So MAGA hardliners are forcing McCarthy to agree to a rule package that is the legislative equivalent of him wearing the Pulp Fiction gimp suit for two years while they hold the leash.

And right after a mid-term where the voters punished the GOPers who were more extreme MAGA/Trump.

Why wouldn't McCarthy work out a deal with some Dems for some Speaker votes in exchange for a more sane rules package?

That would

(1) Let McCarthy not be beholden to the MAGA fringe and get to be Speaker on his terms; and
(2) Keep the GOP from having to put its crazy face front and center going into the 2024 election

And for the Dems, this would make things like defaulting on the national debt and defunding the FBI much less likely, so it seems like they would be on board with it, too.

What am I missing here?

A) Compromise is a sign of weakness and beta behavior.

and

B) Compromise with the Dems is an act of treason that MIGHT lead to a visit to McCarthy's home similar to the one that recently happened at the Pelosi home or worse.

My take is why would the Dems agree to much of anything for him when the Rs worked so hard to fight impeachment, and tear down the people who voted for impeachment, and the Jan6 committee. Agreeing to support a moderate speaker means they are acquiescing without getting anything in return. There's no guarantee that even if they do support someone else, that it will come back with anything positive.

As for the debt ceiling, I still think you call the Rs bluff every single time. I think the public has seen that the Rs have borne the brunt of the responsibility for the previous efforts.

As for the MAGA fringe. The R party was just punished at the polls for it. Why help your opposition get out of the hole they themselves dug? I don't think you need to. I think you need to let them put that crazy face on and wear it, since it's the new face of the party. Let the people continue to see just how fucked up they are and hope that the natural repercussions take their course, while focusing on taking more of the middle of the field.

I think you can still get the wins here without letting your opponents off the hook of their own doing.

This is really, really turning into a problem. A housing market being railroaded by investment houses, trying to extract as much profit out of the underclass as possible. In metro Cincinnati, where we've had a long run of affordable quality of living, is suddenly close to ground zero for this shit too. The number of homes that have been bought up by large investment companies and turned into rentals has driving the cost to live up substantially if you can't purchase. I hear it all the time in our neighborhood, which has been a target for one of these companies. The Cincinnati area has seen some of the largest rental hikes in the past few years as well. To me, the idea that VC has so much money that they're willing to try and corner the market on housing to not only extract profit, but also to KEEP people renting is criminal. It's simply wrong on a million levels.

Paywall removed.
Rising rents were a crisis for tenants. For Starwood, they were a gift.


https://wapo.st/3vvqtKX

And people wonder why other people sour on capitalism.

I think I mentioned it on here at the time, but when we bought our house a couple of years ago there was a last minute cash offer from an investment company that wanted to turn it into a rental. We were lucky that their realtor didn't recommend the offer and as vets the owners were happy to sell their home to fellow vets. In the 2.5 years we've owned the home the price of the place we were renting has gone up about 40%.

Michelle Obama surprises people on an elevator. pic.twitter.com/sodHJbjMYf

— Mike Sington (@MikeSington) January 1, 2023

One more thing to add to Santos' CV.

Brazilian authorities intend to revive fraud case against George Santos | CNN Politics

Well this is going to be a right wing talking point for months:

Biden and his legal team don't know what's in classified documents found in his private office, sources say | CNN Politics

Does this mean the president can't just declassify anything by thinking it?

The right wing media response to this is frustratingly predictable. Devoid of any nuance what so ever. I'm sure there are a large portion of people too stupid to see the difference, but the Tucker Carlsons of the world certainly know the difference.

What is crazy is the Biden lawyer did the right thing by immediately turning them in to the archives. The Trump lawyers would have burned them.

My father is in a physical rehab place right now, and his roommate was watching OAN while I was there the other day. I guess if Fox News isn't crazy enough for you, then go to OAN.

Katie Porter announced she is running for Senate in California for Feinstein's seat. I hope she wins it.

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Having voted to reverse the IRS funding from the Inflation Reduction Act, House Republicans remembered always to go full bore on everything and are now voting to eliminate the IRS.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't just voted to abolish the government since the folks in charge of the House right now appeared A-OK with people trying to storm it and kill people exactly two years ago.

It will be interesting to see at the end of 2 years how many posts we have here about off the wall crazy bills the house votes in.

