How can he continuously say "he wants to raise taxes" when that's not true AND no one can know what is going to happen since neither one is in office. IMO it goes back to trusting that 'my' candidate means what he says while the other guys doesn't mean what he says even if it's as good if not better than what my guy said. If you cant believe the plan than what the hell are we talking about....we might as well just go vote today.

McCain is looking angry. Not confident, not presidential. Old and angry.

Ooh..more payola! Doubling child exemptions. Umm...McCain, what about single people?

Our first unscripted moment, where Obama asks to rebut what McCain said. Brokaw admonishes them to follow the rules set by both teams.

There is no right to record windfall profits. (yeah. I know, communist! Socialism! whatever)

*laughs* Man, McCain's showing his age.. "like trying to nail Jello to a wall"?

I thought that was funny. Does that make me old? :)

Obama takes the question about enititlement spending and works his way back to tax policy, so that he can answer McCain's last comment. Barry is learning how to fight back!

you know what though: old and angry mccain scores low with voters.

i said earlier tonight to my folks that i feel like mccain is very close to cracking in terms of his temper - and if he goes over the edge he's totally lost it.

mccain also walks around looking like a monkey with his arms very stiff and jerky

McCain thinks solving Social Security is easy...

Damnit. if it wasn't for the fact Doc Sak would call me on it, I'd post a giant picture of the ORLY owl, right about now :)

Bad news is - we lost :D

Uh, it is easy. Put it in a lockbox.

McCain is big on teh nukes! He has served on nuclear-powered ships and suffered no ill effects.

Obama is also down with teh nukes, but we also must have windmills.

Yeah, even when he's not speaking he's still holding the microphone in the same spot.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if he's got an arm brace holding his arm in that spot as he probably couldn't hold it on his own the whole hour and a half.

Yeah, that was a bad move.

I agree that it looks bad, but I wonder if that is in some way related to the injuries that he suffered as a POW.

But his eyes glow green in the dark :)

McCain: we must drill offshore now. Must drill now! Right after this debate is over!

fuck you mccain - you lying sack of shit

there is no drilling that can be done offshore that would result in any oil finding its way to our refineries within 10 years. we don't even have enough oil rigs to increase offshore drilling right now.

the only oil that we have on us soil that we can access within 10 years to decrease our dependence on foreign oil is in ANWR.

And that's from industry experts, not something i made up.

so talking about drilling as something that will ease oil prices tomorrow is flat-out lying to the public. and that pisses me off.

If there was a concrete plan on SSI so that I wouldn't be burdened too much in the future(I'm 26), I'd vote for that candidate. I would venture to guess that we're a ways a way before we get a plan that could really work for everyone.

McCain.. easy to fix it?

You got my vote!!

Not.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel :)

Holy crap. I thought you were just joking when you said that(I'm five minutes behind... DVR'd). I just realized that he ACTUALLY said that. LOL

Im surprised by tonight as I thought McCain's strong suit was townhall.

Hair transplants?

Gold plated health care plans. Ugh. Why is he repeating that Bush line?! It flopped then and it's flopping now.

Did he not see the red light? I did...

Was that a self-deprecating bald joke that McCain just tried to make?

Ok, no more bon mots from me. I think that the "Fixing Social Security is Easy" is a gaffe that could be up to the level of "The economy is strong", but we shall see.

Go Home Time!

"One last point I want to make....."

the drilling thing pisses me off. because the evidence is right there, and it's irrefutable.

WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH OIL RIGS IN ORDER TO INCREASE OFFSHORE DRILLING TO A DEGREE THAT WILL MATERIALLY AFFECT GAS PRICES IN LESS THAN 10 YEARS.

It's a concrete goddamn fact. The only thing we can do is drill in ANWR. It's non-negotiable.

So saying "we can drill tomorrow and your gas prices will go down" is BULLSHIT. It's straight-up lying, no doubt about it.

Pisses me off when either of them does it.

Obama: going with "Senator McCain" rather than "John." Smart move--it makes Obama look more presidential. (I'm serious.)

i think the woman line just broke on obama there on CNN.

Another joke bombed. McCain's no stand-up comic is he? :)

Ok, one more.

Wow. Very nice tie in by Obama.

Reminding folks that his mother died of cancer at 53, and spent her last days arguing with the insurance companies.

And whoever posted above that Obama is stressing the differences much more tonight is spot on--it's a striking change of strategy. Is Obama trying to finish McCain off tonight?

