I think it's clear that hoops, to the smallest extent, followed by myself and whoever lives between dubb and ardent is the biggest target tomorrow. But I don't quite follow on how not letting hoops and I, assuming we're both Jedi, battle it out is to dubb's advantage if he's a wolf.

Why Ardent? I know Ardent better than any other werewolf player. We have discussed strategy in depth for hours at a time on the phone in the past. He takes strategy into everything he types in these games as do I. He's not playing his normal game(he has had no strategy this game at all, something doesn't add up in his play, and then things such as voting blocks don't work in his favor either). Before the night actions were even up I said I already know who I am voting for. I got up today and came out with that person since they were still around.

With all that said its time to return to my movie :), hope I'm still around when I come back b/c I am a jedi.

I think Dubb just got the vote by one.

I think Gram's right and would like a hell of an explanation from mckerny.

Here is what I show for final votes:

Ardent - Dubb (532), Hoops (550), KWhit (611), Tanglewood (620), Ardent (621), Taz (653), Barkeep (686)

Dubb - Schmidty (553), Sack (556), Jeeber (578), Desnudo (583), Gram (586), Qwik (588), SnDvls (610), mckerney (687)

Qwikshot - Cartman (594)

Not Voted: King, Penny, StKelly

8-7-1 with Dubb slated for an exit, barring duke, weighted votes, or something else that MasterSaldana has cooked up for us.


Mckerney, what prompted the vote change at the end?

I hadn't thought of that. In that situation though, wouldn't Ardent just come forward and call Dubb out since all the other wolves would also know who he was?

As would I. I was prepared for the martyr's death.

FWIW, Ardent did leave the vote on himself.

I'm confused by that last sentence. It's absolutely to his advantage, but he can nail AE now and then you two will still be around as prime suspects. Likely more suspicious of each other if anything. That was the point I was trying to make.

Well we all did say that the bodygaurd should remain quiet. Unless Ardent is going to get lynched nothing is gained by revealing himself to everyone as the bodyguard. Instead it creates a whole mind game behind the scenes between ardent and the wolves. Ardent wouldn't neceassily have to be the bodyguard for this scenario to play out, it was just the most easily explainable one given the short time. With ardent insisting even when it looked like death that he was a vanilla it only seemed appropriate to discard it.

Plotting out three days in WW is an exercise in futility. It is far too likely that some sort of information would be gained if not in day 1 then by end of day 2, to cause a different course then all three of us going down the drain. By coming out against ardent, dubb made himself a target equal to anyone else. In fact he made himself more of a target then anyone else. I think this is a far more effective wolfish tactic after a couple more villagers are dead and it's clear where the battle lines have been drawn.

Possibly. I think it was obvious to all, or at least to me, that no matter what happened today, you and hoops would still be suspicious of each other. I still believe that will be the case, even if AE were to turn out a Sith.

I know it would be super sweet if it turns out dubb was Sith.

I don't think that's true at all. Hoops was only marginally suspicious of me, and only because of my look at him, and my early unvote off of him after dubb did his post shows that I was willing to take a second look of somebody who only struck me in the gut as evil, without strong conviction.

Dubb really slid behind the scenes. He didn't really push at all beside his original argument. At a certain point I think most people had forgotten who started the voting on AE in the first place, until Schmidty pointed it out.

Well you know yourself better than I do, but the way I was reading things was different.

Since it appears I will be living, at least temporarily, I will take kwhit off the ignore list and I apologize for calling you a jerk. However, the wording of your post truly offended me.

AE you know I have all the respect in the world for you and understand how KWhit's post could have struck you wrong. I think he was just reflecting a feeling that I know I have that voting for yourself is a tactic that needs to be taken out of our WW games.

Going back to last game, if AE is offended by that, he's the most thin-skinned Navy man I've ever met.

I can understand that. My vote for myself wasn't a "get me out of this game" type thing, though I posted as much in anger. You and someone else said you had more to gain by my death. Had I not voted for myself, I doubt the vote would have been as close. Who knows.

I'm willing to walk the line. I have no fear of death. I'm not being a defeatist. I'm trying to help.

Going back to last game was an Aardvark, and yes I was stretching.

Telling me I'm useless or however he put it, yeah that pissed me off.

TBH, I don't buy it. However, I also don't think you are a Sith. If I'm wrong about the first, I'll sincerely apologize after the game.