I would love to watch from a distance another timeline where the dems just go with this and watch Republicans blame the dems for it passing.

They found more documents in another office.

The first set of docs were found months ago and properly reported. Biden should have made that public then (since Trump's stuff was in the news) instead of CBS breaking the story. It just makes him look bad.

Simply say "we found documents on X date, I didn't know about it, we reported it immediately, we'll let the authorities do their investigation how this happened"

So unless the authorities said "don't tell the public" (which I doubt), I do think Biden deserves some bad press here. I do want to know what type of docs and what they think happened e.g. was it some staff that mistakenly put it into a storage box without higher ups knowing

Here's the caveat.......

An aide found them, and previously, his own lawyers found them, and neither of them were in his personal possession, they were places he's been, and each time, they did the exact thing you do when you find stuff like this.

Saying "they" found more implies it's a similar situation where 'they' found the documents during the search in Florida at trumps hoity-toidy(sp) palace.

I think they're angling for this exact thing. Choke the entire supply of money to any social support so the choice is between defense and literally anything else. It's been a wet dream for the hard right for decades.

FWIW Joe is up to 44.1% on 538. Nice gain in about 2 weeks.

"They" as in his people. It's still going to make prosecuting Trump nearly impossible because we don't do nuance in this country.

Your naivety never ceases to amaze me. Do you honestly think the reaction from right wing media and republicans would be any different regardless of when this was announced.

Garland is a dickless wonder who is terrified of coming off even remotely partisan. Zero chance he goes after Trump now.

If it means we can still prosecute Trump then Biden needs to be the fall guy if needed. We can’t do four more years of Trump in charge after everything that has come out, I simply don’t know if the Union can survive that so whatever needs to happen to Biden over this I would be all for. My two cents.

It’s not always about right wing or left wing extremist/media. Just my opinion & thoughts on what he should have done and why he deserves some backlash.

It’s certainly not as bad as Trump but it is wrong it was found in his possessions. What reason does he had for not divulging this info back in nov?

I’m totally onboard with whatever wipes out Trump and Biden for 2024. Bring it the fuck on.

Not as famous as the last American released by the Russians, but just as important.

Taylor Dudley: US Navy veteran released from Russian custody | CNN Politics

@edward

Why? Because he didn’t know they existed because he wasn’t actively trying to hide them so he could show off to golf buddies and when it was found they turned them in without a fight.

But both sides


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Maybe there was an ongoing investigation? Maybe they were searching for more docs? Politics obviously.

It just baffles me you don't grasp that the timing means nothing to the right wing outrage machine.

Huh? My understanding is the first set of docs were found in Nov. Joe knew he/staff had messed up then, reported to FBI, Justice (?) but did not divulge it to public.

So yeah, he wasn’t trying to actively hide the docs but he was actively trying to hide the discovery of the docs from the public. I want him to answer why he did this? I can’t think of a good reason

But yeah, I guess some think one side is better than both sides

Yes, some politics obviously for sure

If there was an active investigation and he was told not to divulge the discovery, I want to know that. Easy for him to come out and say it. He hasn’t yet so my guess is they weren’t told to not divulge.

Forget left or right wing outrage, nothing to do about that in my posts. What was the right thing for Joe to do? Just stay quiet and hope no one finds out? Unless FBI, Justice told him to not say anything, this makes Joe look bad

I think the correct thing to do is let the dust settle. We live in a world where everyone is falling over themselves to divulge information, often incorrectly. I suspect Bidens camp wanted time to process what was happening, see where an investigation goes, gameplan how to handle it, and/or see if not only there were more documents, but confirm they are legitimate and not fake/planted.

I have zero issue with any of that.

Garland announcement at 1:15. I'm sure it will be deeply riveting and insightful.

They discovered the first set of docs in Nov. I believe it was Nov 2, that's over 2+ months. Plenty of time for them to process what was happening & gameplan.

Yes, if Garland tells us a good reason why it was kept quiet since Nov, I'm all for it. I can understand not divulging it immediately because of the unknowns you stated (include the Nov elections) but 2+ months is plenty of time.

2 months is the blink of an eye when it comes to this sort of thing.

