I think we're still at the point where no one is sure if they've been exposed or not, right? Like odds are if you went into the grocery story this week, there's a decent chance that someone with COVID was there

SI

I finally got my 84 year old mother an appointment for next week for Shot #1. She had been on a waitlist for a few weeks now, but the state health department has started offering more appointments at more sites, and snagged one :)

J&J to ship 20M of their vaccines (single shot) by end of March, pending FDA EUA. Glad to see even more vaccine getting out to the public in short order.

Responsible action would be to stay home, but if you have to, wearing a mask should be a sign of "I'm contagious so stay the hell out of my personal space".

Unfortunately the US doesn't have anything that guarantees paid sick leave so it's not always an option.

We're in such good company as: Syria, Liberia, North Korea, Somalia, and Mozambique when it comes to that distinction.

Eaglefan has covid....post things to cheer him up!

We <3 u EF!!!!

Oh no. :( Sorry EF, hope you heal soon. You're probably still a wolf too. ;)

In the U.S. staying home isn't possible for a lot of workers.

Best wishes EF. Hope you get over it quickly.

Especially when you consider most of those jobs involve working with the public. Restaurants, retail, etc...

when I worked in restaurants, if you were sick it was on you to find someone to cover your shift. I can't tell you how many times I served drinks hopped up on Dayquill and bourbon.

Tennessee state investigation uncovers possible vaccine theft in Shelby County, children getting COVID-19 vaccine

I feel like this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to vaccine mismanagement.

It's been shady in quite a few places in Georgia. One county got caught so far but ... well let's just say that I know about at least one other (and it ain't my own)

I am surprised that this information made it into the public domain tbh.

Alright J&J, make it happen. Don't know why you are 2+ months slower than the others but just start ramping up your manufacturing facilities. Efficacy is not as good as the other two, but proven to significantly reduce serious illness and deaths so good enough for me.

AP is reporting 96M distributed with 73M jabbed or 76%. Back a week ago it was 73M for 58M or 79%. So still approx 7+ days of supplies hanging around not doing anything.

GA is still in Phase 1a. Although we are not eligible for 1a, I still check my county website pretty much everyday to see if we've moved on. The appt app is still turned off. Checking CVS, it shows "fully booked".

My experience is just one data point but do think currently the problem is not supply but the last mile. With a more in-tuned administration 5+ weeks in, the last mile shouldn't be an issue IMO. There is not enough creative minds applied to this problem nor accountability.

FWIW, some stats.

In GA, 980K cases with 16,756 deaths =1.7% fatality
In US, 28.6M cases with 512K deaths = 1.8% fatality
In World, 64.3M cases with 2.53M deaths = 2.2% fatality

COVID has caused us to deal with all kinds of new awkward social scenarios - like everyone's varying tolerance for interacting in light of various sliding scale factors of distance, indoor/outdoor, size of group, masks, etc.

Vaccine deployment is now one too. Is it morally OK to get the vaccine as soon as your state procedure allows, even if you are in one of the categories as part of kind of a a loophole?

My girlfriend is a manager at a grocery store, she's worked full time at her physical job, this entire time. Perhaps one of the more COVID-dangerous jobs there is, because hospitals and clinics have more ability to manage risks and their interactions with people. Grocery stores are always fighting with people to even put a mask on.

Society loved grocery workers those first few weeks, but they've kind of been forgotten as frontline workers. No vaccine for her for at least a few months here. But we have a friend of a friend who works in for pharmacy that is a part of a grocery chain, she has been working from home since March. She's been vaccinated because I guess everyone who works for a pharmacy is considered a front-line medical worker. My girlfriend is annoyed, both at the system, and at the friend of a friend for choosing to get the vaccine so early. My general thought has been that I don't care about the order, I just want to see all the vaccines out as quickly as possible, because vaccines are more about general society defense than saving any individual person. But I also feel her annoyance, especially on behalf of grocery workers generally, who are absolutely essentially but are dropping down both vaccine lists and societal appreciation.

And I admit every time I see one of my many, many New England teacher Facebook friends bragging about their vaccines and hashtagging things like #vaccinateeducators, when I know they haven't been teaching in person most of this time, and that transmissions in schools has tended to be very low, I feel the kind of unreasonable annoyance that you wouldn't share with anyone and you feel a little guilty to have.

