulled out yesterday.

Shitty news on Paul. One of my favorite players to watch. I'm guessing this means they'll try and ship West out of town as soon as possible.

What did you think of ESPN's column about how the Celtics should trade Ray Allen for something like Hinrich/Miller or Hinrich/Tyrus Thomas.

I didn't see it yet. Interesting idea. Then again, I haven't watched much at all so far this year - is Allen playing poorly? Is his 3PT% way down? Because he's gone on record as saying he wants to come back next year at a reduced price - so keeping him might not be the worst thing, if he can still shoot.

Hinrich is an interesting guy - not sure how well he ends up playing off-the-ball though? Because you cannot take the ball out of Rondo's hands...his mobility and speed is what creates the room for the other guys to get easy baskets. Tyrus Thomas seems to be a load of poop from what I've seen, and I'm not interested. Brad Miller is getting old and would end up on the bench behind Perkins. Not sure about salaries on those guys and cap-space though.

Still pretty dern good. I think LeBron himself made 4 of them.

The Hornets are 5-4 this year with Paul out and Collison starting, including wins over Phoenix, Atlanta, and at Memphis to snap their 11-game home winning streak. I don't think they can hold up for those competitive 5-8 slots in the West over the long term without Paul, but the Hornets really nailed the draft last year between Collison and Marcus Thornton. You can't ask for much more out of the 21st and 43rd picks in an NBA draft.

I hate losing Paul but if there was a year for him to get hurt, this is it. This was always a "just get through it" season while we're waiting for Peja's and Mo Pete's horrible contracts to become expiring contracts.

pretty good off the ball. No coincidence he pops up as a potential upgrade at PG for the Lakers about twice a season.

For Allen his long range shooting actually is down to just 34%, couldn´t tell from the 6,7 games i saw so far.
His scoring inside the arc has been pretty much consistent with last couple of years and he´s still a 16 PPG guy and still a pretty good defensive player.

But if you get Hinrich for Allen you loose your only really viable option to play 35 minutes at SG defending a guy like Kobe, Joe Johnson or (if he finds his form) Carter and contribute offensively at the same time. Even when his shot doesn´t fall, he forces people to work to guard him.
Maybe Tony Allen but he can´t shoot from deep at all, same goes for Marquis Daniels who i would´t trust as a starter as well.

they´d upgrade their bench but weaken their starting SG spot.

Thomas actually might work with the Celtics ...

Well Hinrich had a real slow start shooting wise but has picked it up of late since being given the starting SG spot. He's not as prolific a scorer as Allen, but is a much better defender and can even play some point when Rondo is on the bench. He's just a good all-around player who plays hard and has the ability to really shut down a threat from time to time (he has given Wade fits over the years).

Tyrus is actually a really interesting option for you. He's got a ton of raw talent and he's a fantastic shot blocker. He also can crash the offensive boards hard where you guys get killed. He runs the floor well, plays above the rim, and I think would really play well with a good passer like Rondo. He's frustrating at times because he can have a monster game, block 6 shots and then the next night seemingly look completely out of sync. But with a veteran team where he'd know his role, I think he could be a real helpful player. Not to mention he is still restricted I believe and you'd have a chance to keep him as a future PF.

Miller is a big guy who can hit outside shots and bang a few bodies around. Basically just gives you some depth and scoring from a big man. He's actually been pretty vital in the Bulls turnaround this month.

I think defense is the bigger issue when you look at potential playoff matchups. Allen has lost a step defensively and Hinrich is a major upgrade on that side of the ball. Boston has shown they can't beat Atlanta without someone who can guard Joe Johnson and Wade and Carter are also potential matchups. I just don't think the Celtics can make the finals when opposing backcourts can run circles around Allen and Rondo. They need a fix somewhere and with Allen not being the perennial scorer he once was, it could make sense.

Allen is not terrible defensively, and Rondo is excellent.

i guess thomas also might benefit (a la perkins) from Rondo drawing defenders and getting him easy buckets in the paint...

I still believe Rondo's defense is overated. He gets steals and makes plays but he gambles a ton and gives up a lot of easy baskets. I haven't watched them a ton but when the Bulls have played them, Rose was able to basically do whatever he wanted to against Rondo.

i heart ray-ray though. by all accounts he's a super class-act, and he's also living here in wellesley (as is rasheed wallace...whose son is in school with my brother apparently)

:lol:

no way. not to say he couldn't improve on learning when to gamble successfully (which he will as he gets older), but it's not overrated

I don't see the Celtics adding anything this year except a role player. They're going to sink or swin with this group this year, and then start to rebuild in the off-season.