After he concludes his statement, McCain turns and glances at Obama with utter contempt and scorn.

The only part of the reaction line on CNN I find interesting is how much more negative men are than women on everything. Except when McCain says "America is #1!!"

As Balboa did to Drago.

I sometimes wonder what the women are on :)

Have you noticed they're also several seconds behind the men in returning to 50?

This debate is over....

Obama won this one

McCain won the first one, second one was a draw with Palin perhaps being a split decision winner based on expectations, and this has been an Obama knock out (thus far).

i might disagree on the first debate results (i thought AT worst it was a draw for Obama), but everything else I agree on.

McCain did not win the first debate.

Obama: stumbling a bit on Pakistan here--he is starting to get tired.

McCain: announcing his heroes at a furious clip: Reagan a minute ago, now Teddy Roosevelt.

This is going nowhere. (carry a big stick)

Can we get a count on the number of times that McCain has said Petraeus?

lol you noticed that too?

New rule in image politics - Town Hall debates can never ever be the strength of the candidate who will look old and uncomfortable with the added element of movement. Did no one in the McCain campaign consider this? Did no one on the campaign trail watch McCain move around and think "You know, he is going to look stiff and old next to Obama... Maybe we should stick to regular podiums..."

I agree--the debate is stuck right now.

I want to see McCain punch Obama so the right wing can call him a fighter and he can win the election. Plus it would be funny.

This thing is hilarious.

McCain: "Oh...bomb bomb bomb Iran was a joke with an old veteran friend"

--- eyeahhhh that ain't gonna fly. and now he's talking about how he is the responsible one? and yet he cracks jokes like that? that just doesn't compute

I'd like to see Palin walk across the stage screaming "GO MAVERICKS!"

McCain: another Petraeus reference.

:D

High five!

How does McCain propose that we "surge" in Afghanistan when our armed forces are stretched so thin already?

I will give McCain some props for that line, though: "I looked into Putin's eyes and I saw three letters. K.G.B."

I'm so sick of hearing this "Soothing" voice from McCain...

For once the men are happier than the women - with McCain talking about Russia.

The women are back on top ;)

Ohio men like it when McCain talks tough to them.

Obama stole McCain's chance at a good response to the follow-up Russia question there with his thoughtful response and left McCain going with a meek "maybe"

"Maybe" ftw!!

McCain knows how to fix SSI EASILY....

McCain can catch Osama, no problem....He just doesn't want to let anybody know until he's president....

What else did I miss?

oh yay...an israel question *barf*

Big miss by McCain there. Obama equivocated on the yes or no question, and all McCain had to do was give a direct answer. It would have scored major points. Instead, he said "maybe".

McCain going back to the "without preconditions obama would sit down with Iran" thing that Obama already defused and clarified to the seeming satisfaction of the focus group last debate

McCain milks the service record of his questioner for all that it is worth! Obama keeps his cool, though, and speaks directly to the same guy, just as McCain did.

"My friends, General Petraeus knows that I am a maverick."

"What I don't know is what the unexpected will be" :eek:

mccain tripping over his ending here

Now I get to watch each side's supporters proclaim victory.

I wonder what's on ESPNU.

means we'll see Joe Biden, but doubtless we won't see Sarah Palin

Did McCain just refuse to shake hands with Obama and make him shake politcal-barbie's hand instead?

what a fucking douche McCain. Tap the guy on the shoulder and then refuse to shake his hand?

I actually think McCain did better in this one than he did the first one.

naw, McCain patted obama on the back and just didnt see the hand IMO.

McCain really needs to STFU with the my friends stuff. It sounds stupid. It doesn't seem natural to him.

I think Obama wins the debate hands down. This pretty much sealed it for me. Obama all the way.

McCain is ok, but his VP is terribad and he really isn't dynamic enough.

We need a dynamic individual in office right now. Someone like Ronald Regan in the 80's.

It was another draw... that definitely doesn't help McCain any though.

Wel considering I thought McCain won the first one perhaps my dial is off.

Well since we did like to refer to the CNN focus group... this time it was 13 or 12 for Obama to 10 for McCain... very, very close.

