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Thomkal 11-07-2017 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 3183056)
Unless you're Donald Trump.




I'm sure he'll delete all his tweets now that he supported Gillespie

cuervo72 11-07-2017 08:39 PM

Had to work in that golf course plug.

Thomkal 11-07-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 3183059)
Danica Roem wins in Virginia, becoming first openly transgender state representative - The Washington Post

The author of a trans bathroom bill in Virginia lost his seat to a transgender woman.


what a sweet victory for Roem.

CrescentMoonie 11-07-2017 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mckerney (Post 3183056)
Unless you're Donald Trump.






JonInMiddleGA 11-07-2017 08:44 PM

Trump's (or whomever said it) comment about Gillespie not being Trump enough may not be as crazy as it sounds.

The young man (25) I mentioned seeking a state house seat here as an (R) ran to the middle, indeed his highest profile backers were the (D) mayor of Athens and a long-time black (D) county commissioner ... just got beat up by an underfunded 0% chance hispanic lawyer. He didn't make great use of his 3:1 warchest advantage, kept things generic ... and got his butt beat.

He underperformed Trump in both the conservative county in the district AND in the liberal home of the university. Turnout from the (R) side looks low, turnout from the (D) ran extraordinarily high (how much a local sales tax referendum played into that is still unclear, votes from around the county still being counted). His approach gave conservatives little reason to be motivated to vote, and it cost him -- and the party -- a seat in the legislature. The %s were virtually identical opposites in the 2 counties, the turnout difference was heavily skewed to the left, which is highly unusual.

Another curiosity about the results: vote totals swung way back in favor of election-day voting instead of early voting. Odd to see that happen when the trend has been solidly the other direction. Nothing to indicate anything untoward about that, the %s were consistent across the board, I just though the reversal of the trend was interesting from a behavioral standpoint.

miami_fan 11-07-2017 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum (Post 3183052)
Is there anyway at all that the UCLA shoplifting incident timed with the Trump east Asia tour will somehow result in a war of words between Trump and Lavar Ball?

Please tell me there is. I would find this immensely satisfying.


I second this.

JPhillips 11-07-2017 09:01 PM

If you remember the news reporter that was shot while on-air, her boyfriend won a VA delegate seat.

cuervo72 11-07-2017 09:02 PM

Man. That seems like it was like fifty notable shootings ago.

CrescentMoonie 11-07-2017 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3183074)
If you remember the news reporter that was shot while on-air, her boyfriend won a VA delegate seat.


Hurst won on a gun control platform in a strong red area. He's one of more than 10 first time D candidates to win in VA this year.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/politics...e099653f4.html

JPhillips 11-07-2017 09:11 PM

A few predictions based on tonight:

More on the fence GOPers retire instead of face this electorate

National Dems even more unlikely to compromise on anything

More GOPers, especially in the House, are willing to publicly criticize Trump

A lot of ugly GOP primaries in 2018

JonInMiddleGA 11-07-2017 09:42 PM

Got some more of the local numbers in our little microcosm

It was, in the end, about turnout (gee, does that sound familiar)
Left county turnout was 26%
Right county turnout was 22% (and 12 & 11 in counties that have just a tiny piece of this district)

It should be a gotta-show-up wakeup call for the right in GA. No bets on whether it will be.

CrescentMoonie 11-07-2017 10:00 PM

Quote:

Think of the message that Trump has sent to Republicans. Stand with him on policy and have him bad-mouth what you passed. Embrace his endorsement and see a loss followed by Trump playing down the endorsement. Embrace his endorsement and his politics, and see a loss and words of criticism.

Trump just made a bad night for Republicans much worse for himself - The Washington Post

RainMaker 11-07-2017 11:28 PM

Seems like younger voters actually got out. Wonder if they'll still be motivated in 2018.

Still think red states get redder over the next few years but those purple states like Virginia could see some upheaval.

CrescentMoonie 11-08-2017 05:56 AM

Still some uncalled races, but the VA House of Delegates may have actually flipped. Started at 66/34 R yesterday. Latest numbers look like 48/47 D with 5 uncalled/probable recounts. If they stay as they are, it's 50/50.

That's an enormous change in one night.

