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Edward64 10-22-2017 08:52 AM

I do think Obama did the right thing at that time to bring back a deserter. If anything, its for the serving troops to know that we will go at great lengths to bring them back.

In retrospect, he's an ungrateful deserter, what an ass.

Deserter Bergdahl says Taliban more 'honest' than US Army | Fox News
Quote:

Bowe Bergdahl, the U.S. Army sergeant who pleaded guilty Monday to deserting his post in Afghanistan in 2009, says his Taliban captors were more “honest” with him than the Army has been since his release three years ago.

“At least the Taliban were honest enough to say, ‘I’m the guy who’s gonna cut your throat,’ ” Bergdahl tells British TV journalist Sean Langan in an interview with the Sunday Times Magazine of London headlined "The Homecoming from Hell."

Langan, too, is a former Taliban hostage.

Bergdahl, 31, from Hailey, Idaho, says he never quite knew where he stood with the Army as he performed “administrative duties” while awaiting his desertion trial.

“Here, it could be the guy I pass in the corridor who’s going to sign the paper that sends me away for life,’’ he says. “We may as well go back to kangaroo courts and lynch mobs.”

Thomkal 10-22-2017 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3180636)
WHO is even more incompetent than Trump. That wasn't a question.

Robert Mugabe's WHO appointment condemned as 'an insult' - BBC News


Or not:

WHO cancels Robert Mugabe goodwill ambassador role - BBC News

NobodyHere 10-22-2017 12:28 PM

Costello: You know the organizations' names?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: Well, then who appointed Mugabe?

Abbott: Yes.

Costello: I mean the organization's name that appointed Mugabe.

Abbott: WHO.

Costello: The organization appointing failed dictators.

Abbott: WHO.

Costello: The organization appointing Mugabe.

Abbott: WHO did that.

Costello: Well, what are you askin' me for?

Abbott: I'm not asking you--I'm telling you. WHO made the appointment.

Costello: I'm asking you--who made the appointment?

Abbott: That's the organization's name.

Costello: That's who's name?

Abbott: Yes.

Thomkal 10-22-2017 01:38 PM

heh. Just can't fathom how they would even consider him really

Edward64 10-22-2017 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3180723)
heh. Just can't fathom how they would even consider him really


Bribery or tit-for-tat.

AENeuman 10-23-2017 01:46 PM

Bill's Times interview reminded me so much of 2005 Barry Bonds:

"I'm just tired, guys, really tired," Bonds said. "You wanted me to jump off the bridge -- I finally have jumped . . . You've finally done it, all of you. So now go pick a different person. I'm done."

"Me and my son are going to try to enjoy each other," he said, motioning to 15-year-old Nikolai sitting next to him. "That's all we've got. Everybody else has tried to destroy everything else that's supposedly positive or good."

Thomkal 10-23-2017 04:07 PM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ion/789962001/

And perhaps related:http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/23/politi...sts/index.html

JPhillips 10-23-2017 04:14 PM

30 man security detail.

Talk about yer snowflakes.

cuervo72 10-23-2017 05:28 PM

State Department Reportedly Revokes Visa Of Magnitsky Act Campaigner : The Two-Way : NPR

JPhillips 10-23-2017 08:06 PM


Doing the dirty work for Putin is absolutely shameful.

NobodyHere 10-23-2017 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3180878)
Doing the dirty work for Putin is absolutely shameful.


If only conservatives had shame

PilotMan 10-24-2017 07:22 AM

How has Trump fucked up, what at the very least, is a complete misunderstanding? This should be the easiest thing possible. All he needed to do was call back and make it right, and instead he just does his thing, and once again, attacks the family. Makes no sense.

Groundhog 10-24-2017 07:31 AM

Who's got time for repeat phone calls, with all those golfing commitments and late night tweeting time.

PilotMan 10-24-2017 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer (Post 3180366)
I'm curious, what can someone do then?

We tell people to get active, and try to make a difference, yet this guy, because he works for Trump and is trying to make a difference, you lose respect for him?