It's kinda strange that the states that have the teachers working virtually and don't intend to change that anytime soon are vaccinating, but states that are already open or getting ready to open aren't in any rush to vaccinate.

Georgia has finally opened vaccines to teachers starting March 8. Many school systems have been open or are just about to open.

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FWIW wife's GA county has been doing in-person since last Fall. There's been some times when they did remote and kids rotated, but it's been FT with her and kids for a while now. Kids can request remote but majority are in class. Transmissions has been low but wife is wearing mask, face shield, some sort of disposable garb to work, and sanitization process after school.

No good answers but there does need to be a criteria & process. The criteria was recommended by Feds and assume there were intelligent, caring people and ethicists involved. There are some hiccups on the fairness and people cutting lines (see soul cycle trainer) but overall, I think the criteria is good.

The frakking process (aka last mile) is what I'm bitching about (see my above post).

So we ate inside restaurants last night and this AM. That marks the 5th and 6th times we've done that since COVID started. Since South Carolina barely shut down, we've held out far longer than most people we know.

Dinner was definitely too crowded for my liking, but no one else was within at least 12 feet of us and we masked when not eating, so I was only mildly on edge. Literally no one else at breakfast, so not too worried there.

My wife is fully vaxxed, my in-laws will be by mid-March, my parents and their spouses are all good. We're pretty much going to return to normal for us, since most of the adherence was for the grands and my wife's heart condition. While I'm definitely more overweight than I'd prefer, if I get it I get it. At best my shot isn't coming until late Summer, but even an introvert like me is getting tired of living on the couch. I'll mask and distance, but we're pretty much done not going out and about.

For me, it annoys me more the more personal it is. I don't have an issue with most people who have been vaccinated so far. I do have a slight issue with the grocery workers and teachers but I recognized the "appreciation" those frontline groups were getting was less than genuine early on. I have the biggest issue with those people I know are deniers, are very comfortable taking huge risks and tried to shame me for not taking similar risks or are not worried because they are young and the virus only affects old people rushing to the front of the line. Those are the fuckers I have no time for. I get it though. This is not a moral process. Get in where you fit in.

I hear ya. It's been such a lost year. That really weighs on me. Important things we'll never get back. I feel my tolerance for risk increasing by the day. We'll have warm weather in a few weeks, I'll definitely be looking to revitalize my social life with some outdoor stuff at least.

This is me. And the wife I guess. She's a sub teacher, hasn't subbed since Covid happened but now will because she's got the vaccine. Kentucky has opened it up to CDC essential workers which includes attorneys. I'm getting it. If they call me and ask to reschedule because they have a waiting list of elderly or chronic illness people, I'd gladly do it. But I'm taking the fact that I can get an appointment as meaning they have more supply than demand, and I'm taking care of my family first. My parents and my wife's parents are in the their mid-70s and want to visit. I'm going to protect them and my kids if I have the opportunity.

I took my first trip out of state and first time sleeping in a bed outside my home since the shutdown about a year ago. It amazes me that considering how close KY and TN are, how different people are handling it. KY is not exactly liberal and certainly you have your anti-Democrat governor people, but in terms of what I see out and about, people do the right thing about 98% of the time.

I go down to TN, and very few people were wearing masks, and those that were just did the minimal barely over the lips and taking them down at any opportunity. Hotel has signs every 50 feet and people just walk wherever, no masks. I went to get takeout and I've never seen so many people in a restaurant - all distanced, but no masks, and basically as many as you can fit in a Firehouse Subs, for instance.

Just after I checked in, I left my room with mask on, hit the elevator button, and 2 women (probably 40 and 55) are in there, no masks, and as I am coming onto the elevator, one of them loudly and awkwardly whispers "he's wearing a mask!" like she was the guy who couldn't help but point out the dude with blue hair in the progressive commercials. Just so bizarre.

A friend of mine just drove from here in Jersey, where there is almost 100% compliance from my experience, to Key West. She said driving through Florida was totally bazaar. You wouldn't even know there was a pandemic happening. She said the further south she went the worse it got starting in NC.

That was our experience in TN back in April. I am a little surprised that it's not changed at all, but not terribly. Just imagine how KY would be right now if Bevin was still running things.