Edward64 11-08-2017 06:00 AM

On a side note, just my own observation and personal opinion ...

I used to enjoy watching Morning Joe because I thought they did a good job of presenting both sides. It's now bash Trump for 3 hours, and while I think Trump has alot more bad than good, its getting pretty tiresome.

And when I change to Fox and Friends for a "breath/change of fresh air", the word that comes to mind is "sniveling".

CNN was what I thought did the best job of "fair and balanced". I know alot of people thought CNN was bad even before but I never thought so. But its now leaning heavily left (although not as bad as MSNBC).

Taking aside your personal politics, has anyone found a "fair and balanced" news program (not necessarily channel).



FWIW, I also enjoy Colbert's beginning monologues & video clips, its pretty funny but there just tends to be too much, consistent let's make fun of Trump. Starting to watch Jimmy Fallon now.

Thomkal 11-08-2017 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrescentMoonie (Post 3183092)
Still some uncalled races, but the VA House of Delegates may have actually flipped. Started at 66/34 R yesterday. Latest numbers look like 48/47 D with 5 uncalled/probable recounts. If they stay as they are, it's 50/50.

That's an enormous change in one night.


That's crazy.

panerd 11-08-2017 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3183093)
On a side note, just my own observation and personal opinion ...

I used to enjoy watching Morning Joe because I thought they did a good job of presenting both sides. It's now bash Trump for 3 hours, and while I think Trump has alot more bad than good, its getting pretty tiresome.

And when I change to Fox and Friends for a "breath/change of fresh air", the word that comes to mind is "sniveling".

CNN was what I thought did the best job of "fair and balanced". I know alot of people thought CNN was bad even before but I never thought so. But its now leaning heavily left (although not as bad as MSNBC).

Taking aside your personal politics, has anyone found a "fair and balanced" news program (not necessarily channel).



FWIW, I also enjoy Colbert's beginning monologues & video clips, its pretty funny but there just tends to be too much, consistent let's make fun of Trump. Starting to watch Jimmy Fallon now.


I always say watch all the ones you mentioned for a clear picture of Washington DC. Fox shows you what really goes on with the Democrats and MCNBC/CNN show you the reality of the GOP. Put the two together and that is our government.

BYU 14 11-08-2017 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3183093)
On a side note, just my own observation and personal opinion ...

I used to enjoy watching Morning Joe because I thought they did a good job of presenting both sides. It's now bash Trump for 3 hours, and while I think Trump has alot more bad than good, its getting pretty tiresome.

And when I change to Fox and Friends for a "breath/change of fresh air", the word that comes to mind is "sniveling".

CNN was what I thought did the best job of "fair and balanced". I know alot of people thought CNN was bad even before but I never thought so. But its now leaning heavily left (although not as bad as MSNBC).

Taking aside your personal politics, has anyone found a "fair and balanced" news program (not necessarily channel).



FWIW, I also enjoy Colbert's beginning monologues & video clips, its pretty funny but there just tends to be too much, consistent let's make fun of Trump. Starting to watch Jimmy Fallon now.


Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3183106)
I always say watch all the ones you mentioned for a clear picture of Washington DC. Fox shows you what really goes on with the Democrats and MCNBC/CNN show you the reality of the GOP. Put the two together and that is our government.


LOL, pretty much this, just knowing each will add a lot of hyperbole in their attempts to prop up and bash.

I also like to go to the Al Jazeera English web site, which I think is fairly balanced most of the time and I listen to BBC news as well.

PilotMan 11-08-2017 07:28 AM

Reuters

JPhillips 11-08-2017 07:42 AM

I wonder if this will cause Fox to back off attacking any GOPer that isn't 100% pro-Trump. I don't expect them to ever go anti-Trump, but just allowing space for GOPers to distance themselves from Trump could make a difference.

Ben E Lou 11-08-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3183116)
I wonder if this will cause Fox to back off attacking any GOPer that isn't 100% pro-Trump. I don't expect them to ever go anti-Trump, but just allowing space for GOPers to distance themselves from Trump could make a difference.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Why on earth would they want to do that? They're not in the business of getting Republican/conservative candidates elected. They're in the business of making money for Fox News.

