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-   -   2008-2009 College Basketball Thread...... (http://forums.operationsports.com/fofc//showthread.php?t=68303)

JonInMiddleGA 02-14-2009 06:19 PM

Georgia beats Florida for their first SEC win of the season, dropping the Gators to fourth in the SEC East behind the tied trio of Kentucky, Tennessee, and South Carolina. Anybody have that outcome in their pre-season pool?

dawgfan 02-14-2009 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles (Post 1944720)
Arizona has won 7 in a row (including wins over UCLA and Washington) to go from "dead" to bubble team. Still a bit of a stretch, but who knows...

I don't think it's a big stretch - 2 more conference wins gets Arizona to 20 overall and 10 in the Pac-10. I think given their reputation, that'd be enough to secure them a tournament spot, especially if they notch another win against the UW or beat Cal.

Thanks to Arizona knocking off UCLA, Washington now has a 1.5 game lead in the Pac-10. I'm not sure if they'll be able to hang on, what with games remaining against the SoCal and Arizona schools and WSU, but they've got some cushion now. Would've been even better if Stanford hadn't collapsed in the 2nd half today and lost to Cal, but it was more important for the Bruins to lose.

MizzouRah 02-14-2009 07:04 PM

We owed you one Nebraska!!!

Tigercat 02-14-2009 08:34 PM

LSU beat a pesky Ole Miss team to improve to 9-1 in the SEC, 21-4 overall. Hopefully a few more NCAA writers/coaches pay attention to non-top 25 box scores and standings this week so the Tigers can get ranked.

Tasmin Mitchell is finally shining like the future all-star he was billed to be out of HS.

Wolfpack 02-14-2009 10:58 PM

With apologies to Digamma and JIMGA, it's nice to know that we're not the worst team in the ACC this year. However, the degree of difficulty gets exponentially harder in the next game as State pays Carolina a visit on Wednesday.

With that being said: Go to Hell, Carolina! Go State! :D

duckman 02-15-2009 12:14 AM

Blake Griffin was a beast yesterday against Texas Tech. He scored 40 points and pulled down 23 rebounds (third time that has happened in school history) as the Sooners cruised to 95-74 win. That win keeps them at 2 games up in the Big XII with just 5 games to go!

MrBug708 02-15-2009 03:33 AM

God love Ben Howland and what he's done for UCLA. But man needs to change things up once in a great half decade.

And God Bless Josh Shipp and DC and their three Final Fours, but maybe it's time for them to break ground in the NBA/Europe

sterlingice 02-15-2009 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckman (Post 1944864)
That win keeps them at 2 games up in the Big XII with just 5 games to go!


How do you figure? If we both win our games this week and then we beat you next Monday (and I don't think we have a great shot as we don't really have a way to stop or even contain Griffin)- we would effectively be in 1st place at 12-1 with you guys at 12-1 but we'd have the tiebreaker.

SI

duckman 02-15-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1945004)
How do you figure? If we both win our games this week and then we beat you next Monday (and I don't think we have a great shot as we don't really have a way to stop or even contain Griffin)- we would effectively be in 1st place at 12-1 with you guys at 12-1 but we'd have the tiebreaker.

SI


Sorry, they have 1.5 game lead according to the standings.

Kansas (as well as Mizzou and Texas) has as a good of a shot of beating OU as any elite team in the nation. OU is far from invincible.

Radii 02-15-2009 02:34 PM

Virginia, winless in their last 8 games, beats Clemson 85-81 in OT.


Yesterday, Maryland beat Virginia Tech, muddying up the middle of the ACC, as there are now 6 teams that are either 6-4, 6-5, or 5-5 in conference play. Maryland and Va Tech are both on the bubble, but IMO all this game did was make it more likely that neither get in. Bad loss for Va Tech,and Maryland's next 3 games are vs Clemson, UNC,and Duke.

DaddyTorgo 02-15-2009 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1945113)
Virginia, winless in their last 8 games, beats Clemson 85-81 in OT.


Yesterday, Maryland beat Virginia Tech, muddying up the middle of the ACC, as there are now 6 teams that are either 6-4, 6-5, or 5-5 in conference play. Maryland and Va Tech are both on the bubble, but IMO all this game did was make it more likely that neither get in. Bad loss for Va Tech,and Maryland's next 3 games are vs Clemson, UNC,and Duke.


gonna be cleared up tonight when BC beaks Duke. rest of the family is going, but not me

Radii 02-15-2009 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo (Post 1945119)
gonna be cleared up tonight when BC beaks Duke. rest of the family is going, but not me


I'll be watching, and rooting like hell for BC ;)

dawgfan 02-15-2009 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708 (Post 1944881)
God love Ben Howland and what he's done for UCLA. But man needs to change things up once in a great half decade.

And God Bless Josh Shipp and DC and their three Final Fours, but maybe it's time for them to break ground in the NBA/Europe

Man, tough crowd. Even UCLA will have dips in the road periodically (and it's pretty impressive when a dip in the road still includes an NCAA tourney seed of 5th or better and 20+ wins...)

dawgfan 02-15-2009 03:40 PM

Dola - I'm just happy UW's rise and UCLA's "dip" is happening now with top C prospect Josh Smith figuring out where he wants to go. The timing of both couldn't be any better for the UW...

Radii 02-15-2009 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 1945140)
Man, tough crowd. Even UCLA will have dips in the road periodically (and it's pretty impressive when a dip in the road still includes an NCAA tourney seed of 5th or better and 20+ wins...)


Don't forget that they also lost two players who were picked in the top 5 of the draft.