Back from shoveling snow ... Mrs. Hoopsguy was getting frustrated that I wouldn't leave the computer to do this earlier :)

In terms of my suspicion level of Barkeep, it is probably a little bit lower than that of the collective opinion. If he is playing a wolf he is being a little more up-front than I have seen him be in the past. Not that he is a lurker as a wolf, but he is extending himself a little more than I am used to seeing. Interestingly, I'll be more suspicious of him if Dubb is a Sith, even though I was right with him in voting for Ardent.

That's fine. It did piss me off, maybe offend wasn't the word.

So where's the salad shooter? I want to see results gosh darn it.

Interesting. So dubb was playing the role of aux evil again. This puts things into a new light indeed.

For an explaination of my vote change, I became less convinced of my reason to suspect ardent and began to believe that ardent is a jedi, and with another candidate i the running that I was somewhat suspicious of in dubb, I decided to go with that option instead. Perhaps I made a huge mistake and lynched a jedi and let a sith go, but considering the circumstances I believed that my vote was better off being on dubb than ardent.

That said, I think we definitely need to follow cartman's lead and place high suspicion on qwikshot tomorrows lynch vote.

sorceror role?

Hmm. So the question for me is whether he was cursed, in which case I think little is learned from his action or the helper evil role in which case my suspcion is 100% back on hoops, or possibly qwik, as they would be the ones who he was willing to potentially sacrafice himself to save.

Now, I hope you will all leave me alone.

thats Master Salad Shooter!!!! :mad:

So he is evil, but not Sith. 3rd faction? Dark Jedi?

What is the "aux evil" in reference to? Thanks.

Third option, really cursed option variant. Dubb was in the process of converting to bad guy. During the sword fight last night the resolution was dubb agreeing to be trained in the dark side. So he wasn't quite evil yet hence the line "inablity to fully harness the power of the Dark Side" in the lynch suggesting that perhaps in a future day he would become a bad guy.

Auxurilly evil. Not a full fledged wolf, but something else. As an auxurilly evil you general win if the wolves win, but count as a villager. As posted above I see it possible for him to have either been this kind of role or cursed.

Nice try.

Well, pending night actions we may be heading towards that Barkeep/Hoopsguy showdown after all.

First time that we have struck at the enemies of the Jedi, so voting patterns should start to take on more value.

Assuming that the Sith knew the identity of Dubb, I would expect that mckerney vaults up the trusted list now.

Ardent moves up as well, although Dubb is crafty enough to provide cover for a Sith. Still, I'm inclined to put this as a fairly low likelihood.

I don't think we can assume at all that the sith knew Dubb was a bad guy unless you believe he was cursed and was the one attacked last night.

Dubb voted for Lathum the first 2 days since Lathum turned out to be a Jedi, I do not think we can learn anything from that.

Barkeep, if Dubb was the one in combat last night then his blade has changed colors. And the description in Post #493 doesn't read at all like a conversion to me.

Mckerney also voted for Dubb on Day 1 (post 229). He was the only person to vote for him prior to today, at least as the final vote. I haven't tracked all the changes, just the final votes.

I am quite sure that Dubb began our journey as a Jedi, yet was corrupted by the dishonorable Sith somewhere along the way. We must guard ourselves against this evil, but also resist fear and hatred, as they will only distract us and lead us to the dark side.

Forgot about the color of the lightsabers. Good catch hoops.

So that leaves either untapped cursed or sorcerer. I guess because he was acknowledged as evil that makes sorcerer the more likely role.

mckerney voted Qwik on day 2.

Today, 09:13 PM	#655
KWhit Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Conyers GA Posts: 4,886	Quote: Originally Posted by Desnudo It's how he plays. Sow confusion. I don't (and never will) understand why some villagers/jedi/whatever would play this way. I find it completely unhelpful to the rest of the good guys. So either Ardent is a sith, or he's an unhelpful jedi keeping us from finding the sith. So he needs to go, IMO.

There was my original post that pissed you off so badly. If that offended you enough to call me a jerk, then you are far too sensitive, IMO. Oh well...

But I wonder what your thinking was. If you are a Jedi, then how does voting for yourself help us find the Sith? Unless you're the Duke and happen to know a sith to switch the vote too, I don't understand the logic of voting for yourself.

When you have the auxilary role, do the bad guys usually know who that person is? Meaning, they should have known that Dubb was really on their side. Or is it something that is usually hidden from the bad guys as well?

We haven't had the sorceror role in a game for awhile now. I believe the traditional rules with that is that neither side knows the identity of the other.

It seems like I have heard the sorcerer role reffered to as a seer for the bad guys. When you say sorcerer role, what do you mean?

Hoops is right that having neither side know the other is the most common way, but I'm 95% sure we have had games where the sorcerer knows the bad guys but the bad guys do not know the sorcerer. Might have even been game where dubb was the sorcerer and did a fake seer reveal.