Working to make a difference only works if the guy you're working for understands the manner in which you are trying to affect change. If you cannot work with, or for that person, or that person is actively working against you, you're not serving the country by supporting him. You should be working against him, in a manner that forces him to see the error of his ways. If not, are you doing the best for the country?

I still can't understand how a president can get away with the things that he has said against the military and military families of those killed in action, and they can still support him. My dad being a perfect example. How can a guy, who was shot down and in Hanoi, be supportive after his comments about McCain? No fucking clue. I can't have respect for that decision and it completely exposes the hypocrisy of everything they say they stood for. My relationship with my dad has greatly suffered as a result. It was the straw the broke the back of a relationship that had been deteriorating over the last 5 years.

JPhillips 10-24-2017 08:17 AM

So a contractor with two employees, based in the hometown of the Interior Sec. got a several hundred million dollar contract to help rebuild the power grid in Puerto Rico.

I'm so old I remember when things like this would have been a scandal.

Atocep 10-24-2017 11:51 AM

Corker seems to have really gotten to Trump.

AlexB 10-24-2017 03:31 PM

Attacks from Corker, Flake... I don’t know how influential (or not) these guys are.

Is the beginning of the long awaited end for Trump, the beginnings of a Republican revolt, or just two insignificant politicians trying to raise their profile for life after politics?

QuikSand 10-24-2017 03:32 PM

B

NobodyHere 10-24-2017 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand (Post 3180957)
B


Yup, Trump will claim victory and cite this as proof that he is draining the swamp.

JPhillips 10-24-2017 04:47 PM

I still don't think the fuck all these Republicans strategy is going to work well.

BYU 14 10-24-2017 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3180966)
I still don't think the fuck all these Republicans strategy is going to work well.


Flakes resignation really opens the door Kyrsten Sinema who has gained a strong base in her time in the house and should defeat Kelli 'Bannon's Babe' Ward fairly easily if both emerge the winners in their respective primaries.

bronconick 10-24-2017 11:13 PM

Pence breaks a 50-50 tie to kill the rights of consumers to file lawsuits against banks or credit card companies.

RainMaker 10-24-2017 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3181014)
Pence breaks a 50-50 tie to kill the rights of consumers to file lawsuits against banks or credit card companies.


I'm sure it'll trickle down to us consumers!

larrymcg421 10-25-2017 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick (Post 3181014)
Pence breaks a 50-50 tie to kill the rights of consumers to file lawsuits against banks or credit card companies.


No doubt aimed at helping those working class whites in the Rust Belt.

JPhillips 10-25-2017 02:28 PM

Quote:

Trump says he did not authorize the mission in Niger that resulted in loss of 4 soldiers. generals did

What an asshole.

Thomkal 10-25-2017 02:42 PM

But I thought he knew better than all the generals?

Autumn 10-25-2017 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3180918)
So a contractor with two employees, based in the hometown of the Interior Sec. got a several hundred million dollar contract to help rebuild the power grid in Puerto Rico.

I'm so old I remember when things like this would have been a scandal.


This is the sort of thing that really upsets me, in that it seems so terribly blatant, like people have just realized no one's going to be able to do shit about things like this and we're just going to accept this slow slide into a third world governing style.

kingfc22 10-25-2017 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181067)
What an asshole.


Instead of grandstanding and bold face lying, he's going with the head in the sand technique.

RainMaker 10-25-2017 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3180918)
So a contractor with two employees, based in the hometown of the Interior Sec. got a several hundred million dollar contract to help rebuild the power grid in Puerto Rico.

I'm so old I remember when things like this would have been a scandal.


I think this is draining the swamp. Right?

With business booming under Trump, private prison giant’s leaders gathered at president’s resort - The Washington Post

BBT 10-25-2017 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3181076)
Instead of grandstanding and bold face lying, he's going with the head in the sand technique.


Which means he’s admitting to not doing his job

CarterNMA 10-25-2017 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181067)
What an asshole.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomkal (Post 3181070)
But I thought he knew better than all the generals?


Quote:

Originally Posted by kingfc22 (Post 3181076)
Instead of grandstanding and bold face lying, he's going with the head in the sand technique.