My expectations for my team are as high as anyone else's on this board. Any season that doesn't include either an ACC Tournament Championship or a Final Four bid are failed seasons. But the UCLA perspective is a truly unique one :) Its fun to watch for sure :D

Radii 02-15-2009 06:39 PM

Huge win for Boston College over Duke. This moves them to 7-5 in the ACC and 19-8 overall. Their RPI isn't great and they have some bad losses(Harvard...) but now have wins over UNC and Duke to help them out. 9-7 in conference play would probably give them a pretty good shot at getting into the tournament.

SackAttack 02-15-2009 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1945222)
Huge win for Boston College over Duke. This moves them to 7-5 in the ACC and 19-8 overall. Their RPI isn't great and they have some bad losses(Harvard...) but now have wins over UNC and Duke to help them out. 9-7 in conference play would probably give them a pretty good shot at getting into the tournament.


Duke is having a rough go of it lately, aren't they?

Radii 02-15-2009 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack (Post 1945227)
Duke is having a rough go of it lately, aren't they?


They've lost 4 of their last 6,yeah.

Those losses are at Wake Forest, at Clemson,vs UNC, and at Boston College, so it may not be as terrible as it looks. Their final 5 ACC games are going to be challenging though, so there is the potential for a little freefall before the tournament.

vs Wake
at Maryland
at Virginia Tech
vs Florida State
at UNC

DaddyTorgo 02-15-2009 08:21 PM

YEAH EAGLES!!!!


WOOHOOO!!!!!!

Radii 02-15-2009 08:42 PM

UNC survives in Miami. Miami held UNC to a season low 29 points in the first half. UNC ran out to a 54-40 lead midway through the 2nd half but Jack McClinton decided to take over the game and all of a sudden its 58-57 with 4:30 to go. UNC did a good job hanging on for the win.

This is an especially big win with Duke and Clemson both losing today UNC is 9-2 in ACC play, Duke is 7-4 and 3 others are 6-4. UNC has a much easier schedule down the stretch than Duke as well, setting things up very favorably to win the ACC regular season and get a #1 seed.

Wolfpack 02-15-2009 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radii (Post 1945280)
This is an especially big win with Duke and Clemson both losing today UNC is 9-2 in ACC play, Duke is 7-4 and 3 others are 6-4. UNC has a much easier schedule down the stretch than Duke as well, setting things up very favorably to win the ACC regular season and get a #1 seed.


It's definitely turning into a regular rugby scrum in the standings right now. There was a brief opening for other teams to jump on Carolina when they stumbled out of the league gate, but that ship's long since sailed now with Carolina generally managing their schedule while everyone else beats each other down.

Given how things are shaking out, I think the ACC will be looking at 6 or 7 bids. Duke, Carolina, Wake, and Clemson are pretty much all locks at this point. I think FSU's done enough to get in and so has BC (Duke and Carolina, the latter on the road, should be enough to overcome the Harvard loss). However, VT and Miami are both playing their way out at the moment. I think one of the two might make it, but not both.

Radii 02-15-2009 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack (Post 1945288)
Given how things are shaking out, I think the ACC will be looking at 6 or 7 bids. Duke, Carolina, Wake, and Clemson are pretty much all locks at this point. I think FSU's done enough to get in and so has BC (Duke and Carolina, the latter on the road, should be enough to overcome the Harvard loss). However, VT and Miami are both playing their way out at the moment. I think one of the two might make it, but not both.


That sounds about right to me. Miami is in huge trouble now, having lost 5 of 6, those losses at the beginning of the run to Va Tech, NC State, and Maryland are really hurting them. If they can finish 4-1 to end up 8-8, not unreasonable given their schedule, and win a game in the ACC Tournament then they have a chance.

Virginia Tech has the advantage of being 6-4 in conference play but they have a nightmare of a schedule. at UVA, vs FSU, at Clemson, vs Duke, vs UNC, at FSU... ouch. if they can manage to finish 3-3 in that stretch they deserve to be in.

Actually, given Va Tech and Maryland's schedules the rest of the way, and the hole Miami has dug, I would put my money on 6 bids right now,but would be happy to see one of those teams somehow play their way in.

NC State is playing a lot better lately, even in their losses. I can't imagine them having a shot at getting in the tournament, but they're not an easy win for anyone anymore. If the game this Saturday was in Raleigh I'd be quite concerned.

Karlifornia 02-15-2009 09:26 PM

USC vs. Arizona State right now on CSN. The game features two stars. The raw Demar DeRozan, and the NBA-ready James Harden.

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-16-2009 01:24 PM

Very excited to see Mizzou crack the top 10 this week. The poll also shows just how embarrassingly bias the coaches rankings are. Duke at #9 after losing four of their last 6? Anyone outside of the top 5-6 marquee schools would have plummeted in the rankings after that brutal run of basketball, which included a 27 point drubbing on the road.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN

DaddyTorgo 02-16-2009 01:39 PM

yeah the coaches rankings are embarassingly biased. no doubt!

Chief Rum 02-16-2009 01:46 PM

UCLA deservedly fall to #18 in the coaches poll, and we'll fall further than that in the AP poll, when it comes out.

It's retribution time. Was UCLA jobbed in the ASU game? Yes, a bit. Would that have won them the game? No, it just would have improved their chances. So either way, that game's at best a toss up. And then Collison and Howland both mentioned in post game interviews that the calls in the ASU game, they think, did affect the team going into Saturday's game to U of A, which led to the flat first half that got them down by 20. Sorry, you can't go into McHale with that attitude and facing a team with at least 2 likely lotto picks and expect to win.