Marc Vaughan 11-08-2017 08:17 AM

I tend to watch/read the BBC as its fairly balanced in the main, I also enjoy the Guardian and the Telegraph as they have interesting articles but they lean somewhat left and right respectively.

If you're interested in bias in UK newspapers/sites this might be useful:

UK Newspaper bias chart

JPhillips 11-08-2017 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3183123)
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Why on earth would they want to do that? They're not in the business of getting Republican/conservative candidates elected. They're in the business of making money for Fox News.


But they're also in the business of friendly regulations and tax laws, and a Dem slaughter doesn't help with that. Like I said, I don't expect them to stop being all in on Trump, but perhaps they'll stop being all in on anti-anti-Trump.

QuikSand 11-08-2017 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3183140)
But they're also in the business of friendly regulations and tax laws


Not really. Keep your eye on the ball here, people. Cash money, brother.

Edward64 11-08-2017 11:04 AM

CBO says $1.7T added

GOP Tax Plan Would Add $1 Trillion To National Debt | HuffPost
Quote:

The House Republican tax reform plan would add $1.7 trillion to the U.S. national debt, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The CBO released its review of the bill, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, on Wednesday.

The figure comes in higher than the party’s own estimate of a $1.5 trillion increase.

miked 11-08-2017 12:15 PM

My students are all freaking out because in part of the new tax plan, tuition waivers are considered taxable income. So if they are at GT and their PhD advisor is paying $20k in tuition annually, or tuition is comped by the University, it will be taxable income. Awesome for attracting doctoral students who are already paid minimum wage.

QuikSand 11-08-2017 12:28 PM



BYU 14 11-08-2017 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3183154)



I guess the good news is we only get two more of these anniversary celebrations. He is such a vain motherfucker.

larrymcg421 11-08-2017 12:46 PM

I'm just glad that the DFA's moronic outburst had no affect on the VA Gov election.

CrescentMoonie 11-08-2017 01:06 PM

Satire (mostly):

Emergency DEFCON 1 Rating Declared As Trump Given 280 Characters On Twitter

JPhillips 11-08-2017 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3183141)
Not really. Keep your eye on the ball here, people. Cash money, brother.


Yeah, but Rupert and sons have a lot more going on than just Fox News.

JPhillips 11-08-2017 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miked (Post 3183151)
My students are all freaking out because in part of the new tax plan, tuition waivers are considered taxable income. So if they are at GT and their PhD advisor is paying $20k in tuition annually, or tuition is comped by the University, it will be taxable income. Awesome for attracting doctoral students who are already paid minimum wage.


My understanding is that this would also effect students who get free tuition as children of employees, so one of my main benefits will lose a lot of its value to me.

Drake 11-08-2017 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3183161)
My understanding is that this would also effect students who get free tuition as children of employees, so one of my main benefits will lose a lot of its value to me.


Me, too. I've put two (and a half) kids through college without any debt thanks to our 50% tuition benefit. Take that perk away from many educational professionals, and salary trade off for working in the educational sector vs. the private sector starts to look substantially less attractive.

CrescentMoonie 11-08-2017 05:37 PM

Should be able to read this with a private window. DOJ trying to force TW to drop CNN before approving the AT&T merger.

US regulators demand CNN sale to approve AT&T-Time Warner deal

Here's the Politico version.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...ump-cnn-244697

Ben E Lou 11-08-2017 06:35 PM

Now this is, uh, interesting...

Frank Thorp V on Twitter: "👀

Sen @BobCorker announces Authority to Order the Use of Nuclear Weapons Hearing https://t.co/XKfnj5QyW6"

cuervo72 11-08-2017 07:27 PM

Not as exciting as Ben's link, but:

Is Administration Objecting to Big Merger to Punish CNN?

BBT 11-08-2017 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3183093)
Taking aside your personal politics, has anyone found a "fair and balanced" news program (not necessarily channel).


I know you’re looking for a program, but I saw this out on Twitter last year and the topic reminded me of it. May help:


Coffee Warlord 11-08-2017 08:48 PM

CNN at the very least has moved quite a bit to the left since that graphic was made.