Quote:

Originally Posted by BBT (Post 3181095)
Which means he’s admitting to not doing his job


Hey guys, I can't stand the buffoon any more than the rest of youz but you're way off base on this one. No President is asked to approve every operation (little o) by the military. He was right in saying that the generals did. Could you imagine the waste of time if every single ODA activity had to be sanctioned from the top?

PilotMan 10-25-2017 09:33 PM

What better?

"I have faith in my Generals to execute their plans to the best of their abilities. I am briefed and aware of where our men are, but they call the shots and are more than capable and qualified to do so."

or

"I'm not responsible for this loss of life or what happened, the generals are."

Thomkal 10-25-2017 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarterNMA (Post 3181102)
Hey guys, I can't stand the buffoon any more than the rest of youz but you're way off base on this one. No President is asked to approve every operation (little o) by the military. He was right in saying that the generals did. Could you imagine the waste of time if every single ODA activity had to be sanctioned from the top?


Carter, I don't disagree with you, but along with President, he's the Commander in Chief. Even if this plan was not his, he's the one who should be taking ultimate responsibility for it.

BBT 10-25-2017 09:44 PM

So, is he calling for an investigation? Or is he just throwing his generals under the bus because he’s taking heat? Why is the White House being so secretive with the details if he didn’t do anything wrong?

He’s the president, he’s supposed to serve the public and he’s also the leader of the military. He’s not doing his job.

RainMaker 10-25-2017 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarterNMA (Post 3181102)
Hey guys, I can't stand the buffoon any more than the rest of youz but you're way off base on this one. No President is asked to approve every operation (little o) by the military. He was right in saying that the generals did. Could you imagine the waste of time if every single ODA activity had to be sanctioned from the top?


I agree but leaders also take responsibility for the actions of the people who work under them.

JPhillips 10-25-2017 09:52 PM

Yeah, the asshole part is the implied, not my fault!

Groundhog 10-25-2017 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3181111)
I agree but leaders also take responsibility for the actions of the people who work under them.


Yep, translate a situation like this to whatever organisation you work for and imagine your CEO making a comment like that. I think that puts it in perspective...

BBT 10-26-2017 11:06 AM



CrescentMoonie 10-26-2017 11:12 AM

I think everyone with a functioning brain, regardless of their political alignment, is aware of this already, but it's still amazing the stark difference between Trump and his predecessors on every level. We're legitimately seeing the difference between readers and a reality TV star and avid TV watcher.

https://extranewsfeed.com/the-incuri...p-3de33025908b

BYU 14 10-26-2017 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBT (Post 3181185)



Boosted in Arizona?? LOL, not when Kyrsten Sinema wins Flake's seat :)

jeff061 10-26-2017 12:23 PM

What's with with everyone just now talking about how Hilary and DNC funded the infamous Trump dossier? Didn't we know they hired the ex-spy that put that together almost immediately after it was leaked before the inauguration?

Or am I just confusing that with my personal assumption. Everyone in politics hires people to dig up dirt. I don't think that the author of that dossier was instructed to create a file about pissing on hookers, he was paid to dig stuff up. I don't believe they leaked it before the election, which lead to me they didn't consider it valid or use-able.

digamma 10-26-2017 12:41 PM

It was reported "Democrats" paid for it, but not necessarily which "Democrats."

RainMaker 10-26-2017 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff061 (Post 3181199)
What's with with everyone just now talking about how Hilary and DNC funded the infamous Trump dossier? Didn't we know they hired the ex-spy that put that together almost immediately after it was leaked before the inauguration?

Or am I just confusing that with my personal assumption. Everyone in politics hires people to dig up dirt. I don't think that the author of that dossier was instructed to create a file about pissing on hookers, he was paid to dig stuff up. I don't believe they leaked it before the election, which lead to me they didn't consider it valid or use-able.


Opposition hires company to do opposition research. What a crazy concept.

All I can think of at this point is it's another way to keep Hillary around as their boogeyman. They control the Presidency and Congress. They control the justice department and everything else. Tough to make excuses for not getting things done. So they'll drag out people like Hillary and claim she's the "shadow President". I think the excuse earlier in the year was a "deep state" trying to undermine Trump.