Can you tell me exactly how your life was changed by the delay? What exactly did the delay affect of importance? Wouldn't it be better to investigate and have a grasp on the situation before muddying thing up with announcement? Heck, the justice department knew for months Trump had Top Secret documents, did they have press conference immediately or did we find out by the press reporting on the raid?

People think that police and prosecutors talk way more about ongoing investigations than they actually do.

Former Clinton NSA Sandy Berger took 5 classified documents in October 2003 and plead guilty in April 2005. This doesn't usually happen quickly.

No change at all. Not about me.

No doubt an investigation is needed. Some investigations take years to complete, so just wait before finding out? All Joe had to say was below back in November

Quote:

Simply say "we found documents on X date, I didn't know about it, we reported it immediately, we'll let the authorities do their investigation how this happened"

Below is the timeline. I do not believe the Archives were keeping anything secret when they were making the request. I don't think MSM picked up on it until Justice got involved. Therefore, it was known stuff was missing and some were returned Jan 2022. Then on Feb 9, the Archives asked the Justice dept to investigate.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...ce-department/

And yeah, Joe should be better than Trump.

Whether it's Biden keeping documents in a Corvette or Trump trying to take the wheel of a limo to drive to an insurrection, both sides have had their share of trouble with cars.

— New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) January 12, 2023

SMH

Trump literally fought to keep the stuff and actively hide it, possibly criminally

Biden didn’t even know the crap was left there (negligently) but gave it up immediately and didn’t fight to keep it so that he had a trophy

This is so E


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Nice to see your are using both sides in discussions

Wait, I thought Biden was a Camaro guy.

Looking forward to the next budget battle royale! Been a while since we've had a shutdown.

House GOP tempts fall government shutdown with impossible spending demands - POLITICO
I like the target for sure. Not sure I'd agree with the process and need to see the details.

Conceptually, I like the idea of individual votes. As a practical matter, I can see this turning into a cluster.

Again, like the target but don't think history is on their side.


Hopefully, the economy & markets will be full-steam ahead and inflation will be well under control before they get unsettled with all this mess.

Maybe they should reverse their stupid tax cuts as a way to increase the budget since nobody wants to cut our bloated defense.

I hope these “extraordinary measures” to avoid the debt ceiling include such things as the following: Juggling. Walking a tight rope. Swimming with sharks. Snakecharming. Spelunking while blindfolded. And many more!

Godspeed Janet Yellen.

Ironically, Garland appointing a Special Counsel has pissed off the GOP House crazies, since anything they subpoena is now "under active investigation"

I'm hoping for mud wrestling.

Lauren Boebert & MTG vs AOC & Ilhan Omar

The rake from the streaming revenue would pay off this year's deficit.

I read we have till early June with Yellen buying us time. I don't remember the other times but 5 months seems like a lot of time.

Regardless, below will be fun to watch


But some here will want to expand it to a field of 12. So, I'd like to see Biden vs Trump, McCarthy vs Pelosi, Turtle vs Schumer and, probably the best fight, Hunter vs Don Jr or Eric

Joe, I really don't believe you meant to swipe the materials and this is all due to sloppy end-of-VP stuff. But wouldn't a reasonable person (with the resources you have) have said back in Nov, after the first batch was discovered ...

"Let's look through other stuff and make sure nothing else is there?"

So, we have Nov and I remember reading about 2 more sets found at different times in Jan. Below article implies there were 3 more sets found in Jan (I'm losing track now). What the heck were you doing in Nov & Dec?

Yes, I would like to know what these docs were about.

Biden classified documents: 5 additional pages of classified material found at president's Wilmington residencd | CNN Politics

White House under pressure to explain why it didn’t reveal documents discovery earlier | The Hill
Yup, that's what I want to know.

Yup, this is the most likely answer. Not that I blame Joe for not revealing before the Nov elections, who wants another Hillary Nov surprise that was a nothing burger, that likely had some impact on the elections. But if I was advising Joe, I'd have told him reveal it immediately

The real question for me is why not after the Nov elections. It was 2+ months before CBS broke the story

The official WH answer, so far, is ...

I didn't watch the press conference but this smells like good old bull crap and non-answering answering the question. No, you haven't answered the question multiple times. You say there was a process? Tell us what the process was and who approved it? (and those frakking reporters should have asked this follow-up question).