JPhillips 11-08-2017 08:53 PM

I saw a chart where tax increases in the GOP plan equal 99 billion and tax cuts for the top 1% equal 100 billion. It's trickle up economics.

cartman 11-09-2017 07:49 AM

A little late to the game, but I saw the perfect name for the Rand Paul/neighbor thing:

Atlas Shrubbed

albionmoonlight 11-09-2017 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman (Post 3183238)
A little late to the game, but I saw the perfect name for the Rand Paul/neighbor thing:

Atlas Shrubbed


I have no idea what happened with the Rand Paul thing. But I have loved the two reactions I've seen from folks.

(1) This is obviously a cover story; no one breaks a neighbor's ribs over lawn issues.

(2) It makes perfect sense to me that you would break a man's ribs over lawn issues.

And both sides are being completely serious. It's definitely a "there are two kinds of people . . . " sort of thing.

Ben E Lou 11-09-2017 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3183244)
I have no idea what happened with the Rand Paul thing. But I have loved the two reactions I've seen from folks.

(1) This is obviously a cover story; no one breaks a neighbor's ribs over lawn issues.

(2) It makes perfect sense to me that you would break a man's ribs over lawn issues.

And both sides are being completely serious. It's definitely a "there are two kinds of people . . . " sort of thing.

:lol:

QuikSand 11-09-2017 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3183244)
I have no idea what happened with the Rand Paul thing. But I have loved the two reactions I've seen from folks.

(1) This is obviously a cover story; no one breaks a neighbor's ribs over lawn issues.

(2) It makes perfect sense to me that you would break a man's ribs over lawn issues.

And both sides are being completely serious. It's definitely a "there are two kinds of people . . . " sort of thing.


great, great post here

QuikSand 11-09-2017 08:25 AM

Fairly long item here, but this guy (a NeverTrump R, btw) just crushes Carter Page and along the way the entire Trump battalion, part and present. Fun read.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

PilotMan 11-09-2017 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3183249)
Fairly long item here, but this guy (a NeverTrump R, btw) just crushes Carter Page and along the way the entire Trump battalion, part and present. Fun read.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare


Wow, that is one hell of an opening paragraph.

Quote:

Watching Carter Page immolate himself and incriminate a half dozen of his colleagues from the Trump-Putin 2016 campaign has been a strange, almost guilty pleasure. Profoundly disconnected, socially awkward, and reeking of late-stage virginity, he gives off the creepy Uncanny Valley vibe of a rogue, possibly murderous android or of a man with a too-extensive knowledge of human taxidermy and a soundproofed van.

mckerney 11-09-2017 11:20 AM

The Senate says they don't want to pass corporate tax cuts that will go into effect before 2019, Bill Cassidy won't vote on a tax plan that includes repealing the individual mandate.

Senate to delay corporate tax cut, breaking with Trump and House | TheHill

Tax reform by Thanksgiving not off to a good start.

mckerney 11-11-2017 09:34 AM

Trump claiming he doesn't have any time to watch TV because he's too busy reading documents might be his most absurd lie yet.

larrymcg421 11-11-2017 09:44 AM

Trump says he asked Putin again about interfering in the election and Putin denied it. Well, that's good enough for me. Let's move on to something else.

mckerney 11-11-2017 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larrymcg421 (Post 3183569)
Trump says he asked Putin again about interfering in the election and Putin denied it. Well, that's good enough for me. Let's move on to something else.


I'm just left now confused than every after Russia denied Putin denied it saying the topic never came up between them.


Autumn 11-11-2017 11:05 AM

Classic, every time Trump tries to brown nose Putin, Putin throws him under the bus. But Trump just can't quit him.

Atocep 11-11-2017 11:54 AM

If Trump actually goes after the church of scientology's tax exempt status we'll probably find out quickly if the pee tapes exist.

JPhillips 11-11-2017 05:03 PM

Quote:

PRESIDENT TRUMP: They say in the history of people coming to China, there's been nothing like that. And I believe it.

It is so easy to manipulate this guy.

digamma 11-11-2017 07:06 PM

White House daycare off duty tonight.

Atocep 11-11-2017 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digamma (Post 3183664)
White House daycare off duty tonight.