AlexB 10-26-2017 04:30 PM

That’s the whole Presidency so far - distraction from their own incompetence, lies and ineffectiveness.

Sometimes the distraction is a foreign leader, sometimes a foreign country, a natural disaster, sometimes it’s HRC, sometimes McCain, sometimes it’s Trump’s aides, sometimes it’s even Trump himself showing himself to be a dolt just to cover something even worse.

I’ve developed a begrudging respect for the brazenness of repating the same tactic again and again, and not really being called on it by any group that has any influence itself.

NobodyHere 10-26-2017 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexB (Post 3181233)
That’s the whole Presidency so far - distraction from their own incompetence, lies and ineffectiveness.

Sometimes the distraction is a foreign leader, sometimes a foreign country, a natural disaster, sometimes it’s HRC, sometimes McCain, sometimes it’s Trump’s aides, sometimes it’s even Trump himself showing himself to be a dolt just to cover something even worse.

I’ve developed a begrudging respect for the brazenness of repating the same tactic again and again, and not really being called on it by any group that has any influence itself.


I know it's been called out several times on this board yet we still mostly fall for it. The media will fall for it every single time and his lemming followers will lap it up every single...OMG TRUMP JUST INSULTED SOMEONE ON TWITTER. LET'S SPEND DAYS TALKING ABOUT IT.

molson 10-26-2017 06:01 PM

From New York magazine in 1992.



I'm a smidgen suspicious this was written by "Carolin Gallego"

kingfc22 10-26-2017 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3181245)
I'm a smidgen suspicious this was written by "Carolin Gallego"



Yea. No chance. LOL

I'm not a certified psychologist, but he has to be one of the easiest individuals to profile.

JPhillips 10-26-2017 07:21 PM

Looks like we're back to Just Say No.

But this time the crisis is largely sparked by legitimate prescriptions that then spiral out of control.

kingfc22 10-26-2017 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181255)
Looks like we're back to Just Say No.

But this time the crisis is largely sparked by legitimate prescriptions that then spiral out of control.


No it’s the Mexican heroin. Build that wall!

JPhillips 10-27-2017 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3180918)
So a contractor with two employees, based in the hometown of the Interior Sec. got a several hundred million dollar contract to help rebuild the power grid in Puerto Rico.

I'm so old I remember when things like this would have been a scandal.


The contract got leaked, and here are some of the details:

Over 400$ per diem per employee.

The Puerto Rican government agrees to waive any claims related to "delayed completion of the work."

Whitefish is not subject to audit from any government entity related to how much they charge or how much they spend.

Atocep 10-27-2017 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181304)
The contract got leaked, and here are some of the details:

Over 400$ per diem per employee.

The Puerto Rican government agrees to waive any claims related to "delayed completion of the work."

Whitefish is not subject to audit from any government entity related to how much they charge or how much they spend.


Can we refill the swamp?

Thomkal 10-27-2017 09:02 AM

So anyone hazard a guess as to the content of the JFK files after promising all week, Trump decided he couldn't release at the last second?

Thomkal 10-27-2017 09:44 AM

So I saw this commercial yesterday I think on CNN, by some guy I never heard of calling for Trump's impeachment. Trump has certainly heard of him and wasted no time in getting out a bullying tweet about it:

Trump slams 'unhinged' billionaire Steyer after impeachment ad | Fox News

miami_fan 10-27-2017 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181304)
The contract got leaked, and here are some of the details:

Over 400$ per diem per employee.

The Puerto Rican government agrees to waive any claims related to "delayed completion of the work."

Whitefish is not subject to audit from any government entity related to how much they charge or how much they spend.


Andy Techmanski (Whitefish founder) for President!

That man knows the art of a deal.

JPhillips 10-27-2017 12:54 PM

Orrin Hatch is retiring.

That has to be Romeny's if he wants it.

ISiddiqui 10-27-2017 12:59 PM

Apparently Romney has privately told people that he will run for that Senate seat if Hatch does resign (which isn't official yet, but seems to what Hatch has been telling folks). Trump has gotta just loooove this ;).