An active investigation does NOT mean you could not have said below sometime mid-Nov

Quote:

Simply say "we found documents on X date, I didn't know about it, we reported it immediately, we'll let the authorities do their investigation how this happened"

I can go either way here. If we need another 10 years of troops doing training to buy us time for EVs to take off, probably seems worth it (unless troops are dying). But once EVs take off and our heavy crude dependence in that region is over, let's just leave the party.


I hope he has the support of the key factions here and not using us as his proxy against Al-Sadr etc. I can see the factions trying to kill US & NATO troops to get us out. But that hasn't happened yet so maybe they also like the small presence as an insurance policy.

The GOPs brilliant plan is to eliminate the IRS, eliminating income tax, and just have a national 30% sales tax.

would destroy the middle class and poor so that tracks

They are talking about payments to lower income people to offset the higher prices.

The whole thing is so stupid. If I was the Dems I would have this on the front burner of everything but they won't because they are talking about gas stoves.

This would really nuke the middle class. Imagine making 100K a year in a metro area and needing some kind of government hand out because everything costs 30% more. If you would even be eligible, which I doubt you would be because the cut off will probably be ridiculously low. Also how do you factor in cost of living for certain areas? 100K goes a lot further in Arkansas than San Francisco.

Holy fuck that’s dumb.

I just read an article about it. Apparently McCarthy had to make a concession to allow it to come to the floor for a vote in order to get a congressman from Georgias support for speaker. The GOP knows it is DOA. This is the kind of dumb fuckery waste of time shit we are going to have to deal with while we get the full scope of what he promised. Can't wait to see what he gave MTG.

Why do they want it to come for a vote? I guess just so they can say they voted to abolish the IRS?

dola:

That said, the more time they spend doing performative stuff, the less time they spend doing substantive stuff. So perform away!

Right just like the abortion stance (oh wait)

Representatives should do the performative stuff more often. This specifically is definitely a horrible policy idea, but there's way too much 'it'll never pass so we won't even try' going on. Makes a lot more sense to try, fail, and then continue to campaign on the issue if it's something your constituents want.

So, IMO, if the GOP House really does fail to raise the debt ceiling, and all the "extraordinary measures" run out in June, then I think that Biden's unilateral options (minting the coin, invoking the 14th Amendment, executing the spending laws that Congress has passed, etc.) are better, policy-wise, than default.

But I think that they are bad politics. They will turn the political focus away from "why isn't the GOP raising the limit?" to "Biden's gimmicks."

Also any unilateral option would almost certainly spook markets, and Biden/Dems would get 100% of that blowback.

So if you are the GOP, I think that you would want Biden to take unilateral action.

So that means, game theory-wise, if you are Biden and you have decided that you will take unilateral action before allowing a default, then the only thing that you can do is to continue to insist that you won't do it up until the moment that you do.

Right? As soon as you signal "I will do this politically unpopular thing if you guys don't back down," then you have guaranteed that the GOP won't back down.

Part of me feels like the only way to stop them from continually threatening to burn everything down is to let them actually burn something down. I don't know that it's a good solution, but it's like, "Ok -- let's have it your way then. See how that goes."

The big tactical mistake to me was in 2011. President Obama should have required Congress to eliminate the debt ceiling as part of the GOP spending cuts.

The thing is they will burn it all down then blame the white house. They already ignore the fact it was their guy who blew up the deficit. They will just claim they have to do this to drop out of control spending by the dems.

It was absolutely a mistake. I believe there have been a couple of other chances to do away with this vote as well. It really is a dumb thing to have to do.

I like the debt ceiling, regardless of which party is in charge.

I know many economists have said that debt ceiling doesn’t prevent deficit spending (in contemporary times) as that’s all Congress and the budget process. But it is reassuring to know there are constant reminders.

It’s like using credit cards. Sure spend up to the limit … and then use another card to spend more. Then get reminded of the reckless spending this month (and life to date accumulated spending) when you grimace & pay bills.

There's a reminder every time a budget is discussed or voted upon, because there will always be a section reserved for "debt service".

The debt ceiling stuff is performative theater, nothing more. If Republicans really cared, they'd engage in actual constructive discussions about how to raise revenue or cut spending, but they don't.