And I can't imagine a major intra-conference trade between playoff teams (that might very meet in the 1st round)

Well if you really want to talk about the Celtics problem, it's that Rasheed sucks this year. They should really start cutting back on his minutes even more.

There were some people calling him defensive player of the year.

And that would be a great spot for a role player, to get some of those minutes.

okay - i suppose if you take it to THAT extreme it's overrated yeah

aka "the injured marquis daniels"

*shurg*

I'll believe my own eyes over 82 games, as well as most of the people paid to analyze this stuff for a living, over your impression of a series.

Bulls aren't really playing for this season. They need to free up cap room to sign a max contract in the offseason.

That he's defensive player of the year?

No, you said that in the playoffs people would run circles around him. I never brought up POY at all.

i'm not sure anyone really thinks he's DPOY at this point, aside from whatever solo-nutjob you heard advancing that theory. i think we all just believe he's above average defensively

He's probably referring to Hollinger (burgeoning basketball sabremetrician) who has been a big Rondo fan.

NBA: Midseason award winners - ESPN

kind of a stretch to say that he's being mentioned as DPOY candidate from that where he's given an "honorable mention" :confused:

although the celtics are 10pts better defensively with him on the floor than off, so he's no slouch, that's for sure!

Ok Celtics fans, I know I read somewhere about Rondo being mentioned for DPOY and I don't have Insider, so it couldn't have been that article linked. So it's not just one or two nut jobs, but it probably was on ESPN.com as well.

well in that article varejao makes (roughly) 11ppg difference for the Cavs with his defense, and Rondo is at 10ppg difference for the Celtics, so I guess it's not some horribly massive stretch.

Because playoff teams have. They can't stop Atlanta when Crawford and Johnson are on the court at the same time. The teams that have beaten them the last month have done it with strong guard play.

Rondo is a good defender when he is matched up against true point guards who aren't offensive threats. He can't guard a shooting guard at all. Allen has shown he can't either. So when they go against a team with a strong backcourt, they are going to get burnt.

It wasn't a stab at Rondo but more at Allen. Rondo is simply limited in who he can defend due to his size. He just can't go up against Joe Johnson or Dwayne Wade. He's going to have trouble against scoring point guards like Jamal Crawford and Derrick Rose. So when the Celtics play teams like that, they need someone on the court who can defend those players and Rondo is not the guy.

At what point do we decide that he's in the upper echelon of the league? Someone at work said he's now a top 5 player (after LeBron, Kobe, Wade, and Carmelo). And we started thinking about that statement. I think it's still a little too early to say that, but we at least started thinking about it.

SI

Scoring wise he is in the upper echelon. I'd put him up there with anyone besides Kobe and Lebron. He is turnover prone and needs to improve defensively. But as for the upper echelon, I do think he needs a solid playoff series or two before you can make that statement.

he's certainly top 10. not sure who you put after the "big 4" (although tbh i don't know that you include wade in there anymore). duncan? dirk? nash? cp3?

Welcome to Versus!

Wade is definitely in there. He's just got a horseshit team.

I agree with what has been said : Top 10, 8, 15 whatever. That he is allready. People i´d take over him right now (and assuming it´s for 1 season only) are James, Paul, Kobe, Wade, Anthony and maybe with the right situations Nash on the perimeter and Duncan and Nowitzki up front.

I think the only reasons why people don´t mention his name that often is 1) he plays for the freaking Thunder, 2) he has so much potential that it´s hard to recognize how great he is allready.
And 3) A guy with that poor passing ability and this suporting cast (which is great in it´s way, but that way isn´t offense) shouldn´t average 30 and have his team solidly over .500

A guy like that should put up those numbers on a .300 team. So people kind of still see "great scoring, bad turnovers, can´t win that way"
That won´t change until they really reached the POs and scraped their way to a win or 2 against the upper seed behind Durant´s scoring.

Yet they do. It´s basically Kobe meets supporting Cast (c.a. 2006) 2.0 only with a supporting Cast that actually is talented and not just scrappy and actually does things other than make room for Bryant.
It´s rare to see this clear of a No1 option and still have the other 4 players be active on both ends.