UCLA needed this gut check, and hopefully they will come out better for it. But I have my doubts right now that this team has the makeup to get past this. Collison is a very good player, but he doesn't seem to inspire the team like Farmar and Afflalo and Luc Richard did in the past. And the team continues to struggle with some of the ways Howland does things, like (again) the awful way he runs an offense at times, and his lack of trust in freshmen. Also, the team just isn't consistent with the effort.

So Thursday against UW is a huge game for UCLA. Howland will set it up to be a "Game of the Season". If--and it's a huge if, because this team of all teams has shown an inability to rise to this occasion and take that next step--this team listens to Howland and really shows up Thursday, first place or no, the Dawgs are going to get a hurting Thursday night. Especially since UCLA will be in it for revenge, on top of just flat needing the win. Pauley is likely to be hopping mad, too.

I am looking forward to a good game.

dawgfan 02-16-2009 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1945821)
So Thursday against UW is a huge game for UCLA. Howland will set it up to be a "Game of the Season". If--and it's a huge if, because this team of all teams has shown an inability to rise to this occasion and take that next step--this team listens to Howland and really shows up Thursday, first place or no, the Dawgs are going to get a hurting Thursday night. Especially since UCLA will be in it for revenge, on top of just flat needing the win. Pauley is likely to be hopping mad, too.

I am looking forward to a good game.

For all of these reasons, plus the simple fact UCLA is more talented, I expect the Bruins to beat the UW, and by at least 15 points.

It's setting up to be a crazy finish to the Pac-10 season this year...

molson 02-16-2009 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1945779)
Very excited to see Mizzou crack the top 10 this week. The poll also shows just how embarrassingly bias the coaches rankings are. Duke at #9 after losing four of their last 6? Anyone outside of the top 5-6 marquee schools would have plummeted in the rankings after that brutal run of basketball, which included a 27 point drubbing on the road.

NCAA College Basketball Polls, College Basketball Rankings, NCAA Basketball Polls - ESPN


They're still #5 in the RPI, so the coaches poll is actually harsher than their "real" ranking (for purposes of tournament seeding).

I saw this phenomenon with Syracuse over the last few weeks - they lost 6 out of 8, and actually rose in the RPI over that time, because they faced 5 of the top 15 teams.

RedKingGold 02-16-2009 05:32 PM

Not that I agree with MBBF that much, but these coaches rankings are pretty useless.

Marquette ahead of Villanova after Nova' destroyed them by 19 points last week? Weak.

kcchief19 02-16-2009 06:13 PM

Then the AP poll must be equally embarrassing because Duke is No. 9 there too. Taken in context -- at No. 8, at No. 13, vs. No. 3 -- it's not that big of a deal. The case could be easily made they deserve to be in the mid teens so they may be a little overranked, but this isn't football -- the voters are putting them where they think they belong, not just based solely on who won and lost last week.

I knew Missouri would jump up a couple of spots but didn't expect 10 in coaches and 11 in AP. Little nervous about that because I'm not sure how this team will react. The Tigers get their bye this week then its at Colorado, vs. K-State at KU and vs. OU. I will gladly take 2-2 at that stretch and I'm popping champagne at 3-1. 4-0 and we'll be writhing on the floor in ecstacy.

Karlifornia 02-16-2009 06:17 PM

Uconn down 12-6 when Thabeet comes back from injury..see how long it takes them to come back (probably not very long)

Swaggs 02-16-2009 06:49 PM

Pitt and UConn both look really good. They are both very impressive in half-court defensives sets.

I hate Duke as much as the next guy, but looking over other teams' resumes, Duke is pretty well in the range that they belong in as far as I can tell.

Groundhog 02-16-2009 07:14 PM

If DeJuan Blair was about 2 inches taller he'd be a lottery pick.

cougarfreak 02-16-2009 07:39 PM

Jesus, UConn and Pitt are having a hockey game right now.

Karlifornia 02-16-2009 08:00 PM

What the hell was Levance Fields doing there after that offensive board?

Swaggs 02-16-2009 08:47 PM

I wonder if Arizona will make a play for Jaime Dixon after this season.

He is a West Coast guy and Arizona is one of the two best jobs in the Pac 10, in my opinion. It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).

muns 02-16-2009 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946264)
I wonder if Arizona will make a play for Jaime Dixon after this season.

He is a West Coast guy and Arizona is one of the two best jobs in the Pac 10, in my opinion. It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).


I dont see it happening. He would be walking into a horrible situation (basically starting over), when he has a fantastic thing going at Pitt.

Karlifornia 02-16-2009 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946306)
I dont see it happening. He would be walking into a horrible situation (basically starting over), when he has a fantastic thing going at Pitt.


What? Horrible situation? Granted, Arizona isn't where they were during Lute's glory years, but on name alone it's still one of the top programs in the country.

muns 02-16-2009 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1946330)
What? Horrible situation? Granted, Arizona isn't where they were during Lute's glory years, but on name alone it's still one of the top programs in the country.


While I can appreciate your argument about the name and how it used to be, but they havent done anything in how many years? They dont exactly have the kids on the team now, so its a rebuild job, and on top of that take a look at the adminisration. They run out the guy they had picked to replace Lute, because Lute comes back and feels threatened. On that alone that makes it a tough job to land a big name as it can look unstable. If Dixon leaves a top program for that situation in my opinion he would be an idiot.

yacovfb 02-16-2009 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946264)
It would make a lot of sense unless Pitt is willing to pay up (which they have a history of not doing).


Uh, they extended his contract a few years ago when Arizona State made a play for him so idk how they have a history of not doing it. I think (hope) Jamie stays at Pitt for awhile...he's got the most consistent Big East team the last 8 years and he's bringing in his best recruiting class by far since he's been coach. I think he stays.