Welcome to Texas!

SI

Wife's school district sent out an email saying they would start vaccinating teachers in next couple weeks at Falcons football stadium. 2nd shots are also scheduled. Glad that's one less to worry about.

Greg Abbott. Ugh.

Just wait for goodness sake. We finally have a vaccine rolling out.

He panicked, realized he was running out of time to be the first republican governor to prematurely open his state.

It seemed inevitable that we'd all be a couple months too early on opening everything.

As someone who really wants things open for the Fall, I just hope that these premature openers don't ruin it for the rest of us.

He’s going to be the first to have to close back up.

F’n moron. We’ve played this cycle out how many times now and science is undefeated.

South Padre here I come!

The way they ignore science is mind boggling. Do they really not grasp that the reason cases are going down is because of the measures or do they just not care?

It's sad. It's not like I can't do practically anything I want to do in Texas, whether I should be able to or not. Businesses have been open all along, ever since about last May. There's some minor capacity restrictions (75% currently, I believe) but they aren't really enforced. But let's remove those last pretend steps and signal that you don't need a mask anymore, never mind how important it is that people wear them. Or that our numbers are gradually going down but look like they fell off a cliff because of the ice storm and slow reporting of data (or lack of testing availability when, you know, no one could go anywhere or have power). The real frustration is that it flips the default from "mask" to "no mask" for the people who don't really want to wear them but follow the rules or social norms.

Gotta distract from his utter failure with the ice storm, I guess.

SI

The mask is the giveaway.

There are risk/reward reasons to open businesses. Reasonable people can disagree about that.

But the removal of the mask mandate is pure MAGA pandering. An absurdly low burden on people for a huge gain in preventing transmission.

Abbott isn’t Rick Perry, he knows full well what the science says to do and why. He also knows that he will never be able to convince his voters that it’s not just egg-headed liberals telling them what to do. This is the political equivalent of a manufacturer identifying a deadly flaw in their product and running the numbers only to find that retooling would cost more than the lawsuits. Grab the money/headlines now and let the lawyers/public deal with the fall out later.

Can private businesses still mandate masks?

I'm sure they can, not sure if they will fight cities that try to.

Floodgates opening, this country is so fucked.

Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves has announced the state is lifting its county mask mandates and allowing businesses to operate at full capacity starting tomorrow https://t.co/iHiUi13Bxj

— CNN Breaking News (@cnnbrk) March 2, 2021

Both, but generally they think the measures are worse than whatever rise in cases that results.

Why do people not believe that maybe the goal is to get more cases?

Texas reopening is just in time for the spring break tourist money.

Texas was just behind NY in new cases yesterday and still averages 5 times the number of cases when restrictions went into place. I am sure this will end well with spring break coming up.

Better be careful guys, Edward is going to come in and yell at us for being too political.

One can conjecture anything they darn well please, but I'm of the mindset that when people tell you who they are, believe them. I don't run into a lot of people saying 'I want the virus to run amok so that group XYZ is hurt' or whatever. I do run into a lot of them who think the restrictions are an absurd overreaction, that the vaccine is pointless and useless, and so forth. That's also the response you generally get with wider studies. Occam's Razor.

Masks are so easy that when they are no longer required, we should still encourage people t wear them when they feel ill.

They are telling you who they are by doing everything in their power to increase cases.

There are many reasons why people would advocate for those actions though. You'd be right if there was only one possible such reason, but that just isn't so.

Nah he'll just make another thread for it.

I didn't see any SJW or BLM or Trump discussions above?

Be glad to start a thread for you though.

Good progress with the vaccines ramping up + 3rd vaccine now. It won't ever be quick enough but May is better than July (and a heck of a lot better than developing countries). On the other hand, May probably means July before everyone gets their shots.

I like the emphasis on teachers for sure.

I don't quite get why he threw May out there - I don't see the logic there. Though I suppose it might be that we're going so fast that they figure by May, everyone who wants one will have one because 30% of people don't want one.

SI

The U.S. will collectively have the supply by May, that seems pretty clear, but it will take a while longer to actually distribute it.