Gram you're right; the sorcerer is a counter seer. Hoops and I are thinking of the cultist. In RPI's game it had the following description


showing that there's clear precedent for the role going that way.

Sorry I didn't get a vote in today, but at least we finally got a Sith. Woot!

Ah yes, that game. :mad:

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=513

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...&postcount=644

No offense (seriously), but how can you celebrate when you had absolutely nothing to do with bagging the Sith? I just don't get it.

What got me angry was the unhelpful jedi part. Unhelpful? I seriously doubt I would have been part of the discussion today had it not been for dubb, who as it turns out was working for the bad guys. Looking at it now, dubb when he did the fake seer reveal games back, did the same thing there. Just because I'm trying a different tactic, a tactic a lot of players try to use, doesn't mean I am
1) A sith
2) Unuseful or
3) Keep you from finding the sith.

How does voting for myself help? How many times will I answer this? This will be the final time. Why get lynched? It made no sense to me, but more than one player in this thread stated that they would learn more by my death than by dubb's. So I did the unselfish thing and voted myself, not the unhelpful. The votes were not going to come to me if I didn't switch to myself...at least it didn't appear that way. My vote was a two vote swing, 1 away from dubb and 1 to me. Without that, there's no way I get lynched. I'm not the duke. Not the bodyguard. Not anything. Vanilla jedi. I couldn't be more plain if I was an extra jedi in one of the movies. I've got nothing going for me other than to see the jedi win. If my death leads to jedi victory, I was willing to do that.

Now that the dust has settled, I will sit back and watch again. That, and work on this blasted research paper that I can find no information on.

How can one not celebrate when we get a bad guy? I'm no fan of people not voting but I hardly begrudge a person for posting (even if insincerely) about getting a baddie.

I thought the paper was on yourself :confused:

Sarge and Penny did not vote either. Did either one say anything about being unable to be around for the weekend?

Ah, that's on the back burner. I'm currently working on how gas prices are affecting the "X Industry".

It's supposed to the electronics industry, but I can't find jack on it. Only thing I'm finding on gas prices and their effect is at the pump.

Two articles is all I've found all day that didn't deal with the pump directly.

I'm really sorry I didn't get to vote today guys. We got hit really hard at the fire station and this is one of the first chances I've even had to look at the thread. It looks as though you did the right thing with dubb, I just hope we can keep the momentum going in the right direction. We are on a nice little roll right now.

Yes, I saw where you posted that as your reasoning. But it's different for them than for you. The people who were voting for you and said that they would learn from your death don't know if you're a jedi or not! If they knew 100% that you were a Jedi, they wouldn't want to vote for you! They wouldn't care what they learned from lynching you - they'd rather go after somebody that had a chance at being a Sith.

But you know your role. Assuming you're telling the truth, you know that you're a Jedi. So you were voting for somebody you knew for a fact was a good guy. That makes no sense to me - vote for someone who at least has a chance of being a baddie.

I'm sure gas prices are affecting X in all forms by raising the price of delivery for goods and services. This raise gets passed on to consumers in the form of more expensive everything.

Yeah, I just need to find articles stating as such.

That's understandable. I can see your point.

Well if it is any consolation I had fun this game and I'll start playing more often in the future again.

I find that to be excellent news indeed.

That vote was purely random. Helpful or a good idea? Maybe neither, but there was no reason for that vote.


I suppose it does, and I knew it likely would if dubb did turn out to be a Sith, and way up on the distrust lists if I was wrong. Thankfully my instinct turned out right. Unfortunately it coud move me up on another list that could prove harmful.


And there's about a 90% chance I will tomorrow as well.


Agreed, though if we can lynch Qwik tomorrow and he indeed turns out to be a Sith, I'll be inclined to suspect ardent again.

Sorry that I didn't vote. I had an opportunity to, but I wanted to read a few more of the posts before making up my mind. Then my son fell and split open his head and we had to rush him to the emergency room for stitches. (He is fine). But I should have cast my vote earlier anyway.

My one thought here is that Ardent's vote for himself, and his claim that he never wants to play this game again sounds suspiciously like his argument last game when he kept threatening to quit the game because everyone was against him. It puts him at the top of my questionable people list.

Don't consider it a never. Consider it a retirement, and considering that I didn't die and that dubb was revealed as a bad guy, I feel a change of heart coming on.

Sorry to hear that about your son and good to hear he is fine.

StKelly, glad to hear your kid is OK.