Groundhog 02-16-2009 09:42 PM

I think Pitt is one of those situations that it would make sense for him to stick around at least for a few more years yet. Stepping in to another big name school is not neccessarily always the wisest move for a coach, because often it takes a year or so to get the players you need for your system, and success is expected straight away. Don't win, and you may be out of the job and off to a mid-major to work your way back up to the top again.

If he can keep bringing in the recruiting classes, he has a real chance at turning Pitt in to a major player in that conference. Unless the cash was significantly greater, I'd stick it out at Pitt.

yacovfb 02-16-2009 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog (Post 1946417)
If he can keep bringing in the recruiting classes, he has a real chance at turning Pitt in to a major player in that conference. Unless the cash was significantly greater, I'd stick it out at Pitt.


Pitt's already a major player in the conference. 8 straight years of 20+ wins and 10+ conference wins. Now he has to make Pitt a player in the NCAA's...never been past the sweet 16, although that's got to change this year I hope.

Swaggs 02-16-2009 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb (Post 1946384)
Uh, they extended his contract a few years ago when Arizona State made a play for him so idk how they have a history of not doing it. I think (hope) Jamie stays at Pitt for awhile...he's got the most consistent Big East team the last 8 years and he's bringing in his best recruiting class by far since he's been coach. I think he stays.


They also have allowed their past two ADs to leave over money (to Arkansas and Nebraska--although Pederson came back after being fired), allowed Howland to leave, let football coach Walt Harris leave for Stanford, let Johnny Majors leave for Tennessee, and let Jackie Sherrill leave for Texas A&M.

You can argue that all of those guys had their reasons for leaving, but over the past 30-years, Pitt has certainly let alot of talent leave for other teams.

Dixon is from California and previously lived in Arizona. He just signed an extension for somewhere between $1.5M-1.6M per year (through '16) and will become the all-time winningest head coach through the first 6-years of a career. He may feel loyalty towards Pitt for giving him a chance, but if you look at some of the coin going around these days, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get an offer for over $2M this offseason. That would be pretty hard to turn down if it gets him closer to home and to a, historically, more prestigious school.

Swaggs 02-16-2009 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946341)
While I can appreciate your argument about the name and how it used to be, but they havent done anything in how many years? They dont exactly have the kids on the team now, so its a rebuild job, and on top of that take a look at the adminisration. They run out the guy they had picked to replace Lute, because Lute comes back and feels threatened. On that alone that makes it a tough job to land a big name as it can look unstable. If Dixon leaves a top program for that situation in my opinion he would be an idiot.


Is it any worse than the situation that Tom Crean left Marquette for when he came to Indiana?

I think there are a handful of schools (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana) that, when they call, you listen whether you are happy at your job or not. I think schools like Arizona, UConn, Syracuse, and Duke are either on that list or on the cusp of being on that list due to the amount of success, over a great number of years, that Olson, Calhoun, Boeheim, and Coach K. have recently had. Just my opinion, but if one of those schools are sniffing around my team's coach, I'm pretty nervous.

dawgfan 02-16-2009 10:46 PM

If I'm Arizona, I make a big play for Mark Few at the end of the year. It appears as though Ernie Kent will survive this season at Oregon despite what a disaster it's been, so now is probably going to be the best time to tempt Few. If Oregon cans Kent, then they would be considered front-runners to lure Few away from Gonzaga.

muns 02-16-2009 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946516)
They also have allowed their past two ADs to leave over money (to Arkansas and Nebraska--although Pederson came back after being fired), allowed Howland to leave, let football coach Walt Harris leave for Stanford, let Johnny Majors leave for Tennessee, and let Jackie Sherrill leave for Texas A&M.

You can argue that all of those guys had their reasons for leaving, but over the past 30-years, Pitt has certainly let alot of talent leave for other teams.

Dixon is from California and previously lived in Arizona. He just signed an extension for somewhere between $1.5M-1.6M per year (through '16) and will become the all-time winningest head coach through the first 6-years of a career. He may feel loyalty towards Pitt for giving him a chance, but if you look at some of the coin going around these days, it wouldn't surprise me to see him get an offer for over $2M this offseason. That would be pretty hard to turn down if it gets him closer to home and to a, historically, more prestigious school.


Major and Sherril are good ones that left that werent shown the door. Pederson had a problem with the way his football coach in Harris was being treated saw the writing on the door and bolted to Nebraska and a bigger budget, and Harris was then let go.

Howland left to go back home to UCLA, and no matter what Pitt did they werent gonna stop that one. (Ucla and Arizona are apples and oranges)

Going from 1.5 mil to 2.5 mil isnt nearly enough coin to jump ship to Arizona to clean up the mess * i know you said over 2 mil, im just having fun with this conversation*. That only starts the convo if you think Arizona has a better reputation going for them now than Pitt, which I dont.

Dixon has the number 15 rated class in the country coming in for next year which has already been pointed out is his best ever and he sits atop the big east.

On top of this, you have to talk about Maggie Dixon and all the funds both the Big East, Pitt, and stuff they do at MSG for the Maggie Dixon Classic for cancer research. Moving West goes the opposite way of NY and Army which is where she coached and as close as they both were to each other that would also play in him moving somewhere.

Swaggs 02-16-2009 10:50 PM

Few would be another great choice.

Hard to believe that he has passed on so many offers.

yacovfb 02-16-2009 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946574)
Major and Sherril are good ones that left that werent shown the door. Pederson had a problem with the way his football coach in Harris was being treated saw the writing on the door and bolted to Nebraska and a bigger budget, and Harris was then let go.


Agree with pretty much everything you've written although Nebraska was also Pederson's alma mater, another (and probably main) reason he bolted.

muns 02-16-2009 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946538)
Is it any worse than the situation that Tom Crean left Marquette for when he came to Indiana?