Debt ceiling debates, crises etc. are far more visible to the public. Like my Chase Visa reminding me of a pending payment in 5 days, every month.

No problem if it’s primarily political theatre. If it helps keep our massive deficits in public discourse, I’m all for it. We need constant reminders how messed up we are

What have all the debt ceiling crises of the past 10 years (since the advent of the Tea Party) accomplished, in your mind? Is public discourse on debt and deficits more or less constructive now than, say, 20/30/40 years ago?

The party now critical of the national debt is responsible for 25% of the existing debt all accrued under trump. 7.75 trillion in 4 years or something like that.

The first crisis I remember was in the 90s with Gingrich. I do credit that battle with getting me more aware of the Debt.

I know the 2011 fight was also nasty but let’s call it even. Or in other words, compared to the 90s, the multiple crises since then are the same or not as bad.

On your question of public discourse on debt (the Egg) I’d say it’s definitely worse. But I doubt debt ceiling fights are the cause of that. It’s more overall politics, extremism, the train at the end of the tunnel is getting closer etc. (the Chicken) that makes debt ceiling fights less constructive … aka the Chicken before the Egg.

So to restate my point. I don’t disagree that debt ceiling don’t stop or reduce spending, thats the budget and Congress’ fault, along with the President. My point is it brings continuous awareness (hey remember to pay your bills in 5 days) to the general public and there is worth in that.

What is your stance? No need for debt ceilings because …?

IIRC, the Gingrich shutdowns did not involve reaching and not extending the debt limit, but failures to approve budgets or continuing resolutions, meaning that the government did not have money to spend, which is a little different from not being able to borrow money.


Actually, the 2018-2019 shutdown, caused by Trump refusing to sign a budget because it didn't contain funds for his border wall, lasted longer, furloughed more employees, and incured more cost to the government than the Gingrich Shutdown: 2018–2019 United States federal government shutdown - Wikipedia

In fact, since 1980 there have been three shutdown events that lasted a double-digit number of days: the Gingrich Shutdowns of 95/96, the ACA-related shutdown of 2013, and the Trump Border Wall shutdown.

Gingrich we've covered. The GOP was attempting to enact massive spending cuts, restrict the work of the U.S. Treasury to deal with financial crises, and a number of non-budget related items, such as restricting appeals by death row inmates and dramatically reducing the ability of federal agencies to issue rules & regulations. Besides causing the government to shut down, Gingrich also threatened to not raise the debt ceiling.

The 2013 shutdown came about from Republicans trying to pass a budget that stripped all funding from the recently-passed ACA.

And the 2018-19 shutdown happened when both houses passed a budget bill with bipartisan support that did not contain funding for Trump's border wall, and he refused to sign it.

So, IMO, the crises have gotten worse, and they have been, in general, GOP led. Which should not be a surprise, because since 1980 the GOP has been attempting to limit the government's ability to function (c.f. Grover Norquist) and so shutting down the government or even causing it to default is a feature, not a bug.


There are multiple variables, sure, but doing the legislative equivalent of holding a gun to the country's economy (at least) probably doesn't aid in constructive discussion.


I mean, there's so much wrong with this analogy. First of all, last time I checked, I can't print my own money to solve my own budget problems.

Second, failing to raise the debt ceiling is the equivalent of not paying your bills since debt service is part of what is affected.

The correct analogy would be deciding to not pay my bills starting next month because I suddenly decided that I was spending too much money, even though I could certainly cover my bills if I wanted to. Oh, and in this analogy, the entities who own the vast majority of my debt are my own family.


If your concern is that the U.S. government has too much debt, the constructive solution is to raise revenue (corporate and upper-income taxes have been at historical lows for ages, capital gains taxes are similarly low) while at the same time looking at constructive spending cuts. Failing to raise the debt ceiling is the destructive solution. Simple as that.

And I scoff at the idea that Americans routinely forget how much debt the U.S. has, or how big the deficit is, when it's been the litany of every Republican politician since Reagan (and probably before). And, ironically, every Republican president since Reagan has left office with a greater budget deficit than the one they inherited, and every Democratic president since then has left office with a smaller budget deficit than the one they inherited, even Obama with The Great Recession. Clinton even left office with a budget surplus.

I wonder if the documents issue might help convince Biden not to run for a second term.

