Not to mention actual physical violence and having to put family members into hiding. Actually, I wasn't going back that far - just read about 1968. But I do agree that 2000 was much worse than 2008, except some people can't even remember back that far.

Well I havnt lived as long as you so I guess my opinion shouldnt count unless of course it agrees with you, than it's fine. And please find where I used the word 'ever'...I didnt. So Myopia is an absolutely ridiculous thing to debate when I wasnt comparing my statement above to anything other than my statement above but thanks for throwing that out there Bucc. You do realize how trollish you sound?

Someone posted a link to a site with that kind of stuff many pages ago, it was ridiculous.

You realize how ignorant you sound?

oh look a Duckman sighting. Lets see what he has to say. And he apparently hit macro 4 on his keyboard.

the best part about Duckman's relationship to me is that it gets traced back all the way to his support for Rumsfeld (and W) and my lack of support for Rumsfeld (and W). Crazy how that transitioned out of politics and into his psyche in regards to other things involving me at FOFC (and Real Life for him). Strange to me but that's Duckman's world.

Got anymore pictures of you and your friends to show how wonderful you are?


What a giant piece of shit you are!

Show me a fucking quote that I explicitly supported Rumsfield, POS.

not worth my time.

So says the hypocrite.

how are you and your friends doing on your Facebook page that has pictures on it of you and them? BTW that's not a bad thing in my opinion and Im glad you have a ton of friends who support you in your pursuit of being a teacher (there was a thread about that I think) and helping out kids.

DOLA

You know in retrospect it probably wasnt our differences on Rumsfeld (youre right), I believe it was your condonement of the behaviour(s) in Iraq and support of the war (and my attacks on the field manual in regards to torture). I think, IIRC, that to boil it down to the differences on Rumsfeld would be inaccurate and wrong but than somehow you twisted it into me being a liar and living a lie and stuff and being different on here than I am in real life. Good times.

Anyways, no need to hijack the thread as the debate about one of the worst run campaigns ever (myopic, perhaps, but W's 2 campaign's were 2 of the best run ever), Obama's patriotism, and polling....is very interesting stuff. At least more interesting than your hatred for a person youve never met.

Flasch, you're looking stupid. I disagree with Duckman on plenty, but he's been fairly intellectually honest as long as I can recall here, and has admitted when he has been wrong on the issues.

I didnt say he's wrong, just silly for hating me for the reasons he does and pointing out the history of it which I again think is silly to actually have hatred for. Needless to add, I dont hate him by any means or anyone on the FOFC for that matter.

Edit to add: BubbaWheels did get on my nerves but i still didnt hate him.

back on track:

McCain draws bipartisan criticism for 'robo calls' - Yahoo! News

It seems the robocalls ARE something that the parties can reach across party lines on.

I just love the whole "Obama has never answered the questions on this relationship" when he has many times and been collaborated by many sources. What they mean to say is "Obama hasn't answered the questions the way we like."

Yeah, McCain's on the ropes and I cringe at what the next 3 weeks will be like.

you and me both and you know the strangest part is that I dont think it had to be anything like this. It's as if the week in which he chose Palin was the beginning of some sort of bizarro world. His management team truly have been exposed as inept IMO and it's a shame because it truly seemed to go down a path it didn't have to for his campaign.

Let's say that all undecided votes go to McCain and somehow McCain wins. Or, worse yet, suppose Obama wins the popular and loses the electoral...

How bad would Obama supporters be? Will we literally see rioting throughout the country?

I hope not, my view is that whomever gets the most votes deserves to be the President (obviously I was a bit upset with how Florida turned out last time with the whole stop the count stuff) but when all is said and done and all the votes are counted (accurately) whomever wins deserves it.

This came up a couple of times in this thread, but I don't think there'd be any kind of unrest if Obama wins the popular but McCain clearly wins the electorate.

However, if there's a deciding state decided by >1000 or so votes, there will be talk of things not being on the level, and that's where I think we'd see some issues in some parts of the country.

you could have mini-riots anywhere though for any reason. A convenience store runs out of a slurpee and someone could get shot, you never know these days.

McCain is gaining some ground in the national trackers. The RCP average is now +6.5 for Obama. However, what's interesting is he hasn't made much headway in the battleground states. He's still getting hammered in PA and WI. The latest Rasmussen polls show Obama actually gaining ground in Colorado, Nevada, and Missouri.

