Ortiz and Ramirez Said to Be on 2003 Doping List - NYTimes.com

David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez were on the 2003 steroids list. Not surprising at all.

No-brainer. The only guy I'm sure wasn't juicing from that (or any) team is Curt Schilling (not because he's a fatty, just because I believe his rants about steroids are genuine).

But even as a Sox fan, I wouldn't disagree with anyone that says that the '04 World Series win was tained. That's what the players union and the owners did to us, and every fan.

But these guys are going to have a hell of lawsuit on their hands if we ever find out how these names are getting released.

Yeah, and I hope this doesn't keep going where one or two names come out every few months. Just release the whole damn list and get it all over with or destroy the list. Everyone used steroids, we get it so let's just move on.

Meh, don't care, but it makes it all the more fucking ridiculous how Bonds gets blackballed, while people the writers like get free passes. Face it - this is primarily an issue for old farts to whine about the "sanctity" of the game.

What's with all these little by little released names? For drama's sake?

Btw, I'm with Crapshoot.

I think it'd be more newsworthy to announce people that HAVEN'T juiced. The fact that they keep throwing out a name or two at a time is just stupid.

Presumably, it's not the same person deciding which names to announce every few months. These are sealed documents. Some lawyer (or intern) sees them, calls a sportswriter, and maybe tries to get free tickets for a game or something.

Certain lawyers may have access to part of or the entire list. Lawyers working on the Giambi stuff probably knew only that Giambi was on the list. Same with Bonds. So those names were leaked then. Maybe these particular lawyers only had access to Manny and Ortiz, for whatever reason.

One things for sure, when they leak a name, it's a blatant violation of court orders.

Unsurprisingly disappointing.

I hate when steroids are brought up. It always makes me think "why do I still care about baseball?" And then I try ot decide whether I should just drop the sport altogether.

Yep. And that's highly disappointing... but, of course, people think its ok, because they are outing a player for using roids, ugh.

Let the subtle, but obvious, "sweeping under the rug" by ESPN, MLBPA, the owners, the agents, etc... begin.

Olympic-style drug testing is the ONLY solution to this mess, but we all know the greed of the involved parties will never allow the most effective testing program on the planet to be used(of course, it isn't going to catch everyone, as the millionaires involved in baseball can pay to stay a few steps ahead of the testing, but it's certainly better than the joke of a piss test we currently have). Like Ben Johnson(Canadian Sprinter, "former" Olympic Champion), the records of these "greats" should be removed from the books once the proven cheat hangs up his/her cleats...at the very least, the Sammy Sosa/David Ortiz's of the world should be listed with an asterick next to their name in the official record books.

I understand most think this is way too harsh, but I do believe the Olympic program is ideal. In a perfect world, a first offense would result in a two-year ban from baseball, a second offense? Find a new job/league...

The powers that be shouldn't have silenced Frank Thomas when he claimed this was a serious issue in the early 90's...it's too bad his name will be linked with these asterick-clowns.

Shit....you're telling me that David Ortiz....a guy thats 1.5 times the size of David Arias......juiced?

Seriously?

And agreed about them needing to leave Bonds alone, it's not like he was the only high profile guy doing this.

Bonds is the only one to break the home run record, but he's also generally a jerk who brought most of this upon himself. Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens did not come out of this exactly unscathed, however, so to claim Bonds gets particularly nasty treatment because of steroids isn't really true. The most that's come down on him because of that was scorn over the homerun record.

Per Ortiz, earlier this year:


I'm sure he'll voluntarily take a year off.

I am guessing back in June and before many of the Red Sox fans probably were wishing he took this year off. :)

Wait... did he say "bang them" or "ban them"... because that changes a lot! ;)

I thought he was already taking the year off.

Apparently Kevin Hart has drilled 4 people this inning for the Cubs: 2 Astros and the Umpire (twice).

I'm sure it would be too much for me to hope that Bill Hohn's crew is working this game.

:(

I'll wait for more than one source, but :(. Not Papi!

Post 3601 dude ;).

still fewer Sox juicers than Yankee juicers

yeah i apparently missed the new page when i clicked "new posts" it took me back a page so i didn't realize it was up on here yet

Probably not a good road to begin walking down.

Just an update on Halladay:

Detroit was told it'd take Rick Porcello, Ryan Perry and Casey Crosby for Doc. As much as I say you have to trade prospects for a guy like him, I am glad this was turned down. Our system is lacking depth, but Crosby seems very legit at this stage. Meanwhile Porcello is 20 and going to be most likely a 12-13 game winner already while Perry has the potential to be dominant in a year or two out of the pen.

Plus Doc can't hit which kills us because we just don't score runs.

Is that really saying all that much? I do know that the Royals woefully underachieved when it comes to juicers. No wonder we can't win.

Probably not a good road to begin walking down.

Steroid Nation: Kansas City Royals in the 2000s: Dugout of juicers?

Thats something to be proud of!!!!!

dola,

By my count that makes 5 tainted Boston championships in the 2000s.

Good work fellas!

The only player who deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to steroids, in my mind, is Frank Thomas. Everyone else is presumed guilty.

What about Kevin McHale helping out an old friend?

As a fan, I'd rather have 6 tainted championships than 0.

true true.

McHale helped out everyone though, so I don't think that one counts.

Yeah no kidding not Big papi:(................And if so he should have fired his trainer/dealer since he sure did not get the same stuff Arod and the NY Yankers
took (take) from the looks of his gut.

Strong words from a Pirates fan:)

I still have same faith in Griffey and Jeter.

Griffey being a cheeter would basically be the only thing that would make me sad. The rest of these guys, i basically have no attachment to whatsoever.

true. but neither was Jas being a douche

That would crush me as a fan.

He was being a douche? Where?

Where not?

So apparently the Mets have won 5 straight. I'm not exactly sure how that happened.

I hadn't seen this before. Cool gift :)

SI

Royals are now 10-11 in games pitched by Zack this year. Sad, just sad.

SI

Jose Canseco says there's a current HOF that used, but wouldn't name him.

Jose Canseco not surprised by report on Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz - ESPN

I would assume that's Ricky Henderson, but I don't know why the guys that their primes in the 80s but played through the 90s are always given the benefit of the doubt - Ripken, Murray, Sandberg, Molitor, etc.

I guess if you can't have 26 World Series titles, this will do, right? ;)

Dola


Whenever anyone says "no comment" to a story, you know it has to be true. I mean, how hard is it to say, "These accusations are false, I did nothing wrong, and I will prove it."

Trade----

John Grabow and Tom Gorzellany to the Cubs for supposedly Ryan Theriot and Jay Jackson.

Maybe others, maybe that's the wrong two. I know those two pirates are traded to the cubs though.

I heard a rumor that the Pirates were offering their stadium for a single A player to be named later (presumably Pumpy Tudors) and cash. Is this true?

So I guess he's not going to go the taking responsbility route.

He deserves the jeers he'll get on the road and the questions about the legitmacy of his career.

I'm telling you what, I'm tired of watching the Pirates dismantle this 67 win team brick by brick.

:)