I f.e. don´t see that with the Heat right now. Yes, it´s a bad supporting cast and it´s not Wade´s fault, but still. The Heat players are content just strolling along (especially the perimeter people), while the Thunder all have their "thing" they do on the court. Actually that´s propably nothing that has to do with Durant, just thought i´d mention that random observation ;)

As for the potential : He still has quite a few flaws even on offense that it´s pretty remarkable how could he allready is. And it´s not like he´s getting by on natural ability (yes, he´s a gifted athlete but far from a dominating one at the SF spot)
I could easily see him destroy some poor team scoring 40 a game over a playoff series in a few years.


to summarise : I really, really like seeing him play :)

can´t help but hope for a hollywood-like comeback this season, even though my brain says "next season is definitely the better idea" and i know from own experience that taking the boot off is just the very first small step.

Still, gives me a warm feeling seeing him on a court, if only for Free Throws :)

You would include Dwight Howard correct?

Durant reminds me a lot of Dirk. A great scorer and top 10 player but not as diverse as some of the other top 10 players.

Why is anyone talking about giving Amare a max contract deal anyway/

It is the NBA, where Erik Dampier makes what, 12 mil this year?

That is my point. I don't believe there is any system that will prevent NBA GMs from screwing up their own cap except the pending free agency of Lebron, D-Wade, etc. The current max contracts in the league actually look decent right now. The only ones that are real head scratchers IMO are Tracy McGraddy, Jermaine O'Neal, and Michael Redd. When the CBA was signed, the owners KNEW and bragged that only the very best players would make top dollar in the league. The owners need to exercise some self control.

Why? Well, he's 27 years old. He averages over 20 points a game on 55% shooting. Just two seasons ago he averaged over 25 points a game on 59% shooting. He's a 6'10", 250 pound center who does all of that and hits his FT at 75-80% to boot. I know his defense sucks. I know he's injury prone. I know he has had attitude problems. But if you are an NBA team who either A) Needs one more piece to put you over the top or B) a crappy team who puts people in the seats. . . you give Amare a max deal.

Being a Denver fan is fun when you look at contracts. People thought Nene was vastly overpaid and called him one of the worst contracts in the game 2 years ago. People said/say the same about Kenyon Martin. (and they have no idea what Kenyon can do defensively, he's been the unsung hero of the team this season)

When it comes to the NBA, you have to keep in mind 3 things

1) You can't win without superstars. (Amare may not be in Lebron or Kobe's class, he's certainly as good as Pau Gasol on the offensive end. (I know, defense is a part of the game, but defense is usually about effort, bad defensive players can become good ones later in their careers.) Superstars draw more fouls, get you more respect from the refs and keep your uber star from getting mugged for 48 minutes in the playoffs.

2) If you don't get one of the top 5 picks, you don't have much of a shot at getting a superstar.

3) If you are building a team full of youngsters, you have a one or two year window to make your big signing. If you don't make your signing, when you reup your own guys, you'll be over the cap and out of contention for better players. You're better off throwing the money and getting an asset than you are holding onto it and hoping all of your kids develop. OKC will face this problem in a couple of years. They'll need one guy to put them over the top, a secondary player to Durant, but they'll have to hope he's on the market when they hit their window. If he isn't, they'll sign a guy like Andre Miller (see Portland) or Kenyon Martin (see Denver) and hope for the best.

He's still not max contract quality. When I think of max contract, I think of superstar who can lead a team. He is maybe a #2 on a good team (although he can't even do that right now). He puts up good numbers offensively, but he's a flawed player. He's horrific defensively and can't figure out the basics of defending a pick & roll. He's a horrible passer which makes him a black hole once the ball is fed to him. And he turns the ball over too much. If Amare is so great, there should be no reason the Suns wouldn't be one of the top teams in the West considering they have a superstar PG.

I think he'd be a great compliment to a guy like Lebron and feel that is a player they should have targeted in the offseason. I'd also love to see Miami take a swipe at him and see how he pairs with Wade. But there is no way he should be considered a max contract player and any team that does give him one is going to straddle themselves with a .500 team for the next half decade.

To be fair, I believe TMac, Jermaine, and Michael Redd were basically franchise players when their contracts were signed.

I agree about the self control and I do think teams have gotten better at it. The problem still is that a lot of teams are losing a lot of money. 12 teams lost money last year and the number is expected to rise this year. It isn't the have-nots losing money either but teams like Portland (who lost $20 million) who draw great attendance numbers and were a playoff team. If they can't make a profit now, they'll never be able to.