It seems that McCain's recent strategy may only be paying off by running up the score in his solid red states. I do wonder about his strategy. He's still contesting Iowa and Pennsylvania for some reason. He's got these robocalls in Maine that were even denounced by Susan Collins. Why is he even making them in Maine in the first place?

Likewise, the GOP Senate Chair John Ensign has made some bewildering decisions. He announced they were pulling ads out of of Louisiana, then changed his mind. Then he announces they're gonna pull ads in Colorado, then changed his mind. So all he does is guarantee at least a full day's worth of bad press for his candidates that are already struggling.

Can it get any more divisive? I honestly dont understand McCain's strategy right now:
McCain aide says he's strong in 'real' Virginia - Yahoo! News

Palin's been using "real" as well... are they trying to bait the race-card to be played?

dunno, im baffled.

Not only have they been saying "real Virginia", but Palin was recently talking about "pro-America" parts of the country. Glad the "OMG the other side is unpatriotic" crap we've had to endure the last 8 years from Bush is going to continue if McCain gets elected.

Got my first polling call of the season. It came out of Princeton for "a major newspaper". My guess is USA Today. The demo questions that I'm sure were geared towards the likely voter screen were interesting. There was also a section of religious questions that included asking the religion of Obama that included Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and Christian.

They will never get accurate answers if three of the options mean the same thing.

Sarah Palin On SNL With Tina Fey, Weekend Update's Alaska Rap, Baldwin And Wahlberg (VIDEO)

Amy Poehler did good work in video 2.

Sarah Palin did a very good job!

Those were great and Palin dancing is a classic moment on SNL. If on ly they could get us to watch the whole show.

Damn.

Things might turn ugly on Election Day. In Wisconsin it already has:


Assaulting a 58 year old woman... wow. Unlike the Republicans' economic policies it looks like their hate-filled rhetoric does have a trickle-down effect.

Colin Powell is supposed to announce that he's endorsing Barack Obama on MTP today.

It happened a few minutes ago for those on the East Coast.

Boo yah, Game set match:


Colin Powell endorses Barack Obama for president - Yahoo! News

I sincerely hope that this moment, which I think is a game changer, allows McCain (Palin) to run a campaign that takes a positive tone until the end (whatever the end is). I hope but I know I may be naiive.

Unless you're in Atlanta I guess. It still has 10 minutes before coming on. Thanks for the spoiler. Gosh! :D

Huh, I thought Meet the Press was 9 a.m. local time across the country. Anyway it's all over the cable networks and internet by now.

The Drudge Report is so subtle:

more likely you will run into these isolated cases as the "get out the vote" continues. more door to door = more exposure to crazies in their lairs. it's hard to blame either party for the actions of one person.

But they do it all of the time. It's so easy to stand apart and point a finger at a bad action and say "see, that's what all of you are like".

By the way, I can see Powell's reasons being persuasive.

I never implied that all Republicans are hate-mongers that assault 58 year old women.

I did not imply that you did. Sach was just making a general observation that I agree with.

Pajamas Media » Obama Supporter Assaults Female McCain Volunteer in New York

Looks like a middle aged female McCain supporter was attacked by an Obama supporter. Too bad it happened in New York City, far away from the networks and major media outlets that could report on such a story. :p

There are nutjobs on both sides... in fact, isn't that part of the problem these days? Too many nutjobs in general? :)

Obama campaign to announce that they raised over $150 million in September Holee shit. The previous high was like $87 million in one month.

I was joking about the spoiler. I have no idea why Atlanta has it on later.

I would think all that money being raised by the political parties could go to better use instead of paying for commercials and buy time that everyone is sick of (not to mention the junk mail), as well as to bribe the population to do their duty. But money talks and all is fair in the war for political supremacy.

isnt it possible neither were attacked actually?

of course it is, but I don't doubt this will happen. The fact is, as far as politics, it should be irrelevant. unfortunately, it won't be.

BTW in agreement of Bucc somewhat I wonder if the long Obama TV "ad" could result in a bit of fatigue. The whole ROI theory which truly was proven by Palin in this campaign as valid. If the 'ad' isnt done well it could result in a bit of that 'Im sick of this crap already' attitude.

I actually go one step further in saying the better use should not go to political campaigning but to the many needs in this country and world.

Yeah, we've some some crazies too, no shocker there.

I love that website by the way, it's very entertaining. Some of the people commenting on articles make Sean Hannity look like a Daily Kos poster. I'll definitely bookmark that one for Election Night and the aftermath.

I buy that but until someone is elected im not sure either campaign can see beyond that.