No kidding. The President of the United States just tweeted this:



Edward64 11-11-2017 07:21 PM

Nice one, had a good chuckle.

Edward64 11-11-2017 07:24 PM

Oh wait. I might need to buy my bomb shelter first.

RainMaker 11-11-2017 07:40 PM

Looks like he made it to Vietnam without those pesky heel spurs acting up.

CrimsonFox 11-11-2017 08:31 PM

That was real? OMG! It's like the white trash teeny boppers I have to deal with occasionally...

stevew 11-12-2017 04:49 AM

What a dotard.

Ben E Lou 11-12-2017 02:40 PM

Heh. I confess that I hadn't thought about this angle...



BBT 11-13-2017 08:51 AM



whomario 11-13-2017 11:04 AM

The Trump Presidency: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO) - YouTube

BBT 11-13-2017 12:35 PM

Good read

Trump’s Trade Policies Keep Backfiring
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ep-backfiring/

Quote:

It looked like the end. Barack Obama’s administration had been the driving force behind the negotiations, and U.S. ratification was necessary for the agreement to take effect. But to the surprise of many, the remaining 11 members of the TPP have so far stuck together even without U.S. participation. Unabashed free-traders stepped up to counter Trump’s protectionism: Japan, the world’s third-biggest economy, has assumed the leadership role. Canada, initially a reluctant member of the club, volunteered to host one of the first post-Trump meetings of the remaining TPP countries to work on a way forward — perhaps because research shows that Canadians will do better if they have preferential access that their American cousins lack. Smaller, poorer countries such as Vietnam and Malaysia wanted freer trade with the U.S. but agreed to consider improved access to countries such as Australia, Canada and Japan as a consolation prize for years of hard bargaining.

Ahead of this week’s Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation summit in Vietnam, there was talk that the remaining TPP members would use the venue to make an official agreement to proceed. Trump is attending that meeting during a five-country, 11-day trip to Asia that began last Friday. It could turn out to be the rare international summit at which the American president is sidelined from the main event.

RainMaker 11-13-2017 02:55 PM

It's almost like this guy doesn't understand economics.

Thomkal 11-13-2017 07:06 PM

New proof that Don Jr. was in contact with Assange and WikiLinks during the election:

The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks - The Atlantic

CrimsonFox 11-14-2017 04:18 AM

I'm now seeing commercials on TV to impeach Trump. During Impractical Jokers no less.

albionmoonlight 11-14-2017 01:10 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3183964)
New proof that Don Jr. was in contact with Assange and WikiLinks during the election:

The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks - The Atlantic




Thomkal 11-14-2017 01:52 PM

heh

RainMaker 11-14-2017 09:44 PM

I don't think Peter King is on board with the tax reform plan.



Edward64 11-15-2017 05:59 AM

Oh great. I really don't think they should try to mix the 2. I'm all for some sort of tax plan and think it could pass on its own.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politi...orm/index.html
Quote:

Washington (CNN)Despite nearly a year's worth of heartache, Republicans can't quit trying to repeal Obamacare.

Senate Republicans plan to include a repeal of the individual mandate -- a key piece of the Affordable Care Act -- in their tax reform efforts. It's a move that dramatically raises the stakes for President Donald Trump and congressional Republicans, who are still looking for a single, substantial legislative accomplishment to deliver to the American people this year.

For Republicans, the benefits are tempting. If they can pull it off, it's a two-for-one victory. They will have overhauled the US tax code and taken a bite out of former President Barack Obama's signature legislative achievement, even if it falls short of the "root and branch" health care repeal many had vowed to see through.

But if they fail, Republicans will enter the midterm election year with their message muddled, without a victory on tax reform, and having spent a year's worth of time trying and repeatedly failing to dismantle Obamacare with nothing to show for it but bad headlines.

Thomkal 11-15-2017 06:16 AM

North Korea sentences Trump to death:

North Korea Issues 'Death Sentence' Against Trump: 'He Will be Forced to Pay Dearly for His Blasphemy'

BYU 14 11-15-2017 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward64 (Post 3184137)
Oh great. I really don't think they should try to mix the 2. I'm all for some sort of tax plan and think it could pass on its own.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/politi...orm/index.html


They just can't keep from tripping over their own damn feet. This move is far from brilliant.