BYU 14 10-27-2017 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui (Post 3181348)
Apparently Romney has privately told people that he will run for that Senate seat if Hatch does resign (which isn't official yet, but seems to what Hatch has been telling folks). Trump has gotta just loooove this ;).


LOL, he's gonna need a cabinet position to manage his twitter attacks shortly.

JPhillips 10-27-2017 01:42 PM

Quote:

In an interview with New York Magazine, Grimm mentioned meeting Trump at his Trump Tower office and recalled being awestruck by the President’s hands and physical size in general.

“I remember saying to myself, I never realized what a large man — I mean stature-wise, he’s a big man, with massive hands,” Grimm said. He then outstretched his own hands in demonstration as he explained, “I don’t have small hands, but when I shook hands with him, the first time I shook hands with him, I realized he was a big man.”

The former congressman emphatically claimed that he was being completely honest. “I thought he had a big, strong grip. I’m dead serious,” he insisted.

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

BYU 14 10-27-2017 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181351)
What the fuck is wrong with these people?


Talk about an in depth interview, SMH.

mckerney 10-27-2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

“People say we have the best relationship of any president-president, because he’s called president also,” he went on to say. “Now some people might call him the king of China. But he’s called president.”

The best words.

RainMaker 10-27-2017 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181351)
What the fuck is wrong with these people?


It sounds like Grimm wants to fuck him.

RainMaker 10-27-2017 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips (Post 3181304)
The contract got leaked, and here are some of the details:

Over 400$ per diem per employee.

The Puerto Rican government agrees to waive any claims related to "delayed completion of the work."

Whitefish is not subject to audit from any government entity related to how much they charge or how much they spend.


That is one hell of a per diem. Not sure I could find a way to spend that in PR if I tried.

NobodyHere 10-27-2017 08:01 PM

Get the popcorn ready!

Exclusive: First charges filed in Mueller investigation

molson 10-27-2017 08:17 PM

I see everyone's odds of being charged in 2017 have gone up on PredictIt. None more than Manafort though. It was 26 cents for a Yes yesterday and now it's 73.

Thomkal 10-27-2017 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3181382)


wow have to say I'm a little surprised they came this early.

molson 10-27-2017 08:41 PM

I could see smaller fish now, perhaps those with slam dunk cases who may be ready to provide new evidence in exchange for leniency, and then big fish later.

Thomkal 10-27-2017 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3181390)
I could see smaller fish now, perhaps those with slam dunk cases who may be ready to provide new evidence in exchange for leniency, and then big fish later.


I think that's the way it's going to happen too. Kinda will be a bummer if no "big names" are ever charged with something. Facebook commenters meanwhile run the gamut from Obama and Hillary to the whole Trump administration and Trump himself. Get a grip people, geez.

Atocep 10-28-2017 03:02 PM

Should be interesting. It sounds like multiple people are getting hit in the first wave and you can tell the GOP is getting nervous by the attacks on Mueller since the news broke. The same guy Fox news was praising when he was named special investigator.

NobodyHere 10-28-2017 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3181386)
I see everyone's odds of being charged in 2017 have gone up on PredictIt. None more than Manafort though. It was 26 cents for a Yes yesterday and now it's 73.


My (figurative) money is on Manafort, if only because of that no-knock raid that happened to his house a while back.

SirFozzie 10-28-2017 08:47 PM

And they told him that it was pretty much a guarantee he was going to be indicted.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...-an-indictment

BBT 10-29-2017 01:52 PM

http://apne.ws/0lHQQB2

Quote:

Puerto Rico’s governor on Sunday demanded that the board of the island’s power company cancel the $300M contract with Whitefish Energy Holdings amid increased scrutiny of the Montana company’s role in Hurricane Maria recovery efforts.

The announcement by Gov. Ricardo Rossello comes as federal legislators seek to investigate the contract awarded to the small company from Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke’s hometown.

stevew 10-29-2017 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3181370)
That is one hell of a per diem. Not sure I could find a way to spend that in PR if I tried.