I'm still not expecting mine until June or July. We have a trip planned for June in Boston, my girlfriend's family is going to meet some of my family, and it'll the first time I'll have seen anyone I'm related to in about 2 years. There's a good chance I will be the only one of the 10 people involved not vaccinated yet. I'm still going though. That might be the last straw for my mental health if I had to sit that out. I'll keep masking up and keeping my distance. Though it would be pretty glorious if I could get a vaccine a few weeks earlier and find my way into a Red Sox game.

Vaccine distribution seems weird. Been trying to get my parents the shot for weeks with no luck. Then I read about how towns in other states are going door to door giving the shots.

5000 years from now, long after humans have moved to other mediums or died off, FOFC will still be populated only by bots trying to sell things to each other using fake pleasantries and poor grammar.

SI

The screeching on Next Door and Facebook last night and this morning is both amazing in its intensity and disheartening in its content. I guess you could say that for most interactions there. But, man, this one goes to 11.

There's a clear culture war divide (which makes it sound like there are two sides to be on reasonably), but even after pressing a number of folks, no one could tell me what will actually be open this weekend that wasn't open last weekend in this "reopening the economy". The excitement is clearly all about the oppression of face masks or something.

SI

My wife and I were discussing this last night and came to the conclusion this could very well hurt businesses. It forces them to chose a side. People who support stricter health measures aren't all of a sudden going to let their guard down, if fact I think they will get more vigilant, as the maniacs have now been let out of the asylum. On the flip side the anti maskers are going to flaunt it any way they can.

What this means is a business is going to lose a significant portion of their customer base regardless of which side they fall on. Still enforce masks, lose the anti maskers, open wide up, lose the support of the maskers. then there is the inevitable flood of fights breaking out we will see over this.

Dola- also curious how the sports leagues in Texas handle this. Are we going to get 18k indoors at a Spurs game? What could possibly go wrong.

I may be switching to the "other side" re:the reopening of the states. Is it really that big of a deal? I feel like now we are in the place we anticipated being in last year around May/June.

I know this is not the case but in theory every one will have the vaccine by June. For most people, once they are vaccinated, everything begins to goes back to normal. I feel like that was what we all said earlier. I know that will be the case for me. Those that are not vaccinated will probably continue to adhere to the same protocols that they have until they do get vaccinated.

One way or another, we have to figure out the next stage of this. COVID probably isn't going to entirely disappear, and we have no idea how long immunity from the vaccines last. There's a good chance it will be an ongoing cat-and-mouse game indefinitely. I think things CAN be back to normal by summer, but that requires us to make that choice even though COVID still exists and little outbreaks will still happen. There will always be resistance to opening anything up, and, I understand how even regular people are just getting exhausted with that. "Just a few more months". We could easily still be saying that in a few more months, and in a few more months after that, based on what our threshold and COVID risk tolerance is.

FrankJScott is no Coconut.

I have nothing to add other than I went to the gas station to get a chicken biscuit this AM (surprisingly delicious) and had to wait about 5 minutes.

All employees were masked. Of the 50 or so people who came in while I waited, I was 1 of the 3 who wore masks. At church Sunday, about 1/3 of the 150ish people there were maskless.

The South just doesn't give a shit.

I think the key words are choice and normal. I acknowledge that I have the privilege to make many choices to avoid risky COVID behaviors that others may not have. I think that the lack of choice drives most of the hesitancy that I see now. I am sure the same can be said about opening up. As far as normal goes, I don't know how we can just erase everything we have learned in the last year to go back to normal the November 2019 edition. For example, I can't imagine sitting in a packed waiting room with a bunch of sick people unmasked when I could just as easily sit in the car and have them call me when it is time to go in.

I am getting my first dose tomorrow and don't intend on changing a thing I'm doing. Still masking up, still not eating at restaurants, etc. It doesn't really change much in my mind. It's just added protection, but for how long no one can tell us and I don't even think they know whether a vaccinated person can be a "carrier." I believe all a vaccine does is stop you from getting it or from getting really sick; it doesn't necessarily mean you can't spread it. I think that's the case for all vaccines, right?

Since the vaccine was made available, I have been unable to get an appointment for either my mother or mother in law to get their first does through the state. Everything was booked up solid and/or no vaccines were available. Today the federal govt opened up one of the state's four federally funded vaccine sites. Of course, our governor did not initially want the sites calling them "FEMA camps" but that is enough on that.