JPhillips 11-15-2017 08:24 AM

Fuck it, put it all in one bill.

Tax cuts, ACA repeal, defunding Planned Parenthood, locking up Hillary, national voter ID, reciprocal concealed carry, Confederate statues, school vouchers, Reagan on Mt. Rushmore, Social Security cuts, standing for the National anthem, a Constitutional convention....

Coffee Warlord 11-15-2017 08:49 AM

Democracy Doesn't Work - YouTube

bob 11-15-2017 09:17 AM

I really wish that whatever bill gets passed wouldn't go into affect until 2019 and next year they would publish some decent guidelines for people so they can plan ahead. Some people are going to have a nasty surprise that they aren't prepared for.

For example, lets take a family with 3 kids (and i'm rounding numbers here to make the math easy).

Current:

Standard deduction: 12,000
Personal exemptions: 20,000
Mortgage interest, taxes, donations, etc: 20,000

So this family itemizes and knocks off 32,000 at the start.

New bill (if passed as today):

Standard deduction: 24,000
Personal exemptions: 0
Mortgage interest, taxes, donations, etc: 20,000

So now they take the standard since that is more than itemizing... but they are now left with taxes on another $12,000 of income, which in the 25% bracket would be another $3,000. Hope they planned ahead given that surveys say that something like 50% of households would have trouble with an unexpected $500 bill.

Now, I know that doesn't take into account child tax credits and other stuff, but I think my point is this is going to have some trouble for a lot of people in the middle.

Edit: Heard this on the radio, so not sure where the numbers come from, but...

- 50 million households under $200,000/yr get no tax cut
- 20 million households under $200,000/yr get a tax increase

JPhillips 11-15-2017 09:32 AM

In the Senate bill all the income tax provisions expire in eight years while all the corporate tax cuts are permanent.

panerd 11-15-2017 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3184159)
I really wish that whatever bill gets passed wouldn't go into affect until 2019 and next year they would publish some decent guidelines for people so they can plan ahead. Some people are going to have a nasty surprise that they aren't prepared for.

For example, lets take a family with 3 kids (and i'm rounding numbers here to make the math easy).

Current:

Standard deduction: 12,000
Personal exemptions: 20,000
Mortgage interest, taxes, donations, etc: 20,000

So this family itemizes and knocks off 32,000 at the start.

New bill (if passed as today):

Standard deduction: 24,000
Personal exemptions: 0
Mortgage interest, taxes, donations, etc: 20,000

So now they take the standard since that is more than itemizing... but they are now left with taxes on another $12,000 of income, which in the 25% bracket would be another $3,000. Hope they planned ahead given that surveys say that something like 50% of households would have trouble with an unexpected $500 bill.

Now, I know that doesn't take into account child tax credits and other stuff, but I think my point is this is going to have some trouble for a lot of people in the middle.

Edit: Heard this on the radio, so not sure where the numbers come from, but...

- 50 million households under $200,000/yr get no tax cut
- 20 million households under $200,000/yr get a tax increase


You would think in the end it will just be more federal debt with a lot cut out. They can't just alienate voters with tax increases like you describe right? I mean with these idiots in Congress anything is possible but it seems like you don't want "values" voter Joe Schmoe who always votes straight GOP to get a $3000 tax bill from the IRS when he is supposed to get getting a refund check.

Logan 11-15-2017 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3184163)
You would think in the end it will just be more federal debt with a lot cut out. They can't just alienate voters with tax increases like you describe right? I mean with these idiots in Congress anything is possible but it seems like you don't want "values" voter Joe Schmoe who always votes straight GOP to get a $3000 tax bill from the IRS when he is supposed to get getting a refund check.


That will just be spun into some other kind of BS that they believe, just like everything else coming from the GOP.

bob 11-15-2017 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3184163)
You would think in the end it will just be more federal debt with a lot cut out. They can't just alienate voters with tax increases like you describe right? I mean with these idiots in Congress anything is possible but it seems like you don't want "values" voter Joe Schmoe who always votes straight GOP to get a $3000 tax bill from the IRS when he is supposed to get getting a refund check.