Dubb, glad to hear that you had fun and I'll look forward to being wrong about you again in another game soon.

I'm also glad to hear your son is okay.

I want to understand this correctly:

Some believe that fighting fires/saving lives and the well being of their children are priorities over werewolf?

stkelly I too am glad to hear your son is alright and just remember how resiliant children really are; I'm sure he'll be up and running in no time.

Actually he already was up and running around. No cuncussiom or anything, just a lot of blood (head wounds bleed a lot even when they aren't very bad.) but yeah he is fine.

Ardent, I wouldn't put it past you to have arainged go up against dubb knowing that once he was reveiled as a bad guy it would help you look better.

Impossible. There's no way we'd both know who we are.

Jesus. Six pages while I was at work. So much for nobody being here this weekend!

Awesome that we nailed, at the least, a Sith sympathizer. Of course, that raises the question again about how many Sith there are.

I still don't believe AE is Sith, but part of me wonders about the possibility. Dubb and AE were on each other pretty good tonight, and I wonder if that might have been to disassociate from one another in the group's eyes.

Hopefully what deterred the Sith last night was the bodyguard, and he can do it again tonight.

IMO, if you forget to vote/ do not vote, you should say "sorry", shut the fuck up, and wait until the next day.

Not talking a lot is much different than not doing ANYTHING.

Impossible in the sense that he couldn't have known you and vice versa, absolutely.

Not impossible that one of you could have known both yourself and not the other, while the one in the dark was trying to save his own ass.

I still say it's impossible. If he's a Jedi, sith sympathizer or not, and I'm a sith. There's no way

1.) we could communicate or
2.) that we would both know our roles. I could buy one or the other being able to do so, but not both of us.

If you'd like to pursue that, by all means, get nowhere fast.

That's what I'm saying. You couldn't have been in complicity with one another. That doesn't prevent you from both being Sith or Sith sympathizers.

I do not believe you are a Sith, however. Just pointing out that the scenario isn't ludicrous from a logical perspective.

That is an assumption, but do we know that for certain? Also if you didn't know, then what about the situation would cause people to have a change of heart?

Understood.

I'm lost, honestly. I don't know what you're saying.

As for certainty? I'm about 100% certain that would never happen. Besides, earlier today neither dubb or I was on the radar. If I were to fabricate this story, I'd certainly at least wait until

1) I had converted dubb, if possible.

2) The smoke had cleared from the impending clash between barkeep and hoops, which in all honesty, I was looking forward to seeing today.

I certainly wouldn't have let a Sith or sympathizer die if I don't have to.

Ardent, I will admit that I may not be clearly communicating my conserns about you. I guess my main point is that just because Dubb turned out to be bad does not mean that you are not also bad (whether you two were aware of each other or not). Your general attitude this game just seems so similar to the last game that it has me thinking you are guilty again.

You'd be wrong, but there seems to be no convincing you.

Fortunately for you, stkelly, I doubt I live very long. I imagine the Sith don't want the Jedi circle of trust starting.

I'd watch your own back as well...your accusations and my death will point the finger at you.

That is where you are wrong. I will freely admit that I am not very good at this game. So I may be looking at everything completely wrong, and I know it, so I will continue to look for other clues, as well as try to see what others are able to point out and decipher.

like I said before my vote for Dubb. I believed AE then and I believe him now. I don't think he is playing any different from past games that I have played with him as a good guy. Dubb was and that is what drew me to him. In my opinion dubb must have know or had a clue on someone who was a sith and was trying to protect him/them. It now looks like everyone wants to go after Barkeep/hoops today, which if you look at vet players it would seem odd to want to take them out, but it is also odd that the sith haven't eliminated them if they are truley good. I guess we'll see what the night actions bring and go from there.

Yep. I think that is possible, too.

Since it worked so well last time:

Where oh where is our "master" with the results?

Hoops and i made an impression last game it seems :p

Heh, I thought I'd be dead by now.

Well I have about an hour of internet time later, around 5:30 or so, before lynch. Otherwise I'm out for the day. I had been hoping to have the morning to defend myself and do my attack. I hope I am still alive come 11:30.

LMAO.




stkelly, I'm also glad to hear your son is ok.

That was an interesting choice for the Sith. Schmidty is alway really quiet and really hard to get a read on. It seems as though there were better choices for them.

I'm really intrigued by the fact that Hoops and Barkeep are both still alive.

Well, a brief scanning of Schmidty's posts don't reveal awhole lot. It doesn't seem as though he was casting suspicion on anyone, at least enough to get killed, so maybe that's why the Sith killed him (because they knew we wouldn't have many leads following his death).