The difference in this negotiation and MLB is the players can't hold out for long and the owners know it. Too many of these players live paycheck to paycheck and have huge commitments. Whether it be big homes or an entourage and lifestyle to support. They just don't have the leverage the owners have and the owners are going to make sure they make a profit even if it means shutting down for an entire season.

I'll give you T-Mac and maybe Jermaine O'Neal. But Michael Redd was never a franchise player in my opinion. A guy who could be a #2 on a great team but never a guy I could see leading a franchise deep into the playoffs.

random nightly observations :

Nicholas Batum looks amazing for the Blazers, one of those cases where a summer with a national team has a positive effect. Way more assertive and more collected offensively.
Suprising how quick he´s offering this type of play after coming back from injury, so maybe there´s even more to come :) in 5 games only 1 bad offensive game and there he played great defense on Nowitzki in the 4th and OT.

Robin Lopez looks kinda good for the Suns, scores the ball very efficiently and plays ok defense (albeit still a bit slow to rotate on that end)

Steve Nash will very likely end up with yet another 50/40/90 season, such an amzaing shooter. a scrappy guard shooting 50+% FG (and 40% from 3) in 6 consecutive seasons is pretty remarkable, no matter what the system.

Phoenix now won 3 including back to back road wins in a row and at 29-21 look like a decent bet for the playoffs at least again. Nash finally a string with low TO numbers, actually more than that with 39 assists and only 3 TOs in those 3 games.

Utah is on a roll winning 10 of their last 11. Millsap filling in as starter for Boozer : 32/14 with 7 assists and 25/9 with 4 blocks shooting 11/17 and 10/16

Memphis beats the Lakers, Gasol/Randolph with a great game against the Lakers frontline.
Bryant is now the Lakers leading scorer over Jerry West.

i must be missing something - an even number of fouls and foul shots and yet the wizards are complaining?

not saying he has a point, but i´m pretty sure you´ll agree that "equal fouls and FTs = equally called game" doesn´t really hold true ;)
On the other hand "one team has way more FTs = they have been favoured" is just as bogus.

If one team needs to foul more and the other team forces them to foul than obviously there will be a discrepancy.

He does have a point about Garnett´s illegal screen though, that´s sometimes mind boggling to watch him lift his feet off the ground or move his whole upper body and not be called for it. Then again, most star bigs get away with a lot of moving screens.

of course...i was thinking of putting that in my original post...that an equal number of foul shots doesn't automatically mean an equally called game.

as far as garnett's screens - i view it as just another case of "star treatment" - just like some of the fouls that get called on other stars

whomario,

How could you forget Denver's impressive win over the Tyreke Evansless Kings?

Oh, that's right, it wasn't impressive. It was a complete joke. At least they got the win. Melo still out. Denver has won 10 out of 11 as well. Next three will be Suns at home, Lakers on the road and Utah on the road (back to back) Denver already has the season series against Utah with a 3-0 record against them this year. See, Denver plays good against the top teams in the league. They suck ass against the below average teams in the league. It's so damned frustrating.

I don't think you are reading what I said.

OK, so he'd be a good fit in Miami and Cleveland. He'd also be a great fit for any sub .500 club who doesn't plan on contending for 3 or 4 years and wants to put fans in the seats.

So how are Miami and Cleveland going to get Amare exactly? They are going to have to pay the man, because if they don't, someone else will.

And giving Amare the max doesn't ensure you'll be .500 for the next half decade. Shaq isn't a max player right now, Cleveland is doing OK. Ray Allen isn't a max player (and wasn't in either of the last two years for that matter) and the Celtics did just fine. Kenyon Martin isn't a franchise player and the Nuggets have won 2 division titles and averaged 48 wins in the 4 years before this one. They are on pace for over 50 wins and another division title this year.

It all depends on the surrounding cast. If you make Redd a max player and don't surround him with anything thinking he's going to lead you deep into the playoffs by himself? Wrong. If you think Amare could do it? Wrong again.

But if you think he could be the second fiddle star who could lead you to the title, you have the money to do it and you know that if you don't pay him the max someone else will?

BTW, the Suns are constructed poorly this year. Their chance for a title fell apart when they dumped Joe Johnson and Marion. Those were their two best defensive players during their big runs. Now? I'm sorry, you can't put what they are on Amare. That star PG you bring up can't play defense to save his life. Channing Frye is the center. A 37 year old plays SF. Their most explosive bench player has been hurt most of the year and is only playing 19 minutes a game and shooting horribly when he's been out on the court.