I think there are a handful of schools (UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, Indiana) that, when they call, you listen whether you are happy at your job or not. I think schools like Arizona, UConn, Syracuse, and Duke are either on that list or on the cusp of being on that list due to the amount of success, over a great number of years, that Olson, Calhoun, Boeheim, and Coach K. have recently had. Just my opinion, but if one of those schools are sniffing around my team's coach, I'm pretty nervous.


No its not even close to the Indiana situation, which was way worse, but Indiana and Arizona arent on the same level which is where we disagree.

Even with who has been at Indiana they were able to land top classes because Indiana can recruit itself. Without Lute at the helm and lets be honest, even with him there in his later years they werent landing top classes.

As you pointed out with your list of schools, you have Arizona on the cusp, and I dont. Arizona doesnt recruit itself like the others do, and the past how many years is proof of that.

muns 02-16-2009 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946577)
Few would be another great choice.

Hard to believe that he has passed on so many offers.


It is amazing where Few could have landed but choose to stay. You think this might be the year he bolts since its not his usual kick ass year?

muns 02-16-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb (Post 1946588)
Agree with pretty much everything you've written although Nebraska was also Pederson's alma mater, another (and probably main) reason he bolted.


Your right I forgot about that. Thanks for the correction :)

Chief Rum 02-16-2009 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946597)
Your right I forgot about that. Thanks for the correction :)


No one's said the real reason this won't happen.

Howland.

Dixon and Howland are best of friends. They can't stand playing each other. When they met in the NCAAs two years ago, it was grating for both of them to have to play each other. No way they decide to play in the same conference, forcing them to play each other at least twice and maybe three times per season.

Groundhog 02-16-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946595)
It is amazing where Few could have landed but choose to stay. You think this might be the year he bolts since its not his usual kick ass year?


I'd think it quite likely. Both in terms of how they've played this year, and the fact that St. Mary's (pre-Mills injury, anyhow) are beginning to nip at their heels now. The losses of Pargo and Heytvelt will be big, too, and I think next year they'll need to bank on Daye really taking that next big step and, from watching him this year, I'm not so sure he has it in him.

Few does have a top-100 swingman coming in, but I still have a strong feeling that he'll be elsewhere after this year.

Swaggs 02-16-2009 11:34 PM

I don't disagree that some or all of Pitt's defections have had reasons, personal or not, for leaving. But the fact remains that essentially all of their successful coaches have left for other college jobs over the past 30-years. I think it is because athletics are not a top priority (or have not always been a priority) and they do not have a competitive AD budget, which is fine, as its priority is maintaining itself as a top notch academic school.

Maybe Dixon wants to be Pitt's Lute Olson or Jim Calhoun, but I wouldn't be surprised if he receives the full-court press from Arizona this off season. And, I don't think his current recruiting class or the current state of Arizona's basketball program will deter him.

Either way, whether he stays or goes, he is due to receive a big payday this offseason when you consider his age and how ridiculous his record has been in his first six-years on the job (in the Big East, no less).

Swaggs 02-16-2009 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 1946620)
No one's said the real reason this won't happen.

Howland.

Dixon and Howland are best of friends. They can't stand playing each other. When they met in the NCAAs two years ago, it was grating for both of them to have to play each other. No way they decide to play in the same conference, forcing them to play each other at least twice and maybe three times per season.


I have heard this before and think it is ridiculous, whether it is true or not. I cannot imagine anyone denying themselves the opportunity to pursue success in their field AND limit their (and their family's) income opportunities because it is THAT difficult to face a friend. And, I cannot imagine it would be any more stressful than playing for a conference championship or in the Final Four.

Again, I have heard it said, so I know you aren't pulling it out of your ass. But, I see those types of statements made purely out of respect for one another rather than them being legitimate factors in career choices.

Chief Rum 02-16-2009 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1946624)
I have heard this before and think it is ridiculous, whether it is true or not. I cannot imagine anyone denying themselves the opportunity to pursue success in their field AND limit their (and their family's) income opportunities because it is THAT difficult to face a friend. And, I cannot imagine it would be any more stressful than playing for a conference championship or in the Final Four.

Again, I have heard it said, so I know you aren't pulling it out of your ass. But, I see those types of statements made purely out of respect for one another rather than them being legitimate factors in career choices.


Well, I think if an opportunity came up that truly was a step up for Dixon, that that this consideration would not stop it. The thing is, I think there is only one program in the West that is a clear step up from what Dixon is doing right now at Pitt, and that is UCLA. Obviously, then, there can be no conflict, for for Dixon to go to UCLA (and I am pretty sure he is on their shortlist if Howland were to leave), Howland would have to leave.

Arizona is tricky. I don't know that they will pay enough to lure him. Lute was AZ's draw. They were nothing before he came around. So that would be rolling a lot of dice to give AZ a run when he already has a very good job in one of the country's top conferences.

If there was a major non-Pac 10 conference out West with a superpower of some sort, I could see it drawing him, regardless of what it would mean between him and Howland. But no Pac 10 program that doesn't already have Howland as a coach is enough to draw him over against his objections to having to play his friend 2-3 times per year.

MrBug708 02-17-2009 12:27 AM

It's never a good thing to follow a legend. That being said, you should see the wishlist over at the Arizona sites. And they are dead serious about this interest (according to posters over there)

Izzo, Cal, Pitino, Donovan - Top List
Back up - Few, Dixon
Longshots - Sean Miller, Tubby Smith

And Chief, I think the playing Howland 2-3 times a year has been overplayed. Sure it might be a concern, but if he wants to come out West, it won't be an issue. No other job is worth coming out here if you are Dixon.