Come on man. There are very easy ways to spend that much money on an island full of beautiful women

PilotMan 10-29-2017 10:49 PM

Lol

hxxps://splinternews.com/shockingly-trump-s-attack-on-michael-moore-backfires-1819951259

bbgunn 10-29-2017 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NobodyHere (Post 3181238)
I know it's been called out several times on this board yet we still mostly fall for it. The media will fall for it every single time and his lemming followers will lap it up every single...OMG TRUMP JUST INSULTED SOMEONE ON TWITTER. LET'S SPEND DAYS TALKING ABOUT IT.

Personally, I've come to believe that all major news outlets are in cahoots with Trump's peeps: FOX, MSNBC, CNN... all of them. The so-called "liberal" news media will go bananas on something like Kellyanne Conway sitting with her legs on a couch, "covfefe", Trump calling NFL players "sons of bitches," etc., and the so-called "conservative" media will talk about how the "MSM" is attacking Trump, and so f-ing forth... all the while distracting people from the real issues. (I've also fallen for it many times, I'll admit.)

If you think about it, the owner of every major network is a huge corporation that has a lot to gain from Republican policies and having Trump in the White House. So they get together and figure out how to use their networks to divide the American people. "OK, you take care of the left, we'll take care of the right, and we'll pit them against each other. And while they're not looking, we'll pass some sweet legislation. Ah, the power of the media."

AENeuman 10-30-2017 12:14 AM

I think 99% is click bait. I’m positive more people clicked on Conway sitting on the couch than the Pairs climate accord passing. We are given mostly newsy stuff because each of these networks have created a business model around it. It’s obvious trump gets clicks, no matter what he does. I imagine each network knows exactly how much they make on each type of trump story they run.

I remember ted kobbel saying this about oj and nightline - they tried to do other things, but no cared and whenever they did anything oj ratings jumped.

What would be interesting is what would the news be like this year if every site was subscription based, not click based.

Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 07:19 AM

Manafort to turn himself in to Mueller, source says - CNNPolitics

Logan 10-30-2017 07:25 AM



Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 08:15 AM



molson 10-30-2017 08:21 AM

The news media never likes to link to the actual charging documents (or applicable statute, or appellate opinion, etc) for whatever reason, so here it is.

(The link title hasn't changed yet from "Access Denied", but it's been unsealed and it can be accessed via the DOJ site through that link).

Access Denied

1 count of Conspiracy Against the United States
1 count of Conspiracy to Launder Money
7 counts of Failure to File Reports of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts
1 count of being an Unregistered Agent of a Foreign Principal
1 count of False or Misleading FARA Statements
1 count of False Statements in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United State

Edit: The conspiracy stuff sounds the worst, but that first charge only means he's charged with conspiring with someone else to commit any federal crime. If you conspire with one or more other people to dump trash in a national park, for example, you could be charged with both the dumping, and with a separate crime for "Conspiracy Against the United States". In this case, the charge 1 is tied with the later charges, but counts as an extra charge with a five year maximum because of the conspiracy. The most serious charge here, based only on maximum sentence, is the conspiracy to launder money charge, which has a 20 year max. The other charges have 5 or 10 year maxes.

albionmoonlight 10-30-2017 08:24 AM

Smart move by Mueller. This first indictment is (1) not against any of the MAGA core players (Trump, Trump family members, Bannon, etc.), (2) not casting doubt on the election outcome, and (3) for financial crimes that it's hard for anyone to defend. Pretty much just taking money you shouldn't and failing to report it or pay taxes on it.

That makes it really hard for the GOP to attack it. Which starts to set an expectation that Muller's indictments will be respected.

If he had come out of the gates with indicting Don Jr. for colluding with Russia to swing the election, you would have had a ton of pushback right from the beginning.

If Mueller has more politically explosive moves to come, this was a great way to start to lay the groundwork to get those out eventually.

[Obvious caveat. I have no idea what people did and did not do. The post above assumes Trump team collusion with hostile foreign powers. It could be that Muller investigates and some financial self-dealing by non-core folks is the most he finds.]

albionmoonlight 10-30-2017 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson (Post 3181626)
The news media never likes to link to the actual charging documents (or applicable statute, or appellate opinion, etc) for whatever reason, so here it is.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1007271/download


Thanks. Pisses me off that they never do that. Putting a link at the bottom of the story in 2017 is costless.