I am sure this will be the lead on all the Fox News prime time shows

BREAKING: A lawyer for former VP Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence's Indiana home last week, and he has turned those classified records over to the FBI, per multiple sources. @jamiegangel @jeremyherb @evanperez https://t.co/A3AldD95Cg

— Jeremy Diamond (@JDiamond1) January 24, 2023

As someone joked, GWB is probably the only ex-Pres/VP totally safe from this because you know he's a "leave work at the office" kind of guy.

Before it hits the web, I just want you guys to hear it from me first: they found classified documents in my basement office. My fucking dogs ratted me out.

But they are still good boys Ksyrup?


As for the documents at Pence's house as I was telling my Mother the other day, pretty sure every living VP/President are going to find some classified documents now. There is a breakdown somewhere in how these documents are supposed to be tracked, and other than Trump's blatant stealing of them, changes need to be made in it going forward.

It'll be really interesting when they discover documents at DeSantis's house!

(j/k. Maybe.)

This, or if you want to go conspiracy on it, elements of the Secret Service are planting classified documents in an attempt to make Trump's theft less likely to be prosecuted.

You do you Grant :)

I don't believe it. Or at least I hope that wouldn't be the case.

It’s pretty clear they need a better process of accounting for TS documents. Don’t they have a library card check-out-in system? There needs to be a central point with that old librarian lady stamping that card and sliding it in the sleeve at the inside of the front cover (I worked in library in college).

Trump will get a pass on this one. Let’s move on from this fiasco.

Now that you mentioned it, did the Jan 6 commission ever interview those SS agents?

I wonder if there are 2+ groups within SS and if there has been any corrective actions. But then, I guess it’s normal to be sided with someone you’ve sworn to take a bullet for.

Dan Bongino would disagree. Maybe it's the opposite

The secret service skews hard to the right. It's mostly ex-military and ex-cops. There's a reason Biden has shuffled agents around and reportedly expressed concerns about SS loyalties.

https://rollcall.com/2023/01/25/hous...mit-suspension

This makes some sense. The tl;dr version is that the House GOP is considering suspending the debt limit so that the timing of the debt crisis lines up with the new fiscal year budget that the parties have to negotiate.

The GOP has said it will never pass a clean debt ceiling increase.
The Dems have said that they will not negotiate a debt ceiling increase.

So that's actually a pretty dangerous game of chicken.

But of course you have to negotiate the budget. So if you tie the debt ceiling to the budget, then the parties can negotiate it and neither side has to go back on their word.

dola:

I'm not sure how it plays out, but that seems like kind of smart tactics by the GOP. It forces the Dems to the budget table but lets the GOP keep a nuclear bomb in its pocket during the talks.

(Time was, a shutdown was considered a nuclear bomb. But now that feels almost expected.)

I have a neighbor that has been an SS agent for 25 years he does not do the preside trial protection but he thought Trump early on back in 2016 ish was a great leader😳…. So yeah they are a hard right group in general.

I present to you, the Republican version of "transparency". Courtesy of the state of Arizona.

Just what the American people want!

Rep. Comer vows to probe Hunter Biden’s art sales, dealer’s China connections: 'It is deeply concerning' | Fox News

I'm so glad he was voted in as president. This matters.

There’s some awful police brutality video about to come out so it could be a helluva weekend.

Yes that Memphis police murdering the innocent citizen is horrific. There isn’t even evidence of the supposed reckless driving now. They fired the fire cops with 20 days of the incident and they are all now arrested. I wonder if they would have been fired or arrested this fast if they had been white?

The race thing is interesting to me because there is undeniably an element of racism throughout law enforcement - even when it doesn't rise to the level of brutality - but there's also an overriding element of abuse of power. This is a perfect example. If even one of these guys had been white, it would have been re-framed as a racial incident, even if limited to that one cop's motivation. But sometimes, people in power abuse their power, and race really doesn't matter.

The police chief in Memphis used to be over the "Reddog" unit in Atlanta. That was an "anti-gang" unit that would go into housing projects with batons out and forcibly search anyone they could catch. They were notorious for their "violence first" approach.
She had instituted the same kind of unit in Memphis, and this was one of those groups. So, really no surprise.

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I don't. I'm pretty sure of the answer.