Damn you! Damn you! If I can't get to post ORLY owls to Social Security is Easy to fix, no one should! :D

have those been regulated?

good point on the cnn post-debate wrap-up here about how Obama is still onstage shaking hands and talking with the people there in the room while McCain booked it out of there early

last time, I called the first debate a 10-10 round, filled with jabs and counter punching. Still mostly jabs and counter punching here, but I think Obama took this one in a narrow 10-9 round, close to 10-10. I wanted to deduct a point for the "fixing Social Security is easy" stupidity, but decided I wasn't going to go there.

might just be me but saying I'd never heard of Fannie and Freddie before recent times kinda ticked me off but I understand that that is right in my wheelhouse so it should be taken with a grain of salt.

nah...that's very true

god i love james carville

What these debates need, is when the candidates throwaway the time limits and the rules:

Wrap it Up! | Chappelle's Show | Comedy Central

You never heard of Fannie and Freddie? Aren't you in real estate?

I'm still unsure what to think about the "fixing Social Security is easy" line, for me the most memorable of the night from either candidate.

On one hand, I want to be a responsible citizen, to press for a real response, and to pin both guys down on a criminally under-reported issue that I actually care a lot about.

On the other hand, if I'm rooting for my candidate and want him to win the election, the pragmatist in me realizes that you simply can't say anything at all about SS without making people go batty. Raising taxes, reducing benefits, indexing, age limit increases, cutoff points -- the whole damned thing is high voltage stuff. So, I guess the McCain response, while far from being "straight talk," was probably ideal for what he wants -- to not turn off the voters by saying something objectionable.

For me, that sort of thinking becomes a really tough issue. I don't want to "settle" for the practical, safe, triangulated answer. But I'm smart enough to realize that anyone who speaks candidly enough to satisfy me (I'm a big boy, I can take my medicine if you explain to me why I need to) is going to alienate twenty other voters with the exact same candor. People like me don't get to determine elections - it's the other twenty people who do.

Kinda sucks. Easier to pick sides and just make fun of the other guy than it is to actually feel invested in some of the issues, and to constantly be frustrated that there's really nothing that happens on the campaign trail that bears directly on some of the issues that we know are lying in wait for the winner.

you misread flasch's post. he said that McCain saying that pissed him off because he does know about them.

i had to read it twice too, but that's what he was saying

CNN undecideds say Obama won 54-30. CBS undecideds say Obama won 39-27. On Fox, Frank Luntz lied about how many in his focus group supported McCain on the economy and Hume called him out. It is clear that Obama won.

Social Security really isn't the catastrophic disaster it's portrayed as being. Easy may not be the right word, but it can be stabilized without crushing the economy. Medicare, on the other hand is a guaranteed disaster.

yikes - david gergen just played the race card in saying obama may still be in trouble

Man, that was an invigorating, insightul debate!

Oh wait, no it wasn't.

What a rhetoric-filled waste of time. I declare nobody the winner (though at least Obama appears human and some-what genuine), and declare the two-party system and us poor suckas stuck under it as the losers.

thats my point...Ive heard about 'em....A LOT for many many years yet McCain kind of said I'd probably not heard of them so it ticked me off but im sure 'joe six pack' :) maybe hasnt...i dont really know.

sorry, clarity in posts is not one of my strong points.

Other stuff from that CNN Poll:

Opinion of Barack Obama
Before debate: 60% Positive / 38% Negative
After debate: 64% / 34%

Opinion of John McCain:
Before: 51% / 46%
After: 51% / 46%

Sure did. I don't think many will admit to it but I am sure there are some that have this same reservation (that race is still a major issue in our country). I would like to believe that it will not play a part but a part of me thinks that it will.

Ow. Drudge has a big picture with McCain in the foreground talking on the microphone, and Obama waiting for his turn to speak in the background.

Caption: BORING.

When Drudge can't summon the positives for ya.. that's bad.

HAHAHAH

DaddyTorgo (11:33:12 PM): anderson cooper just shit on the spin room
DaddyTorgo (11:33:39 PM): "we're not going there tonight, because it's just not worth it. if you wanna see it go to another network because it's just not worth it. all they do is spin. it's even in the name of the room."

He's right to a degree. He probably overestimates the Bradley Effect, I think 5% and above will be "safe" in the booth in all states. But the effect will come to fruition to some degree. Obama will lose votes. It isn't because the country is full of crazy racists. Its because when candidates are close to equal, people are more likely to vote for the person who's image they can most identify with. A young half Kenyan who grew up in Hawaii and overseas isn't that guy.

Carville brought up an interesting point as well, what happens if Obama has a 3%+ lead into the booth and loses it? What kind of clusterf* will we see nationwide when it looks like the leading candidate might have lost just because of his background, including race? It could get ugly....

Charlie may throw a chair through the window....