Well I took my mother and mother in law down to the local FEMA camp manned by mostly Air Force personnel for what I can tell. We arrived at about 1:15pm with no appointment for either. I started my car at 1:52pm with both women receiving their 1st Pfizer doses including filling out the required paperwork on site and waiting for 20 minutes for any reactions to the injections. Both say they feel fine. I would say there were about 50-60 people in the waiting area and the end. I had a quick conversation with one of the NCOs that was there and she said that this was the smallest number of people that they had there to that point. Now I just need to get my wife hers and I will be a little bit more at ease.

When you talk about the costs associated with the pandemic, I am sensitive to that argument. Closing stores, schools, other restrictions, etc., all have a cost. Wearing an effing mask costs... what? Your manhood? It's so stupid.

Apologies if someone has already posted this one. This has some answers to many of the questions we had about the vaccination rollout. Should be available to all.

Behind America’s Botched Vaccination Rollout: Fragmented Communication, Misallocated Supply - WSJ

The good news is that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence building up that the vaccines do prevent you from being a carrier. To my knowledge, no formal studies have come out (and I'm sure that we will hear when they do). But the general trend of what people are seeing is apparently very encouraging.

My wife was able to make an appt in Alabama for both 1st and 2nd shots. Apparent they take out of state teachers.

Frakking GA.

Wife was able to make an appointment for the first shot through Publix for Monday (one day before students come into the building in Dekalb County, GA - I know it takes two weeks for immunity benefits of any shots). She's very happy. Publix had a lot of slots this morning for next week or seems.

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I was able to make an appt for Wed for a shot at Publix.

Wife called and said she found out from a co-worker that Publix was taking appts and she was able to sign up (she cancelled the AL appt). She told me the site did not ask for any eligibility info (e.g. are you a healthcare provider, a teacher, over 65+ etc.), just basic demographic info.

So I went to the site and sure enough. I was able to sign up without lying (clean conscience). I went back to the site after, everything was booked up but it said GA was going to Phase 1b next week.

In earlier readings, I did not think I qualified for 1b (which I knew included teachers) and I was eligible in Phase 2. But in reading eligibility for GA 1b, it said something like parents of X, Y, Z and X = serious asthma children. My daughter had bad asthma and uses prescription albuterol & some sort of steroid so I figure that I'm qualified here.

The ethical dilemma is that my daughter is a college kids (so is she still a child?), asthma has gotten better but she does keep the albuterol handy for once-in-a-while incidents. I think arguably I qualify but am amazed they are willing to give shots to "parents of" but not the kids with the actual asthma. If they were, I would give my daughter my slot.

I think I'll take the shot but can't help but feel I gamed the system some. What do you guys think?

Given the corruption that I have seen with vaccine distribution so far, I can't really get too worked up about your situation Edward. It feels like one of those letter of the law vs spirit of the law situations. If they say you are eligible, then you are eligible. Take the vaccine.

I wouldn't feel guilty at all, especially because you didn't lie and say you were a smoker or something. There are plenty of people who are eligible who are choosing not to get it. You also have to consider everyone vaccinated, regardless of health, age, etc....gets us closer to herd immunity.

Thanks guys. I feel better.

(If there is anyone here that thinks this is wrong, interested in hearing your opinion)

BTW - I noticed in my confirmation printout that they scheduled my 2nd shot on April 7. That's a bonus and guess this is the Moderna or Pfizer and not the 1-shot J&J.

I somewhat see his argument but honestly think he is being stupid and short-sighted. I would not be happy if I lived in Detroit.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/healt...ine/index.html

Just remember, if you give away your slot, then some asshole like me could get the shot instead of you and no one wants that.

I've seen a lot of talk of J&J as a second-class vaccine.

I think that the public health folks really need to get ahead of this. We lose a LOT of effectiveness if folks stay unvaccinated so they can wait for the "best."

Uncle Sam (actually my local VA) just sent me a text saying they have appointments available next week for the vaccine. I have my appointment next week. So the feds say I am eligible, the state says nah.

Well, let's be honest here. J&J is second class in efficacy when compared to Moderna & Pfizer. It has the benefit of 1-shot and also something like 100% prevents death.