The stakes are too high for people to vote for McCain simply because of Obama fatigue. These guys have been hitting it out of the park for months now more often than not, I think the ad is high risk, high reward but...surely they need to have someone planned to put a coda on this presidential race.

But Obama doesnt need high risk/reward right now. Steady and slow wouls suffice if the polls are true.

Polls are not reflective of the generational shift and so, I'm inclined not to believe them. Especially not this year.

I'm in that camp too. I keep thinking the election will be closer than people think, but some of the things i hear about the groundswell of Obama support with the young voters make me think that there will be a lot of "we didn't expect that" from the experts after it's over.

Should they only poll those of a particular generation or should they stick with a representative sample of all likely voters? Besides, there was one poll that showed McCain doing well with the 18-24 group.

A ton of yard signs, window signs and bumper stickers endorsing McCain have been spray-painted, ripped apart, and defaced in other ways around here. Vehicles have been dented and painted too. That just goes to show you how mature and open-minded liberals around here are.

I'm not voting for either candidate, I'm voting for crazy-ass Ron Paul, but I hope Obama fucking loses. He, and his supporters are beyond obnoxious. It's like a communist revolution around (and I assume other places as well).

A bit of vandalizing idiots on both sides.

Just watched the episode. Just classic.

Following up from a post a few pages back, Democratic House nominee El Tinklenberg has now raised $450,000 in 24 hours since incumbent Michelle Bachmann's McCarthyist rant on Hardball, exceeding what he had raised in the past three months and making up nearly a third of his total fund-raising to date.

He's down a few points in the polls, I'd love seeing that woman voted out of office.

St. Cloud Times

True, which makes it so irritating when either side tries to paint the opposition with the brush of the extreme. We see more liberals doing that in this thread, just because there's more liberals here, I guess.

I really don't understand why Powell endorsing Obama was supposed to be a big deal. He's been supposed to have done it for months.

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement of Obama, OTOH, is far more significant.

If the Tribune hadn't, they may have been faced with even more declining subscriptions and revenues.

The Chicago Tribune's endorsement is significant insofar as it is the first time they've endorsed a Dem (they even endorsed Ike against Adlai). However, it is unlikely that it will translate to many votes. Not many people will know this fact. The few that pass by an article mentioning this will see "Chicago" and assume it was a given.

The Powell endorsement may have been rumored for a while, but rumors certainly don't translate to votes as much as an official endorsement that will be talked about in the press all week long. Given that Virginia and Florida are two big swing states, if this endorsement dips into McCain's advantage among the military voters just a little bit, it could be significant.

It's not so much Powell's endorsement as the way he tore down the McCain campaign and the current Republican establishment. The question is whether Powell's critique of what McCain has become will resonate with swing voters.

bullseye

just watched MTP...Powell absolutely eviscerated the Republican party -- pretty shocking for someone who was widely talked about as a potential candidate 2 elections ago, and someone who was a key member of the administration as recently as 3 years ago

As I've said elsewhere in this thread...the Republican party, simply put, isn't the Republican party as it should be.

Which was something that found bewildering at the time and why this endorsement really doesn't come as any particular surprise.

to you. but i think you are vastly more intelligent and well-informed than the people whose eyebrows this endorsement might raise.

Heh, while that sounds nice & I appreciate it and all, I'm not sure how much intelligence would be needed to anticipate this move. A little common sense maybe but that's about it I think.

believe me, i don't think the endorsement itself is worth much, but if the whole interview gets playing time on the news, or in obama-commercials, i think there are some pretty good soundbites

You could be right but at this point it seems to be little more than a small dab of icing on a fairly large cake.

eh, just a disgruntled ex-employee like all the rest.

say this to yourself and give the Jon response please lest we all be disappointed.

Huh?

you make a comment about people having 'common sense' and I expected if you'd read that typed out from me you wouldve had some witty sharp tongued comment. I fed it back to you on a platter and want to see you hit it out of the park...I mean it is your sweet spot :)

Flasch, you're babbling. Let me see if I can help though, what the hell, the bandwidth cost is minimal.

Anybody paying the slightest bit of attention should have seen this coming, just by applying a little common sense; i.e. in this case take the evidence at hand and see how it might be applied to a given question.

Powell was always a RINO at most (would have been a good philosophical running mate for McCain ironically enough). His endorsement of Obama was predictable enough and by the time we reached this stage the only suspense was whether or not he wanted to have a few more minutes of attention. Obviously he did so he publicly jumped on the bandwagon as it passed by (or before it passed him by).