BBT 10-30-2017 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight (Post 3181627)
Smart move by Mueller. This first indictment is (1) not against any of the MAGA core players (Trump, Trump family members, Bannon, etc.), (2) not casting doubt on the election outcome, and (3) for financial crimes that it's hard for anyone to defend. Pretty much just taking money you shouldn't and failing to report it or pay taxes on it.


Those "Conspiracy against the United States" and Unregistered Agent of a Foreign Principal" charges aren't just financial related.

Manafort seems to be the one garnering most of the attention from the press, but Rick Gates is probably the more interesting of the two. Gates was a partner of Manafort, worked with the Trump campaign throughout, and was on the Inauguration committee before joining a Trump PAC afterwards. He quit in March due to scrutiny he was getting internally for his ties to Manafort, but has been regularly seen at the White House as he now works for Trump mega-booster, Tom Barrack.

JPhillips 10-30-2017 09:08 AM

The phrase conspired, "together with others," seems likely to get a lot of attention.

Thomkal 10-30-2017 09:11 AM

Looks like they went after Manafort and Gates now because the statute of limitations runs out tomorrow with the tax charges apparently. Nothing mentioned about the Trump campaign in these charges as well.

...pardons in 5.4.3.2...
...fires Mueller in 5.4.3.2...

RainMaker 10-30-2017 09:28 AM

Manafort didn't seem to cover his tracks well. Reading through the indictment they found a bunch of old e-mails and documents in the no-knock warrant that he claimed didn't exist. He laundered money through an antique rug store and some clothing stores.

Even got AirBNB ins't the mix. Never really thought of it before but I wonder how often things like AirBNB get used to launder money.

Anyways, the people aligned with this guy care about kneeling during the anthem a lot because it's unpatriotic.

Logan 10-30-2017 09:35 AM



Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 09:37 AM

"But her emails"

"Lock her up"



RainMaker 10-30-2017 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 3181645)



This is worse news for Trump than the Manafort thing. This means Papadopolous is cooperating with the feds.

albionmoonlight 10-30-2017 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3181648)
This is worse news for Trump than the Manafort thing. This means Papadopolous is cooperating with the feds.


Yup. Muller gets everyone to look at Manafort (bright, shiny!).

Meanwhile, this is passing under the radar, even as it is likely to have much more impact long-term.

Logan 10-30-2017 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker (Post 3181648)
This is worse news for Trump than the Manafort thing. This means Papadopolous is cooperating with the feds.


"Following his arrest, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions."

For anyone who would like to see it spelled out.

Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 09:52 AM

I'm no lawyerin' type, but this sure looks like "collusion" to me:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...nt-Offense.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 3181653)
"Following his arrest, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions."

Any chance that "what did the President know and when did he know it?" would be among those questions...

Thomkal 10-30-2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3181647)
"But her emails"

"Lock her up"




You missed the tweet after that:

..Also, there is NO COLLUSION!


cuervo72 10-30-2017 09:57 AM

Webster's dad??

Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan (Post 3181653)
"Following his arrest, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met with the Government on numerous occasions to provide information and answer questions."

For anyone who would like to see it spelled out.

I missed the date on this initially. He was arrested in July. He has been cooperating for 3+ months and it's just coming out now.

Logan 10-30-2017 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou (Post 3181658)
I missed the date on this initially. He was arrested in July. He has been cooperating for 3+ months and it's just coming out now.



Logan 10-30-2017 10:32 AM

Next time just save us all some time and type out "we need to cover our asses"


Ben E Lou 10-30-2017 10:54 AM

So the interview in which Papadopolous lied to the FBI occurred during the day on January 27th.

That same evening, the President asked the FBI Director for a loyalty pledge.

Atocep 10-30-2017 11:36 AM

Popadopolous was a deep state plant. Manafort going down is all part of Trump getting Hilary locked up. (things you learn on the_Donald)

JPhillips 10-30-2017 11:50 AM

Am I willing to go to jail to protect Trump?

I bet a lot of people are asking themselves that question.

JPhillips 10-30-2017 12:31 PM

dola

There's a lot of speculation as to whether "proactively cooperate" means that Pap wore a wire.


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