That also being said, Arizona is going to be epically bad next year. I doubt the new coach can convince both Chase and Hill to come back for another season

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-17-2009 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb (Post 1946453)
Pitt's already a major player in the conference. 8 straight years of 20+ wins and 10+ conference wins. Now he has to make Pitt a player in the NCAA's...never been past the sweet 16, although that's got to change this year I hope.


I guesss it just depends on how you spin their NCAA results as to whether Pitt has been a successful tourney team.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NCAA Basketball stats, scores, standings, and blogs from NCAA Basketball columnists

Quote:

Before Kansas coach Bill Self stood underneath the Alamodome and raised the championship trophy last April, he was widely considered a disappointment as an NCAA Tournament coach.

Self owned a career NCAA Tournament winning percentage of .640 entering the 2008 championship. That's better than Hall of Famers Jim Boeheim, John Chaney and Lou Carnesecca.

So here's what elevated Self from failure: a missed free throw by Memphis' Derrick Rose and a missed 3-pointer by Davidson's Jason Richards.

That's how silly this stuff can be sometimes.

Somebody asked the other day if Pitt "needs" to reach the Final Four this season. On one hand, the answer would be yes because the Panthers might need a few years before they again have a chance like this.

But what seemed to be implied was that many fans will consider the Panthers to again have disappointed in the NCAAs if they don't reach this year's Final Four. In fact, Pitt rarely has fallen short of its potential in the Howland/Dixon era.

Since the Panthers appeared in the 2002 event, they own a respectable .588 NCAA winning percentage that reflects four tips to the Sweet 16 and a single first-round elimination, in 2005.

In most of their eliminations, the Panthers were defeated by teams with superior, NBA-type talent: Marquette and Dwyane Wade in 2003, Oklahoma State and Joey Graham in 2004, Patrick O'Bryant and Bradley in 2006. Those kinds of players typically win NCAA Tournament games. Until this season, Pitt hasn't had more of them on its side.

Pitt has been the decade's ultimate overachiever, consistently contending for Big East championships with players undervalued by other programs and of little use to the NBA. The Panthers should be celebrated for their March accomplishments. Maybe if their opponents miss a few big shots on the way to Detroit, the Panthers will get their due this year.


This week's top 10:

1. Connecticut. It's too early to judge how the Huskies will respond to the absence of wing scorer Jerome Dyson. They're going to miss him. They've got several weeks to figure out how to account for what his departure removes.

2. Oklahoma. The Sooners continue to improve as athletic 6-6 wing Juan Pattillo establishes himself in the rotation. In the seven games in which he's played double-figure minutes, their average margin of victory is 12 points.

3. North Carolina. It is tempting to move the Tar Heels ahead of the Sooners. OU has more top 100 victories, but Carolina has won on the road over Duke, Florida State and Miami. We'll hold off on the coup, though, because OU goes to Texas on Saturday. Let's give the Sooners their chance to win another big road game.

4. Pitt. As others falter, the Panthers move steadily forward. They're still only 7-2 against the RPI top 50, but they've still lost only two games. The Panthers' defining stretch comes now, with three of the next four on the road -- Connecticut, Providence and Seton Hall -- followed by home closers against Marquette and UConn. Ouch.

5. Michigan State. The best stat of the year, until further notice: MSU still has not lost a single game played at full strength. (Although it'd be nice if Raymar Morgan heals and returns the Spartans to full strength soon). Word from Booth Newspapers reporter Steve Grinczel is Morgan practiced Sunday, and he is expected to play in Tuesday's Big Ten showdown at Purdue.

6. Duke. It is tempting to stop at five, because that is the list of teams that have not stumbled onto our bad side. The Blue Devils lost three times in the past four games as they work through more point guard issues. They still have huge wins over Xavier, Florida State and Purdue to remind them of what they can be.

7. Wake Forest. The Deacs ought to win three of their next four: Georgia Tech, N.C. State and a road game at Virginia. If they get through that OK, the questions about what's gone wrong should cease.

8. Xavier. Not many teams own two victories against teams on this list. (Wake is another). It's just hard to do, which is why the Musketeers stick around even after losing two of their past three.

9. Missouri. Welcome to the top 10, Tigers. Would you like to have Mike Anderson arm-wrestle Oklahoma's Jeff Capel for national coach of the year?

10. Memphis. A whole lot of people in Memphis are going to be mad about this. Their team hasn't lost since before Christmas and they believe that momentum should count for more. But this poll is about accomplishment, and the most important qualification is beating quality teams. It's hard to get past the fact the Tigers lost to nearly half the good teams they played. And the use of the word "nearly" is a tad generous. If I were to exclude UAB from that list, which is defensible, it would be "exactly" half.

yacovfb 02-17-2009 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1946673)
I guesss it just depends on how you spin their NCAA results as to whether Pitt has been a successful tourney team.

SportingNews.com - Your expert source for NCAA Basketball stats, scores, standings, and blogs from NCAA Basketball columnists


Just giving the sentiment from on campus ;) Now, if this team doesn't make it past the sweet 16 then there will be even more disappointment about it. The other Pitt team's during this 8 year run were solid, but never really were favored in the sweet 16 matchups. This year will be much different as a 1 or, worst case a 2 seed.

Dr. Sak 02-17-2009 09:51 AM

I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-17-2009 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb (Post 1946784)
Just giving the sentiment from on campus ;) Now, if this team doesn't make it past the sweet 16 then there will be even more disappointment about it. The other Pitt team's during this 8 year run were solid, but never really were favored in the sweet 16 matchups. This year will be much different as a 1 or, worst case a 2 seed.