I don't particularly go for the "disgruntled ex-employee" theory though. He never should have been (as SOS) an employee in the first place - he knew that and most people on the inside seem to have known that (albeit later than they should have figured it out). I don't think he's any less "gruntled" today than he was yesterday, or now versus a year ago, or since he was fired versus before he was fired. In other words, I don't think this has anything to do with his ex-employee status (as disgruntled ex-employee would imply), he was never gruntled in the first place.

When Powell was mentioned was a presidential candidate a few years ago, there were much discussions as to which party. Don't you guys remember that at all?

I do. He picked Republican as his party at that time, but he was far from a classic Republican. This really isn't that big a shock.

Jan 7, 2008:

403 Forbidden

June, 2008:

globeandmail.com: National

This about as shocking as Joe Liebermann announcing he's voting for McCain. The only thing real surprising is how Powell (who's been "anti-political" for 8 years) is allowing himself to be used as a political pawn this late in the game. Still, it's his right - you just have to wonder if he decided to vote for Obama before the summer but was convinced to hold his endorsement until the final weeks as an "ace in the hole". Given his comments on the republican party, I think this is probably the case. And while some of his comments have merit, the timing causes me to lose some respect in Powell.

I think the significance of Powell's endorsement is that it will probably drive the news cycle for the next 2-3 days (giving McCain that much less time to earn any gamechanging/substantial press). It will probably also give some folks that were up in the air feel like it is okay to trust Obama, since Powell is pretty well-respected.

Next time some one brings up ACORN to me, this is what I'll respond with

GOP voter registration fraud case leads to arrest - Los Angeles Times

SACRAMENTO -- The owner of a firm that the California Republican Party hired to register tens of thousands of voters this year was arrested in Ontario late last night on suspicion of voter registration fraud.

State and local investigators allege that Mark Jacoby fraudulently registered himself to vote at a childhood California address where he no longer lives so he would appear to meet the legal requirement that signature gatherers be eligible to vote in California.

Jacoby's arrest by state investigators and the Ontario Police Department comes after dozens of voters said they were duped into registering as Republicans by his firm, Young Political Majors, or YPM. The voters said YPM tricked them by saying they were signing a petition to toughen penalties against child molesters. The firm was paid $7 to $12 for every Californian it registered as a member of the GOP.

Several agencies had launched investigations into Jacoby's activities, including the Los Angeles County district attorney's office, which issued the warrant for his arrest earlier this month on felony charges of voter registration fraud and perjury.

Efforts to reach Jacoby were unsuccessful.

Prediction: The biggest issue on election day will not be voter fraud but polls needing to close and people not getting to vote for various reasons (long lines, running out of supplies, malfunctions, inadequate id, etc.).

Bingo.

And if anyone thinks this wasn't timed, have a look at where Obama was today right near Fort Braggs.

Dumb question- would you be in favor of publicly funded campaigns?

SI

I think there will be a fraud angle to this, still. Again, there are voting machine issues as well as your usual smattering of voter disenfranchisement.

SI

No, not in favor of government subsidization, especially for a fundamental right as free speech. In some states, public funding laws only enforces a two-party system and make it hard for minority or independent parties to gain a foothold. My comment was based on the candidates and their organizations/parties begging for money that, in part, goes for TV commercials (ugh) and junk mail. And to the voters encouraging this process, which just feeds the downward spiral. It wasn't that long ago in which candidates did not start campaigning until the beginning of the election year. Now it's a continuous cycle (for both president and Congress) that the next election/re-election campaign starts when the current one is over. Such a waste of time and money that goes towards selfishness and greed.

Yeeeah... I think this late in the game, it'll really have little to no effect on election day.

Arles, this doesn't really make sense, and is a little insulting to Powell. I mean, if he was just being used as an "ace in the hole", wouldn't he have announced this endorsement after the GOP convention when everyone was ethusiastic about Palin and you guys were having alot of fun with how bad
the Obama campaign was being run? That certainly would've blunted some of Palin's momentum and stopped Obama's slide in the polls.

Maybe he did decide a while ago, but was uncertain if he wanted to make it public because he really respected McCain. Maybe he wanted to wait and make sure he could speak eloquently on the matter so people wouldn't think he was doing it just because of race. Or maybe he really did decide recently. Some of his reasons included stuff that happened recently. Sure, he could be lying through his teeth, but I'd think if anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to honesty and integrity, it is Colin Powell.