Well, the issue there is the 2 party system, right? It's very possible this Joe Schmoe is still gonna vote GOP for some other issue (gun rights, abortion, etc).

panerd 11-15-2017 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 3184165)
That will just be spun into some other kind of BS that they believe, just like everything else coming from the GOP.


I don't disagree that this is true with most of their programs/ideas but most of the programs don't effect their core middle class voter like this one would. This one you would think would really stick out. I mean there is a reason neither party ever wants to increase taxes (outside of the normal bs they say) and that's losing votes.

JPhillips 11-15-2017 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3184163)
You would think in the end it will just be more federal debt with a lot cut out. They can't just alienate voters with tax increases like you describe right? I mean with these idiots in Congress anything is possible but it seems like you don't want "values" voter Joe Schmoe who always votes straight GOP to get a $3000 tax bill from the IRS when he is supposed to get getting a refund check.


If you look at charts on the new Senate bill, by the end of the ten year window it's basically a huge corporate tax cut paid for by tax increases on the poor and middle class, but they are terrified of their donors who are apparently saying, pass this or count us out.

As bad as this is, wait until next year, when Ryan says they are going to "reform" Medicare and Social Security. The Congressional GOP may end up with a zero approval rating.

panerd 11-15-2017 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3184167)
Well, the issue there is the 2 party system, right? It's very possible this Joe Schmoe is still gonna vote GOP for some other issue (gun rights, abortion, etc).


Maybe but I think while people like to claim otherwise their pocketbook will always trump all other issues. A authoritarian who promised to reduce all income tax to 0 in exchange for all sorts of drastic measures would probably get a large chunk of votes.

bob 11-15-2017 09:48 AM

As someone that I think is gonna be squeezed by this, we are looking for things to do before the end of the year. So we are likely going to accelerate some charitable donations of cash that we would have liked to do 2018 into this year, as well as go through our entire house to look at donations of household items so we can get that benefit in the 2017 tax year instead of the unknown 2018 tax year. Any other ideas that people have?

panerd 11-15-2017 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob (Post 3184172)
As someone that I think is gonna be squeezed by this, we are looking for things to do before the end of the year. So we are likely going to accelerate some charitable donations of cash that we would have liked to do 2018 into this year, as well as go through our entire house to look at donations of household items so we can get that benefit in the 2017 tax year instead of the unknown 2018 tax year. Any other ideas that people have?


Probably not terrible ideas but I wouldn't do anything drastic yet. Repealing Obamacare seemed like it would be the easiest (easy meaning most support from their base) and that didn't happen. You have to think there will be a few hold outs on this one for the same reason.

Logan 11-15-2017 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panerd (Post 3184169)
I don't disagree that this is true with most of their programs/ideas but most of the programs don't effect their core middle class voter like this one would. This one you would think would really stick out. I mean there is a reason neither party ever wants to increase taxes (outside of the normal bs they say) and that's losing votes.


I stopped believing things would eventually "stick out" once involvement with fucking Russians got dismissed with talking points.

But your point is valid that it tends to be the wallet that eventually hurts. My worry though is the amount of damage that will be done in the time it takes for all that core middle class to actually realize it.

BBT 11-15-2017 11:20 AM

This sounds straight out of a mafia movie.

Firm founded by KGB spy to guard US Moscow embassy
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41947030

Quote:

The US State Department has employed a private firm set up by a veteran Soviet-era spy to provide security for its Moscow embassy and diplomatic missions in Russia.

The move comes after Moscow ordered the US to more than halve its staff in Russia earlier this year.

The US has now signed a contract with Elite Security Holdings, founded by the ex-KGB General Viktor Budanov.

General Budanov was a close friend of British spy and defector Kim Philby.
A notice on the US State Department website shows the contract with Elite Security Holdings is worth more than $2.8m (£2.1m).

A document posted online outlining "justification and approval" for the contract says guards at the Moscow embassy and other US missions were among the staff included in the expulsion order, adding: "The only option available, to ensure security services continue, is via a commercial contract."