The fact is, this isn't a good team, with or without two superstars. You can't honestly look at the Suns roster and think: These guys have more talent than LA, Denver, San Antonio, Utah, Portland (even with the injuries), Oklahoma City or Dallas. I'm amazed they have the record they have right now. If they do trade Amare at the deadline, I expect that 29-21 record will take a huge drop. I know they've been slumping, but they've just won 3 in a row with Amare leading the scoring in all three. He is a star.

Is there really any doubt that Amare is going to get a max contract? He is probably the 4th most attractive Free agent this year after James, Wade, and Bosh.

Rainmaker is exaggerating his flaws and short changing all of his strengths.

Its hard to say that Amare is a terrible defender when the point guard cant stop penetration. Someone has to step up and stop the ball which leaves all the other defenders in a vulnerable situation.

Amar'e has to be worth 10M a year to someone. I do like the movement towards 2 year contract guarantees. I think it would help the game out quite a bit. No more 5 years of Larry Hughes type players. I'd imagine there will be guys that get more than they should up front. Now on the back end, you hopefully won't have to pay.

Of course he'll get a max contract. That doesn't mean he deserves it. If I'm a GM, there is a small set of players worthy of a max contract. Giving a guy that is not in the top 10 players in the league a max contract just means you end up being the Wizards for the next 6 years.

And I'm not exaggerating his flaws. He's horrible on defense and a horrible passer. Watch a Suns game and just follow him on defense. He's either not interested or just too confused. He's a great offensive player and fun to watch on that end of the court when he is going to the hoop, but those flaws are real.

but if you really believe that only a "top 10 guy in the league" deserves a max contract then you likely won't be able to keep your job long enough to prove yourself right because by virtue of doing that you will have slotted yourself out of most of the FA signings who you can make to bring you incremental wins.

not saying i don't agree with you (personally i do, and that's a huge source of my frustration with the nba...among other things), just saying that's the way it is

I agree with you. If Amare is that missing piece that takes a team over the top to championship contender, then by all means do it. It's still a bad contract technically speaking and will probably bite you on the tail end, but if you get a title out of it that doesn't matter. But there are probably only a handful of teams out there that can say adding Amare makes them a championship contender.

I'm just saying for the other teams in the league outside of those few that he can turn into a contender, it's bad to give him a max contract. The reason the Knicks ended up where they are is because they gave big contracts to marginal stars. You have to be very picky with who you give a max contract to in this league as it straddles what you can do with the rest of the roster.

That's the problem with NBA GMs. Too many get caught up in the system where they have to win 45-50 games each year instead of taking some lumps and building a real contender. It's that 5-15 range of NBA teams that is so hard to break out of.

Very true!

One last bit to add on the Amare debate. You are also paying for his potential. I agree that its beyond dumb to give a lot of players max contracts especially when a lot of them seemingly have limited upside. Amare still has a lot of untapped potential so while he may be worth only 7-8 million right now there is a decent enough chance to take the risk that the max contract may be a bargain down the road.

I think Amar'e has peaked as a player, and I would actually think he'll follow a career path similar to Chris Webber.

I just would not want to wager 5 or 6 years of huge money(15m plus) on a guy that will likely be garbage by the time he's 32.

In some ways, I can see both arguments making sense, and I think that I agree with both of them.

At the end of Amare's max contract, I think that Bill Simmons will be throwing around "the corpse of Amare Stoudemire and his expiring contract" in his hypothetical trade column like it is going out of style.

BUT, if you are a team that could drastically improve your chances of winning this year or next year with him as your second best player--and you can't get him for less than the Max--don't you still have to try and get him for the Max? To borrow another line from Simmons, isn't the point to win the title?

I agree that, for most every team in the league, giving Amare the max and hoping that he can lead you to a title as your main guy will get you nowhwere. But, he's got the talent to be the final piece of the puzzle for a few teams, and he is clearly available. For those teams, I can't see how the contract would be a mistake.

Bingo. I'm not saying I want MY team to give Amare the max. But all there needs to be is TWO teams who badly want Amare as either the final piece of the puzzle or as a guy to build their marketing around. I can think of at last 8 teams who would have that interest.

He's going to get bigtime money. The only question is how badly he wants to win and what market he wants to play in.

It looks like Paul Pierce may have a broken foot.....

And so begins the Bill Walker era.