Regarding the preventing death, nothing is 100% so I think they are overplaying that. Also, as some here have commented, there are serious side effects for "some" (I don't think we know the %) that recover such as loss of taste. With this in mind, it makes sense that "all things held equal" that I would very much prefer higher efficacy.

But all things are not equal, so yeah, IMO J&J is second class but still pretty game good all things considered. So I wouldn't hesitate to get it. I assume I can pay for Moderna & Pfizer out of pocket 6 months down the road or something.

I assume you signed-up with the VA to get a place in line? or did they just text you out of the blue?

Brought up the question about vaccination for military. It does seem military are Phase 1a (or their own special phase). Below article below is as of Feb 2. Total US active and reserves are < 2.5M so the 800K and % of does far exceeds non-military. Makes sense to me especially if you are cooped up in the Pentagon, or in a ship/sub, or in a foreign country.

This is why so few troops have gotten the COVID-19 vaccine

I get healthcare from the VA so they is why they texted me.

The military does have their own categories with the military. For example, people deploying overseas were eligible before those that were not and so on. This is why I was questioning the transitioning through the phases in the general public. Since it is still voluntary, if the 23 year old E-3 deploying overseas decided she did not want the vaccine, that is cool. A 45 year old E-8 in a different category might get the call to get that dose if they want it.

FYI, my wife who has an appointment at Publix got a call today from Publix asking about her eligibility (since she's under 65). She told them she was a teacher and they said thanks. You may be getting a call a few days before your appointment, asking the same thing.

Thanks. My wife did get a call also yesterday and she confirmed she was a teacher. But I have not yet received a call.

I can honestly say parent of a severe asthmatic child who has albuterol prescription and has taken steroids.

That may get you in. I am actually not sure what is the criteria in terms of caretaker. Hopefully that suffices.

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In earlier eligibility stuff I read, I did not see the "parents of" below qualification. But this is from the Publix site.

COVID Vaccine | Georgia Department of Public Health

Hearing a lot of people now getting shots at various locations. I'm getting very optimistic for what the summer is going to look like.

Since we have been working from home, my company turned our office into a clinic and vaccinated over 5,000 people yesterday.

The U.S. is starting to kick some serious ass on vaccinations. 2.9 million today. That pace is enough to give doses to 70% of the U.S. adult population in under 50 days. (that's if we were starting from scratch - but of course we've already given 88 million dosages.)

My state, which has not been great at dealing with COVID, but is picking up in vaccinations, had 104 new COVID cases today - our peak was 2,298 in a day on December 9. Suck it COVID!

Saw a video of Idaho kids burning a bag of used masks.

Who lets their kids play with used masks?

Who lets their kids be in Idaho?

It reminded me of the film footage of kids burning beatles albums. Same dull blank expressions

Good news on the effectiveness of just 1 (of 2) shot I guess. I don't have great perspective but the "real world study" of 57%-60% is still pretty good.

Single dose of AstraZeneca or Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine cuts hospitalization risk by more than 80%, study shows - MarketWatch
[IMG]

A single shot of either the Oxford/AstraZeneca or Pfizer vaccine works against severe infection among the over-70s with a more-than 80% reduction in hospitalisations.

When the call comes, get the jab to protect you & others. pic.twitter.com/awxJ93W4G4

— Matt Hancock (@MattHancock) March 1, 2021

[/IMG]

I don't have them at my fingertips, but I remember seeing in a couple of places that one of the potential reasons J&J showed less effective could be because part of the clinical trial was while the variants were spreading and we have inconclusive data about how well Moderna/Pfizer do against the E484K variants. It was a theory, tho, not conclusive.

SI

Did get a call from Publix. Told them not a teacher, not 65+ but parent of a child that had asthma and has taken albuterol and steroid. Said I was good to go this Wed.

Good news!

SI

J&J did their trials when more variants were out there and more overseas than Moderna/Pfizer.

People are saying you really just can’t compare the two. Moderna/Pfizer might be better. But we really don’t know right now.

We do have strong evidence that all three are very good w/very low side effects

Ohio just started including Type 2 diabetics, so got my wife an appointment for Saturday.

Wife (teacher) had her first shot today. It was Moderna, slight soreness but nothing else of note.

We celebrated with Red Robin burgers.

Man, I miss Red robin. At least once a month pre covid we would go to Red robin then the movies.