Polls still show the one weakness Obama has among voters (and the only thing McCain leads him on) is foreign policy. I don't see how you could say that one of the most famous military leaders in recent American history endorsing a candidate like that wouldn't have an effect on election day. That truly baffles me. But I've been wrong before.

You don't think that two weeks before election day the vast majority of military people have made up their minds on this issue? They aren't going to magically change as a result of Powell endorsing Obama. Who exactly is it swaying this late in the game? I doubt the few undecideds were going to be swayed by an endorsement.

Hell, I don't think people are going to believe Obama is better on foreign policy just because Powell says so!

Something like the Tribune has a much greater effect because its far more deeply Republican than Powell was thought to be. Now, one could say that it is because they know Obama is going to win and win big, but that hasn't swayed them before.

And here it comes...

I figured this was gonna happen. The race to discredit Colin Powell has started, and the first to line up is Rush Limbaugh

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonath...d.html?showall


A couple things I want to note here. Limbaugh is clearly an idiot. Powell is pro-choice. That is well known. Therefore, I don't see why it is surprising that he would not want to see conservative justices appointed.

What does the Reagan stuff have to do with anything? Is Rush suggesting you can't be an admirer of Reagan and dislike the current direction of the GOP? There are several conservative writers that have recently suggested otherwise.

Also, I certainly don't think McCain agrees with this, and he gave what I thought was a dignified response to the announcement. But I fear that Rush's statement here isn't going to be the last we hear of this from the far right wing.

The Tribune endorsement is simply about economics. About 80% of their readers are for Obama (greater Chicago area) and there would be a pretty big outcry if they endorsed McCain. I have a ton of family in the Chicago area and all are for Obama and very edgy about the election right now. There's a ton invested in him in the Chicago area and anything even remotely critical about him is getting lambasted. If Obama was from Pennsylvania instead of Illinois, I doubt the Trib would have endorsed him.

Just an foreigner's view of the race...

Can anyone, in good conscience, vote for McCain and not fear the fact that there is a high likelihood that Sarah Palin could be the next President of the United States?

It's funny how McCain has been attacking Obama's inexperience in foreign affairs and military matters when he chose Palin as his VP.

I can't help but feel that the world will be a better place with Obama and the democrats in power.

Frankly, I think that's BS. It may fly if the paper had a different history, but it has NEVER endorsed Democrat for President prior to this year. Even Adlai Stevenson, who was a native of Illinois, didn't get the nod. The Trib is well known to be a Republican paper, so if they endorsed McCain, no one would even bat an eye.

Just as an aside to my rants on polling weights, I noticed that Zogby polling uses voter weighting in their polls that mirrors party turnout from the previous elections. As of the latest polls, Zogby shows roughly a 3 point Obama lead while the rest of the polls show a 6-8 point lead. Zogby should show a pretty good indicator of whether Democratic turnout increases in this election and what the results will be if they don't turn out in record numbers as Democratic pundits will have you believe.

I do think there are a couple of developments over the weekend that could have some effect on the election from a race standpoint. First, there's a column out of Illinois reporting that Obama is demanding that an African-American be his replacement if he wins.

Who would replace Obama's Senate seat? :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Michael Sneed

Second, Obama was endorsed by Powell. On its face, it's certainly not a surprise as he's always been considered to be similary to Liberman, except in reverse. With that said, some of his comments and his endorsement could lead to a backlash against Obama. There could be a perceived notion that African-Americans are trying to pull the political rug out from under the established powers in the U.S. There are still a lot of people that will vote out of ignorance on both sides of the issue. Obama needs to tread as lightly as he can to avoid a race backlash. The move to make sure an African-American takes his seat would not be a good first step.

I think there are two camps on that issue and, frankly, that's why she was brought in.

The first is those more towards the center who like McCain and what a lot of us refer to as "the old John McCain"- all the cliches about him being a maverick, reaching across party lines, and doing things for the good of the country. They are scared to death of a Palin presidency, along the lines of someone asking Joe Lieberman about her choice as VP and him saying something to the tone of "John just better not die".

Then there are those within the more conservative branches of the GOP who would almost welcome Palin. They see McCain as a RINO (Republican in Name Only) who really doesn't represent their views but he's better than the Democrat alternative. Palin is a lot like a female version of Dubya- except instead of faslely claiming to be a uniter across party lines, she claims to be a maverick. Instead, both are just intellectually uncurious power hungry and power expanding idealogues from off the deep end of their party. Those are your core voters in the GOP who would prefer that approach.

As to the last part about the world being a better place with the Dems in power. Well, that's going to illicit all sorts of responses ;)

SI