I can certainly see that opinion coming from a college student point-of-view. As you get older, you quickly realize that the years that you thought were 'failures' were actually great years. It just takes a downturn of a few years for you to quickly realize as a fan that you'd give anything to have the program back that you used to criticize as not being good enough.

Take it from a Mizzou fan who took the regular tourney appearances under Norm Stewart for granted. I'm glad that Mizzou is back in the hunt now, but the previous 4 years have been very tough as a fan.

muns 02-17-2009 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1946791)
I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.


come on Sak you know you love the panthers ;)

Dr. Sak 02-17-2009 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by muns (Post 1946808)
come on Sak you know you love the panthers ;)


I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.

muns 02-17-2009 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708 (Post 1946634)
It's never a good thing to follow a legend. That being said, you should see the wishlist over at the Arizona sites. And they are dead serious about this interest (according to posters over there)

Izzo, Cal, Pitino, Donovan - Top List
Back up - Few, Dixon
Longshots - Sean Miller, Tubby Smith

And Chief, I think the playing Howland 2-3 times a year has been overplayed. Sure it might be a concern, but if he wants to come out West, it won't be an issue. No other job is worth coming out here if you are Dixon.

That also being said, Arizona is going to be epically bad next year. I doubt the new coach can convince both Chase and Hill to come back for another season


Delusional is what comes to mind when reading that.

I dont see any of those top 6 that were listed as being interested.

Sean Miller and Tubby Smith are interesting though. Tubby has turned the Minnesota team around and has a very very nice class coming in next year. Minnesota isnt exactly known for stuff though, and Miller is a fantastic coach. While Xavier is ranked and can bring in kids would Zona be a step up?

Im not sure but those 2 for me at least are interesting. Anyone else got any opinions on those last 2?

muns 02-17-2009 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1946809)
I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.


Cant hate a PSU diehard for that can I?

dawgfan 02-17-2009 01:22 PM

I dunno Muns, I think Few would listen hard to an offer from Arizona.

muns 02-17-2009 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan (Post 1946914)
I dunno Muns, I think Few would listen hard to an offer from Arizona.


I think you are right here. Due to his team not having a typical season, and the fact that he has turned down more than his fair share of opportunities. Might be the perfect time to bolt. He made a winner of of the Zags, he certianly is capable of doing the same in Arizona.

DataKing 02-17-2009 04:31 PM

Few has been a sought-after guy for a number of years now. I know he was considered for the Kansas job after Roy Williams went to UNC. Pretty sure Bill Self was the first one to receive the offer, but I know they looked at Few.

Swaggs 02-17-2009 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1946791)
I never thought I'd see the day when Swaggs was defending Pitt. You sir are a traitor and are no longer welcome in my house.


..says the Pitt graduate.

Swaggs 02-17-2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1946809)
I got my Masters Degree from there only because it was free. I won't even display that diploma because it says University of Pittsburgh.


Damn... you outted yourself before I had the chance?

I cannot believe you would admit to having a degree from Pitt.

Karlifornia 02-17-2009 04:53 PM

Yeah, kind of hard to take any hate seriously when you..uh..went to school there.

Dr. Sak 02-17-2009 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1947094)
Yeah, kind of hard to take any hate seriously when you..uh..went to school there.


It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."

muns 02-17-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1947221)
It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."


Your a dick!!!

PS before people start into me Sak and I went to HS together and he is a great guy that I cant speak enough for, (i just like trying to ruffle his feathers a bit)

sterlingice 02-17-2009 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DataKing (Post 1947059)
Few has been a sought-after guy for a number of years now. I know he was considered for the Kansas job after Roy Williams went to UNC. Pretty sure Bill Self was the first one to receive the offer, but I know they looked at Few.


I'm pretty happy with how that one turned out (tho I think Few would do a very good job at a large school, too) :)

SI

Butter 02-18-2009 06:50 AM

Sean Miller took his name out of the ring of some high-profile jobs at the end of last season... would be surprised to see him go anywhere for a while.

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-18-2009 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice (Post 1947293)
I'm pretty happy with how that one turned out (tho I think Few would do a very good job at a large school, too) :)

SI


Yeah, you can thank Mike Alden for that coaching hire. As you likely know, he had Quin Snyder and Bill Self at a hotel in KC for interviews. Both wanted the Mizzou job and Alden chose to offer the job to Quin. The rest of the story speaks for itself.

JPhillips 02-18-2009 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69 (Post 1947548)
Sean Miller took his name out of the ring of some high-profile jobs at the end of last season... would be surprised to see him go anywhere for a while.


Xavier would be okay. They seem to have an endless supply of guys that can take them to the Sweet Sixteen.

Butter 02-18-2009 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 1947605)
Xavier would be okay. They seem to have an endless supply of guys that can take them to the Sweet Sixteen.


Yes. And for a Dayton fan, that's frustrating as hell.

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-18-2009 10:01 AM

FYI to Mizzou fans on the board. Sports Illustrated is in Columbia today and will have an article this week on the reemergence of the program.

MizzouRah 02-18-2009 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1947768)
FYI to Mizzou fans on the board. Sports Illustrated is in Columbia today and will have an article this week on the reemergence of the program.


I've heard rumors Alabama is talking about going after Mike Anderson.. any truth you've heard?

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-18-2009 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah (Post 1947863)
I've heard rumors Alabama is talking about going after Mike Anderson.. any truth you've heard?


VERY doubtful. Wife is reportedly very happy in Columbia. They moved here so they could be closer to family and friends who live in Oklahoma and Arkansas. When asked on Tiger Talk the other night about the Alabama job, he responded, "If Momma's happy, then I'm happy. Right now, Momma's very happy in Columbia."