Marc Vaughan 11-15-2017 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 3184165)
That will just be spun into some other kind of BS that they believe, just like everything else coming from the GOP.


My bet is that it'll be spun as being because of 'Obamacare' that the evil Democrats have been preventing them removing ....

Thomkal 11-15-2017 01:51 PM

Can we pick the card(s) that will go there?

Cards Against Humanity buys a piece of the U.S. border - CBS News

RainMaker 11-15-2017 03:32 PM


Groundhog 11-15-2017 03:58 PM

About time those 0.1%ers caught a break.

Atocep 11-15-2017 04:32 PM

It's funny that anyone thought Trump was going to come in and help the middle class.

I'd bet nearly anything he wouldn't have been within $100k if asked to identify middle class earnings when he took office and I'd say there's still probably a 50% chance that hasn't changed.

Thomkal 11-16-2017 06:16 AM

We don't really need elephants do we?

Trophies from elephant hunts in Zimbabwe were banned in the U.S. Trump just reversed that. - The Washington Post

Marc Vaughan 11-16-2017 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3184299)
We don't really need elephants do we?


You're looking at this from an elitist perspective ... the middle class hunt and they need to bring their trophies home from their little hunting expeditions).

(both Trumps sons do trophy hunting and in his mind I'm sure they're 'middle class' as they have less money than he does ;) )

Thomkal 11-16-2017 09:37 AM

well excuse my elitist blood :) I'm sure he had no thought on this other than his sons when he agreed to it.

mckerney 11-16-2017 04:44 PM

No longer will the middle class be forced to pay unfair taxes on their private jets.



JPhillips 11-16-2017 08:33 PM

This seems like it should get some attention.

Quote:

The BBC has uncovered details of a secret deal that let hundreds of IS fighters and their families escape from Raqqa, under the gaze of the US and British-led coalition and Kurdish-led forces who control the city.

….The deal to let IS fighters escape from Raqqa — de facto capital of their self-declared caliphate…would spare lives and bring fighting to an end. The lives of the Arab, Kurdish and other fighters opposing IS would be spared. But it also enabled many hundreds of IS fighters to escape from the city….Has the pact, which stood as Raqqa’s dirty secret, unleashed a threat to the outside world — one that has enabled militants to spread far and wide across Syria and beyond?

….Publicly, the SDF said that only a few dozen fighters had been able to leave, all of them locals. But one lorry driver tells us that isn’t true. “We took out around 4,000 people including women and children — our vehicle and their vehicles combined. When we entered Raqqa, we thought there were 200 people to collect. In my vehicle alone, I took 112 people.”

….Another driver says the convoy was six to seven kilometres long….Footage secretly filmed and passed to us shows lorries towing trailers crammed with armed men. Despite an agreement to take only personal weapons, IS fighters took everything they could carry. Ten trucks were loaded with weapons and ammunition.

….In light of the BBC investigation, the coalition now admits the part it played in the deal. Some 250 IS fighters were allowed to leave Raqqa, with 3,500 of their family members.

PilotMan 11-17-2017 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3184432)
This seems like it should get some attention.


It sounds like something that would have happened under Obama, and rest assured if it had, you'd have a large contingent of opposition literally calling for him to be hung for treason. Not shot. Hung.

whomario 11-17-2017 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3184299)


Trump is an apathetic, amoral POS who doesn't care about nor understand cause/effect/perception. I expect plenty more of this sort of "minor" stuff get pushed by him because it is so incredibly easy to spin things to him in a way that makes him go "hey, thats a pip of an idea, let's do that"

Also give the NRA sth to talk about: "gee, ain't it awesome what good weapons do. Conservation, just doing out part. Wait, you still wanna talk about Las Vegas and stuff ? Outrageous ... "

Thomkal 11-17-2017 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whomario (Post 3184464)
Trump is an apathetic, amoral POS who doesn't care about nor understand cause/effect/perception. I expect plenty more of this sort of "minor" stuff get pushed by him because it is so incredibly easy to spin things to him in a way that makes him go "hey, thats a pip of an idea, let's do that"


I don't think we say "pip of an idea" here :)

whomario 11-17-2017 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3184465)
I don't think we say "pip of an idea" here :)


Well you should :p


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