Knowing how strong of a personality his wife is, that statement speaks volumes.

I have heard that Alabama is trying to coax in Calipari, but Memphis is ready to buck up for another extension and pay raise if they have to do so to keep him there.

MizzouRah 02-18-2009 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan (Post 1947870)
VERY doubtful. Wife is reportedly very happy in Columbia. They moved here so they could be closer to family and friends who live in Oklahoma and Arkansas. When asked on Tiger Talk the other night about the Alabama job, he responded, "If Momma's happy, then I'm happy. Right now, Momma's very happy in Columbia."

Knowing how strong of a personality his wife is, that statement speaks volumes.

I have heard that Alabama is trying to coax in Calipari, but Memphis is ready to buck up for another extension and pay raise if they have to do so to keep him there.


Well.. that's great news. I'm still shocked at the year we are having.. I attribute most to coaching.

Karlifornia 02-18-2009 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1947221)
It was not by choice...it was free. I wasn't going to tell my work, "No I don't want you to pay for my $25,000 a year masters because I hate Pitt."


Understood. I would have made the same decision. I'm just surprised that didn't melt away any of the "hate".

Dr. Sak 02-18-2009 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1947948)
Understood. I would have made the same decision. I'm just surprised that didn't melt away any of the "hate".


I grew up in a Penn State household in the late 70s and 80s where the rivalry was strong.

Swaggs 02-18-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1947953)
I grew up in a Penn State household in the late 70s and 80s where the rivalry was strong.


...also, you have a giant crush on Wannstache.

Dr. Sak 02-18-2009 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs (Post 1947985)
...also, you have a giant crush on Wannstache.


13-9

Dr. Sak 02-18-2009 07:59 PM

Penn State beats Illinois 38-33...what an ugly game.

MJ4H 02-18-2009 07:59 PM

y i k e s

cartman 02-18-2009 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak (Post 1948183)
Penn State beats Illinois 38-33...what an ugly game.


Did they agree to not use the shot clock?

Dr. Sak 02-18-2009 08:04 PM

Illinois didn't go to the line the entire game.

Karlifornia 02-18-2009 08:05 PM

How many TD's for Juice Williams?

Dr. Sak 02-18-2009 08:07 PM

Funny thing is Penn State scored 38 points in the football game against illinois this season...38-24

sterlingice 02-18-2009 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlifornia (Post 1948196)
How many TD's for Juice Williams?


:D

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan 02-19-2009 07:59 AM

As a Mizzou fan, you see a result like that Illinois game and curse your luck that the one night you played them, one of their guards was suddenly unconscious from deep. Just baffling.

hoopsguy 02-19-2009 09:45 AM

Well, I think it goes a little deeper than that. The Illini have the look of a team that peaked too early. They are not all that talented this season, and it sure seems like the rest of the Big Ten has caught up to them in terms of figuring out how to defend this group of players.

Chief Rum 02-20-2009 02:18 AM

UCLA got a key and needed win tonight. It did not happen easily. Most of the game, I thought UCLA was the better team on the floor tonight, but UDub showed their chops and stuck with it, and made some good runs, including tying it twice late.

Very relieved to get the win in a game that could have gone either way for most of the night. One thing is for sure (not that I doubted this, since I knew going into this season that the Huskies had a chance to be good this year), but UDub is good. Brockman's just a beast underneath (can't wait for him to graduate, why the hell didn't he go pro two years ago?!? Better than Hansbrough and Harangody, IMO), Dentmon never seems to be able to be stopped and is a great shooter with range, and the team just has a lot of nice players that contribute in various ways.

dawgfan 02-20-2009 05:20 PM

Closer game than I expected, but once again the UW fails to come through in Pauley Pavilion. UW is now just .5 games ahead of UCLA, ASU & Cal.

Interesting how, after a lot of discussion about fouls and the UW's "aggressiveness" in the LA papers, the game was called very loosely with only 27 fouls called in the game (as opposed to 46 in the first game).

sterlingice 02-21-2009 12:29 PM

So, I've been watching Butler/Davidson on ESPN. They keep talking about how if Butler doesn't win their conference tourney, they're not an at large team. What? A team in the top 25 with a top 25 RPI wouldn't be in? Realistically, a loss drops them to ~30ish with a 30~35 RPI, so please tell me these announcers are just idiots.

EDIT: Never mind, I guess they've lost twice this week so they won't be in the top 25 when the new poll comes out

SI

Chief Rum 02-21-2009 03:45 PM

I can't stand this UCLA team. It's just a maddening team to root for. I can't count on anything from these guys. I mean, should have/could have beaten ASU last week (but for the refs), and then they mail it in the first half versus Arizona. They come back and get a huge win against UDub, and right now, they're going to have to go thru contortions in the final minute or so to come back on Wazzu...at home!

I almost want this season to jut end, and let's start anew next year with another class coming in.

Chief Rum 02-21-2009 04:02 PM

And the Bruins do indeed fall, and to a team that outplayed them, if not out-talented them. Taylor Rochestie basically had the game of his life.

I'll give UCLA kudos for really hitting its shots and making it close in the end (final score 82-81 with UCLA's desperation half court shot blocked)--they really just ran out of time.

But that's why it's so critically important to start making these plays earlier in the game, to show up from the start, so you don't have to go through this stuff.

And not to harp on it, but the refs again played a role. There was a WSU turnover (shouldabeena) along the left side of the court, and somehow the refs gave it back to Wazzu. No one from UCLA even touched the ball in that whole play, Wazzu lost the ball out of bounds, and somehow, the ball went back to Wazzu.

But, really, this comes down to UCLA not wanting it again, not wanting it enough. Like I said before, very frustrating team to follow.


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